>> from our studios in new york city, this is "charlie rose." ethan: good evening. i'm ethan bronner. i'm a managing editor at bloomberg news. i'm filling in for charlie rose

who is on assignment. joining me now is geoffrey robertson, a distinguished british barrister. he has argued many landmark cases in human rights, as well as criminal and media law. he is currently part of the legal team representing armenia at the european court of human rights. the case will determine whether denying the genocide of armenians under ottoman rule is a criminal offense in switzerland. this year marks the centennial of the mass killings during world war i. he is also the author of the book, "an inconvenient genocide: who now remembers the armenians?" welcome. geoffrey: hi, ethan. ethan: the topic, i want to divide it into two parts. one is what happened and the other is why it matters. why don't we start with what happened nearly 100 years ago next month? geoffrey: in 1915, april the 24th, the istanbul authorities -- constantinople, it was called

then -- rounded up the armenian intellectuals, leaders and killed them and that was the beginning of a genocide which took over half the armenian race. the turks now say they only killed about 800,000, but probably over one million were killed. more than half of the armenian people. the men were generally shot if they were over 12. the women, children and old men were put on 500-mile marches across the desert to places we only know now because they are occupied by isis. they died of typhus, dysentery. they were attacked. they were raped -- the women were taken off as converts.

their property was expropriated. they were forced to march. the abandoned property laws because they were not coming back. this was genocide as we now know it. ethan: it was a term that didn't exist until the 1930's? geoffrey: it was invented by a brilliant polish jewish lawyer called rafael limpkin. and, he was obsessed by what happened to the armenians. the massacres, the ethnic cleansing. ethan: a polish jew in the 1930's. did he sense something was happening? geoffrey: he started -- in 1922, there was something called operation nemesis that got the main perpetrator, the guy who was the hitler, the ottoman hitler was shot in berlin and put on trial. the assassin was acquitted after the jury heard of the horror that he had gone through with

his family being killed, watching his mother being raped and so forth. the evidence came from lutheran missionaries, german generals being there and horrified with what the ottoman turks were doing. limpkin thought this was wrong. this is the armenian story, but this is no way for the world to go. we need a law that can overleap the national sovereignty boundaries and say no matter how much you are ordered by your government to kill a particular race or religion, there is an international law that will eventually put you on trial. ethan: if a nation killed its own, there was no legal framework to try them. geoffrey: not until nuremberg. that was the beginning of international law.

the british, when they won in 1918, took 68 of the main perpetrators to put them on trial and realized they could not try them because there was this sovereignty idea that no prince or head of state can be held liable for killing his own people. ethan: we have this irony which is this man invents this term which applies to this event and now the whole debate is whether this term applies to this event. geoffrey: that is right. we had a genocide convention in 1948. rafael limpkin, the author of it, was inspired by the armenian genocide, but now, turkey makes all sorts of threats about the genocide. ethan: there is this question of

freedom of speech and expression in europe versus the united states. it is illegal to deny genocide. let's start with the turks' view. why are they so horrified by this term? geoffrey: the "g" word sends shivers down states' spines because it is against international law, there is the possibility of compensation. ronald reagan ratified the genocide convention. america does not ratify many international laws, but on this one. america was a bit nervous in rwanada. america and britain lied in the security council to pretend it was not genocide when it was because they feared they'd have to do something about it. turkey has come up with this idea that it was military necessity to deport all the armenians. ethan: they assert it was in the middle of a war and it was complicated.

geoffrey: they say it was military necessity to get rid of the possible fifth column. you know, deporting women and children and old men across a desert as they die is not necessary for any military. if you've got anyone who is a possible traitor, you can intern them, detain them, prosecute them, but that is not what they were doing. ethan: do you think the standards have changed? in other words, because we live in a post-holocaust world today, we have much greater sensitivity toward what happened. not by any circumstances what happened was ok, but the question is whether it was so unusual compared with today. geoffrey: i think limpkin's genius was to identify racial and religious passions as particularly igniting. the armenian genocide is important to study. there was a turkification

campaign. there was all sorts of nationalism. the changing of christian names to muslim names. this is a pattern we can see recurring in bangladesh, guatemala, rwanada. i could go on. indonesia in the 1960's. the killing of the chinese. ethan: the fact they were christian, was that a very important part? geoffrey: a lot of them were killed. the young turkish government obtained imam whom they got to pronounce a fatwa on christians and suddenly realized they had to exclude germans because germans were their allies. ethan: this happened, now what does it mean for the turks to acknowledge -- when we say

compensation could occur, who makes that decision? geoffrey: possibly a legal decision. in the european court of rights which has already ordered turkey to compensate those thrown out of northern cyprus 50 years ago. there are still living memories. president obama a couple of years ago had tea with a genocide survivor who was 103 and the world's most famous armenian. that is -- it is still for children, grandchildren. these people live it. i'm an australian actually and we were the reason we were on the anzac beaches on gallipoli and my great uncle was shot by a turkish sniper. i don't remember him much because he volunteered to fight the turkish sniper. it is different with victims of

an international crime. i think this is not a tragedy as genocide deniers call it. it was a crime, the crime of genocide as we now call it. then we called it a crime against humanity. it has been unrequited. i think today there are 2000 churches in turkey that had been expropriated by the ottomans. they should be restored. ethan: on the one hand, we have the turks. they are the ones being accused of having done this and they say no, that is not what happened. there is a geopolitical issue as well. the united states government the british government have not in fact been willing to insist that this is what happened because of their relationship with turkey. geoffrey: because turkey is more important. president obama, when he went campaigning in 2008, said i'm a lawyer. i know it was genocide and i am

going to say it was when i am president. he doesn't ever use the "g" word. he uses the armenian word for the great catastrophe. britain, which was most active in denouncing these atrocities in 1915, suddenly when turkey became important started saying the evidence is not sufficiently unequivocal which was a beautiful british-mandarin crafted, deceitful phrase. i did a freedom of information act search and i found the memorandum explaining to ministers why this formula had to be used. it actually said turkey is neuralgic -- good word -- on this subject. our position is unethical, but the strategic and commercial

realities mean there is no other option. turkey just goes crazy and we need turkey. nato needs turkey at a time its airbases and spy bases are being used. ethan: can you imagine a need great enough to say maybe this is not so important to use the "g" word. geoffrey: i think president erdogan is faced with a lot problems with his dispute with armenia. now, he doesn't understand genocide. he says it couldn't have been genocide because there are still armenians living in turkey. he doesn't understand that genocide means wiping out part of a race. you don't have to find an order. there was no order to kill the jews. what is fascinating is to look at the language that was used by the turks and the language that

was used by the memorandum. they were not deporting, they were relocating or evacuating the jews. that was based on the language the ottomans used of the armenians. they did not -- their laws of abandoned property. property was not abandoned. these same euphemisms, the genocide euphemisms. ethan: let's assume that you are right, that this unquestionably was genocide. the next question is why should it be against the law to deny it? we are not used to that in the united states. geoffrey: of course, you are not, but you have never been occupied by the nazis. you have never had your population extinguished. in europe, it is a different matter. the french, the belgians were

occupied. the germans and the austrians did the occupying. that is why we have this peculiar european idea that it could be wrong to and against the law for people to deny the existence of gas chambers and so forth. if you deny one genocide and that is against the law, why not if you deny another genocide? should that not be against the law? it was a difficult case when this crazy nationalist turk who loves challenging genocide denial laws. he goes throughout europe saying the armenian genocide is a lie and hopes to be convicted. for me, who has been brought up more in the american tradition

which is still alive in britain, where you draw the line is against the guy who shouts fire in a crowded theater. we argued, as a basis for a sort of european-wide law, that you should only prosecute genocide deniers where they do real harm, where their intention is to vilify a minority community. that was the distinction the court had to make. ethan: that is why you are taking this case against him? geoffrey: we are not taking the case. our position on behalf of the armenian government was to set a standard to say this is the standard and you apply it to the facts of the case one way or another. but the reason we had intervened was that the first court decision was incredibly silly.

it said, well, there may not have been an armenian genocide because there were no gas chambers. it was not as well proven as the holocaust. but, of course, there are photographs, laws. the deportation law, the abandoned property law. ethan: what about the turks also? under erdogan, there has been a kind of liberalizing attitude toward attitudes of minorities. he did sort of say a terrible thing happened, but he never apologized for it and has not called it genocide. is that right? geoffrey: this confounds every genocide denier. you say to them if it was not genocide, it was a crime against humanity. they have no answer because undoubtedly it was. genocide is one genus of a crime against humanity. ethan: turkey has not used that

phrase. geoffrey: turkey's entry into the european union may depend on this if erdogan can bring himself to acknowledge it was a crime against humanity. to give back some of the churches and allow them to be used as christian churches. and, maybe make some symbolic gesture. i've suggested the great mystical mountain, noah's ark. it overshadows the armenian capital. that would be a wonderful gesture of reconciliation. ethan: you are not calling for compensation yourself? geoffrey: i think there should be compensation for those who can trace their property which was expropriated. yes, if you can trace it, and some can. there has already been some actions over insurance policies. ethan: tell me, how active has turkey been in trying to deny this?

geoffrey: i think they have spent billions on it. they've hired a man who, before he was a lobbyist was a congressman, who was quite vocal in saying it was armenian genocide and i was being paid to set up propaganda exercises to say it was not. as the centennial approaches on april 24, there has been -- there is actually, the government is holding a diversification event. they are trying to distract attention -- the turkish government -- by having an international celebration or commemoration of gallipoli. they are getting the australian prime minister, the new zealand prime minister. gallipoli is sort of sacred. even the young prince charles is going. ethan: there are human rights groups that are setting up some

commemoration in istanbul. geoffrey: i think there are human rights groups very much focusing on the death of dink. there are a lot of liberal turks and they are getting more courageous. at the funeral, a lot of young turkish people held up banners saying we are all armenians. ethan: what are things you would recommend for people to do to affect attitudes inside turkey? geoffrey: i think it is a matter for the turkish leadership to start explaining. of course, you go back to the textbooks and to what kids are taught. at the moment, they are taught all the arguments for refuting the genocide. they are given prizes to write

essays that explain it was not genocide. i think that has to stop and there needs to be an element of truth telling. it was described as a shameful act. i think that kind of information has to be allowed into turkish textbooks. ethan: geoffrey robertson, thank you very much. thank you for joining us. geoffrey: thank you. ♪ gayle: vijay iyer is here. he is a jazz pianist, a composer. he is also a professor of music at harvard. in february, he released an album called "break stuff." "the guardian" calls it this -- "a dizzying pinnacle of contemporary jazz multitasking." in the words of charlie rose i'm pleased to have vijay iyer at the table. i called wynton marsalis about you. vijay: is that so? gayle: do you know him? vijay: a little bit.

gayle: he said -- i said i am talking to him tomorrow and he goes, he is very smart. i love him. i respect him and i look forward to playing with him one day. that is what he said. vijay: yeah, we have had a couple of opportunities that were thwarted by various external forces, but it will happen. gayle: he said the thing about you is this cat can really play. vijay: that's very nice. that is very high praise. gayle: let's get your back story for those who are not informed. you started playing the violin at the age of three. you took violin lessons up for 15 years. true? vijay: it took me that long to quit. [laughter] gayle: no. there's something about the violin that you liked and after 15 years, you switched over to the piano. vijay: i think it was pretty

early when it started. my sister started on the piano the same time i started on the violin. they had this banged up piano in the house. as a child, my first impulse was to bang on it. gayle: you never had any lessons. you were able to pick it up and you were able to play it. is that what it means? vijay: it took a long time. partly through the process of studying violin and the way you teach a three-year-old to play is initially by ear. that is how it should be. that is what music is -- sound we make with our bodies. in the west, we tend to think of it as mediated by sheet music, but it is still something we do. the connection with the ear is the most important one for a musician to have. i started learning by ear with the violin as part of the training -- it is the suzuki method.

because of that, i think that gave me some kind of perspective or some initial understanding of how i might put melodies together on the piano. i just started taking things out. through trial and error, very slowly and organically, almost accidentally, things started coming together. it was never really anything official for me growing up until when i was in high school, i started playing keyboards in a rock band. by then, i could play rock piano -- whatever that is. gayle: what drew you to the piano from the violin? at some point, the piano became priority for you. what was it? vijay: so, when i started -- when i was in high school, we had a pretty good music program. it is in the suburb of

rochester, new york. the school had a very good music program. this was in an era where a lot of public schools were having their music and arts programs defunded, so it was really nice to be in a place where that was still valued. they let me into the jazz ensemble even though i did not really know anything about it. i was improvising on the piano. that is what i had always done. so, the director said, you can get around the instrument, but you don't really know the language of the music. here's the phone number of a local jazz pianist. that guy gave me about three lessons on some very basic things about how music is put together. gayle: i heard that thelonious

monk was a big influence on you. vijay: basically, andy loaned me some records. and, i noticed that one of the recurring compositional credits -- one was a red garland record, one was a keith jarrett record -- a lot of people were playing the songs by this guy named thelonious monk. who is this guy? we had a really nice local library that had a lot of music. so, i guess, i followed my nose and started checking things out in detail. when all roads led to thelonious monk, i finally started listening to his music. it was so full of mystery to me. it didn't really sound like anybody else. even people who claimed him as an influence, they didn't sound like him playing his music. the way he would play was not

even the way that i was, i thought you were supposed to play. there was so much space and danger, you know? gayle: when most people think of him, they think he is so deeply rooted in the blues and the black experience and the church. wynton says you have this unique ability to take that music and make it your own, translated into your own. i think the word he used was there are pathways used to take the bridge from here to there with the eastern and hip-hop and you infuse a lot of stuff in your music. vijay: part of the -- my point of entry into this music -- it was not just from listening to records. i was nurtured by elders in the community and particularly in the african-american community. you are supposed to be yourself. you learn from what has come

before, from the masters, and you study them very carefully. not with the aim of trying to be like them or sound exactly like them. you want to be like them by being yourself because that is what they did. that is how music came to be. gayle: how do you describe your music or sound? vijay: i start with what i learned from monk. we can do a whole show just on that. you know, he had a very personal relationship with the piano. you could hear him kind of interacting with it. you can hear his body on the instrument. you can hear the hands in action. you can hear him experimenting. you could hear him responding to what the instrument does pushing the instrument beyond what it could do. and, that exploratory mentality with the instrument rang true for me because that is how i started playing, by just banging on it and making it shake, making it resonate.

little by little, finding things that vibrated on the instrument and internally for me. gayle: how does it make you feel internally? i'm always fascinated by musicians who are clearly in a zone. everything else just sort of disappears because you are so in the zone with what you are doing. vijay: what we are doing is listening. that is what the zone is. you try to listen to everything and everybody in the room. not just yourself or people on stage, really trying to listen to everybody. and connect with them. it is about making that link. at some level, it is a social act. it is about empathy, communication. that is the real priority for me. if i look like -- i play with my eyes closed. it is not because i'm ignoring everybody. i'm trying to hear everybody.

gayle: you say hearing everybody and i am thinking that guy is really in the zone. i'm not the only one. the mcarthur foundation noticed. you got a genius grant. vijay: always has to stay in quotes. gayle: it is given to individuals who have shown extraordinary originality and have worked with a marked capacity for self direction. you are one of those people. i thought, wow. how are you notified? do you get a phone call? did you even think this was going to happen to you? vijay: they called me out of the blue. i didn't think it was going to happen. gayle: where were you? vijay: i was standing at the sink at my house opening a can of salmon. gayle: ok. [laughter] vijay: it was really romantic. gayle: so, you say hello? vijay: first, i noticed it was a chicago number.

i wondered who in chicago would call me right now? i had a couple of ideas but that was not one of them. you know, in the past, i had been in correspondence with the foundation on behalf of others. this is part -- it is a secret but they reach out to people and ask what do you think about this guy or woman? are he or she deserving? gayle: what does the voice on the other end say? vijay: they say are you sitting down? i said no. it was cecelia conrad. i knew of her. she is pretty well known as the helm of the organization. so, i guess as soon as i realized it was her, knowing her affiliation, i thought they don't usually call when they want something from me. so, i sat down and yeah -- gayle: it is huge because it

comes with an award of $625,000 which they say you can do, spend anyway you like. vijay: that is true. gayle: is it impolite to ask you what you did with that $625,000? vijay: well, i should say that the way it works is they pay you quarterly for five years. what it amounts to today is a middle-class salary for five years. the fact is, especially for artists, most artists are living in poverty or something like it. or just on the verge. when something like that drops it is a big deal. it is kind of seismic. gayle: seismic is such a great word. vijay: that is how i felt and how it felt to others. i have known -- many of my good friends have received the award. finally, one of my mentors received it last year.

previously, george lewis, jason moran -- gayle: wow, ok. i didn't realize it was handed out over time. do you use it to live on? vijay: the interesting confluence of events was that that was also the same time i started working at harvard. the same exact time. the award began in january of 2014. that is when i started working at harvard, too. suddenly, yeah, my whole life is different. gayle: in a really good way. let's talk about at harvard because you describe yourself as a reluctant educator. [laughter] vijay: i guess i did say that. gayle: a reluctant educator. this is a new thing at harvard for you -- a new position that they have never really done for anybody. you are the first.

vijay: it is a new endowed chair they sought to fill partly because they are trying to increase the role of the arts on campus. the president -- this is part of her initiative and what will be her legacy as president. it is to really put that in the middle of everything. put arts at the center of the campus experience and really think about community and dialogue and arts and service as something larger. gayle: i know we don't have a student here because i would ask them. what are you hoping your students get out of your class? what are you trying to deliver to them and want them to take away? vijay: i have different kinds of students. gayle: tell me about them. vijay: many of them are

undergrads who don't necessarily know if they will have a career in music or don't want to yet but are very serious about it. most people don't go to harvard to major in music. that is not what they are groomed their whole lives to succeed in. i can kind of relate because i was an undergraduate at yale and i didn't know it was possible for me to be an artist. gayle: you got your degree in mathematics and physics. vijay: that is what i thought i might do. it was one path that seemed open to me. gayle: i don't see a connection between math and music. is there one? vijay: i don't think of it as a clear connection but i have noticed that even among my students, and my undergraduates especially, there is a cluster. there are a lot of different kinds, but there is this cluster of -- for whatever reason, it is

young men majoring in physics or applied math and are just super excellent players. then, you know, they have not really reconciled it themselves and i think i was in that category as an undergraduate. i was not super excellent. i was sort of so-so. gayle: i don't imagine you were so-so at anything. you were playing the violin at three by ear, the piano by ear. vijay: it took me a while to take the piano seriously and knowing i could and being embraced to do that. when i was an undergraduate, that was not yet apparent to me. i was kind of a late bloomer. i did not know i was going to be a musician until i was 23. i mean, i had been a musician my whole life, but in terms of making it my life path. gayle: you didn't know it would be your job. your life.

vijay: so, that is why i have that sense of -- i feel like i can relate to some of those students who might be in that same predicament, who don't really know it is available to them yet. part of what i do is just ask them what if? what if you were going to be an artist, what would that mean for you? part of what it means is to think about yourself in relation to others, not in the sense of status, but service. what are you really doing for others? gayle: you are helping them discover -- so many times in college, you are just trying to figure it out. a lot of us don't really know what the hell we are doing in college. vijay: or ever. [laughter] gayle: yeah. vijay: the way i do that is not by saying go for it, fly and be free. but, really have them rigorously examine the history of the music. and not in the stock way that

jazz history is taught, but actually try to understand why this music was made in the first place. who were these people and where were they coming from? what did they seek to accomplish and for whom? gayle: i have been looking at you on twitter. you have been re-tweeting a lot of the ferguson story. i'm curious why you would put yourself out there in that way. i was surprised to see it. vijay: hopefully, it was a pleasant surprise. gayle: it was. maybe surprise is wrong -- how about unexpected? vijay: to me, this music i'm involved in, my whole life, i have a great debt to the african-american community. it is not just in terms of my heroes like thelonious monk in the past, but also individuals in the present who have employed me and taught me. steve coleman, george lewis, roscoe mitchell, butch morris --

the list goes on. all of them -- this affects all of them. it affects the people who made this music and who continue to make it. to me, if i'm going to be involved in this area of music i better think about the people who made it, too. that seems basic to me, obvious. it does not really seem obvious to others. i guess that is what is surprising to me. it is not -- i guess you see a lot of people who don't really see those issues as connected. gayle: you see them as connected? vijay: i can't not see them that way. being a person of color in the united states, it tends to be on your mind how difference works and how difference and power intertwine. in particular for me being

involved in an artform that comes from the african-american community and me being a person who has been, who is here because of that community. i'm here because of black people, black nurturing, black love -- that is what brought me here. gayle: i'm in favor of black love. vijay: indeed. that's why i try to shine a light on these things because if somebody is going to click follow or like because i'm a musician, because they heard something that i did that they liked, i want them to also hear what resonates with me. gayle: i would like to end on your music and what you want people to get out of the music. if somebody is listening to you right now and they say they are going to get it. what do you want them to feel when they put it on? vijay: part of the act of

putting music out in the world is you are setting it free. gayle: yeah. you have no expectations? vijay: i can't force people to feel anything. gayle: what you are hoping they will feel. you put it out for a reason because you hope they will get something. vijay: i want them to feel cared for. gayle: congratulations. continued success to you. vijay: thank you. thanks for having me and for listening. gayle: charlie is not here. would you like to say something to charlie because he is working on his other job? vijay: charlie, i will see you next time. let's put it that way. gayle: there will be a next time. he will want to talk to you. thank you for coming. ♪

charlie: arlene and alan alda are here. she is a photographer and author. her latest book is called, "just kids from the bronx." it is a collection of personal memories from more than 60 bronx residents past and present. president bill clinton called it a down-to-earth inspiring book about the american promise fulfilled. arlene's husband alan alda is an award-winning actor known for his roles in "m*a*s*h," "the

west wing," and most recently, "the blacklist." in recent years, he has become a visiting professor at the alan alda center for communicating science at stony brook university. i'm pleased to have them both here. welcome. we will talk a little bit about science later, but let me talk about this book. this is your idea? arlene: yes, very much, but it happened in tandem with going back to the building in which i grew up. it had a name -- the mayflower. i went back with a guy named mickey drexler who is ceo of j.crew. i didn't know mickey when he grew up in that building. i went back with him. when we were talking, it touched me and i knew nothing about mickey's background even though he grew up in the same building. i realized at that point so many talented, interesting people came from the bronx. i know their titles, their

accomplishments and knew nothing about their backgrounds. charlie: we can repeat some of the names. al pacino. arlene: yes, al pacino. charlie: regis philbin. arlene: friend and neighbor and great tv personality. charlie: mary higgins clark. arlene: i love what mary higgins clark said. the bronx, she said, people just don't get it. they are three places in the world that have a "the" in front of their names -- the vatican, the hague and the bronx. [laughter] arlene: and then she goes on to say that all the talent that comes from the bronx and the beauty. charlie: so what happens? you go back with mickey and realize there are stories here. arlene: they are interesting stories. stories that are some of them are very dark in terms of things

that were not pleasant. some of them very surprising. i was very surprised to hear that my friend david yarnell who is a documentary filmmaker, that he grew pot in the bronx park in the 1940's. go figure. charlie: his own pot? arlene: he was selling it. he was a kid. he was 16 years old and wanted a little excitement. that was a shock. alan: didn't he have a friend who was a cab driver who sold it to jazz musicians? arlene: yeah. there were a lot of surprising things that came up. pacino was very lyrical. his use of language in describing growing up and what it was like on the rooftop with his grandfather and the various -- the sounds of the different accents of the jewish, italian

polish, german, irish accents he heard. he said he could not describe it as artfully as he would like but it was like a eugene o'neill play. it was so beautifully said and very palpable. charlie: having assembled all these people, did you go interview them? arlene: yes, first, i started with people i knew. i would go with a tape recorder. sometimes i would talk to them on the phone when it was impossible to do an in-person interview. i would tape record it. then, i would transcribe it. it was a rambling conversation because i thought the way to loosen myself up and to get good stories would be just to talk because we have things to share. so, basically, we talked

together. alan: i think it required an obsession. i did most of the male voices on the audiobook. even though i had read these stories before, when i spoke them aloud, i realized how coherent these stories were. they were playable the way an actor would have a monologue on the stage. there was something going on under the surface all the time in the stories. i don't know how you did it. arlene: these were great people and the texture and layers of meaning were really there to begin with. i got to ask the questions that came up in the course of a conversation. charlie: there was neil degrasse tyson going up onto the roof with a telescope. arlene: neil was a kid. he was born in the 1950's, 1958, i think. he described he was the only

african-american kid in his whole building. he said, what are the chances of anyone looking out their window in new york and seeing anyone on their rooftop across the way? he was up on a roof with a telescope -- he was about 12 and his father had given him a telescope as a birthday present. he had the telescope and somebody called the police. charlie: because there was an extension cord going up to the -- wasn't there? arlene: well, he had a cord snaked from the telescope to a dentist friend's apartment down below. this other person who called the police must have seen this bazooka-like thing on the roof. who knows? the police came and he completely disarmed them by showing them the craters of the moon through the telescope. they also saw he was a kid and that worked out all right. charlie: listen to this --

arlene alda graduated phi beta kappa from hunter college. received a fulbright scholarship. how does this make you feel? alan: it makes me very happy. charlie: me too. realized her dream of becoming a professional clarinetist. was it hard to give up the clarinet? arlene: i phased it out. i can't even remember palpably what it was like. my thought was, well, i could always play locally. at that point, we were in new jersey. there were a lot of good professional musicians in new jersey and i was fortunate enough to play in a little chamber group. we gave local concerts. that was great, but by then, i was already interested in photography. i think the practical side of me really took over and the photography became my new obsession.

so, basically, i've kind of phased out the clarinet little by little. i'm still lucky in that friends will ask me if i want to play some chamber music. charlie: what are you doing for these scientists? alan: about eight or nine years ago, i helped start the center for communicating science at stony brook university. we start with improvisational exercises and games. not to make them comedians or actors, but to give them this opportunity to get used to connecting to another person in a vulnerable way, an open way. when they get habituated to that, they can turn to an audience and connect with the audience as though they are co-players. they are not antagonistic toward each other. it even filters into when we teach writing after we teach the

improv, it is easier to teach the writing because they are aware of who they are writing for. charlie: this would be good for doctors, all doctors, i think. alan: we get tremendous interest from medical schools. we are teaching medical students in several places around the country. we are teaching all the incoming students in universities. a 10-hour course for the stony brook medical students and they really understand and so do scientists at large. do you know some of our best most enthusiastic players in this are senior scientists who themselves are already good communicators? they know how important it is and they want to get better and they do get better. charlie: how did you get interested in science? alan: i don't know. charlie: did somebody come to you and say we want you to host this program? alan: i was thrilled when they wanted me to host "scientific american frontiers." i figured out they probably wanted me to just read a narration.

if i could talk to them on camera, that means we will be together all day long while we're setting up shots and i can pump them with questions because i was so curious about it. when i was a little kid, i used to do what i thought were experiments. i would mix my mother's face powder with toothpaste to see if i could get it to blow up. [laughter] alan: i didn't. she would always say what did you do to the floor? charlie: you come from an acting family. alan: yes, my father was a well-known actor. charlie: and you traveled with him? alan: my father was in burlesque at the time so we traveled from one burlesque theater to another for years. my earliest years were standing in the wings and watching burlesque. charlie: if you did not have that in your dna, would you have been a scientist?

alan: i don't think so. i think i'm doing exactly what i ought to be doing. i have learned a lot about communication. personally, the training i had as an actor outside of watching from the wings was in improvisation. i realized what it contributed to me, not only as an actor, but as a person. i was more able to relate to people. i'm very interested in helping scientists from the time i was on the science show. very interested in getting them to be who they are and make clear what they are working on so we can enjoy it. i want to share that enjoyment with everybody else. i think i'm in the right spot. i should be helping them communicate. charlie: you play a lot of bad guys now, too. alan: yeah, i love it. [laughter] alan: in fact, don't cross me. charlie: in "blacklist," you played a role there. alan: yeah, i loved that. they told me i was the only guy they all feared. they never told me why.

charlie: feared on the -- arlene: as the character. alan: my character was the most feared person and they never said why because they make it up as they go along. i say, what does this line mean and they say, we will find out next week. [laughter] charlie: the book is called "just kids from the bronx." arlene alda. ♪

john: i'm john heilemann. mark: and i'm mark halperin. and with all due -- lindsey: whoa, yankee boy. i'm lindsey graham from south carolina. and with all due respect to my south carolina friends, get your butt to new hampshire, i need your help. ♪ mark: a granite state greeting and top of the evening to you from manchester, new hampshire. on the show tonight, budget cuts. jeb bush's struts. and lindsey graham's guts. but first, it is tuesday, it is election day in israel. we will not know for a while if prime minister benjamin “goes by b.b.” netanyahu will retain his title.