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>> from our studios in new york city, this is "charlie rose." >> we begin with president obama and angela merkel. the meeting took place amid renewed fighting between the

pro-russian rebels and ukrainian troops. they agreed that they would exert diplomatic pressure on russia to withdraw from ukraine but they did not agree on how. despite merkel's objections obama would not rule out the use of lethal weapons. >> if the primacy fails, what i've asked my team to do is look at all options. we are looking at the options that will be examined. what other means could we put into place to change? >> joining us from boston is nick burns from the harvard school of international politics is. i am pleased to have them on this program. x thank you.

just the sanctions and the political process one-stop president putin. it was the first time he has been that first coming. what you are seeing was that president obama was trying to help chancellor merkel stiffen up the european position on these talks with president pugin. the europeans are very interested in peace negotiations think there is a possibility. this would give the russian population a greater measure of autonomy. and the fact that the u.s., they are working together, but they don't see eye to eye. the u.s. has come to the conclusion that the sanctions haven't worked. this will turn the tide of the russian rebels and ukrainian military. >> what is the objective? >> the objective has been clear from the start. this is to destabilize eastern ukraine, to prevent a unified ukrainian state from essentially drifting westward into an economic relationship with the european union. ukraine and russia, they go back a thousand years together.

there are millions of ethnic russians, they go all the way back to the founding of the orthodox church in key off a thousand years ago.

the russians feel president putin feels the ukraine cannot be drifting out of russia. he sees that if ukraine becomes truly independent to in the next several years, he sees that as a loss for russia. >> how is he using russian soldiers? >> he is a former kgb colonel. he has been putting thousands of russian soldiers in the early summer across the border to man the sophisticated weapon systems. actually to engage in the fighting against the ukraine army. he has been denying it. he tells them, the press that russia is not doing anything and the whole world sees it to be the lie that it is. so it is direct military support to undermine president poroshenko, this new president in the ukraine. >> what would be a diplomatic solution to the conflict? >> what the west could live with, the ukrainian government retaining sovereignty and all of

its territory, including in the eastern ukraine, the ukrainian government agreeing to give political autonomy in the big russian ethnic cities like eastern ukraine. but to that the ukrainian army and the ukrainian police would be in charge of law and order. there would be a vestige of sovereignty there. anything less than that is a real defeat for the ukrainian. when they started this conflict, i think angela merkel and obama made an important decision. they were not going to fight for ukraine. which obviously was a wise decision. that left them however with very limited leverage. there have been three or four big sanction efforts by the united states and canada. but, they have not stopped putin. he keeps going. he keeps arming and funding the rebellion.

now, the u.s. has said can we try something like the u.s. tried back with president carter and president reagan? can we provide defensive arms? that will do two things charlie. it will raise the cost to putin in a substantial way. it will level the playing field for the cranny and military so there is a fair fight. the administration believes that if you level the playing field like that, if the ukrainians are more capable of fighting that may actually be the best way to convince putin to go to negotiations, for some negotiations on autonomy. the obama and bush administration made it clear that ukraine was not about to become a member of nato. we understood russian sensitivities. and frankly, as you know charlie, ukraine has had a corrupt government in the past almost a failed state. there was no reason to bring them into nato. with ukrainians are trying to do a year ago, the protests, they were trying for a trade agreement with the european union. that was the tripwire that

caused president putin to decide he could not accept that. it is not about nato. it is about a west word orientation away from the imperialist expansion most russian government under president putin. like the president said he is interpreted he was discouraged and speculation about a further extension of the iran nuclear talks. what are the implications of that? >> it is smart diplomacy for the president to say that. you want to increase the pressure to come to a bottom line, to show their cards and what they are willing to commit to.

as you know, there is a date of march 24 where the conceptual our video the deal has to be put together. the supreme leader said over the weekend in his speech he did not want to see these talks go on forever. he said he wanted to have a short deadline to them. it makes sense. there is political pressure. congress is willing to wait until the end of march to see the president can put forth a deal. >> what happens if there is no deal and renewed sanctions? >> this is a difficult negotiation. pyrenees is to face the fact that the -- the iranians need to face the fact americans will not let them face those capabilities. they have to make some pretty big decisions to see if they can curtail the nuclear program. so i think the president has a , chance with this deal. i think he has done a skillful job of both sanctioning the iranians to date, and threatening military force, and

being willing to have the sister. for the united states and iran. i think if it does not happen if new goshen's fall apart, you are going to see much tougher economic sanctions. >> what is the relationship between germany and the united states? between merkel and obama? >> i think actually, the personal relationship between the two is pretty good. chancellor merkel speaks russian. she is a major interlocutor with president putin. president obama and secretary kerry have a lot of respect for her. and, we need germany right now. we need germany especially if people doesn't agree to a deal on the ukraine talks. we will need a germany to sanction russia further. >> what would you most worry about with respect to the ukraine and the conflict between russia and the west? >> i would worry that president

putin would feel emboldened. that he didn't face resistance in the ukraine. in addition to destabilizing the ukraine, the real nightmare scenario for our leadership would be a russian attempt to destabilize nato allies that border russia like estonia and latvia. you see nato try to reinforce with troops in the position of there not because we want to fight but because we know that putin understands one thing, power. he understands if he faces a brick wall, he has to negotiate. he can go right through someone and keep going. a tough-minded response to putin, it is important here. >> thank you. great to see you. >> thank you. >> back in a moment. stay with us.

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>> "american sniper" has been a critical and commercial success. it has generated controversy. it tells the story of chris kyle, an iraq war veteran sniper who killed 160 people, consider the most kills of a sniper in history. supporters praise kyle as an american hero. critics argue it misrepresents

the man and paints his simplistic picture of a complicated war. lost in the arguments is a conversation about the sacrifices of veterans and the challenges they face when they come home. joining me is jason hall. he wrote to the screenplay for "american sniper." also, jake wood, a former marine sniper, and jacob schick, a retired marine who has a role in the film. and joining us is bob mcdonnell, he is head of the v.a.. bob, it is good to have you back on the program. tell me about the film as you saw it. >> i was thrilled to see the film. because i thought it raised to the american public what military veterans go through. the obvious injuries and wounds are seen by everyone, but those

inconspicuous ones that we deal with in the v.a., i thought it would be great to raise that to the american public. >> when a american goes to war they take their family with them. >> you take your loved ones with you. those connections become incredibly important. we did a program called "make the connection." it is all about that. people return from the battlefield and we want to reconnect them with their families and one of the things we do, which you saw in the

movie, we have pure counselors who have been through these kinds of situations and provide support for the individual on the battlefield. >> jake, what did you think? >> i thought the film was well done. it really weaves together both tales pretty easy tale of chris kyle was what he did in iraq. the legend of chris kyle. the 160 kills. the complicated story is chris kyle coming home. i think that story was not lost in the film. that is not the story that is selling tickets. but we are able to do, when jason is able to do is we've those together and spark a dialogue that has caught fire about what it means to go to war, and what it means to go home. >> when i say take your family with you, when a man goes to war his wife and his family go with him. that is the idea. >> absolutely. >> i was very pleased. >> pleased with your performance? [laughter]

>> i'm little biased freight i did amazing. no, it was amazing. he definitely captured the struggle. this really wounded guy, i know for a fact that physical pain lets you know you're alive. mental pain makes it hard to stay that way. >> mental pain is harder? >> no doubt. you're going to know i had a bad day. it is those wounds between your ears that are hard. likes you say that the script that you ended up with was dramatically influenced by conversations with chris' widow. >> that's right. the movie i wrote alongside chris was much more of a war story or stop -- much more of a war story.

this is a story about war. and his sacrifice. without knowing that, i didn't know what the sacrifice was. it is hard for a man to reveal that stuff. it is hard for a man to explain where he hurts. and what he came home with. you know i got some of that from , chris but she filled in the blanks. x that is what they say, if you want to know a man talk to his wife. >> if you ask me, i am going to say "let's go get a sandwich." >> chris kyle? >> she expressed how tender this guy was that she met. she was in a dark ways. she had a bad relationship, and he was patient with her. one of their first dates they went to the theater. you have this big hoping maybe -- navy seal, and i'm going to

take you to a play. they rented a cottage. he gave for the back room and slept on the couch. he was just very big hearted. he lost that. he lost some of that through the course of these tours. she was able to describe the callous thing of this man and how he found his way back. which was beautiful. >> the question of purpose. we mentioned that earlier. the idea that in a war you have purpose. you have urgency and purpose and a mission. sometimes when you come back home, not with respect to your family, purpose has to be regained. >> that's right. i think of in essence you have to redirect that purpose. the purpose when you were in the military is obvious. you are on the battlefield. you are trying to save lives. i think want jake does with his team rubicon is wonderful because for those veterans

leaving the military, they redirect that purpose to eight natural disaster or other event going on. we try to do the same thing. we try to do with the spiritual health of the veteran and redirect their purpose into something that is as meaningful and create as much self-esteem as they had in the military. >> that is what you are doing with relief in haiti and in other places. >> absolutely. i talked to this kid who joined the army. he gets shipped off to boot camp, gets handed a rifle, get sent to a unit. a year later that individual is sent to iraq or afghanistan. every day after that, for a year, he walked outside the wire with 12 men who he knew had his back to matter the circumstances. they were fighting for a mission he believed in. he takes the uniform off, he may go back to his home town, but things are not the same. he may reconnect with his friends but they are nothing

like the 12 men who had his back outside the wire every day for a year in iraq. he might get a job. it is nowhere near the same purpose driven job he had in the military. he may get some sort of new identity. he may be a father, a student, anything. it is not going to replace the identity had when he was wearing the uniform of his country. how do you replace that voice? >> what did you learn about that? >> those relationships become their primary relationships in a way. the struggle for a family and a wife to understand that, and to understand that she is fighting for her husband, like it is an affair almost, with his other family. >> chris was on four tours of duty. tell me what you learned about him in terms of the pressure, the impact of war on him in connection to family and when he returned.

>> i think for some men, maybe this comes easier. for him when i met him, i shook his hand and looked in his eyes and knew what he had done. i could see it. i could feel it. i could see the toll it had taken. i could see the moral injury. i could see that this man had his beliefs challenged in a way that had thrown everything into the wood chipper, and he was trying to gather up the pieces. >> what beliefs? >> moral injury, taking your beliefs, you walk into war with these beliefs and core values, and you are put in a situation where you are asked to take the situation of a young boy. all of those beliefs, all of these values you hold dear, are gone. they are out the window. [inaudible] the military has become good

about desensitizing you to violence. that is a very necessary but unfortunate reality. throughout boot camp, every order you are given, you shout "kill" to affirm the order. on the rifle range, man shape silhouettes. it has increase the ratio of combatants who were actually firing at the enemy in combat. this is a very thoroughly studied science, the science of killing by military psychologists. it is not easy. and listen at the end of the , day, nothing prepares you for that moment when you are staring at a man or woman, or a child through a scope on top of a rifle, and you have to make the choice. in sniper school, in the marine they are not screening out people for whether or not you can shoot or whether or not you know the art of concealment and camouflage.

but they're screening for is maturity. what there screening for is good judgment. are you going to make the right decision when the battlefield is chaos? we have someone's life in your hands. are you going to make the right choice? >> shooting someone who has a bomb and might do, might kill your colleagues, or whether this is an innocent that has been put there? >> war is so rarely ever black or white. i think that is what contributes to this moral injury. it is not about losing something. it is not about losing part of yourself overseas so much as this burden you carry home. they carry that for the rest of their lives. sometimes you are stronger. sometimes you need the help of others.

during the day, i think of it as a burden. i am carrying this burden on my conscience. i am carrying it upon my soul my religious beliefs, my family. >> it doesn't challenge your beliefs, do you change it? >> it certainly challenges them. i grew up in a religious household, great parents. i believed in evil. the first time you see evil, true evil in the world, and you look at it and see it happening, we experience moments like in the movie in american sniper where he is going to shoot the child. we were in a battle and the senior taliban commander was using young children to run intelligence reports across the battlefield. not armed or carrying weapons. nonetheless moving from frontline back to the rear. at one point a young girl picked up an rpg dropped by a taliban fighter. we had to make the decision. the man on the gun opted not to. it was his decision. his decision alone. no one was going to order him to do that.

nonetheless not pulling the , trigger is a burden that he was going at the bear. if that was used to kill marine, that is something he would have to regret or second-guess until the day he died. fortunately did not turn out that way. we didn't have to kill an innocent younger all. no marines were killed. those were the types of situations happening on the battlefield. it is impossible. >> how did bradley cooper and clint eastwood capture the life of a sniper? like i thought they did it brilliantly. >> what did we see that is instructive beyond what you described in terms of the moment of the kill, in terms of the danger, in terms of what it means to be a sniper? it is not so much the skill. it is the judgment that makes the difference. >> skill is important. there is no doubt chris kyle is a very skilled man. >> why was it that team was so good?

-- why was it that he was so good? >> i didn't know chris kyle. if i had to imagine it is because he was willing to bear the burden. he put himself into the worst situations imaginable. he put himself in a position to face those decisions on a daily basis. >> i would say that. it was a hard question for chris to answer. i asked him that repeatedly. he felt, it seemed to me that people around him felt like he had somehow drew the violence to him. that would it was almost like chris appears on the gun and it all unfolds. it was like this fate, if you will. they called him [indiscernible] -- they called him right is, like he was dipped in gold.

you didn't fill a key with most skilled guy out there. he just felt like he always somehow ended up in the right place to do it. he was also in situations target rich environment. he was in the nastiest of the nasty. he was in the second battle of falluja. then in body -- then in ramadi, when it was a tipping point. >> what made him always go back for another? >> it was his guys. these relationships. >> when you come home, in my case, i spent 18 months in recovery. i had an operation and blood transfusion, military trying to put me back together. the worst part about being in the hospital bed was knowing that my guys were getting ready to go into collusion of.

-- falluja. that was tormenting. that to me was -- i'd rather be blown up 10 times over than suffer that mental pain over and over again. because i knew there was nothing i could do to make sure that they were ok. >> you believe there was something you could have done if you were there. >> that is what chris struggled with. chris was more worried about saving lives than taking lives. that is what made him a master of his craft. >> more worried about saving lives than taking lives. >> that is what he wanted to be known for. he said i wish i was known for the number of lives a saved rather than the lives i took. >> his wife said it was like seeing him again, she said bradley brought my husband back to life. >> i think the body, and the voice was one part of it. but it was the last 20 yards some kind of conjuring, some kind of magic bradley found. we can't explain how we did it.

but he captured his essence, he captured that goodness and humility, as well as the stoicism and the way that that was just chipped away over the course of these four tours. >> bob you know, that the veterans affairs -- you came to this position because there was a crisis there into the president needed someone new to run veterans affairs. tell me what your mission is. >> my mission is to care for those veterans we have in the country, to make sure we care for them in such a way that they get the benefits that they deserve. we are in the midst of our largest reorganization in our history. we call it "my v.a." because we want every single veteran to think of the v.a. as the round

customized for them. we are busy trying to become the best customer service organization in the world. we are not a government bureaucracy. we want to be a business, the best customer service oriented business in the world. we want to take care of our veterans. >> and want do you need it to do that? >> it involves a number of things. first of all we have got to eliminate some of the complexity. we have nine lines of business that include everything from the g.i. bill to home mortgage insurance, to health care, which most people know was for, to benefits. each one of those has had its own geographic map. it's own geographic map of organization structure in our country. a couple weeks ago we announced we are in eliminating those nine geographic map and we are moving to one geographic map, five regions around the country. we will follow state boundaries. we are adding simplicities so

veterans know how to reach us. right now we have 14 different websites into they all require different two usernames and passwords. it is difficult for veterans to figure out how to connect with the v.a. and gets what they need. we were going to one password. we're simplifying things to allow veterans to connect. at my national press conference i give out my cell phone number publicly. i get calls and tech. i did that to show the kind of customer service we need to provide our veterans. >> is so many veterans committing suicide? >> of all those veterans who have been in combat, we estimate anywhere from 8-20% have

something that we call post-traumatic stress. it is a real illness, real disease. it is one that is treatable. we know how to treat it. of those 22 on average veterans that commit suicide by day, we estimate that 17 of them are not connected to the v.a. one of the things we're trying to do is connect as many of our veterans as we can because we know the disease, we know the treatment that works, and we want to get them into our programs so that tweet can do that. we have a crisis line. we are educating the people to know when someone may be at risk. >> you thought about suicide. >> i would be lying to your face if i told you i didn't. >> how did you approach it? what made you have the whatever it took to say no? >> for me personally, that was the hardest fight i've ever had to fight. at the end of the day i didn't want to put my family through that. or my friends through that. and, i also know several guys who have done that. i know guys that have been double amputees. i assure you they didn't do it because they were missing their limbs. i assure you of that. >> why? >> because of the demons they had in their head. i'm telling you right now. once i got out of the hospital and i went over to try to transition back into the

civilian sector, it was essentially a square head, round hole. >> i am telling you right now once i got out of the hospital in i went over and try to transition back over i was essentially a square peg, round total. by its i didn't realize how real post-traumatic stress and brain injury was until i got it. drug-free.

that was my escape in the beginning. i have used medication. i was on the lot of pain medication. i abused it when i transferred over. that was my outlet, my escape. the hard thing to do is to clean the approach this. to approach the demons that you have. that is what i did. i had a huge support system behind to me. that of my family and my fellow marines. i can assure you you cannot do this alone. i tried and failed repeatedly. as a warrior, you do not want to admit to you need help. you do not want to intimate that there is anything going on above your neck. as warriors, we do not do that.

what we have to do is do away with that stigma that it is a weakness if you say there is an issue. i am hurting. there is a stigma that follows it. not just with moyers. the fact that we can read this charge on having issues above the net, someone is going to have to change it. i think it is going to be us that doesn't. it is a global issue. nobody wants to admit they have an issue above the net. -- the net -- the neck. >> is that what this movie is about? >> if you look at chris, he is this mighty warrior. he went and asked for help. chris kyle asked for help, who can't? if a grunt sees this and thinks that his chris kyle, that is a

legend, he asked for help, why can't i? >> this is a very important issue that jacob and jason are raising. i'm glad that we are getting to it. this is why this movie is so important. in many ways the veterans affairs department is a canary in the coal mine. we see issues with american health care before the rest of the country. we are now seeing the lack of mental health professions. i recruit myself to try to recruit mental health professionals. we are producing enough mental health professionals. we do not have enough residencies in this country. we have a stigma in this country. it has worsened in many countries i've lived in for mental health. fortunately we are taking action. we've got the ability to repay loans for people who want to study mental health and work through the v.a. we have residencies from the recent clay hunt act as well as the recent choice act that was passed. these are very big issues. i think that we are onto something. from what i have read, 20% of americans suffer from depression. this is a huge issue for our country. it is something we have to get ahead of. i am hoping that we can play a leading role. i think we are.

>> you think this movie helps understand that because chris kyle was able to seek help, and was able to obviously take advantage of the help he received, or to use it to a positive way. >> in many ways in the movie you see his purpose, which was very strong on the battlefield and very strong at home. redirected as he became a peer specialist. i'm sure he felt as strongly about that purpose because he was saving people's lives. >> take a look at this clip. this is where kris benson to a wounded soldier. >> are you chris kyle? my name is matt. we met in falluja. you saved my life. >> i did? >> yes. we were stuck in a house until you came in with first marines.

you were the ones who carried me out. >> the marines same does plenty of time. are you holding up? >> i'm grateful to be alive. it hasn't been easy. a lot of guys lost more than leg. >> you lose some friends? >> i'm talking but the guys that made it back but they can't seem to get right. >> yes. >> why don't you come down to the v.a. sometime? the guys would love it? my family thanks you for your service. they want to know who the legend is. >> ok. thank you. all right. >> you said, the book enabled him to walk into any v.a. facility and everyone knew who he was.

>> that was his favorite thing. >> the book gave him recognition with his fellow veterans. >> the legend gave him recognition. the book gave him recognition at home to walk in and walk out with some guys and take them hunting or fishing, and talk to them. >> which is where his healing began. >> working with other warriors. helping them cope. >> he probably taught them as much as they taught him. >> i speak for myself, i worked at the center for brain health. we do the same thing. i work with warriors for warriors. it feeds my soul every day.

i think that is where chris started. >> why do you think this has become controversial? is it because -- tell me. your real opinion. >> i think there is a variety of reasons it is controversial. one is that many people in this country don't like thinking that men like chris kyle are necessary in this world. that is the first thing. they don't want to believe that we live in a world that has real evil that needs to be confronted with real violence. i think that it is a tragedy that's people do not understand that there is truly evil in this world. the second reason, i do not think people want to believe that a man capable of as much violence is chris kyle was capable of, that is what he did he imparted to violence up on men overseas that he was also capable of compassion. >> they lived side-by-side in him. >> they did. people don't believe that is possible. >> what do you want to do in terms of the script he wrote in

the performance of bradley, to show both sides. >> there was so much compassion. they shared so much compassion from chris, that it made me feel at a hard guy, that i can even put all that in there because it wouldn't be believable. people take the book and say this is chris kyle, he is on this rant, this soldier so little cry, and that is a snapshot of a guy who spent to eight decade in war. -- he is on this rant, this soldier soliloquy, net was a snapshot of a guy who spent a decade in war. and to think that that is the entirety of this man, his story from when he got back, from nine years of war, it is shortsighted. he became somebody after. >> some people even said this is an antiwar film. >> if we understand the warrior, if we understand what this man goes through, the reason is i want to hear the iraq war was bad. and so on. we told the story. we sat down and said this is a character story. this is the study of the archetype of a warrior. this is from his point of view.

if we understand the personal we can understand the universal. we are not going back to change iraq. we are not going to go back -- this is not about why we -- [indiscernible] >> if it reveals the people who don't otherwise know the horrors of war, if it educates people on how terrible war, then maybe we will ask tougher questions next time. >> the point you made on the duality between being able to do those difficult things in combat and compassion is a really insightful point. i've met lots of veterans in my job, being a veteran myself. the veterans of the most compassionate people you will ever see. i think part of the reason for that is all of us feel inadequate. i served in the army, i was an airborne ranger. i feel inadequate in the

presence of jacob and jake, who have been in combat. they make me feel inadequate. we feel inadequate because the person who is the one who should be adequate is in a cemetery somewhere. all of us feel inadequate to the individual. as a veteran that drives us. it drives are compassion. i look for the -- the veterans are doing great things. talk about what jake and team rubicon are doing, what about other service organizations. i was with vice president biden at the student veterans of american. and he challenged them he said you are the future leaders of the country. the kind of leadership experience you get is a veteran is the kind you need in this country. i don't want the american public to take away that every veteran is somehow damaged. they aren't. we have great veterans who are making substantial contributions to this country. >> two of them are right here. >> absolutely. >> tell me about your own personal experience coming back.

>> i did my first tour with the surge in iraq. it was a tough to her. -- it was a tough tour. we lost a couple of guys in mind the tune. -- in my platoon. it was a nasty place. came back, and what bob mentioned, i didn't feel like i've sacrificed enough. we'd lost 30 guys over the course of two tours. both of my friends lost limbs. i felt like i was abandoning things by getting out. i never received a wound. my best friend got shot. a bunch of buddies were killed. i ended up getting out. >> why did you get out? >> for my mother. i think. like you said your family goes to war with you. my mom had gone to war with me twice, and didn't feel like i could do it to her again. three months after i left the

marine corps, the haiti earthquake happened. i went down there and i refound purpose. i found my new mission in life. my transition really started when my best friend killed himself. that bill that was just signed pastor and he sent -- past through the senate, it was named after my sniper partner. he came home in 2011. he took his own life. that is when i understood the magnitude of issues veterans are facing. that is when i understood what my role, my responsibility was the men i had served with. clay knew he was suffering. what is remarkable about clay was how self-aware he was . he knew he was struggling with

posttraumatic stress. he was an advocate for getting help. he would appear in psa's. he succumbed. i do not think lay killed himself because of what he saw it in iraq and afghanistan. i truly believe he killed himself because he lacked purpose and community in his life. x let's take a look at this. -- >> let's take a look at this. this is another navy seal in another film who was on this program. this is what he said to me. >> people get out there, when the bullets are flying, people are dying, trying to crawl in their helmets. i have heard someone screaming for their mother. i thought that was fake, i thought they just put it in there. but, it is very real. i think that that is the ultimate form of fear, when you

see somebody in the fetal position, crying and screaming for their mother. that is the ultimate safety blanket. your mother's arms. they can't get there. either die, or they are gone. they are never the same. you can't put somebody back like that on the line. >> that is why i think all the way back to william tecumseh sherman saying "war is hell," and the people were the most opposed to war are the warriors. they understand more and more. >> war is addicting. that is a fact that many people won't acknowledge. war is hell. at the same time it is addicting. you never feel more alive than when that rpg shoots by your head. oh man. it is exhilarating. i feel weird saying it publicly, but it is the truth.

you have people that reenlist to go back and get it again. they know they are never going to get in civilian life. some will try with drugs, some will try driving motorcycles down the freeway. it will never have that same rush, the same aliveness ever again. >> i second everything. you are not going to find it. i think a fallback to that, like bob was alluding to, depression. there is a huge part of that. you finally realize i'm not going to get there again. i'm not going to find that high again. then what do you do? what you do from there? you have to the evil to channel the energy you have harnessed to do something. i think to get back to the compassion part of it, i'm not going to speak for everyone here but i can speak for myself. every day is a gift. i have a true appreciation for this thing we call life. this is a biological response. you get over there and you're having a biological response to stress. it shoots that way, and the other way, and you come back and that drops through the floor. >> that happened to chris kyle. >> that happened to chris. >> the other quote, it is good that war is so terrible thus we go -- lest we grow too fond of it. i don't want people to think i'm pro-war.

>> in "the things we carry," there is the famous speech. about like you never feel as , alive as when you are so close to death. >> yes, absolutely. >> the takeaway, it is complicated. it is so complicated. >> at the end of the day we have to remember i'm not glorifying war. war is horrible.

there is nothing cool about it. these kids that sit behind these tvs with video games, they think it is -- it is not like that. there is nothing cool about it. >> people you go to war with. [indiscernible] the family who goes with you because they care about you it , but it is the people who were there fighting alongside with you. i've had one hero another say to me i didn't do it for my country. although that might be patriotic. i did it for the person next to me. that is why i did what i did. >> i remember like yesterday laying on the deck, after i got hit, because i never lost consciousness. i remember everything. it blew me through the top. i remember hitting the deck and then taking my first breath after a couple minutes, and the first thing i did was ask god not to take me in front of my guys, to wait until the bird got there. that is all i cared about. i knew i was hurt, hurt bad. my number one goal was to not

die in front of them. that is all i cared about at that moment in time right then. >> imagine trying to find anything in life that important. and you wanted to keep your finger, didn't you. >> a yes. i see you have done some research. i met my wife and the first hospital i went to. stateside, bethesda. she was an intern at the time. young lt in the navy. it was before i had a long operation.

one of the head physicians said, we need to amputate that fourth digit. we don't think it's going to be any good to you. what do you think? i said if i wake up from this cooperation and you are on the right side of my bed, i'm going to choke you out. do not cut anything else of my body. i was transferred to san antonio. she came in. i made my rounds to apologize people that treated me. because i was that tough to deal with. my dad pushed me in my rolling bed to apologize to people. it was that bad. i saw her walking on the hall and said i would like to talk to you after your rotation. in juneau, -- and you know, they got up early. they work hard. she did. she came by. i asked my dad what you think the odds of her -- of seeing her again? i'd like to talk to you. she said no, -- [indiscernible] i asked her, even ask me one question.

one question only. any question you want. i will answer it truthfully to the best my ability. to show how great of a physician she is, she asked, why didn't you let them take your fourth digit? and at i was almost insulted. firstlike really? , after that story, that is what you're going to go with? i answer her to say because one day i'm going to find a woman who loves me the way i am and i'm going to wear a ring on that finger, and then that finger will have a use. hook line and sinker. she is one of the main reasons i'm still here, i guarantee you. she is every bit as much a warrior as i, if not more. i can readily with conviction admit she is 10 times stronger than i will ever be.

>> thank you for coming. >> thank you bob mcdonald. >> thank you charlie. good to be with you again. ♪

♪ >> live from pier 3 in san francisco, welcome to "bloomberg west," where we cover innovation, technology, and the future of business. i am cory johnson. u.s. stocks rebound after days of losses, and greece may be reaching a deal with creditors even as germany says they have no plans to discuss a new accord with greece at a key meeting tomorrow. one of the big reasons nasdaq was up today: apple. apple's market cap closed at a record $710 billion, the first time any u.s. company passed the $700 billion mark. apple is now twice as valuable as its longtime rival,