>> from our studios in new york city, this is "charlie rose." >> as white house officials confirm the death of an aid

worker, president obama has vowed to bring those responsible to justice. the united arab emirates has rejoin the campaign against isis. this comes as the syrian president said he is receiving information about airstrikes. joining me is cole bunzel a doctoral student in one of the leading experts on isis. welcome. >> thank you. >> tell me, what is the status on the ground today? our airstrikes effective? can they sttop isis? >> i see them as entrenched.

they are very much not losing territory. >> general allen and others feel that because of the universal sense of outrage around the world, there is a new unity among arab states against aisil. do you think that is true? >> in part it is true but i do not think that is going to be borne out. because countries like jordan and uae, they don't have enough reason or interest to go after this group. >> even now. >> even now. >> after their own pilot was burned. >> to put this into perspective,

a day or two before the pilot was burned, his father was protesting not against isis but the jordanian government's involvement. it was only after the burning that a lot of the tribal leaders in his part of jordan decided they were going to be against isis karin >> why would somebody take the position he had before his son was killed? what would be his rationale for being against effort to stop isl il? >> that it is not a jordanian problem. if america wants to pick a fight, that is america's business. and they are shia -- sunni muslims fighting against shia. he probably would not see any justification for jordan being involved in the fight. >> one of the things that people

hope for the president among those, is there will be ground forces from arab countries. muslim countries. that would be an essential element rather than troops from the u.s. or western europe. is that a winning strategy? how do you define winning? >> ground troops is difficult. all military personnel agree without ground troops, this group cannot be rooted out. how do we define winning? it is important to keep in perspective this is a group that has been around since 2006. for many years -- >> nine years. >> there is a counter on the

jihadi websites that says the group is about 3040 days old. this moment of its founding is symbolic and important to the group. for many years, until 2013 it was understood as a paper state. they said this is not really a state. both regional media and our own media military and government officials, refer to them as al qaeda and iraq. it was only in april 2013, when it expanded to syria, that it started to be called isis permit >> they call themselves that. >> they were calling themselves the islamic state of iraq. they were furious they were not getting recognition as the islamic state of iraq. in there audio statements they

are whining about not getting the recognition. they do not want to be known as al qaeda. >> what did you think the risk is here? >> is greater to the region than the u.s.. the video puts that in perspective. i hope it puts it in perspective for arab publics and governments. they see this is a threat to them more than the u.s. it was only beginning in september, 2014 that the islamic state begins saying it needs to attack the u.s. quoting bin laden saying, you should kill an american wherever you find him. that begins after our involvement. after the air campaign. so the beheading of american citizens. -- do the beheading of the

american citizens. >> meaning? you mean the air campaign in iraq and syria against isil. >> i'm talking about the campaign that began in august in iraq. >> without that, what might have been different? >> they might not have executed americans in the same way or at the same time. what might not have been different is there would not have been a call from one of the leaders to attack western targets wherever you can. that call has been heated in many places. >> who made it? >> the speaker or official spokesman of the islamic state who gives a lot of it's more menacing audio statements. >> saudi arabia and the emirates can afford this. what if they offered a reward of

$10 billion? he thinks of it he would step forward to say, -- >> to get the location of the leaders? >> i had not thought of that idea but it is probably pretty good. >> somebody has to turn. what they did with al qaeda and bin laden's they found the career and follow the career. >> that might be how this plays out eventually. the first leader of the islamic state was also killed in 2010 because of a career. -- courier. >>this leader was a much less impressive speaker -- >> than the present one. >> he is a trade islamic jurist

and creature. he has supposedly written a book on islamic law. he speaks compellingly to read >> read his speeches? x i have read all of them and everything he says. >> tell me more about him. >> he is rumored to be about 40 years old. he was born -- >> in iraq. >> he is a iraqi. suemara. he did his phd in baghdad. it is not clear when he joined al qaeda and iraq. he was one of the early leaders. this is all according to what the islamic state itself says

about him. in the dog or feel i have read -- in the biography i have read it it gives the prophet mohammed saying is a descendent of the prophet's tribe. >> had think this plays out -- howdy you think this plays out? >> i think it is very much a long term challenge. >> that is what the president says. >> i agree with him. >> does the goal have to be containing it? or can it be eradicating it? >> i think eradicating it is ambitious. first of all, this is a group that has been around for nine years.

that kind of containing it is the best thing we can do. there are no good solutions. the best option is to limit our own personal involvement as the u.s. so that doug governments and peoples of this region are forced to confront this group. is a threat to them, more than us. >> as soon as they recognize that, they may be able to turn it around. >> and that is the hope to read it seem like something that is going to be -- that is the hope. it is not going to be subbing that takes hold overnight. the battle is being joined but it is not over. al qaeda in yemen is a strong hold out against the expansion. >> they have connected it to the

french attackers. >> is interesting, one of al qaeda's scholars in yemen who claimed credit for the attacks in paris was also one of the biggest opponents of the islamic state in hits efforts to expand to yemen. this man was killed in a drone strike. we have killed one of the greatest bulwarks to the expansion of isis and yemen, which shows our actions can have unintended consequences. >> what is the goal from the scholars in the leader? >> from their perspective they have already created the islamic state. the challenge is to expand it. in the way they can seat it, this is a state to end all states.

this is the only state that has any legitimacy in the world. it is sort of a utopia. it is supposed to be driven by god. the idea is simply to expand and basically for a series of events to ensue once the group has taken over the world. that will usher in and at times. -- end times. that is a large part of their propaganda. >> here's what the leader said. we did not lie against god when we announced the state. we do not lie when we say it will persist. it has not and nor it will ever substituted or abandoned you. >> thank you for coming. >> take you for having me. -- thank you for having me.

>> joseph is here. he served as the top advisor for lyndon johnson's presidency. his book provided a personal account of his time with lbj. that book has been reissued to coincide with the anniversary of the civil rights bill and voting rights act. i am pleased to have joe telefonica. -- califono. this is one of the personal stories of one of the most collocated presents the nation has ever seen. historians will analyze and debate him for decades and eyewitness account, a real-time

close-up of a president path close-up. there has been since you worked for him the controversy over vietnam, which is always there. there has also been bryan cranston on broadway. there are seemingly in the span of history a kind of looking back and reanalysis of lyndon not -- lyndon johnson beyond vietnam. he change the country dramatically and there is an appreciation of that. whether it was health. 60 or 70 million americans on medicare and medicaid.

the arts and humanities. the corporation for public broadcasting. we passed it in six months. there are 400 public television stations. >> you have a list of the number of bills passed between the 88 and 89th congress. >> it was incredible. he kept going. even during tet. the toughest, nastiest terms of legislation in terms of mail was fair housing. to get it out of the senate, he tried and tried. during the middle of tet he calls the michigan senator and says, take that hill to the floor now. this week, we will get it passed. things like that. even in tragedy, the greatest tragedy -- the worst week in his

presidency was the week when king was assassinated. riots in 100 cities. troops and half a dozen cities. it was awful. we met the next morning with the black leaders. the president said to me, we are going to get some thing out of this tragedy. we are going to get our fair housing bill. we could not get it out of the house. a congressman was in a district that was jewish and italian. our traditional allies, blacks were moving in and he did not want it written johnson said we have to get a way to get this on the floor without going through him. he writes a letter to the speaker, the minority leader. he gets the bill through the rules committee. passes it and signs it.

>> what was his genius? >> he knew what he wanted to do. any 64 civil rights act, when i was not there his aides were saying, do not send the act in january. it is an election year. weight. he said what is the presidency for? scented up and got it through. he had concentration and focus. back to teaching poor kids in texas in 1928-29. his driver and cookies to talk about him. they would say, and they drive from washington dc to texas, they have to go to the toilet on the road because there are not toilets for them. they cannot get food in most places. he was determined to change that. >> that came from what he had felt growing up in the whole

country of texas? >> i think so. when johnson was elected in 1938 there was no electricity in the whole country. or running water. >> the about that experience -- think about that experience. in the senate, he went along with a lot of the southern race issues. he said, i will never forget it. he said, i had a chance to change my mind when i knew i was wrong and i used it. joe, if you ever have a chance to change your mind when you are wrong, you use it. >> bryan cranston per trade him getting the voting rights bill passed. -- portrayed him getting the voting rights bill passed. >> i think you captured a lot of

obj. >> -- lbj. phone calls pressure. >> he invented multitasking. he had four or five things going on at the same time. he knew when to give hugs and kisses and to knew when to be tough. >> he knew when to threaten. >> he did. i will give you one example. a few liberals at one point said because the wars is so expensive, there is no money for domestic programs like housing. one is a -- one was a congressman from westchester. he said to me, joe, you call him out. -- up. we will put the biggest housing project in the middle of his westchester district. we got his vote. he knew that.

he knew how to really get something. the sculpture museum and garden in washington lady bird goes to connecticut and sees a beautiful sculpture. she says, we have to do this. he wants to give it to the u.s. to have a museum. nothing like this in the u.s.. but he wants it named after him. johnson said, ok. and then another person wants to named the smithsonian museum. he would not back off. he says no, mr. president. johnson said, cleburne, i don't care if he wants to call it the -- that is the only way people

are going to see the sculpture in this country. we have to do that. he left he -- >> when you look at the war. tell me the impact it had on him. you see him struggling with it. at the same time, you see a man so insecure he did not want to be the first president who presided over a defeat of america and that kind of thing. >> very comes located. -- complicated. he used to say, harry truman lost china and that ended the feared cole bunzel deal. >> this war is not going to --

we are all looking over our shoulder at barry goldwater. we passed fair housing, the biggest housing program in the history of the country. the war wore on him. when he decided not to run in 1968, there were a lot of reasons. he knew he was divisive on two issues. race and the war. i remember we had lunch with him a few days before he announced it. we said, you have to run. you are the only one who gets anything done. he said, the congress and i, we have been lying in the same bed and rubbing up against each other for 50 years. there is no juice between us.

>> is that what he said? >> he was determined to end the war on his watch. he was very close. when he pulled out, he got the north vietnamese to the table. in the fall, he thought he was going to be able to -- do so determined to do it. and then the russians invaded czechoslovakia. the nixon people went to the south vietnamese and said, we will get a better deal if nixon as president. >> did he want to die after going back to texas? >> i think he was depressed. really depressed. but he was consumed with his last public appearance, which was when he released the civil rights papers. his heart was weak. >> he had a severe heart attack.

>> and 1955. -- it was in the 1950's. he was walking up the steps. he had to pop a couple of nitroglycerin pills to do it. he said, we have a lot to do. we are going to make never now. >> they say he went back to smoking. >> he let up -- lit up on the plane ride back to the ranch. even in the worst circumstances, he had the rough politician sense of humor. i would bring him after the king assassination message after message, hoover says this, we need troops here. one nights about three night into it hoover says, a great

black firebrand is organizing to march on georgetown and burn it down. johnson reads it. georgetown was where all the tv guys were. he said, i have waited 35 years for this. >> you think he went to to die when he went back, or he just had sort of given up? >> i think he felt he never got credit for what he did. >> there was on 60 minutes a piece about soma, the movie and the director. -- "selma," the movie. the director said, i was making

a movie, about african-americans. he won the other hand have and spoke to this on other programs and have written about this. you have objected to what, how he was per trade. -- portrayed. tell me about lyndon johnson and "soma." what you know. >> i know that in december of 1964 a meeting between king and johnson, neither knew about se lma but there were trying to think about the voting rights act. lyndon johnson calls dr. king. the first part of that conversation, it is all on tape. you can hear it. just plug into the obj library. -- lbj library.

he says he will appoint the first negro cabinet officer. he says we will have aliens for education for your people. -- billions for education for your people. and then lyndon johnson says but dr., which is how he referred to king the most important thing is the vote. if we take care of the vote, that will take care of 70% of their problems. king agrees. he was not just a minister, they were canny and committed politicians. king says, and the south, the five states you lost in the election, only 40% of negroes had the vote. hardly had to tell that to johnson. johnson says, dr. king you can make a contribution. i want you to find the worst place in alabama, louisiana,

mississippi where a negro has to recite the constitution or three amendments or whatever but a white does not have to do that in order to vote. you go down there, find it get it in the pulpits. on television. get your leaders down there. repeat it and repeat it. so a guy who does nothing that drives a tractor says, it ain't fair. when you talk about it as everybody's right to vote to read not just the negro. but he that reaches a certain age has a right to vote. that will help me shove through what i'm going to shove through up here in washington. king came to and said on figuring i'd, -- on february 9,

soma. -- selma. there was the march. the awful march where john lewis was beaten. the white minister was killed. johnson said, ok. he was appalled at that. he went to congress with that in cripple speech. i speak for the destiny of man. he said, he wanted the marchers detected. i was in the pentagon at that point. bob not america's -- mcnamara's assistant. the orders were, the president is federalizing the alabama national guard. he brought wallace to washington. wallace spewed segregation stuff. wallace says, i cannot control what happens in the voting booths. johnson says, don't bowl me george -- bull me, george read

he said if you cannot protect the troops, i will. i got reports hourly, and they are all available online. they have been for years. of the marches making five miles. this is the successful march that followed, ending in montgomery. with flags waving and people cheering. not to recognize the level of that partnership in a sense diminishes king. king was an extraordinary guy. i knew king. i called him. let me give you a couple of examples. watts, terrible riots in watts. a week after we had the voting rights act signed.

the president said to me, call king. call whitney young. tell them to get to watts and help us. get his people to help us. >> he did. >> detroit, riots in 1967. call king. call whitney young. call this black leader or that black leader. they did. >> when wilkins -- roy wilkins. >> the night king was killed, he had me calling the black leaders to get them to the white house. he said, call dr. king's father and we will fly him up. he said, i cannot. i am not up to it. i said the president asked me to say, he wants god to bless you in this difficult time. dr. king's father said, tell the

president, god bless him. he will need god's blessing more than anybody else. >> the idea of his legacy. are you satisfied that somehow there has come today the reconsideration so the domestic achievement is there? when you look at the totality of a life, it is viewed with as much weight as the criticism for vietnam is viewed? >> that is a terrific question. i think the domestic legacy will last forever. 70 or 50 years from now these programs will still be in place.

the war gets dimmer as people are away from aid to read i think he will never be free from the war. it is like a ball and chain. but i think he is now -- >> for better or for worse. >> nor should president kennedy nor nixon. >> people forget. dozens and dozens of people died under richard nixon. -- thousands and thousands of people died under richard nixon. the one thing that his programs will live -- they are in every part of our life. can't imagine the country without them anymore. people will recognize life is always a difficult thing. a mixed bag. that is the tragedy read the

book as you know, is the triumph and tragedy. the triumph is what he did for people at home. the tragedy is the war. for poverty, the middle class. >> coventry intrigues me most is what you saw firsthand. -- what intrigues me most is what you saw firsthand. the capacity to bend people's well for his own objectives. a study in human personality and understanding. what motivates men and women. how do you speak to that anyway -- in a way? that is an act of leadership. >> wanted to put the first black on the federal reserve board. andrew bremmer was an economist. russell long, the head of the

finance committee. andrew bremmer was born in louisiana. johnson, we have to get russell long's committee to approve him. the head did not want another liberal. johnson wanted another liberal as that would give him control of the federal reserve board. he comes with bremmer. calls russell long over. he has a manila folder. he says i have a candidate for the federal reserve board vacancy. he describes him. he said, and he is from louisiana. >> russell says louisiana? >>he says, i want you to introduce him to your committee. he hands in the folder.

he says, russell, you are a great man to do this. [laughter] it takes courage in one cents. -- since. he used to say men are rooted by love and fear. >> that was his genius to know how much to apply. the triumph and tragedy. a personal memoir by the top domestic advisor, jopseph califano. ♪

>> a pulitzer prize-winning photographer is here. she is credited with changing the way we view conflict zones. she has documented human rights issues and the plight of women. she was kidnapped in kb -- libya while covering the civil war. that inspired her to write her first memoir. it is called, this is what i am doing. i am pleased to have her back at this table.

tell me about writing a memoir. why did you do it? >> it was an interesting process. i was approached by literary agents. my first priority was to do a photo book. i wanted to focus on that. i was meeting with aperture. we had all of my photos on the table. i got an e-mail that people had been killed. i was suddenly overwhelmed it all just what of hit me. i said, i don't want to spend the next day -- year looking at photos of the next decade. i wanted to write. i was meeting with literary agents and it just seemed right. >> take me to the moment where you are lying face down any

soldiers say, shoot them. >> we had been covering the front line. it was shifting quickly. >>there were four of us. at that moment, it was silent. it is always the initial moments of the kidnapping that are most aggressive. they pulled everyone out of the car. i put my head in my lap and was trying to figure out what to do. it was a moment where i thought i can make it go away. i eventually crawled to the right, where my colleagues had jumped out. started running across the street. in that moment, the rebels we had been covering started shooting at kadhafi's troops. we were caught in a wall of bullets. we made a run for it. we went to a cement building. had to get detection.

when we got around the building there were four of kadhafi's troops. they told us to lie on our stomachs. we knew what that meant. when you are asked to lie face down, it means you will be executed. they put their guts to us. i remember looking up into the gun barrel and thinking, please. there was nothing else i could say. i looked to my right. we each were doing the same thing. please do not shoot us. it was a moment of baking. -- begging. finally, the commander decided you cannot shoot them, they are american. they tied us up and carried us off and placed us in vehicles.

we had to sit there for hours on end while bullets and artillery landed around us. >> why did they do that? looks to scare us and play games with us. when you are a captive, a lot of it is about instilling people with fear. >> moments like this forced you to ask the obvious question, why do you risk your life? >> every time i have been confronted with death, i ask myself, why am i here? why do i are so much about this particular story that i am going to give my life? i don't see there is an answer certainly not in that moment. nothing seems to justify being there. but it is an answer. i believe this work has to be done. i have the tools to go to these places and tell the stories and bring it home for the reader in a way that is accessible.

>> does it get easier? >> yes, the more one covers war, the easier it is to go back. it gets harder when you start pulling away from covering war. it is harder to go back. it is almost like there were moments when i was covering iraq for example. i was there in 2003-2004. i felt much more comfortable in iraq than at home. i would go home and say, nobody cares there's a war going on. i didn't feel like i fit in. i felt lost control in iraq with fellow journalists and iraqis -- most comfortable in iraq with fellow journalists and iraqis. >> what do you look for when you are there? >> situations present themselves. i'm leery of photographing the same scene the audience or reader has seen many times before. i don't want to be in a situation, take photos, and

have the errors -- have viewers turn the page without asking the question, what is going on? i'm looking for quite moments in war. intimate moments. moments that are unique. moments where people let their guard down. crocs take a look at some photographs. let's look at the first. kabul, 2000. women showing their faces at the hospital. >> i first went to afghanistan under taliban rule. i was living in india. i had a roommate who said he had gone there. he said, you should photograph women. i thought, why not? as one does when they are 26. i went in. i lined up access through a small landline organization.

i knew as a woman i would have access to women in a way men would not. it was a play the taliban could not or would not go. photography was illegal at the time. the television prohibited it people from photographing any living being. women's hospitals seem like a good place to do that and photograph the medical situation for women. >> does gender make a difference in war zones for photography? >> i don't to get does on the front line. i think it does when i am covering stories that have to do with women. in islam the genders are segregated. i am often put with the women and i have great access to them. i am able to breath them in a way that my male colleagues cannot. >> -- to photograph them in a way menmy male colleagues

cannot read >> we drove in their in the day kandahar fell. there was a big new york times convoy, almost a dozen people. i was absolutely terrified to get out of the car. i was sitting with a new york times photographer. we pulled in in front of the governor's mansion. we pulled up. i remember looking out the window. there were all these bearded man with kalashnikovs and rockets on their backs. just looking at us. it was not common to see a woman with her face uncovered in kandahar. i said, i'm terrified. she jumped out of the car and started shooting. i said, i will pretend like i am not scared. i walked up to these guys. a lot of them have lost a limb

to land lines. they were sitting around with flowers. they had carnations. it was a very funny scene. >> northern iraq, 2003. >> this is the first time i had been in attack. i had been to northern i raq in late february. the u.s. started sending cruise missiles into northern iraq. this was right around that area. a group of journalists went in a convoy and were waiting on a road where the village is. the villages were emptying out. we were interviewing people as they would come out. all the locals were saying to us, get out of here, it is not safe. we said, we will leave. but journalists linger and want

to get reporting. we were getting final interviews and photos. i got this feeling in the pit of my stomach. i ran to our car, shut the door. a massive explosion went off 20 yards behind us. it had been a car bomb. >> is iraq, 2003 as well. >> -- next slide is iraq, 2000 three as well. >> the white sheets are filled with remains of body's. there was a mass grave south of baghdad. it was several weeks after saddam hussein was deposed. the initial scene was this incredible landscape of the earth dug out. people walking around pulling plastic bags out of the ground and looking at the remnants and trying to identify relatives through a back of bones and

clothing. -- bag of bones and clothing. it was the most unbelievably tragic scene. i walked into one of the rooms. here was a man, weeping. >> you were embedded with dexter? >> we had done a lot together. we spent a lot of time together in iraq and afghanistan. in 2009, he called me up create no, it was -- called me up no, it was 2008. he said i have a great story. my husband was sitting there.

he said, i'm going to line up access. they assigned me to work with him. he spent a lot of time aligning up access. the night before, the commander in the tribal area gave us permission to come. he said, do not bring a woman. no matter what you do, do not bring a woman. dexter and i look at each other and say, we are not separating. the translator was tormented. he said, you cannot bring a woman? what are we going to do? we said, we are not going to separate. he said, we can say you are his wife and he cannot leave his wife alone. i was wearing you could not see an ounce of my skin. we went to meet the commander. dexter and the commander --

translator asked for permission to bring his wife in. i get led in. there are 15-20 sitting in the small room with weapons. a woman walks in. they look, like, what is a woman doing here? i'm tripping over myself. dexter says, this is my wife. i said, my wife has a camera. you mind? i take out -- plug the massive camera and start shooting. clicks you one a pulitzer prize for that? >> the new york times eight joined pulitzer for international reporting -- a joint ports are for international reporting. my pictures were part of that. >> was the satisfaction for you? >> -- what is the satisfaction

for you? >> giving people a new perspective on war and what happens to civilians. >> is it getting more dangerous? >> i think so. isil does not have guidelines. >> they behead journalists. >> we are seeing as a $, a way for them to make money. journalism has always been respected. in 2004 i was kidnapped outside of falluja by a group affiliated with al qaeda. we convince them we were journalists and their to do the honest job of telling the story of the war. they let us go. that's the volumes. >> this book is called "this is what i do. thank you. >> think you so much. -- thank

you so much. ♪

>> i'm john heilemann. >> i'm mark halperin. >> and with fondest memories. >> happy national peppermint patty day, sports fans. we we are here live in washington, d.c. for the celebration of the new hampshire primary centennial. the party tonight we are cosponsoring it because we hear there will be a lot of cheese. not just the spreads. we expect similar jokes this evening. anyway, before we get to that, the big news is president obama is asking congress to authorize the use of military force