this is what is so remarkable about what they did. in 1998, on this program, remembering dr. king. here it is. a hero, he became a friend, a big brother. he was a warm command -- he was a warm man.

you need to protect your head. you have been hurt. i will never forget that. how are you doing? how are you feeling? is everything ok. he was a good listener and he was compassionate and a beautiful human being. >> it is so incredible to me what is in that clip. the first time i met john lewis was on the set of selma and i was stressed like dr. king. dr. king, it is so nice to see you again.

i think i met you in 1957, or was it 58? he just had this moment with me and i could see how much he missed his friend. >> as long as i am unable to exercise my constitutional right to vote, i cannot determine my own destiny what is determined for me. for those who would rather see me suffer than six seed. -- succeed. that means protests, that means disturb the peace, that means jail. that means risk. we will not wait any longer. give us the vote.

we are not asking, we are demanding. >> i think it was a director who said, it is a story about voice. >> it is about the people making their voice known. it is about a leader giving a voice to the voiceless. it is about humanity coming together to say enough is enough. that is what you see when dr. king asks for people who do not have a conscious -- conscience. help us tell the nation, help us tell the president this is not ok. there were people whose voices were trampled upon. all of these means by which people were kept away from being able to register to vote. they needed a voice. >> what is oprah winfrey's role in this? oprah was the change agent.

this seven-year journey was marked with so many disappointments, so many frustrations, a lot of them were to do with -- we do not have enough money. there was an undercurrent, is the world ready for black characters playing the protagonist? so many times in the past, we have seen these kinds of films told through white eyes and white characters. the script i initially read had lpga -- lbj as the driving force. there were lots of factors at play. she was the rocket fuel we needed. >> the role of the director?

x i had met ada -- >> i had met ava on a film we did. a beautiful film. i sat down next to a stranger on a plane who happened to be watching a show i did on his ipod. he turned to me and said, is this you? it is a loaded question. i said, let me read the script. i read the script on the way back from l.a.. i was blown away by the writing. the title of the script, her name and number all that was on their. -- on there. i want to be in this movie. we do the film together, she has a directorial voice like no one i have encountered. >> what is the voice?

>> she minds humanity from characters pretty much like no one else i have worked with. she is more interested in silences then she is words. she is interested in words, but there is something she does, something so brave about what she does off the line as well as on the line. true acting is reacting. i saw her get things out of me that i did not know were in there. what i could not afford to do is further accentuate what we already know. i felt -- the fact that in many ways, the friend, the kind person who is just not projecting christian love and duty, but who would take his hat

off for his friend, who would listen to john lewis in the car. this young man says to him, i once heard you from the saying fear not, we have come too far to turn back now. this young man to be the catalyst to keep going, that is not only a leader, that is true manhood. >> john lewis became a congressman. this is one more clip. >> dr. king, i want to help. tell me how. >> mr. president, i'm here to seek about the denial of a basic american right for the negro citizen. the right to vote. technically, we both know in the

south, black voters are kept off the rolls and out of the voting booths by systematic intimidation and fear. you asked how you can help. we want federal legislation granting negroes the right to vote. >> well, that is fine, but most of the south is still not desegregated. let's start -- let's not start another battle when we have not even one the first. this will have to wait. >> in the judgment of many african-americans i know, a good option of them, lyndon johnson played a positive role. he was in the power of the presidency. some of the people around king

have said that. at the end of the day, you cannot get away from the fact that he passed the civil rights act and the voting rights act. his legacy was dented by the vietnam war and everything that came after that. what sometimes people forget is -- this was a time in history when the power of the people was indisputable. to have a leader who could articulate what the needs are that is invaluable. that is something as we watch what is going on in the nation post ferguson, that is something i feel is missing. being able to articulate what we need and having the pressure of the people to force the agenda into actual change. this is a good time in your

life. >> look at me, i am here with you. >> i saw movie over the weekend in which you play a cop. you were in interstellar. what am i missing? >> if we say anymore, people will start to dislike me. >> do you feel -- chris rock said, if you are an african-american, didn't sell believes he has to do things -- didn't sell washington feels he has to do things different things. then tom hanks or tom cruise. it is payback for people to carry forward. the possibilities for

african-americans. >> one of the difficult things about being a black actor or black person in the public gaze is that everything you do has to endure a scrutiny that my white peers have to endure. when i open doors, that door is shutting unless there are more people coming through to blow the hinges off. the first african-american woman to be nominated for a golden globe, that is wonderful but the truth of the matter is if others do not come up behind her quite soon, she will be the one. i would say that sydney v.a. was the 1 -- sydney portier is the one.

>> there is no roadblocks. >> the same thing for having a black president. this phrase is racial america. it is absolutely not true. i worked out mathematically that i have to work twice as hard to get half as far as my white counterparts. i need to work four times as hard to be on them -- equal footing. i do think in order to do what i do, the harder you work, the better the results. the fact of the matter is that even when you look at ava it was being celebrated for what she has been able to do, she will not get the same opportunities if she were a white male.

i do not want to be one to complain about it, what this has shown me is that no one is going to tell my stories better than me. that has been beautifully demonstrated by ava being excellent at what she does. it was me to take her name. she should be given an opportunity. someone with oprah winfrey's power comes along. we have to do it for ourselves and we cannot rely it on the studios. find the audience, be excellent and you will be fined. -- you will be fine. >> everybody i know is raving about the film.

it is history and because you have a sense of being there and you feel the fear and you feel the hope and you feel all of those things that are part of the dynamic of change. back in a moment.

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>> patricia clarkson is here starring in the broadway revival of "the elephant man." the "new york observer" calls it one of her wittier performances. nice to have you here. >> i'm so happy to be here. >> i love "the elephant man," you are magnificent and so is bradley and the rest of the cast. before that, why has it taken you so long to come back to broadway? >> many reasons. i blame it on blanche dubois. blanche is so depleting, it is so soul-sucking and such a

massive undertaking that it left me in a different place. you never quite recover, anyone who has ever played blanche will tell you. i was left in a different place. i needed to take a break and it was doing all these films, -- i was doing all these films, fortunately, i am very thankful. i kind of got caught up in that and then the wonderful extraordinary rather cooper. --bradley cooper. i met him at a premier. it was a serendipitous moment and he said if and when i do "the elephant man," i want you to play mrs. kendall. i knew the part and i love the play and i love the part and i said ok, whatever. a year later i got a text from

bradley and said you, me williamstown, mrs. kendall. that was it. i decided it was the right time, it was the right project. he was the right person because i have great admiration for him and i knew of his profound love for this man, joseph merrick the great joseph merrick. he wooed me in a way that was just right. i felt it was right. what was i thinking? you know in the part, what was i thinking? i thought it would be a simpler path. >> you show a lot of yourself. >> i show a lot of myself and what was i thinking? it is also a journey i have never taken before as an actress.

it brought me to a new place. i am thankful for that. i am very thankful for that. >> who is ms. kendall? tell us about john merrick. >> john merrick is this man who was hideously deformed and had a difficult and treacherous life and was in the carnival. he was a circus freak. but he is taken in by, he has this, these grotesque deformities that were rather unprecedented, and this extraordinary doctor, dr. treaves in the play, it takes him in and he became a cause celebre. he was this brilliant, erudite

funny, charming, slightly feminine, a winning man. and a truly --people always equate mrs. kendall and john merrick as the beauty and the beast but the truth is he was, he is the beauty and the beast. he was a man with tremendous beauty. >> who is she? >> she is the celebrated actress of her time. ellen kerry-esque, these great 19th century actresses, i am thrilled to be playing one of. madge kendall was a famous actress at the time and that is an amalgam of madge kendall and this widow that befriended him. madge kendall never actually met john merrick.

he -- she just raised money for him but the first person, the first woman that ever took him in and shook his hand was this widow, this wealthy widow because he became friends with many wealthy people in his time. mrs. kendall, the playwright has merged these pivotal women in his life, his benefactor and the woman who spent time, so i played this wonderful famous actress of the time. >> john merrick sees a kindred spirit. >> we are definitely conducted -- kindred spirits. we have had rough roads in our different journeys and paths through life and i meet him at a very beautiful and specific time in my life and i think he saves me, i save him and even though we are playing an actress it is

such a minor part of the character in a way. because what is the focus for me and what is the heart and soul of mrs. kendall is, her relationship and her deep, profound love for john merrick. >> you also say kindness. >> kindness. she has, it is very moving to me. i rarely get to play such kind and lovely people. [laughter] >> how do you think casting directors see you? [laughter] >> i have done so much work now. now i think -- it is willing to play someone with such goodness and she is quite witty and effervescent and busy.

--pithy. she is not all warm and cozy but she does have -- many women who have come backstage to see me after the performance, you inspired me. >> you are aspiring to be what? >> just the level, it is a deep kindness, she is genuinely giving and genuinely present and genuinely open and available. >> open and available? >> we are going there. >> this is pbs. >> was it hard for you, how was

it hard to disrobe on stage. 300 people. >> it is 780. disrobing every night and a very deeply emotional place, i say this beautiful line to him which is the truth of the unveilings we have during the course of the evening and i say i am so happy, i am his confidant, and i say i am flattered and i say too little trust has maimed my life. i trust you. trust is an important thing. and i love him. i have such true, real feelings for him.

>> this is one more layer, that unpeeling. >> i find it deeply heartbreaking that he has never seen a woman naked or nude in front of him with an outpouring of affection and he has never had a moment to view someone that he loves naked in a chaste, sexual or chaste way and our relationship runs that fine line that it is a sexual and a chaste love affair mixed into one. the moment of the disrobing, it is hard to explain because i have done so much work as an actress at this point in my life and i have had so many deep and emotional moments in my work that -- incredible parts i have

been afforded, but there is something about this woman. that is difficult every night, and it has never gotten easy and i hope it never does. it is always a moment of sadness and loss and yet, i would not want to change a moment of it. i would not do anything differently. every night when i get to that moment, i have to be there, in the moment, and i do it for him, and that is what i'll always have to remember. it is for him. i am glad.

i don't want to make it out to be too precious but it is a big moment. i am not 25. that is also may be in its own way what is beautiful. i am not even 45. [laughter] again, what was i thinking? >> so the play itself and bradley, it is a great moment for him. he is a good friend of mine as you know. to see him right now, i have seen him do this, i know how long he has wanted to do this and he called me and said you have got to, up because i am going to do that. how long did you do it? >> for two weeks. and the artistic director said been doing and see how it is, i will give you the space. we did it in a small stage and ran it for two weeks but we had the time of our lives.

we knew something was right. and all of the feelings, all of this, it has been inside of bradley for some many years, this man enter -- and he reminds us that we are doing it to honor joseph merrick. there is a large photograph of him in his dressing room and we look at it, all of us, we do it to honor him. it is a stunning moment for bradley right now and i am thankful to be part of it. he is a dear friend, and he is someone, he is a consummate actor and professional. >> he is unbelievable, what clint eastwood has done with him. >> he came to see the play. clint eastwood backstage at a theater. [laughter] hello, clint.

>> he is about 85. >> he looks amazing. [laughter] you still look amazing. i did the last "dirty harry" with him. it is a thrilling moment for him and it is a moment that is earned and deserved and a moment, he is cut no corners and every single night, me, bradley, alessandro, this incredible supporting cast and we are led by him, the power and energy he has, we step out every night and give a performance that we hope is memorable, is indelible. that is what we hope to take everybody on a journey every single night. >> where are you in terms of this life you have chosen for yourself as an actress?

now you have a much admired portrayal on stage after 25 years, you get lots of movies, you work with the best rectors. --directors. >> i have wonderful directors, yes. is this what you always hoped it would be? >> be careful, you will end up naked on broadway. [laughter] >> or hang out with clint eastwood. >> i am thankful, and i am very satisfied with so much of where my life is at this point especially being an actress, because i am an actress and life is and things are difficult, more difficult for us create it is a given that we can bemoan -- >> you can be an exception.

>> there are many extraordinary actresses in their 50's, 60's, that are not but many are now who have much better careers than i. there are amazing, there is great work with the rise of independent cinema. it has given us a new place and a vital and exciting place in this business and it has -- we cannot be denied any longer. >> that is great. >> we cannot be denied. our films make money often at times, we win awards, we cannot be denied and people want to see films with women and their 50's and 60's. >> there is you and meryl and others.

>> there is some of the performances this year i women in their 40's and 50's that are extraordinary. i just think i have reached a place but it is still a struggle . that is what i always say to young actors. the greatest people in our business, they never arrive. the most successful people in our business are always striving. our art always leaves you slightly unsatisfied and that is the nature of it. it always leaves you with yearning and it is so subjective. that can take a toll on you. >> you always believe you can do it better next time. >> you always believe there is something else that is attainable. there is some other level to your art, to your craft that should be reached, that -- and as we age in this business, we

do get better, it is that simple. we do because it is a muscle. physiologically our muscles weaken but as an actor, that muscle gets stronger. we have seen so much. i walk on stage every night as mrs. kendall and i have lived this life in my own personal way. every night when i walk out there, i bring what i have lived in these 54 years is a lot. and i am thankful for that because every single night, i bring that to the stage, i bring it for bradley and for the cast and our extraordinary director scott ellis. i would not be able to play this part. i would not have it in me. i would not have the emotional life. i would not be -- i would not have the backbone and the

fragility which is what theater requires. >> backbone and fragility. >> it is a tough road you have to walk. >> have you consciously made sacrifices for that? >> some. i have walked away from certain jobs i thought would not be right for me that would compromise just what makes me happy. they were beautiful jobs but they just were not for me. they were not something that i would be -- something that would not excite me. it would not get me going. it would require great things. i would rather fail trying something that requires great things of me than doing something --

>> someone was here recently and said, i will only take a role that is so challenging i think i might fail. >> yes. now, those of us who are no longer really struggling actors, we are fortunate we have got to that place where we can make choices and a lot of actors do not have those choices for financial reasons or careerwise or whatever. i'm fortunate in that i have gotten to a place where i can make, they can choose, make decisions, i can be picky and i can say no. sometimes i will say yes to things, scott ellis though i was --never thought i would coming

back to the theater. he thought i would say i love you go -- i love you guys and i am not doing "the elephant man," and he goes, what do you mean? >> what have you sacrificed to have all this, anything? >> i sacrificed some financial gain. the places i could have gone. the apartments i could own now. i have sacrificed a few financial offers that were quite astonishing and flattering. >> you are married to aircraft. --your craft. >> yes, i am, in some ways, first and foremost probably. i am able to admit that now. i do not think that is a bad thing. i love acting. it is a love in my life. and i don't think i am ok with that, and if people judge me

harshly because of that, i cannot change to im -- who i am. i do love it, and sometimes a --i get overwhelmed and it is exhausting at times and enervating. i always hope that i rally. i always hope. >> do the roles get sexier? >> yes, thank god, thank you. [laughter] i have been afforded with some of the sexiest roles, what was i thinking ten years ago when -- years ago when we were about to do the play. we got delayed and i kept saying boys, let's go. gravity. [laughter] and they were like yeah.

no, let's go. we need to do the play now like this afternoon. [laughter] so, you know, but i have -- i did this crazy photo shoot with this amazing photographer and did these crazy sexy photos for "interview" and i was there with my publicist. i am in a unitard stretched out over a male model. i have to play this sexy part. the director of "cairo times" wrote another role, and it is a very sexy, emotional part.

the lead of the film. >> it does not get any better than this. >> i am so thankful that people keep disrobing me. [laughter] and yet, also, i am like, please objectify me. [laughter] i like that with all this fabulous sexiness comes these stunning parts so the emotional life and the depth and gravitas that exists or the weight in the --the wit or the humor are

matched equally and i am just a grateful for that because that is the journey we ultimately want as an actor. >> to certain directors get more out of you? >> they get something different. i think they get whatever i need to bring to that part and i hopefully have shifted in some i look different. >> what they see is what you have decided to bring to the part. >> it is hopefully what is required for that character, to fill the need and the ark of that character and it is always first and foremost an emotional journey for me when i am arriving at a character. it is rarely an intellectual. someone asked did you research and i said i actually know a lot about 19th-century actresses.

i was kind of obsessed about it when i was a young girl, these great actresses of the 19th century. i know about all of that. i have worn a corset, i know the period. it is the emotional life that will betray you if you do not find it and it will be your biggest downfall as an actor always. if you do not have, if it does not sit very low, if the character sits here, you have nowhere to go, and no director can help you, no actor can help you. no hair or makeup or wardrobe can help you if you have not figured out really how emotionally that character proceeds, and i am not talking about what they had for breakfast.

i am talking about where the emotional life of that character lies and so, when i have the opportunity to work with these incredible directors and i find it very moving that they continue to want to employ me, and i never take that for granted, never. i do my homework. i do the hard work. i hope. >> the best always do. thank you for coming. >> thank you, charlie. ♪

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