announcer: from our studios in new york city, this is "charlie rose." al: vernon jordan is an eminent

investment banker and longer. he was a pioneer in the momentous civil rights struggles in the 1960's and 1970's. he escorted charlene hunter through jeering mob to integrate the university of georgia in 1961, was then field director for the georgia naacp was executive director of the united negro college fund, and from 1971-1981 was president of the national urban league. as america celebrates the 50th anniversary of the selma alabama march and bloody sunday which led to the voting rights act, it's a pleasure to have vernon jordan here. and you for joining us. burning: and you for having me. al: how important was selma to the civil rights struggle? vernon: selma was a crucial struggle. it took us that giant step

because selma led to the voter rights act of 1965. there is a historic notion that the voting rights act of 1965 was passed by the congress here in washington dc. the fact of the matter is, the voting rights act of 1965 was written on the road from selma to montgomery. and all washington did was to formalize our information the to put the wherefores and that their first -- the air force the periods and semi-colons. but the actual law was written from those marches from selma to montgomery. it's a never mission of the notion that government is, by its very nature, a reacting entity, not an initiative in

entity. government when lyndon johnson was before the government was responding to the marches from selma to montgomery. but the law was written on that 40 mile route. al: that march took place two weeks after bloody sunday and was led by dr. martin luther king. today a lot of americans know dr. king was a great orator. they have hurt the speeches. what kind of leader was he? vernon: well, he was strategic. he was courageous. he understood that we could not do it alone. he wanted blacks, whites, he wanted the entire community doing it, but he also knew that confrontation was necessary.

and that is what selma was. al: who was in nexen, and what is his significant? vernon: ed nixon goes -- who was e.d. nixon? vernon: he was one of the unsung heroes of the civil rights movement. when rosa parks was arrested, she did not call martin luther king. she called net than, who was the president of the local branch of the naacp. that is who rosa parks called. and the lawyer that e.d. nixon called was a white lawyer, he was the first lawyer to see after rosa parks. and then after she sat down, got arrested, and the movement begin

to go, it was e.d. nixon who understood that this circumstance was beyond his capabilities, and it was e.d. nixon who called the new pastor at dexter avenue church and said reverend king, this is e.d. net and, president of the local branch of the naacp, and we need a leader who is colleged. he understood that the circumstance that they were confronting was beyond what he thought his capabilities were and so he called martin. so martin said to him brother nixon, i would have to think about what you are asking me to do. and nixon responded, you best have thought about it by 8:00

because the meeting is in dexter avenue church. the point being that e.d. nixon's power at the local level in montgomery was strong enough that he could convene a meeting at dexter avenue church without having to discuss it with the pastor, because his relationship was with the chairman of the deacon board. al: an essential venue to the movement really was the churches. vernon: everything in the black community, if you think about it, started in the church. a college was founded in a baptist church. they have a relationship with a baptist church, the visible church. so the church -- the eps couple

church. so the church has been the grounding place for our community. it was the gathering place. it was the one place, even in slavery, that you felt free. and it was the one place, i learned a long time ago, where when you got to church, you were somebody. you may have been a yard man all week, but when you got to st. paul ame church, in my case, in atlanta, you were somebody. whether you are a chauffeur or dormant or whatever. so the church has always been the key to our success in the black community. al: vernon, you later became the head of the voter education project. were alabama and mississippi the worst, or was it the same everywhere? vernon: they were the worst, but

that does not say that georgia and south carolina were good. they were all bad. and they were all resistant. nobody gave in. al: as we have this 50th anniversary of that historic march and historic day, one of the contexts in the movie selma you and some of your associates had bought copies of that movie and distributed it. vernon: i was recruited by bill lewis, my partner at lazard, the chairman of american express, and a group of friends, decided that young people, high school kids, should see "selma."i agree .

my daughter right here in washington called and said send your check, so i supported new york and washington. and every one of my nine grandchildren has either seen it or will see it, and we will discuss it, because it is a watershed moment in black history and the civil rights movement and they ought to understand it. it's not a perfect movie. it's not the ultimate documentation of the challenges of the civil rights movement but the message primarily is -- in my judgment -- that there are many edmund pettus bridge is yet to be crossed. so we ought to understand the first one. al: but you knew personally two of the central diggers and that, martin luther king and lyndon

baines johnson. did it look like the king that you knew? vernon: the johnson that was per trade was not the johnson that i knew. al: but it was king? no movie is perfect. the only point about the johnson thing it depicted him as a reluctant supporter of the voting rights act. vernon: i do not believe that. al: that he became a total convert. vernon: he understood what he was doing. he called richard russell and said we are going to past this bill. and democrats are going to lose the south as a result. look at the senate, the house and johnson was right. but he did not back down. al: the other thing that has occurred in recent years and we are talking about the 1965 voting rights act, it was captured brilliantly in the

movie when the woman played by oprah winfrey when into the judge who ever was there and said read the preamble to the constitution. how many county judges are there in alabama? and then he said, name them. but the voting rights act made a huge difference. today we look at legislatures, texas, north carolina, where they are coming back. may i tell you a story? wilcox county, alabama. it's the first day in wilcox county that the voting rights act is being implemented. 2000 black people are in line at 7:00 in the morning. in that line is a 90-year-old white man, dressed in his -- 90-year-old black man, dressed in his sunday best.

at about noon time he gets up to the registrar, and the registrar says, you are 90 years old. the old man said yes. well, if you are 90 years old, what took you so long to get here? and the old man said, what took me so long to get here is my he all my life, to never get in the way of trouble coming. in the registrar said, if that is your he, why are you here today -- if that is your philosophy, why are you here today? and the old man said, i'm here today because trouble ain't a -coming like it used to be. you could get shot, you could lose your job. many other things could happen to you. but trouble was not coming because of the voter rights act. now the problem is today if you

look at the alabama case and what the supreme court did to the voting provision the trouble is coming again, like it used to did. voter identification laws in the north and in the south. al: do you think there is a racial motive in some of that? vernon: absolutely. and some of these republicans have actually said that. in michigan -- not michigan, but pennsylvania, and in florida. they have admitted it al:. al:and these mobile -- they have admitted it. al: when you're reflecting at home or wherever you are these days, what do you think about? vernon: i am thinking that that was terrific. and then i listen to what they are doing now in voter

registration and citizenship education, and i see what is happening in staten island in ferguson missouri, and i'm saying, trouble is coming like it used to did, and we have come a long way, but there is still a journey to go. al: one of the reasons we've come a long ways because of people like vernon jordan. thank you for being with us. we will be back in just a moment. >> felicity huffman is here. you know her from her image award-winning role in "desperate housewives or go her latest project takes her back to tv and those of us who watch it are very happy about that. she plays a woman seeking justice after the murder of her son. it is called a transient

exploration of expertly -- phase, race and gender identity . i'm pleased to have felicity huffman at this table. welcome. i'm so glad to talk to you. felicity: i'm so happy to be here. gayle: i intended to watch maybe half the episode to get a sense of it. before i knew it, i had watched all four of them that were sent to me. i was blown away. felicity: i was so excited about what i saw on the screen. i had never seen anything like it. gayle: ryu attracted to this role because it was so opposite

and different from "desperate housewives"? felicity: i love the script, and then i had to think, is this like lynette? i wanted to make sure the legacy of lynette didn't get in the way of john ridley's storytelling. you don't want to say, there is lynette as a police officer. gayle: i totally forgot all about lynette, and i followed "desperate housewives" from beginning to end. number one, she is a mom who is seeking justice for her son. our son is murdered, and i felt her pain. i was tussling back-and-forth with that. talk about the character. felicity: the way i had to get

into the character, as an actor you always want to find something you can indoors. you have to fall in love with her character. gayle: do you have to fall in love with the character before you can play it? felicity: for me, i do. you cannot judge her character. you have to be your character. she is a mother and she is seeking justice for her son. that is a noble motive patient -- motivation. the way it manifests in the world is offputting. but i wanted to make sure that you at least understood her, so maybe you could have empathy for her, so you could see her as a full human being. this is why people are uncomfortable with her, because she is harsh. you can have understanding for her, but you might not want to have dinner with her. anytime you can put a person in a box, you can label them. you are a republican, a lesbian, a racist.

it stops us from seeing them as a human being. it is a relief, because you are other. john really has major that none of these characters you can put in a box. you have to experience them as human beings, and that might bring up some discomfort. in your case, you don't know if you like her, you struggle. gayle: this is the thing, race makes people uncomfortable. it tackles race from many different layers. her son is murdered and she portrays him as a perfect, all american married to the perfect all-american wife. we later learned there are some chinks in that marriage. then the suspect is a hispanic male. barb's first line out of her mouth is, is he illegal? she instantly went there.

felicity: and she says "those people" a lot. first i had to find out if those people actually existed and indeed, they do. she does say that, but if you ask bar, are you a raise this -- a racist? she would say no, im a realist, and i am a pragmatist. that is what possibly the new face of racial prejudice is. it's not so overt anymore that you go, those people are below par, those people are stupid. it is subtle. it is people going, well, what percentage of illegals do crimes like this in modesto? gayle: she also makes the point she says this is a hate crime. why isn't someone looking at this for my son, this is a hate

crime. that was a different tactic that i thought was interesting. felicity: it was a different tactic, and to tell you the truth, i think she might have a point. in the same way that in the pilot, there's a twist at the end, of suddenly my son who is murdered, who i hold up as a military hero and a patriot, suddenly they go, he might have been not so good. so everyone goes over, well, he was a bad guy and that's why he got murdered. that's bigotry in and of itself. because he might have been a bad guy, it's ok that he got murdered? gayle: there is going to be a beginning, middle, and end on this ticket or storyline. felicity: there are 11 episodes. it is an anthology, a closed story. so you won't see it again. gayle: at the end of the

anthology, will it continue in another form or is this it for you in this particular "american crime"? felicity: abc went out on a limb for this. network television has never done anything like this. if it does well, i think they will ask john to do another year, but a totally different story with different characters, and maybe some of the same actors. gayle: talk about working with him. he has done a lot of very important writing. what was it like working with him and executing his vision? what did he say he wanted to happen on the screen? felicity: he has a very clear vision. when i kept coming to him and saying, is barb a racist?

is she a bigot? how come she says these things? he would never answer these things. she is there to get justice for her son. she said the wrong thing, ok let's keep moving forward. at the same time, he was very collaborative. he was willing to listen. he was willing to say, how do you want to do it? i have strong feelings about how barb would look, and he was fine with that. gayle: i thought she was very -- is "mousy" the word? >> internally, she is parched. she just wanted to come in under the radar. she doesn't want you to notice her hands, her hair.

just kind of under the radar, so she can come in and get her job done. and he was fine with that. gayle: let me just say, you look very glamorous tonight. barb looks nothing like that on the show. they me take you back to "desperate housewives." felicity: i loved it. i loved every season of it. i felt really grateful for that job. every week i felt like, here is a scene that challenges me. every week i would go wow, i really blew that scene, but maybe i can do it better next week. i loved the feeling of community. you see the same people and you have a family. it was just a godsend. we were paid really well. it just doesn't get any better than that. i could have had nicer clothes but that was it. gayle: but she was always the

sane one. she was very stable, but she had kind of a crazy side that would manifest it dealt from time to time. when i look back on that -- i saw you on "frasier" back in the day, and then " transamerica" back in 2005, when you were nominated for an oscar. illicitly: i have to give kudos to duncan, who wrote the script. as i started working on the script in getting coached by these wonderful women who were transgendered, they were my heroes. he was sort of before the waves. i remember going to "desperate

housewives" and saying, we need a transgendered character. it just was not on their radar. gayle: nobody was talking about that. back then, it would have seemed very on and strange. now i think people are at least open to hearing about it and wanting to know, what is it exactly? felicity: it is wonderful. the less things that divide us, the better. gayle: i'm curious about william h macy. he is her husband. what does the h stand for? felicity: hall. gayle: we saw you at one of the awards shows.

you were described as the adorable couple. they clearly care about each other, they are still hot for each other. i thought, what a nice thing to say, after so many years of marriage. i thought that was a good thing. when he said, flicka, i'm looking forward to going home and sleeping with you. felicity: i sister called and said, that was really inappropriate. gayle: i thought it was a nice thing. who called you to say it was inappropriate? felicity: a couple of my sisters were like, what was that about? gayle: then you tweeted later "looking forward to sleeping with you to william h macy."

felicity: i get to sleep with him all night and then wake up with him. gayle: i think people need to see more of that. i sit here as a divorced person and think, i like how they do that. but you did not accept his first or second proposal. felicity: if you apply the statistics of marriage to any other institution, when something like 60% of first marriages fail you would say we have to revamp the postal system. i also feel like women often disappear in marriage. i didn't want to disappear. so that's why i said no. gayle: but he was persistent.

five years later he came back, and you said yes. even though i'm divorced, i still believe in the institution of marriage. i know that good marriages exist. i know that it is possible. i think it is so good to talk about it when there is one that is special. felicity: why do you believe in the institution of marriage? gayle: because i think the family unit matters. i think that fame and fortune even if you don't have fame and fortune, there's going to come a point and i'm not talking about you specifically, what about that guy -- or the worst question of all, are they still alive? if you do it right, you will never be a trivia question. it always starts with your

family. whatever your family looks like, i just think having a strong family foundation is a very important. felicity: do you have to be married? because you are legally required to be there after you get married. gayle: as i have gotten older, i have relaxed a little bit on that. now i just think you have to be in a loving, kind, responsible relationship. that's why when i hear what you and will you make macy do and how you operate, i just think it is a beautiful thing. felicity: the best thing i ever did was married bill macy. it's not like we have an answer on how to be married. gayle: do you all have a rule about, you don't talk about work in the bedroom? felicity: we grew up in the

theater together. when you're doing a play, and before you have kids, it is all encompassing. it's all you inc. about. -- all you think about. we decided once we get into bed, you cannot talk about acting. we would have to get up and talk about it. now that we are so old, we actually talk about it. gayle: the atlantic theater company is celebrating 30 years. what does it mean to you? felicity: it is in our bones. we have the same core people that started it. we have a huge group of actors and playwrights and designers and stage managers. it is a place where -- it's like a clubhouse with really cool people that do great work. it supports the bravest, most

dedicated artists. gayle: do you preferred the theater to film and movies? felicity: i thought, friends don't let friends do theater. i got so used to people judging me from the comfort of their very own couch. in the theater they are right here. gayle: you can feel everything. felicity: right now i'm doing a play in l.a. that goes up in april. so we will see. gayle: you have called this the golden age of television. what do you mean? felicity: a bunch of years ago when independent movies first hit, it was this an answer of people could get their stories told in they could get wonderful actors. it would go and see them. there were all these venues and film festivals.

now there is a glut on the market and it is hard to get your indie movie made an even harder to get people to see it because there is so much out there. television used to play second fiddle, but it doesn't anymore. gayle: you feel that it is no longer this second cousin? i see really great things on television. felicity: people don't go just one place to watch. whether it's netflix or amazon or hbo or abc. abc is courageous enough to go we are going to do something new we have never done before because people are hungry for holiday on tv. they are ready for things that push the envelope. gayle: a few, felicity. -- thank you, felicity. ♪

charlie: tony robbins is here. he has help people develop strategies to enhance the personal and professional eyes for more than 30 years. he has advised everyone am serena williams to bill clinton. his new book takes on new septic, money. and to have tony robbins back at this table. why did you choose to do money?

tony: my wife and i have been obsessed with finding answers to increase the quality of people's lives as quickly as possible. there is your relationship, your career, your body and energy and there is money. in 2008, people were losing their homes right and left. i had a unique privilege. i coached one of the top 10 financial traders in the world. he has not lost money and 21 straight years. he writes to me what has happened. every three months i see him in person for a session. after 20 -- 21 years of that, i have gotten exposed to a lot.

i thought if i could take everything of learned from him and interview 50 of the smartest financial minds in the world how they could still retire and have amazing projects -- charlie: who did you talk to? >> i've talked to the best of the best. a large hedge fund might be $50 billion. he had a $5 billion network 10 years ago. i asked him and others carl icahn, i asked each of them.

the average interview was three hours. if you could not give any of your money to your family are kids, what would be your strategy? what would be the portfolio what would be the approach you would use? the result is the fundamental steps that anyone can take. charlie: go through the seven steps. >> most people are looking for some day when they had this big hit and they never tap the power of compounding that we all know about. if you look at people that won the lottery or athletes who made up urgent, so many of them end up broke later in life. if you look at a driver for ups, he literally started, never made more than $14,000 a year, but by the time he retired he had $70 million. he gave away $35 million while he was alive. how did he do that? you got to invest, you got to do

the first step you've got to become an owner instead of a consumer. his friend said to him, if the government tax to another 20%, you would scream and yell and have to pay it. he took 20% of his $14,000, put it in an investment count didn't touch it, and by retirement it compounded at $70 million. you have to understand how to become an insider. what you don't know will hurt you. as a quick example, insiders know you're not going to beat the market. 96% do not match the market over 10 years. they fail. only 4% make it. if we went to go play blackjack in vegas, you get to face cards. you have an 80% chance of

getting an ace. this has become a soliloquy, but it's so important. do you know what you pay in fees on your investments, your financial funds? the majority of folks will not be able to tell you. president obama is trying to do something about it. if you had 1% versus 3% compounded over 30 years at 7% it's almost $600,000. the person with 3% fees will have 300,000 more. you have to become an insider. charlie: i do want to go through it because i think it is

important, and people are interested. tony: you have to make the game winnable. most people don't start because it is overwhelming. maybe read the paper and think you have to have 10 times your income for financial freedom. where are you going to get a 10% return in the world you are in today? so people are misled. i tell people, think of it this way. what if you could have these five things covered for the rest of your life without working. your home is covered utilities all the food for your family all transportation. if you still work for other things, but those five things are paid for, that would be incredible. financial freedom is not not working. it's not having to work. statistics show that if you retire at 55, you have an 89%

greater chance of dying in the first five years after retiring that if you retired at 65. most successful people i know are never going to retire. charlie: number four. tony: you have to put yourself in a position where you make the most important investment decision of your life. that is not buying apple stock or real estate. what all the top investors agree on is asset allocation is everything. i asked david swenson chief investment officer at yale. yale to 50 years to get to a billion-dollar investment. he said there's only three buttons or dials, security selection, what you pick timing, and asset allocation. you are always going to be wrong

at times. asset allocation is how you protect yourself. let's return, but it's protected. they all gave me their formulas for doing that. none of this was my ideas. visit is, you have to create an income for life. if you ask most people, what are they investing for? they cannot tell you. but it is income. the only thing that can change quality-of-life long-term is income. ask its -- assets can drop in a short time. so you need income. i put 12 of the interviews in the book to show you the different ways people invest and what they have in common. finally, it's just do it, enjoy it, and share it.

if you spend it on things, you don't get a lot of joy. experiences last. when it touches you the most, it is giving to other people. those you love, and even people you don't know. that's one of the reasons i wrote the book. i saw congress passing a budget that cut food stamps by billions of dollars. my family was going to have thanksgiving as nothing. when i was 17, -- when i was writing the book i thought, what if i could feed as many people as i have done in my whole life? i reached out to feeding america and said if i give you all the profits of this book, how many could you feed? at least 10 million. charlie: how does it feed them?

>> feeding america delivers food . charlie: so you feed these people in terms of everything they will eat over a year. tony: i was one of those families, saw one to get back on a large scale. right now we are at 71 kelly -- 71 million people this year. charlie: how has your life changed in the last 10 years? tony: you interviewed me when i was 40, and i just turned 55 a few days ago. i was thinking about how incredible -- the privilege of being able to reach more leaders and 100 countries around the world. in the death of my relationships, which is what i value most has increased geometrically as well. i'm driven to see people light

up, take control of their lives. and then just the friendships and family that i have are everything. charlie: there was a fortune magazine issue how tony robbins went from infomercial pitch man to c-suite coach. how do you explain that? what happened? how did you get to become the person that a lot of very powerful people with great talent turn to to help them understand how to maximize their life? tony: if you do anything every day with total passion and your focus is to do more for others than anyone else is possibly doing and hold yourself to that standard you're going to get insights and strategies. when i get the phone call and

serena williams is burning down and i can turn her around literally in one session. i don't share those conversations. the point of the matter is, when you're able to talk to folks of that caliber the word spreads. driven, hungry guy who is always looking to find better answers read i am never satisfied. i usually have cutting-edge tools. charlie: is it primarily about a specific issue at their life at that time, such as impeachment? something that's driving me crazy? or is it a larger sense of a life plan and a sense of a life with purpose? tony: some people have outrun

their vision. they have achieved everything they ever dreamed up times 10, and they are depressed. we all need a compelling future. without that, we drop all. that's why doesn't matter how much money you make how many people love us, how many oscars you have. i always tell people, happiness comes with one word, progress. if you not making progress, you are not happy. people are hungry because that is to they are. they are looking for the answers. or they have had an event and they are not performing. they have had a significant challenge in their sports or their business or their life, and they need to change it right now. charlie: is there only one tony robbins in the world? in other else, who else -- in other words, who else is in the world that you are in? tony: i was not a motivator or therapist.

coaching -- i was on larry king 20 years ago. larry was, you are not a coach you are not a sports coach. it became a term of art. what i did is based on results. today, you can go anywhere and go to class and they will give you a certificate and you can go out and coach people. i look at how you produce results. i can take the athlete or politician and turn them around. i can take the athlete multibillionaire, or the at-home mom and turn them around. charlie: are there essential principles that you know that apply to these situations? tony is affected by couple of

things. even when people do things that we think are crazy, like trying to commit suicide. i always tell people, the biggest problem in life is not drugs, alcohol cocaine. it is the need for problems. human beings have these needs. we need to feel uncertain, we need to feel for writing. we need to feel significant unique, and special. we need to feel like we contribute. everybody specializes in a couple of those needs. if your top need is certainty and people change the game, you get really stressed out. if your number one thing is significance, you are always measuring whether or not you are number one. if you are loved driven, you will be connecting all the time. i tried to find out what is the most driving wars, and what is keeping them from fulfilling that -- the most driving force.

mib something in their family or environment. charlie: can you help them redefine what ought to be there driving horse? tony: i can bring it to their awareness so they can make that change. the firemen who went into 9/11 who were willing to give their lives, probably knew they were going to give their lives. what makes a human being do that? significance. to feel like i died a worthy death, i lived a life that saved other people. the people that flew the planes into the buildings also were driven by significance. if i do this, i go to heaven and i am a martyr and my family is honored. water of the rules for meeting those needs? you can be significant by being a nice person. you can be significant by being the most intense, mean individual humanly possible.

people find different ways to meet their needs. i help them figure out what those are and how to close the gap to where they want to be what they want to be. charlie: not just improving on your talent, not just being able to score more if you are an athlete even no victories are the point. tony: i went from dirt poor, not knowing what to do, not being a businessman, to running some billion-dollar businesses. charlie: i got that, we have talked about that many times. i'm talking about today. tony: what i'm saying is, in those situations, i have people that i want to learn from. charlie: so you tapped into their success?

tony: peter guber bought the dodgers. 15 years ago when i was trying to decide do i go through divorce, do are really want to initiate this? i went to people to say, how do i do this? charlie: it's the kind of stuff that people like to talk about the idea of, how do you maximize your life potential? the idea of, how do i find the perfect balance in my life? how do i fulfill a life of? meaning david brooks is writing about meaning. rather than looking at balance sheets and understanding

competitive advantage in the world. tony: they are more comfortable with the competitive advantage. the people i'm dealing with clients, friends of mine, have been my clients and friends for decades. i learn constantly. when you have somebody that is 15 or 20 years ahead of you, they have that cycle of living and going through what aging does for you. you look at life with different perspectives and different levels of impact. the people i'm dealing with at this stage of life are very much interested in what is most valuable. they have entered that stage in their 70's and 80's where they have looked back to see what life was about four of them.

those are the people i like to spend time with, because they go deep. i'm not a surface guy. charlie: it's great to have you here. secrets from the world's greatest financial minds. they have shown by success in by the quality of their lives that they represent that. thank you, tony. tony: thanks for having me. ♪

john: i'm john heilemann. mark: i'm mark halperin. and with all due respect to hillary clinton, you need one phones work, one phone for personal stuff, and one for candy. ♪ a lot of candy. on the show tonight, there were 10 million reporters committee putting the turks at hillary's hallway press conference today. if you missed it, here's one of the most important to she gave on why she used personal e-mail exclusively while she was secretary of state. hillary clinton: i wanted to use