>> from our studios in new york city, this is "charlie rose." >> a program notes sunday night on 60 minutes, i had a piece

with larry david. here is an outtake from that interview. >> why did you want to do a play? >> i thought it would be something different, something fun, something i never experienced before. i would stand in the back and watch it and go to rehearsals and consult with the director and just see the entire thing unfold and then all of a sudden come it was presented to me to be in it. and, yes, i did have that moment of, oh this will be really challenging. i made the decision to do it. >> and you are glad you did. >> yeah, but -- ok, i am glad. somewhat. i am glad with reservations. >> the director says you're an actor. you may say you are not, but you are. >> that is nice of her to say. >> you don't think you are? >> i am doing this, so i am.

ok, i am an actor. >> why do you say you are not? >> i have never felt like one. when i sit in an audience, i don't look at the people performing and say, i was doing that. i don't say, i wish i was in that movie. actors do that. i don't do that. ergo, no actor. >> on friday night on this program, an hour with larry david. next, al hunt on the story. >> senator lindsey graham in his third term. the 59-year-old air force veteran, a colonel in the reserves says he is exploring a run for the republican presidential nomination next year. welcome to the program. >> thank you. >> the senate passed a clean

department of homeland security bill funding as 30 and of the year. the house says the best they can do is short-term. how will this movie and? >> i think they will send over ada just funding bill with a 2014 order repealed. the 2012 executive order -- there are two executive orders. one cover dream act children. young children brought here as babies lip there all their lives. -- lived here all their lives. in 2014, he expanded it to 5 million additional people. i think the house will say, we fund dhs but you have to repeal the 20 order and we see what democrats do. seven democrats during their campaign said they disagreed with the 2014 order. >> but that won't be done in this context. won't you have to pass a funding

bill and then come back to that issue later? >> i think the house will give a senate a chance to say no. seven democrats are on record saying the 2014 order went to far. they have a chance to basically defund the order. if they refuse to do so, and most likely what we will do is do a clean bill. >> the house will have to go along with that. >> eventually. we are in charge now. if you believe the threat level is what i think it is in the number of organizations trying to attack this country are as large as i think they are, you would not shut down dhs for 30 seconds. >> hasn't been more difficult because of the conservative political action committee meeting in washington? >> i don't think it has made it more difficult. a lot of enthusiasm in that room. rand paul --alike and say is

they are nice folks but if he is one income it is not a test of conservatism. i don't think there are many places in the republican party where they would do that well. i think it is a group of people who anytime, rand paul went the day, it is not reflective of the republican party. >> you said you are testing the waters for a possible presidential run. what kind of reaction have you gotten? what are the odds you will do it? >> reaction has been good. people want to invest, want to come to work. i will probably know in the next 30-45 days. it'll not be an emotional decision. i don't mind taking a risk. i understand a candidacy is a long shot to matter who you are. at the end of the day, i feel

like i have something to offer my party and my country and if i can see a pathway for it national security with a problem-solving security i think would play well in 2016. >> more likely than not, you will go. >> it is more likely that i will go if we have a financial passport. -- pat for it. again, i think i know why we are in such a message nationally. i understand what it will take -- in such a mess internationally. there will be a lot of talk in the primary about conservatism and about the party and the country. there are two things we should get right. stopping radical islam for getting a weapon of mass distraction is the challenge of

my generation. if they do, they will use it. the second is the retirement of the baby boomers. 80 million of us are gone to slump medicare and social security and take the entire economy down, crying out for entitlement and tax reform. somebody has to have the skills get indispositionn to get both parties in a room. >> the last several presidential elections, foreign policy has really been a secondary issue. do you think that will be different in 2016? >> i think the rise of radical islam and the threats we face from nations like russia, but the number one national security threat is the iranian regime with a nuclear credibility. isil is one of the most lethal destructive, hateful terrorist organizations ever known.

it is legal, destructive, and they want to calm here. the iranian regime is the ultimate game changer. sunni arabs will not allow persians to have a nuclear capability unmatched. a good deal limiting the nuclear capability is a blessing to the world. >> if sanctions are no longer an effective weapon, does that mean force is the next step? >> if you attack a run, he opened pandora's box. -- you open indoors box. you need to get the regime to abandon them to clear request -- quest. if they don't believe we will attack them as a last resort, they will press forward. look what they are doing without a nuclear weapon. they ran hands of destabilized for air capitals.

we don't have eyes and ears on that organization because yemen has been taken over. 220,000 people have been killed in syria. the militia is running wild in baghdad. if you believe sanctions and gave them more money, i would argue they would not build school houses and hospital they would invest in the havoc they are wreak8ing. king. >> let's go to isil. you from the other possible republican candidates is you want to put boots on the ground. what do you envision? they are there until we defeat isil? are they a more permanent force? >> the first thing you have to ask is does isil represent a

threat to your homeland? i think the general belief is that isil is a threat to america. there are over 4000 foreign fighters with western passports. baghdadi told the colonel, i will see you in new york. if you believe ist is not just a regional threat, why wouldn't you conclude an american component to defeat them? it is a generational struggle. [indiscernible] >> i want to keep the war over there so it is not come here. we need to supplement regional forces, give them the capacity they don't have and have an

intelligence network that can pickup chatter before the attack comes. we need a presence in the region to build up those who would live in peas with us so they can have the capacity to say no to this ideology and the good news for us -- most people want to say no. >> does it worry you that putting american forces there is exactly what the radicals want? they can rally the faithful and recruit against the crusaders. >> not really because how do you defeat them without going on the ground? somebody has to dig them out of these cities. if the security forces seen now as a shia army goes into mozilla without an american component, i am afraid the sunnis will start fighting them. the kurds are very suspicious of the iraqi army today. american support component gives

everybody confidence and it separates the forces so they can effectively fight. we are the glue that holds that part of the world together. i am sad to say we were right about leaving iraq without any troops. everything john mccain and lindsey graham said has come through and the military -- true. >> the other trouble you mention is russia. if we were to get defensive arms to the ukraine. putin'behavior says he will raise the stakes. how far can we go? >> a cost-benefit analysis is not working. defensive weapons are not only a

cost-benefit change, it is the right thing to do. we filed the budapest memorandum and 9094. -- in 1994. the agreement has been trampled upon by the russians. here's what i'm trying to tell people. another global economy but also a global national security network. weakness in one area creates problems in another. the front of a german's are being -- the french and the germans are being soft on vladimir putin. what i want the iranians to see is that vladimir putin paid a price. anyone percent of the russian people feel he is doing the right thing. i think he is doing the wrong thing. he is wrongdoing in neighboring nation that wants to be a democracy. >> to do good you envision

putting western troops there? >> trainers. i would provide lethal arming to the -- i would grind his economy to the ground. you have georgia being interfered by the russians. you have nato's reputation on the line. every time this happens in history, we regret it. every time a bully or dictator gobbles up a neighbor by the force of arms, all of us eventually regret it. i believe vladimir putin could be put in a box. that he will respond because benefit analysis will make him respond. he is playing a poker game with a pair of twos.

we have a full house. the iranians are a weak economy and military. they're on the wrong side of history. vladimir putin is on the wrong side of history. >> let me go back to the middle east. you noted u.n. john mccain said it was wrong to withdraw forces in 2010. let me go back further. was the original decision to go to war in 2003 knowing what we know now there were not weapons of mass instruction a proper decision? >> yes because the intelligence we had the time suggested saddam hussein was trying to acquire those. >> but it was wrong. >> but he was shooting at our airplanes. >> he was a bad guy but knowing what we know now, what it had been better if we had not gone in? >> that is a good question. is the world better off without saddam hussein? i believe so.

for an american to suggest otherwise that we are better off leaving these dictators in place because it creates stability, the daily get to that point that we long for the days of saddam and other dictators is the way we have lost -- >> looking at libya today, is it better off? >> they will be better off sunday. the mistake we made was not supporting the day after. they rose up. that vacuum has been filled by terrorist organizations. here's what i think makes us better off. never to expect someone to live in a dictatorship for your convenience. i will not tell the young people their world, could you just suffer along?

two things are going on at the same time. a fight for the heart and soul of islam and the realignment of social justice and how you govern. to be america, this is not hard. i am a practical guy. they are forcing me, the young people of the region are forcing me to take a stand. we should have done more when they ran and slid into the streets in 2009. i will never give an inch on the idea that the best thing for america is for other people to live free. >> let me come back home. you say it is terrible --when will you change >>? > the low point in my time was one republicans agreed in

the first place. >> will you change this? >> absolutely. the only way it will be changed is to do nondefense as well as defense and had democrats, not just republicans. i will challenge my party to replace it quest ration -- sequestration. i am willing to close a deduction in the tax code. >> you are willing to raise taxes. >> i am willing to eliminate deductions and take tax credits off the table. >> this is what you will campaign on. >> i am going to put the national security interest of the country ahead of the tax code. >> how about immigration? you were a key supporter of that bill. >> i would support comprehensive

reform. i would secure our borders first. i would have more legal immigration. i would try to verify employment because if you can always get a job here illegally, they will keep coming a matter what you do with the border. i would say, criminals and gang members are not welcome. as to the rest, you can stay here legally. you have to learn the language pay fine, get in the back of the line, have a 10 year bar before you can apply for a green card butt i would never adopt the european model. if we allow you to stay at her you made the cut -- after you made the cut, you will be a part of the american dream if you want to. a pathway to citizenship is an essential ingredient to immigration reform. i hate the european model where you have millions of people who are the hired help. >> there has been chatter about scott walker.

he does not have a college degree. you would be the first unmarried president since james buchanan. do you think voters care about that? >> we will see. i think america can handle both. married people have had their chance. they screwed it up. look at all of the college graduates. look at what they have done. america will judge made it somewhat i can do for their family. it really is about us as a nation and i hope there is a role for single people. >> colonel lindsey graham. thank you for being with us. we will be back in a minute. ♪

>> john chambers is here. he has been chairman at cisco systems since next 95. the company emerged as an of the most important players on driven economy. the company has faced increasing pressure as technological shifts challenge its core business. itt's most recent quarterly

earnings revealed the company's best revenue growth of the last three years. welcome. >> it is a pleasure to be with you. >> cisco used to be considered the plumbers of the internet. routers was your big business. what kind of company, how would you define it today? >> it has moved from what i think 20 years ago, we were the plumbers, the company that made the internet work and people came to us to say, how do you use the internet to do outsourcing, etc.. what is exciting today as you are about as a second-generation of the internet and it will be bigger than a the first by five-tenfold. think of the first one as the information era.

there was a 16% growth in gdp 16% growth in income for america. we now see everything becoming digital. that means everything is connected. >> what does it mean to be digitized? >> everything will be connected. for a country come it means we will grow gdp by 1-3% more than you would have otherwise. you will bring broadband to every person in your country. if you do your job right, you'll be able to be inclusive of minorities, etc. in this. you will attend child care, education, traffic -- it will change health care, education traffic. probably $19 trillion in cost savings. >> the 1% increase in the gdp, it enables you to be more productive and cut cost or is it because it somehow contributes to growth?

>> all of the above. there will be disruption. much like any time there is an industry disruption from the uncertain jobs that are not as predominant and you have other jobs that increase. what we would do is through education, it would help people get a job in the new economy. if you use france as an example and i think germany will follow see it -- follow suit, they think about the gdp growth innovation, how to extend this to every citizen, how to do security. cisco is in the middle of that. we are back speaking to the board of directors. a year ago -- [indiscernible] >> you could really feel the fact that you were no longer relevant to them as you have been early on and cisco's career.

>> they had not brought -- bought into the second generation of the internet. they have now bought into it. we are much more predominant. i cannot have had this level of discussion with chancellor merkel president of élan and prime minister velez with the leaders. today, we are more relevant than ever before. >> why are you more relevant? what are you doing? >> we take these cool technology thanks -- cloud, mobility, collaboration from and we get business outcome. it could be history creation innovation gdp growth. if he talked about a walmart, we partner with them in ways we have not before. instead o --we changed our organization structure and turn its company -- this company on its head. this will be a time of rapid

reconstruction. every company will be a technology company. a bank of america will be a technology company specializing in banking. when you talk to a ge they say, we are becoming a technology company. they say strategic partner sites are much more relevant than before. we are not only back in vogue, we are in an area that goes on data centers to routers to security to collaboration. >> there is also cyber security. where are we and cyber security? we see hackings every day. there are thousands of attacks that take waste every day. the government -- that take

place every day. we have seen hackers of major companies. sony got a lot of attention. is there a defense to cyber espionage? >> the answer is yes. the complexity and frequency and sophistication are going up to magically. i made a statement about three months ago that unfortunately will be right. i said the number of cyberattacks and the damage they do will probably go up exponentially this year. >> why is that? what is causing mr. magic rise this year? -- this dramatic rise this year? >> i think it is organized crime, malicious hackers disgruntled employees, other factors. everything goes digital. every company, home, car. you say this is enabled by the internet of everything. you have to have security.

with the deal we did in france it is there most ambitious partnership ever. security was a huge part of it. you have to think about security . the average customer has 40-60 security vendors. you look at a ceo and you know where i'm killing -- that means you have none. the bad guys will find the weakest link. our goal is to become the number one security company. each element of the network talks to each other. you see us move rapidly. i think we will be one step ahead of the bad guys. you have to understand the brand applications if you are wrong on this. we made a decision to try to become the number one security company 18 months ago. people said, yeah right. we are close to that now. it is set up for somebody to on

that part of the market. we are poised to do that. just will probably see this coming. he will probably adjust. my competitors from 15 at the 20 years ago, none of them exist today. -- 15-20 years ago, none of them exist today. if we don't change we will get left behind. anybody that thinks they will not be disrupted in the next five years is wrong. >> someone will come along with the technological change our business model. >> an uber or lyyf versus taxis.

amazon versus retail. >> what is the sharing economy doing? >> i think it will drive it. there are new business models. uber will create a different mentality toward an industry and it is a technology company first. a transportation company second. fast-forward 10 years. we may not own cars. we may do that on a shared basis where we share drivers. >> especially true with millenial's. >> with all of us. we may find it is so much more convenient that all of us change. this is where you talk about a transition. you have to see that coming, you have to build flexibility to digitize. what cisco does as we go and say we can help you not only transform a company, we will also provide the technology that

we should do it at a lower cost. >> is it still software, software, software? >> i actually think what tilted with software, what intel did -- what bill did with software -- it was the pc combination. it is always been software and hardware. we do it all within the cisco system. that is what you see our margins holding up very well in an environment that is very competitive. >> jack ma was with me earlier. what do you think of him? >> i like him. he learned to speak english outside an american embassy he had the courage to start his own company. he disrupted the status quo. he is aggressive, fearless.

he has done a great job. like many thanks, we see if he is as good as i think he is what he has his first major disruption. jack welch taught me, you have a good company. he said, that means you are not a great company yet. i said, what does it take? he said, it is when you get disrupted and you come back. he called me up and 2001, he said you have a great company. jack ma will do that. i think he will do it well. most companies when they go through it come 87% of companies will have a serious revenue setback this decade. only 11% comeback. >> what influences you the most? where do you depend for your information sources? in terms of what guides you as you make decisions? >> i think we do three things.

we think about being customer driven. they tell me when i'm doing things right or wrong >>. they tell you what the competition is doing also. >> yes they do. and we say, how do we differentiate ourselves? this week, i met 50 individuals. some of them government leaders, some technology, some customers. some really top financial people in new york. when he listened, we called the turn in europe three quarters ago. our business was a -4% to 7%. we called the downturn in emerging markets a year and a half ago before anyone else saw it. it went on acting percent growth two -21. we were very active.

we called the upturn this last quarter. our emerging markets grew 1% outside of russia, brazil, and china. the rest of the markets grew 8%. we called in 2007, the downturn in the middle of summer. they said there was something wrong with the financial industry. we called the upturn 2.5 years ago because we sarin enterprise and commercial business -- because we saw our enterprise and commercial business start to grow again. >> quickly, china will grow about 7%. what are the implications about that? >> the issue is how our governments get along. by now, china is only 3% of my business. it should be 10%-15%. if our governments don't execute

well, we will not. >> india? >> double down on india. it is on fire. he has been the best example of a leader in the world i have seen lately. he will be a digital india. he will do smart cities. he knows how to partner with this is. if you watch their stock markets, especially the last entities, it is on fire. >> russia. >> again, it is important to separate the political issues from long-term issues. long-term issues, you have to have a stable russia. in the short-term, it will be how our government works through these gives and takes. >> great to have you with us. >> great to be her always. >> john chambers, ceo of cisco. back in a moment. stay with us.

richard price is here. a novelist and screenwriter known for attentive books. he returns to the world of crime and his new novel under the pen name harry brandt. it takes a look at a group of new york city cap's and the cases that got away from them. i am pleased to have richard price at this table. >> thank you. >> stephen king in terms of a blurb on the back of the book " grim, gutsy, possible to set down. i began being fascinated and ended up being deeply moved. he knows everything about police let them plenty about friendship. what your friends do for you at what they sometimes do to you." critics have been a gleeful up raise. what is it about -- have been full of praise.

what is it about crime novels? >> i get interested in the panorama of the area. i take thousands of notes. i don't really have a story. how do i get all of this in a book without it being a travel log? if there is a crime in that area that in some way and centralizes the conflict in that area if you follow the orderly investigation of the crime, it will give you the spine of a story and all of the people that come to interact --witnesses victims, bystanders, police families. you will get an orderly, massive

picture of a turf. it is the only way -- the last thing in the role that comes to me is the story. >> wide we need kerry brandt -- harry brandt? >> it was a mistake. a mistake of judgment on my part. what i intended to do was write down an utterly stripped down and totally orthodox genre urban thriller. it was such a different identity for make him even though i was dipping into the same pool i always do but the style would be so different. once i started writing i just realized after 41 years of writing, there is only one way for me to write.

the book cap expanding. it is not just about the crime. the characters kept widening. the family became a subject. family has never been a subject in any of my books. >> in the end, you were being richard price. >> it is like i put on a glass care of pajamas thinking -- pair of pajamas thinking nobody would notice i was naked. >> it did not happen, did it? >> no. >> when you circle around a murder enough, you get to know a city. >> it is an interaction between the victim and the perpetrator which represent a certain part of the culture. the police come in and that is a different class. if it is an area in which there

is an intermingling of welfare and working and upper class with witnesses, if you just expand the investigation outcome you are talking to the guy that owns the restaurant on the corner, the chinese immigrant that was walking by people in the projects where the victim lived, some kid from colorado that came in looking for a bank job and was barhopping with his friends. it just metastasizes in a creative way. >> a notable thing about this is the photographer. >> i gave this guy a job running nightwatch. they respond to murders between 1:00 a.m. and 8:00 a.m. when there are no active detective squads in manhattan except this 6-8 people that have to respond. >> they photograph murders.

>> they photograph disasters. you are showing up at a fire in washington heights and then you go into a hold up on wall street and then a strip joint where there was a brawl with visiting professional basketball players. i felt it was a perfect headache job from scene to scene. i love that. >> you take thousands of pages of notes. you take a lot of notes. but you don't do research. is there a difference? >> this book, i did not do any research because i had such a backlog of incidents and details from 25 years of working the streets. i thought, i'm just going to go to the warehouse and pull out my memories. normally, i go out and take

notes and by the time i come to him, i have a pile of notebooks as big as a subzero refrigerator. >> when do you know to start writing? >> usually, there is an intervention to get me to start writing. i loved being out on the street so much more than i love writing. i love anything more than writing. i hate sitting there and getting ready for the levitation act to leave my body and go into the body of the land. that stuff is work. i try to avoid it. >> do you think this is the thing with most writers? >> i can't speak for most writers. david talked about the daily ordeal of getting yourself to the desk. once you go there, you're not coming back for hours. it is like avatar when they put you in the tanning bed and you are a giant blue guy with a

tail. >> tell me about billy grades. -- graves. >> he is the head of nightwatch. at the end of his career. when he wasn't anti-gun, and the worst part of the bronx, you as a member of a crew of guys that would run the streets. it was the homicide rate in new york city at that time. these guys, it was frontier justice. there are decent guys but it was kind of like anything goes. it was a horrible time but it was their salad days and they remembered that time because it was so intense. then, billy and all the others became detectives and life slow down and a lot of them went out

and became other things -- a funeral director, a real estate mogul one guy is a freelance building super. they all went out, there was one guy they couldn't nail and they were like ahab's. this was the one that got away. they either couldn't prove it or in some way, this guy skated justice. they took this guy into retirement with them. they all have that one guy. >> what happened to cause and to renew contact? was it the murder of jeffrey? >> he has always been in contact. they have always kept up contact. monthly dinners. one of the guys had a white. on the nightwatch, they got a call to penn station on st.

patrick's night and one of the revelers who was hammered was slashed in the for moral artery. he died there and nobody saw the guy -- for moral -- femoral artery. when he sees the guy coming he says, that is jeffrey banyan. could he have been the white of one of the retired cops. now the white is dead. now he is reaching out to the cops and saying god gotten. then he finds out that one or two other whites have left the earth. >> did you find yourself embedded with groups like the wild geese? >> i spent time with cops.

preferably not on foot, i am kind of lazy. upbeat tops. -- cops. i spent an equal amount of time with the people in the communities where police presence is a constant. whenever i'm with the people, i'm grateful that they welcomed me into the house of their life and i will write about them if not with advocacy but with empathy and sympathy. equally the guy that just got collared and the guy that did the coloring -- collaring. i am not in love with cops. i'm not a cop groupie. i did not wish i was a cop when i was a kid. >> you dedicate this to your wife. on my block we still play on my

block we still pay. >> that is a shout out to my wife because it is a tupac lyric. harlem was our home, our arena. >> where does the time of the white come from? >> the ones that got away -- they are like moby dick. the guys chasing them, even though they are retired, they are like ahabs. i made up a word that they referred to each of their devils as "whites." >> this is what connolly said. " those you go into darkness as a matter of course and duty rings up the measure of darkness back into themselves. they keep it from spreading like a cancer. it is this struggle that brent

places at the heart of his storytelling, another great so-called crime novelist said the best crime novels are not about how crops work cases, they are about how cases work cops." that is a good line. this is about how the case works we c -- works the cop. >> these people take this guy who committed some kind of atrocity and you never know one man's atrocity is another man's big deal. rarely are the whites for these guys the perpetrators that had the highest victim count. it is something personal between something inside that cop and the scenarios. it is something about the perpetrator --they are

responding to something. >> billy grades is the moral conscious -- graves is the moral consciousness of this. >> he is a regular shmo. >> he has a difficult marriage. >> yeah. his wife -- she has a black secret that he can never get to the bottom of which is revealed during the book. the thing is, they love each other. they have these two wild indian kids as they would say. they love each other. somebody is stalking them. they will be caught as pistols in crisis but never once does either of them have a nexus central. -- an existential thought about marriage or their place in life.

all they want is what they have. >> you said you are not a cop gr oupie. you seem to have an intuitive understanding of cops and they're like and what their life does to them. when you look at ferguson or places where there have been real conflict between cops and community, what do you say? >> it is complicated. four eric garner, there is a video. there is no second-guessing. there is no video of what happened in ferguson. i think it was a bad stop. it was just a bad situation. he says this happened, someone else says that happened. we don't know. we know it is a predominately nonwhite town that used to be white that suffered white flight

yet kept control of power in that town and a police force overwhelmingly white. when that happens, the cops feel like they are in a fort surrounded by indians. they behave that way. they have this thing -- they feel like the people around them are the enemy. the people around them feel -- the cops are an occupying army. the power is concentrated into white people who barely live there anymore. you have a police force that has so few minority members. anything can make it explosive. when cops also take eric garner in staten island -- i feel like when police kind of live in the microclimates of their precinct or town, they have a very close

to thinking about how to conduct themselves on the street. it is not challenged until someone has a cell phone. this is the way their fathers or cops. -- were cops. it is an ethic of conduct. >> the book is called "the whi tes." anybody who reads the book knows who the writer is. i thank you for coming. >> it was fun. >> thank you for joining us. see you next time. ♪

>> "with all due respect" to vladimir putin, you are no viktor petrov. on the show tonight, the sea pack demo -- the cpac demo. but first, benjamin netanyahu has come to washington. today, he talked to a screaming aipac