♪ >> from our studios in new york city, this is "charlie rose." >> chris rock plus new movie is called "top five." he wrote and directed it and also plays the lead character. the associated press writes, it defies categorization. it is a comedy, a satire, and also a look at an artist trying to figure out ones.

here is the trailer. >> what is up. this is andre allen. when i listen to satellite radio, i listen to -- >> just make it funnier. >> funnier? >> what's up. this is [audio deleted]. >> first take was good. >> in 2005, time magazine voted today's guest the funniest man in america. in 2010, he hit it big. you can also see him getting married to reality star erica long. >> do we have to do this on camera?

>> i don't feel like doing funny movies anymore. i don't feel funny. >> i just want a decent story. if you give me a couple of honest things, i will be more than fair. >> she is doing a story on me. >> i'm going to turn over like an apple pie. >> you just ate an apple pie. >> things are changing. you need to wake up. >> a black man, trying to get a cab in new york city. taxi. do you think the wedding is hurting me? >> you could be talking dancing with the stars here. >> these white people don't tell me -- >> why don't you skip those questions and go to something good? >> how come you're not funny anymore? >> i was not into the wedding. i should have been into the guy. you should be into the girl. >> my top five “scarface.” and then i might let biggie get

in there. >> they got the lock on them. >> i spoke to chris rock at “the comedy cellar.” here is what he is saying. for the first time coming you acted in it. you wrote it. you directed it. the first time he has made a movie as good as his stand up. does that resonate? >> that was the desired effect. there is a joke -- wherever woody allen walks by, they say

we love your movies, especially the early, funny ones. they say, i love your work. especially the stand up. i say, what about all the other things i do? i wanted to make a movie as good as the stand up. just saying that right now. next week, who knows? >> standup comedians are saying that. the audiences in toronto and other places. what do they mean? you were so good at standup. you crafted it. you had not done that in your movies before? you came to a place were you treated movies with the same reverence? >> it is not reverence. it is like, i have to treat movies, i have to not care so much.

not care what people think. not care about judgment. when you are doing movies, movies are amazing. i love them. they have testing. they test every line, every 10 minutes of the movie is tested. i have always been a horrible test-taker. when you are writing a movie you are editing your self committee were thinking about the test. oh, they are not going to like this. this is going to test low. they do not test plays. we test them in front of audiences. you don't test every line.

you don't test stand up. you test it in front of the audience but not the strict testing a movie has. this was the first movie where i did not care about offending people. i did not try to open a chain store. >> i want to make the movie i want to make. >> i want to have a little restaurant that is kind of hip. i'm not trying to make mcdonald's. i want to make a chris rock movie, not my version of an eddie murphy movie. >> you said an interesting thing. i want to make a chris rock movie. you would sit with adam sandler and you knew what he was doing. >> he was making an adam sandler movie. men always dress like, we get our fashion sense from whatever friend gets laid the most. whatever friends get laid the most, i will get those shoes. that haircut, i will get it. sandler is like my biggest movie star friend.

i will do what he is doing. [laughter] it didn't kind of fit me. it fits when i am in a movie with him, but it did not fit me to make a movie the same tone as him. or even an eddie murphy movie. that was not my tone. the important thing for this movie was, i found a tone that works for me. when i do stand up, seldom do i talk about anything that is funny. almost nothing in my act is funny. if you go topic to topic. >> that's what people say is your genius. you can talk about race like nobody else. >> i like to put the audience in a hole. say something controversial and then dig myself out comedically. that is what i did with the movie.

i play a guy that is an alcoholic, a cheat, a hack. unlikable. i take him on a journey and try to help you understand where this guy is coming from. >> a reporter comes along and makes him vulnerable. >> yes, makes him vulnerable. we are all vulnerable on some level. we are all insecure. >> you know why people are more accepting. this is rough for women. i am hopeful because people are changing. >> some things never change. look at this, a black man trying to get a cab. watch this. look at this. taxi, taxi. >> there is an idea that comedians want to be taken seriously. >> a lot of comedians want to be taken seriously. >> they don't think being funny is enough.

>> we are in america. america does not take comedians seriously. america treats comedians like third class entertainers. you have actors, singers comedians. comedians are the bottom. even though they do the hardest part of this. it is harder to be funny than it is to be dramatic. >> everybody has said it is hard for a great series actor to be funny than for a great comedic actor to be serious. >> absolutely. i saw "gone girl" the other day. it is amazing. if you took adam, who directed “anchorman,” and you let him direct "gone girl." then you took david fincher and had him direct "anchorman." adam can do "gone girl" and it is ok.

fincher cannot do "anchorman." [laughter] >> why does you want to make movies? >> like everybody else. you watch “dr. strangelove,” "annie hall." you want to take this comedic thing, like how far can you take it? i'm a comedian on stage. i wrote a funny book. i made a funny documentary. can i be funny on the biggest, hardest part of comedy? >> and you have. >> let's hope. i'm glad you like it. >> in the first five minutes. there is also this. the evolution you had in your own confidence.

so you were the great standup comedian you are. tell me what you thought when you some martin lawrence on stage in chicago. >> my good friend always says competition keeps you in condition. if there is no competition, you are screwed. i remember doing a show in chicago where martin lawrence was my opening act. it was like, i do not know was a week before martin mania was supposed to hit. normally i don't watch the opening act. i'm in the dressing room. i hear some commotion on the stage. i think there is a fight or something. i think my head out there.

people are laughing like bloody is coming up. martin lawrence killed so much. i had to follow him. i died a death. i have never died that hard in my life. since then, i have never gotten the whooping i got that night. i said, i have to rethink myself as a performer and writer. i just had to rethink everything. realize, there is a new era coming in. i credit martin for -- in a weird way. >> it was a transformative moment for you. >> totally transformative for me. i knew what i was doing was not going to last. i knew like, sometimes this thing happens. you come from a poor place.

realize, there is a new era coming in. i credit martin for -- in a weird way. >> it was a transformative moment for you. >> totally transformative for me. i knew what i was doing was not going to last. i knew like, sometimes this thing happens. you come from a poor place. you are making some money. you will get complacent. i am rich compared to where i am from. i'm poor compared to where i'm at. i was probably making $3000 a week, which was a ton of money considering where i am from. i got lazy. i stopped being curious about comedy. that is the worst thing that can happen to people in life. >> about anything, not just comedy.

>> not be curious. i got curious again. >> there is this about you. they say you do not revel in your success. you are constantly thinking about the next place you want to go. >> yeah. i remember when i was in saturday night live. some people treated it like it was the biggest thing in the world. we used to go, this is the biggest thing in the world. we are screwed. we have a lot of living to do. let's hope this is not the highlight of our life. [laughter] in a weird way, i probably would have succeeded more -- >> i never understood why you left after three years. >> they let me leave. it was a cultural thing. living color was on. snl was really white. like what my mother calls the real white people.

not those that drive buses. >> you wanted to go to living color. it is over in three months. >> it is over in three months, but i got there. the world was a little more segregated then. i felt like i was an outsider. i felt like i was not involved in anything black, honestly. i was on snl. i was not on that much. living color was on. the def comedy jam was going on. all the other black comedians had taken i used to make some much money in february. it was time for me to leave snl. something is going on that i am not a part of. richard pryor kind of went through the same thing. he was on ed sullivan, but the panthers were happening and soul train was happening.

he was like, i am richard pryor, i should be involved to -- >> he went to africa. >> he went to san francisco and reinvented himself. i had to reinvent myself. >> you seem to have always had the sense of connection to your blackness. you want them in the audience, african-americans to populate the audience because, what? >> when i do an hbo special, i kind of insist on a all-black audience. the reason i insist -- i have done probably two specials at the apollo. my last special was like in south africa. south africa and the apollo. because sometimes i do things that are critical of black culture.

critical of my people as a whole. when you do jokes like that, it is important to cut to a black face laughing to signal that this is not racist. black people can be racist against their own people, too. >> you did a whole nine minutes on that. >> we can be just as racist as anybody else. it is kind of to relax the audience. black people laugh better than white people. they are just better laughers. black people laugh with their feet. they are really into it -- it is the mouth, and the feet. white people kind of just laugh from their neck up. >> seinfeld says you can do race better than anybody else. you can put it in a way that people can to the truth of the race in america.

>> maybe. i am from that era. i was bused to school in 1973. we tend to think racism is older -- >> you were bused to a white irish catholic community. >> irish and italian kids. think of it this way. the robert f kennedy has been called that for 20 years. we still call it by its old name. when you pass a law, it takes a while before, even though it is illegal, it takes 20 years or 30 years to people really get acclimated. i got bused to school. i got called nigger. they would protest.

my first day of school, just in new york. in 1973. i know it. i have really known it. ♪ >> the moments that have been transformative, one of the martin lawrence thing. the others when you went to broadway. that was transformative. >> it really was. that was the most fun i have ever had in show business. >> why? >> it was fun being the rookie. i literally did not know anything. i had never done a play before.

i didn't do a play in high school. just that experience -- not just doing a play. doing an original play. you could almost rehearse for a revival in your house. but an original, it changes all the time. to work with a play from the bottom up. form a character. work with great actors. elizabeth rodriguez. yeah, it was just -- >> did you learn things you could add to the total sort of entertainer you are? >> i could be dramatic and funny at the same time. one was not -- one did not make the other one not exist. you'll have to be exclusive to comedy or exclusive to drama. these things can happen at the same time. without the play, the movie does not happen. >> without the play, the movie does not happen.

>> movie have presented is not good -- movie happens and it is not that good. the movie is silly. the thing that is good about the movie, comedy works. but the drama works. >> and the relationships. and the dialogue. when you are talking about contemporary culture -- >> you believe the relationship. you believe me, you believe cedric the entertainer is that guy. it is not a sketch. there are not a bunch of sketches. it is drama. >> you trying to pick me up?

>> welcome to houston. we are promoting your show. how was your flight, good? >> great. >> we are going to have big walk-up, dog. >> how far as the hotel? >> about 45 minutes. >> this is my town. anything you need coming you let a brother know. drink, surf. i'm the man in houston. i'm the man in houston, baby. >> scott rudin is the producer. what role did he play? did he give you the confidence to let you be what you wanted to be? >> key game in the confidence to

let me run at a speed i did not know i could do. i do not know i could do this. you know it's got rudin taught me? the best people in the world are a phone call away. i wish try to not get the best people in the world, no disrespect to other people i have worked with. i'm big about not bothering people. scott will bother anybody. he don't care. hey, i would have never called you. i wanted you in the movie. scott is like, so what? so what he does the cbs morning show? so what he has three jobs? he will want to do this. >> he was right. >> for no money.

[laughter] scott does not care. so what kevin hart has 20 jobs? let's get him here. >> let them say no. >> until they say no, we have a shot. we have the best actors in the world. we have the best dp in the world. >> tell me how scott rudin got inside your head. he said, i want to capture the spirit of you as a young comic in the movie. i want to see you in this movie as a star. >> he believed in me. as a leading man. i never believed in me as a leading man. a leading man has to have a certain level of sex appeal. i don't pick up myself as having sex appeal. >> oh, come on. >> i am married, dude. ego, down. a leading man has to lead. i don't imagine anybody following me. on my head, -- is pretty much it.

>> you can go in front of an audience. you know you can go in front of an audience with a carefully developed a carefully developed routine and entertain them so they are on their feet. >> yes. i am like -- did you ever see that cartoon, the warner bros. cartoon where the frog can sing? whenever he is not on stage, he goes ribbit? i am so much like that frog. >> that is the point of this movie. it has brought you to appreciate yourself beyond stand up. you have done not only what you wanted to do, but what other people wanted you to do. >> yes. >> tell me about writing it.

what you wanted to create. people have said is it about fame and celebrity. >> i have to go back a little bit. i have to give credit to louis ck. louis owes me because i told him, i'm not going to be your friend if i keep writing for people. he was writing things for dana carvey. pitching shows to sandler pass company. i said, no, you are the star. you are funny. you should have a show. stop pitching other people's shows. i'm going to sit on the charlie rose show and take all the credit for louis ck. >> you made him what he is today to request they wanted him to do stuff for other people. they were making money. everybody thought he should be working for other people.

i thought that guys a star. me and louis have a great friendship and i love the guy dearly. he comes to me, whatever, before i start writing it he says, you have to write it by yourself. he says, you have to write it by yourself. me and louis wrote a movie together. he says, no, you have to get in a room and feel hurt. lonely. feel the pain, the blood sweat and tears it takes to write by yourself. stare at a piece of paper and have no one to get out of this but you. you always write with people. you end up with a watered-down version of yourself. you have to write by yourself. he made me write by myself. i only did in standup. when you write with other people -- there were great scripts. >> you are in the room by yourself. >> something emotional happened. something spiritual comes out of yourself.

you are living in your head. you are really with your secret thoughts. you are not trying to get anybody's approval. it comes across in the movie. like, when i was doing standup i know a have an hour and a half. i know it is ok if i kiss you off now. i will get you down the line. you are mad. hang out, you will be fine. >> i am coming back.

>> normally when i did movies in the past, i was scared of pissing people off. >> you are editing your self. >> i was. there is no of that fear. >> did you want to create? who is andre allen? is it you? >> it is a little me, eddie murphy, chris tucker, martin lawrence. there is a journey. i remember seinfeld said to me years ago, they are going to give you the kit. inside the kit is a book deal and tv show. movie offers. you are going to host the oscars. he literally told me everything that was going to happen to meet in the kit. there are a lot of us that have a shared experience. i wanted a movie about black fame.

the famous as a black guy is a little different than being famous is a white guy. tom hanks is amazing. denzel washington is a god to his people. he has a responsibility to his people that tom cruise and liam neeson do not have. no one goes, hey, tom cruise. i don't even know what nationality he is. what is he? >> i don't know. >> he's white. don't forget your whiteness. come back and visit white people. what are you doing for white people, tom cruise? nobody says that to tom cruise. >> what did they say to denzel? >> they want to know that he is involved in his community and loves his people.

they feel denzel's highs and lows more. tom hanks does a bad movie there is going to be another good movie by somebody white next week. denzel does a bad movie, i will not see a good black movie for a year. >> did you feel that yourself when you are writing and making this movie? if this is not as good as it can be, i am letting down not just my friends but a whole bunch of people who identify with me because i am an african american man who made it. >> i just wanted to touch what that is, to walk that line. lebron is going to it right now. he's got this thing where he is responsible for the happiness of cleveland and the poor kids of cleveland. larry bird came up just as poor as lebron, but nobody is like, larry bird owes indiana. >> lebron's got cleveland on his back. >> he has this whole state -- a pressure that no white athlete i have ever seen has. >> what did chris rock have in terms of pressure? >> you have a pressure to project a certain amount of dignity at all times.

which is odd when you are a comedian. comedians have clout, too. sometimes the comedy is in being undignified. >> i just wanted to touch what that is, to walk that line. lebron is going to it right now. he's got this thing where he is responsible for the happiness of cleveland and the poor kids of cleveland. larry bird came up just as poor as lebron, but nobody is like, larry bird owes indiana. >> lebron's got cleveland on his back. >> he has this whole state -- a pressure that no white athlete i have ever seen has. >> what did chris rock have in terms of pressure? >> you have a pressure to project a certain amount of dignity at all times. which is odd when you are a comedian. comedians have clout, too. sometimes the comedy is in being undignified.

sometimes the comedy is having a pie in your face. just having it together all the time, vanity is kind of the enemy of comedy. i have heard jamie foxx say this. jim carrey does things no black comedian could ever get away with because black people lose their minds. i can't believe he is talking out of his asked. tyler perry gets a lot of flak for wearing a dress. but it is funny. tyler perry gets flack for things that milton barrel has done >>. >> put on a dress.

>> he has done some great work that some people ignore because he put on a dress. being funny is not always the most dignified. what am i trying to say? >> here's what they say about you as a standup. >> i love madea. >> they said, what was interesting about you. you were perfectly tailored, you would go on stage and you are within your own body. there was a kind of elegance. what was coming out of your mouth was the most, funniest and most satirical. you would go right to the edge of where you can go with comedy. but doing it in a guy who was

very dignified. is that true? >> the dignified thing, people dress me for the most part. dignity, that is my character. >> tummy where this movie brings you in terms of the future. you will soon be 50. >> yes, i will be 50. which means i am a. i'm actually old. the only time 50 is young is when you die at 50. or you are dating cher. [laughter] cher got another young boy. >> let her have her fun. >> i like cher. >> this movie is a success. >> i hope so. >> it is. we know anybody who cares about you has seen the movie and they know you have delivered what they believed you could deliver on. from my mouth to god's lips or whatever.

scott rudin want you to make another movie. within two or three years, because you have gone to a place she wanted to go to paris >> i want to make a movie with him. absolutely. warren beatty. that dinner was so long ago. he said, is only a success if it leads to another job. it is literally, do you make the people you work for happy? do they want to work with you again? do others want to work with you because of the work? i hope you like the movie. i hope the movie makes money. but, i have been in movies that have made hundreds of millions of dollars. that nobody has ever called me about working for. the movie made $300 million and

not one call. and movies that made nothing that i was get calls about. like two days in new york. people want to hire me in that all the time. or people who saw, "good hair." i am hoping i can combine the two. the critical acclaim of "good hair" any money of "madagascar 3." >> bill murray is the guy you want to hang out with, and drop his money. >> charlie chaplin? >> he started this thing. the grand master flash of ha ha. >> people say, i love breakfast at tiffany's. you have not read truman capote? >> eddie murphy?

>> richard pryor is the most honest. even jesus did not tell his audience everything. >> i want set eddie murphy and michael jackson within two months, and eddie murphy was better. >> that kind of broke my heart. >> let me talk about heroes. charlie chaplin. >> he blazed his own trail. he did exactly what he wanted to do. >> and he was funny. >> he was hysterical. he pretty much made what comedy

was in its time. when he is a hero. but she is more than a hero. he is who you want to be. >> in some aspects. [laughter] >> he is. >> that is what we all want. we all want a woody allen deal. we can cast anybody we want. re-shoots are in the budget. we have total autonomy. we also what to be that good. i am striving to be that good. keep pushing the envelope. when you represent black talent, if you're not making history, you are not doing anything. have to be, ok, what am i am not allowed to do? let's do that. let's make a movie that goes to toronto and is a hit that is also funny and dramatic.

>> we are going to have a woman president. she is going to be latina and she might even be gay. then we will have an asian president. then another handicapped president. >> we have already had one. >> i'm talking about an out of the closet and handicapped president. not everybody is as liberal as me. you run for president. you do not roll for president. >> you are sick. >> i'm the one who is voting for the mexican lesbian handicapped president. >> as a director, how is he? >> amazing. you are about to work with a friend -- >> you want somebody to get the best out of you. >> he said, we would need a dramatic pause. i would buy my nails and get

nervous. he said, this is going to be funny. trust me. you will work again. you will have hot sauce in public. i know my comedy. i felt like what was different about us was that much more developed. he doesn't fight you create is not like he had all these incredible taunts and he was trying to show he was the big guy. i'm sure he has a huge ego. it did not feel like that. it felt like he wanted everybody to have greatness. everybody has a shining solo moment. he pushed that from me as well. it was amazing. he says he is the protector. was not the director, he was the protector. i call him the conductor. all these incredible instruments. tracy morgan. whoopi goldberg. jerry seinfeld. amazing people. he would go, and let them hit

the high note. just when they were feeling pleased, he would keep it going. the guy with his back to the audience, he knows how far he can push you. he gets that out of everybody. they shine in this movie. in his previous films, he would do a show right after and save his jokes for the special he was going to do. he did not do that. he said, i'm going to put everything in it and i want all of you to do the same. >> you are the director of this movie. where did you learn to direct? >> i didn't learn how to direct. i learned how to direct from directing, watching the people direct me. dick donner. neil labute. the other good directors i got to work with. >> john singleton. >> i asked him about directing. he said, i am not the director.

i am the protector. i am here to protect my script. i have an idea. some ideas, there are not a lot of people to execute them. i we say, when it is time to hire directors come all want to get off the a-list, you might as well do it yourself. if fincher wants to direct me, i am right there. if alexander payne wants to direct me, please, you can have these headphones. if woody wants to direct me. >> but if not, you will direct yourself. >> do you have to be in the movie? >> not particularly but it probably helps us get funding. i'm sending a message to certain people. he said, i am not the director. i am the protector. i am here to protect my script. i have an idea. some ideas, there are not a lot of people to execute them. i we say, when it is time to hire directors come all want to get off the a-list, you might as well do it yourself.

if fincher wants to direct me, i am right there. if alexander payne wants to direct me, please, you can have these headphones. if woody wants to direct me. >> but if not, you will direct yourself. >> do you have to be in the movie? >> not particularly but it probably helps us get funding. i'm sending a message to certain people. i'm not going to say their names. any time somebody offers you something they are not in, it is kind of an insult. hey, i have this tv show you should do. are you going to be in it? no. you should do it. it is the biggest insult you can give people, honestly. i want you to do this thing i'm not going to be on. why? >> stand up will always be at the core of your life? >> yes. >> why is that? >> i like it. i really like it.

i kind of love it. this is kind of where i make my money, to tell you the truth. i really, it is mine. there are a lot of great directors. great writers, great actors. there are about eight great standups. guys and women that can really really throw down for an hour and 20 minutes. hour and a half. >> louis ck said it took about 15 years to get really good. you were good pretty early. >> i was good. at club level. pretty early. again, it did take 15 years for me to become a guy good enough to get on the charlie rose show. i made money before. >> or to get him to be in your movie. >> it does take about 15 years. standup is not music. there is no justin bieber of stand up. you have to have life experience. you have to have loved and lost to be a good stand up.

you have to have highs and lows. >> you have to have lived. >> you have to have really lived for the audience to take the journey with you. >> do you still go back to the places you began? that is where you can make sure it is as good as you can make it? >> you have to go back to the places you began. it is not music. there is no cushy studio. i have watched enough “rockies.” >> even “the godfather” was not that good. >> you have to go back to the places you began. it is not music. there is no cushy studio. i have watched enough “rockies.” >> even “the godfather” was not that good. number three. >> anytime rocky is not training in a dirty gym, he gets knocked out.

when he tried to make it classy, he gets knocked out. >> at 50 -- >> a rich 50. it makes it about 38. this is not real 50. i have friends who are really 50. >> they are not as rich as you are? >> we look different. >> what does money give you? >> in looks, it takes a little gut away. gives you more time to exercise. >> you are a guy without an entourage. >> you don't have a guy on the phone saying, he is coming down now. have the car door ready. >> i have never done that. i got to hang out with eddie murphy. he does that. he had, he was a movie star when there were not a lot of movie stars. he needs it.

i was taught the entourage separated you from the audience. i think you have to be uncomfortable sometimes to really, to be really funny. a lot of your comedy comes from being uncomfortable. >> a lot of comedy comes from being uncomfortable? >> you have to live in your head. it is hard to live in your head when you are surrounded by people. no disrespect to anybody with the entourage. it is just not my thing. not my thing.

when i'm with an entourage, hopefully it is a bunch of creative people. me, louis ck, seinfeld. steve harvey or something. i like being around -- nothing against a good bodyguard sometimes you need them. but i don't feel like having a nice conversation about body guarding. >> are you going to try to balance stand up and acting/directing and movies? >> your kid is only young once. >> stand up with you on the road. >> it takes you away. i have tried to live a life where i have lived in new york. i did a play in new york. i will take your writing job. grown-ups films in boston, it is a three-hour drive. i have tried to be in new york

as much as possible. as my kids get older and don't want to be around me, i will be more out there as a stand up. >> you were funny, but not the funniest guy in the room. how did you get to where you are? >> most successful people are not the best guy in the room. michael jordan tells stories, he was not the best basketball player. he didn't make the team when he was 13. the great thing about not being the best in the room is you know you have to work at it. it is great not been the best in the room. it has made me work.

my friend lewis hamilton come away funnier than me. >> you made it bigger than them because -- >> i had to work harder at it. comedy didn't just pour out of me. i had to think about it intellectually. just being liked, i never did anything well until i got on stage. >> you found your home. >> it was a calling. there was nothing i did well. to this day, my friend mario his nickname for me is just jokes because i suck at everything else. >> what do you want to do that you have not come to grips with yourself in terms of your future? you have a successful movie that people say is you. you hosted the oscars. you do great stand up.

>> that was a dream. i like being the guy who hosted the oscars. >> thank you. congratulations. >> thank you for doing our movie. we will always have it. ♪

♪ >> if he is right, one day, drones will be everywhere. chris anderson started playing around with robots with his kids. now his company manufactures self flying planes. but his flight to ceo has been anything but direct. he has been a punk rocker. a particle physicist. a journalist. editor of “wired” magazine. and a three-time author. joining me today is chris anderson.