>> from our studios in new york city, this is "charlie rose." charlie: welcome to the program. we begin with a terrible air crash in the else. here's the latest -- in the alps. here's the latest from cbs evening news. reporter: investigators turned up several doctors notes, excluding including one on the day of the crash. it supports the culinary assessment that lubitz it is

illness. prosecutors would not say with that condition was other than it had been treated by a doctor. they did not find a suicide note or anything indicating a religious or political motive. they are combing through the copilot's background examining financial and personal details, as well as the possibility he was suffering from depression. the federal aviation authority says there was a medical edition attached to lubitz's file, but did not say what it was. lubitz had been a patient. officials declined to provide for the details. the medical records have been sent to the investigator's office. germanwings confirmed that lubitz interrupted his training in 2009, but did not say why. on wednesday, lufthansa ceo said the copilot passed all the subsequent tests and checks with flying colors.

german pilots undergo rigorous annual physicals but not specific psychological testing. that is limited to a questionnaire filled up by the pilots themselves. you're a's aviation safety agency is recommending airlines have two people in the cockpit of a flying aircraft and lufthansa announced it will offer $55,000 assistance for each victim. charlie: iran, which many believe is backing the rebels one that military action would result in a deepening crisis. join me from washington is anthony cordesman. tony, thank you for doing this. let me begin with what is happening on the ground. where are we? tony: where we are is that the hufti seem they have taken over key airbases.

they occupy ports along the western coast as long as the capital. we need to makebe careful with the term because they are allied with the former dictator. they split the regular forces, which are largely -dominated. this is not a shiite takeover. this is a shiite-led mixture of sunni and shiite's and a non-combination of a religious tribal movement and a former dictator. charlie: what are the stakes for saudi arabia that led them to be engaged? tony: there are 4 million yemeni inside saudi arabia. that is a massive potential source of instability. quite aside from the houthi the main terrorist threat to saudi arabia is al qaeda in the arabian peninsula. that was largely driven out of

saudi arabia but into yemen and it still conducts regular strikes inside saudi arabia. you have a border that has always been a source of contention, of smuggling, of illegal immigration. it is one of the longest borders saudi arabia has and it is an area where many of the factions have been a problem for saudi arabia for decades. you have the need for some kind of stability in yemen, but you also have saudi concerns that if iran should ever acquire airbases or any kind of naval bases, even in the indian ocean area that yemen has, there is an island, or inside the red sea, they would control potentially one of the critical chokepoints into the red sea affecting the suez canal and saudi arabia's sports and oil

exports are at sea area. for all of these reasons, yemen is critical to saudi arabia. charlie: what are the stakes for the united states? what is the risk for the united states? tony: the risk is that al qaeda in the arabian peninsula has been the group that plant more direct attacks on the u.s. than any of the other extremist groups or terrorists in the area. we too, are critically dependent on the stable flow of exports out of the gulf. and through the red sea. the suez canal is critical to us because we use it to move our combat ships. it is critical in terms of the global economy. we have been able to reduce our dependence on oil imports. our dependence on other kinds of imports from asia countries that are dependent on gulf oil

and our dependence on europe keeps increasing. are we achieving energy independence? no, not at all. we are actually steadily increasing our dependence on the global economy. charlie: what happened to yemen? it was a place that the president suggested, go look at yemen. that is a good place to see where things might be. tony: it is sometimes very difficult to know. none of the data that was being collected by the national counterterrorism center shows that somehow we had scored any kind of major victory scribble yemen. -- victories in yemen. none of the saudi activity coming out of yemen showed we were attaining stability. the houthi have been a problem since 2009. this is not something new. the previous government the dictatorship, had fallen apart between 2011 and 2012 and

the new central government was elected without real opposition and without any real support as the military had split. i think part of the problem is we sometimes spin things almost in defiance of the facts. charlie: could we be suggesting there is more iranian influence than there actually is? tony: i think there is certainly that risk. there were a lot of reports initially that the houthi were only succeeding because of iran. there were no precise estimates here, but the cia puts the shiite population of yemen at about 35% of the population. it has been houthi dominated. the sunni part has been divided almost since the formation of yemen, almost constantly fighting and some kind of level. it is a country that has never had stability since it was

unified and before that it was the source of fighting within its two halves. charlie: as you know as well as anyone, there has been some degree of split between united states and saudi arabia that took place after the so-called red line in syria and the failure to attack there. they witnessed that the president went quickly from india to saudi arabia to talk to the new king. now with a common enemy, isis and terrorism, is this strike a cooperation? could there have been united states involvement with the saudi's in terms of some way making it easier for them to do what they have been doing? tony: there were some reports that we did not get large amounts of strategic warning that the saudi's would act. the saudis had no warning that the prime minister would be dealing with houthi and have to

leave. we are providing logistic report to the saudis. we are providing targeting capabilities that they do not have. we think we may be flying unmanned aerial vehicles as well as providing other kinds of intelligence. there is a close relationship and there has been in yemen for a long time. this is not like the problems we face in syria or iraq. ever since 2011 and long before then, the united states and saudi arabia cooperated in trying to stabilize yemen. ever since about 2003-2004, we have had a strong cooperative effort to try to do with al qaeda in the arabian peninsula. charlie: what is the risk here for a larger war that could go from yemen to the rest of the middle east? tony: i think you probably will not get any kind of unified

explosion. iran is a very weak military power in terms of air power. it has very serious reasons not to start a war inside the gulf. iran can certainly still the flames inside yemen -- stoke the flames inside yemen. you can make it into a difficult insurgency. it can create a climate where there is more support for terrorism. iran already is playing a major role in iraq and it is an ambiguous one because it sometimes seems to be pressing for iraqi unity and it is directly arming and supporting shiite militias which are attacking the sunnis and presenting a problem for the kurds. we are watching iraq iran back assad regime inside of syria. you see iran playing lower-level

games and bahrain, in lebanon in some extent supporting hamas scribble gaza -- hamas in gaza. this is an explosive situation. it is clear that tensions between sunnis and shiites are rising. we are watching power struggles between sunni islamist extremist groups and most of the governments inside the middle east. it is this interaction of different non-state actors with outside states supporting them and feuding with other states that can sort of create this long-term, almost unquenchable seriously violent sort of hotspots throughout the regions. charlie: what is the status and syria? tony: i'm afraid that the status is the last rebel movement we tried to back first had very serious problems last november

and was decisively defeated a month ago by not the islamic state but another sunni extremist group. the fighting against assad is very mixed. from day to day, it is hard to know exactly who is winning. at times, the sod seems to be gaining and he certainly seems to be gradually taking back some cities, but he does not seem to be creating any kind of lasting ability to hold the more populated areas of syria. as we have seen inside iraq, tikrit did not produce this quick, sudden victory by the sheet malicious and the shiite portions -- by the sheshiite militias and the shiite portions of the iraqi army. it is far from clear who inside any of this is achieving some

kind of unity between arab sunni and shiite or between arab and kurds. this is an area where the islamic state is a problem, the eldest front is a problem, assad regime is a problem, and you have a constant battle between factions in iraq. charlie: we thank you very much for joining us. tony: a pleasure. charlie: anthony cordesman. as a follow-up, a footnote on "60 minutes" on sunday. my conversation in damascus with the shawl all are sought -- bashar al-assad. 90% of the civilian casualties, 90% come from the syrian army. president assad: how did you get that result? charlie: that was a report issued in the last six months.

president assad: war is not about capturing land and gaining land. it is about winning the hearts and minds of the serious. we cannot win the hearts and the minds of the syrians what we are killing syrians. we cannot sustain for years and that -- sustain for four years that. it is impossible. this is not realistic. this is against our interests of the government, the kill to people. what do we get? charlie: the argument is there are weapons of war that have been used on that most people look out on -- look down on. one is chlorine gas. they believe it has been used here. there is evidence of that and they would like to have the right to inspect to see where it is coming from. as you know, barrel bombs have been used in they come from

helicopters. the only people who have helicopters is the syrian army. those two acts of war, which is society looking down on as barbaric acts. president assad: this is part of the propaganda. chlorine gas is not military. you can buy it anywhere. charlie: it can be weaponize. president assad: it is not very effective. it is not used as a military gas. it was very effective, the terrorists would have used it on a larger scale. it is not used very much. charlie: then why not let someone come in and inspected to see if it has been used? you would be happy for that? president assad: of course. we ask delegations to investigate. it cannot be used by the military. this is propaganda because in

the media, when it leads, it leads. they are looking for something which bleeds. ♪

charlie: as a teenager, barney frank had an epiphany. one that he wanted to go into politics and public service. the other was that he was gay.

in his 20's, he achieved that first dream, serving in the massachusetts general court, and 32 years in congress, dating as the chairman of the financial services committee. during that time, he probably paraded as a liberal champion of effective government but he had the fact he was gay. -- he hid the fact he was gay. he has written a memoir in which he talks about these experiences. it is great to have you here. senator frank: thank you. al: how much of that was affected by the fact you are gay and could not disclose it? senator frank: it was more than i thought. there was one way it did not affected. i never let it keep me back from being an advocate for gay rights. i can't be honest about who i

am, so i will be a coward, but i will not be a hypocrite. i will not hold back from the fight. i did that. it takes something out if you personally. al: you talked about the emotional damage. senator frank: no question. you are repressing. you have physical and emotional needs to relate to other people as who you are. especially when i became a legislator. legislators, and you know, it is a very personal business. legislators have to interact with each other. we do not have a formal hierarchy. no one can order anyone else. when your interpersonal skills are impeded by your own inner turmoil, you don't do it as well. i realized this after i did finally knowledge being gay publicly and a number of my collies, including some who would fight me not to do it they said we are glad you did that because you are easier to work with now. you are better at our job.

i was able to put all of my emotional energy into work with my colleagues, not into keeping myself bottled up. al: have you suffered a lot of pain, emotional damage before? in some ways, the most painful must have been after you came out of the closet, when you were sanctioned by the house for a relationship with a male prostitute. that must have been the worst. senator frank: it did. here's the deal -- that relation with the prostitute was a product of my repression. it is not an excuse. i realized i was behaving responsibly because i was the phone this need for emotional and physical companionship. that was one of the things that help me came out. this is crazy. you are acting irresponsibly. when i came out in 1987 and the colleagues responded better than i thought they wooden i got reelected, i thought, well, here

is a big thing i did and it hasn't hurt me. when almost two and a half years later this guy comes back and i had broken it off with him, we were not dating at the time when i came out. yeah, i was humiliated. i hurt the causes i cared about. i thought i was free of all this and i found myself pulled back. it was a very bad moment. al: he certainly bounced back. barney, and all of my years in politics, i don't think i have seen an issue jay's araiza glee -- changed so radically. 2004 karl rove was using anti-gay slurs as a wedge issue and now it has changed completely and republicans to know what to bring up the issue. senator frank: i agree with you. as late as 2004 if i had said i plan to get married while i'm still in member of congress people would have said that would controversial.

when i did get married in 2012 the gym and someone asked -- to jim and they asked if it was controversial, it was. a lot of colleagues were met i did not invite them. it is the most rapid social change in american history. we started out having hidden from everyone, so the prejudice ran the show. there was no counter to the prejudice. what happened is that more and more of us decided to be honest about who we are. i served and many others. as we became honest about who we were, reality defeated reggie does. especially on same-sex marriage. there were people against marriage because they disapproved of us and maybe they did not want us happy. they did not want to give us a sense that we should be treated normal. they could not come out and say that. that is why they call that the

defense of marriage act. what do you mean, defense of marriage? i married ajim. what does it hurt you? someone said it hurts the institution. that does not hurt anyone's marriage. they had to come up with an argument that said we were causing social damage by marriage. once massachusetts started it and others did, they lost that fight because there were obviously no negative social consequences. as more and more states did it, the argument that this would become a problem disappeared. al: let's turn to government and politics. you don't agree with some liberals as some others who say that liberalism is in decline, it may be dead, the era of big government is over. you think that is wrong. senator frank: as i said, i wonder when the era of the government was. i must have slept through.

maybe was 1936. he was unfairly attacked but i think it was a big mistake. then they make the mistake that say the government is unpopular so we will concede that government is not a good thing and work to expand this program in that program. the whole cannot be smaller than the sum of the parts. you cannot agree to this antigovernment, shrink the government, and then look to expand this or that program. i think it is a paragraph. some people are -- i think it is a paradox. some people are opposed to the government. there were working people for fdr and truman and johnson and kennedy and they believed in government, but they are disappointed because as their economic position has eroded over the past couple of decades the government has not done anything. they are mad enough not because they disagree with it -- al: because it has not done anything for them.

senator frank: while they were being hurt. i believe we could free up resources and do things in the area of health care rich kish and, obama and clinton want to do more for health care. the perception among many working people is that he will take it away for me and give it to the poor. if we could have been clear that it was an expansion, it would have not been unpopular. al: let's talk about the financial crisis. 2008 and 2009, part of the key of getting through a was you working with two stallwart republicans. al: people's -- senator frank: people say to me what happened to bipartisanship? it died when obama became president and no republican would give him the partnership. seven weeks before the presidential election, the tension appeared in american politics. ben bernanke three times appointed to the office by

bush. he was a good republican. they come to the democratic congress and say the economy is about to fall apart and we have got to do something that the public is not going to like. we respond by helping them past the tarp which will go down in history as the most unpopular successful thing the government ever did. we worked with them very closely. when the bill came to the floor on the house, we get them many more votes than the republicans. even when we went to financial reform, and this is something that people do not focus on, ben bernanke at the fed and sheila bair, the bush appointee the bob dole protégé, worked with us. much of the legislation that was passed was their idea. even the legislation was bipartisan in that the bush officials who knew about the crisis worked with us, even though all of the republicans voted no. al: there is dodd-frank, of

course. in retrospect, could it be made less complex? senator frank: no. part of the problem is why is it so big? in the new deal, they passed two bills. one dealing with banking, one with housing. i thought we would have seven or eight separate bills and chris dodd says to me, pal, do you know what it is like to pass bills in the senate? 60 votes six times? they will hold me up. the other thing was the financial system had become more confident. there was no such thing as credit default swaps in the 1930's. part of the problem was there was too little interconnection. we added a few things. i don't think it could have been any farther -- smaller. al: you write that the powerful

financial interest as illustrated by dodd-frank, but do you worry that it will be diluted slowly? representative frank: yes, i was. here is the deal. the norm is for the public to not pay attention. when the public is not paying attention, powerful economic interests have their way. what happen in the financial crisis, it is what romney talked about, but the opportunity pass by that the crisis presents, the public got engaged. it makes a big impact. when the public gets involved, votes will kick money. that is what happened here. we got the bill passed. the fear was that as things went forward, people would forget and the big interest would come in and fill the vacuum. al: did that happen? representative frank: no, and i thought it would. the president signed a bill that had the beginnings of an unraveling. the public was very

angry. elizabeth warren jumped in and called me and asked me to jump in. hillary clinton sent out a tweet saying we will protect financial reform. the public reaction to that one weakening was so strong that i believe it will not happen again unless the republicans win in 2016. what we have is one of the major issues in the election, substantively, is what happens to financial reform. it will not be weakened until then with obama standing firm and wwarren safeguarding of. al: over the course of four and half decades, you dealt with a lot of really powerful men and orton figures -- important figures. let me give you a thumbnail portrait starting with your first major boss, kevin white. representative frank: fascinating man. brilliant, a little

undisciplined, but a man who basically knew his own strengths and weaknesses very well. he was able to play to his strengths and downplay his weaknesses to become very effective. al: edward kennedy. representative frank: asnn extraordinary force. i opposed him when i first ran because i wanted a senator that needed a president, and he was a president's brother. no one has done more in american history to make this a fairer society. he is the role model for how you combine zealous advocacy with pragmatism. al: tip o'neill. representative frank: much smarter than people realize. when he died, people that the eulogy that he never forgot where he came from. it's easy not to forget when you came from. it is hard when you are so deeply rooted in a situation to think about where we should go. he was the best of the old school, who benefited from it

but was able to do new things and adapt. he was a very important transitional figure because he could go backwards and forwards. al: newt gingrich. representative frank: one of the most instructive forces in american politics. gingrich, who never had a great set of policy ideas, came to power by explicitly saying we cannot win, we republicans if we do not demonize the democrats. he wrote this. you cannot say the democrats are reasonable people who with we disagree. you have to say they are dishonest and corrupt. at the same time when he was leading the attack, he had a glass job and used to complain -- jaw and used to complain when people said the smallest thing about him. al: nancy pelosi. representative frank: very effective leader. sexual stereotyping. she is an attractive soft-spoken woman who is as tough and shrewd and smart as anyone i have ever seen. she has used the power she has

as a free in san francisco to be an effective force. al: you're mainly praising democrats because you were and still are a loyal democrat, but there are some republicans that you really admire. representative frank: i once tried to get jim leyland appointed to be the head of the world bank. alan greenspan, who at one time i worked with, said he was it extremely decent man, very bright, and it was always the frustration. alan was a tough guy. alan was economically conservative, but he was a very decent man. a lot of things like gay rights and other things, he was the opposite of me. that generosity worked very well. the day after i came out, alan simpson called me and said, i apologize. i said, for what?

he said, i know i'm making jokes about all sorts of thing. i probably made an anti-gay joke in your presence. i am proud of you and so happy. he was one of the most decent likable human beings i ever worked with. al: president clinton. representative frank: very bright, very effective. i've regretted his -- i think he may have -- i regretted his accommodating the antigovernment thing. i think you try to do what you could not do. on the whole, one of the most talented people i have ever seen. al: george w. bush. representative frank: decent. limited, i think, in terms of his approach to things. i think he goes down historically of having committed the worst mistake that any president ever made. al: barney frank, i think you for being with us. the book is as interesting as his conversation. thank you very much. we will be back in a moment. ♪

charlie: benjamin scheuer is a singer and songwriter. he wrote a one-man musical called "the lion." is about his relationship and his father and his battle with cancer. a naturally appealing performer with a soft touch.

he seems to have found consolation for the troubles he has endured by jamming them into his art. i am pleased to have benjamin scheuer. welcome. how does this begin? how does this play you have created and are performing through the end of 2016 come about? ben: i made a record of autobiographical songs with my band. as i was performing these songs with my band, or even solo acoustic in little coffee shops, i wanted to know what i was going to say in between the songs to better connect them in better frame each song more clearly. i wrote a script. i wrote it down. i did not tell anyone, but i memorized it. i wanted to play the best gig possible. i did not want people to be bored in between songs. i had a script and a score and that is of stents of the theater. -- ostensibly theater. that is where i began. charlie: when did you know you

would feel to perform? ben: i was invited to the good speed theater in connecticut as a writer and resident in january 2013 and they asked me, do you have a piece of theater on which you are working now? i had written other pieces of theater for the states. i told him yes, i do. it is a show called "the bridge." the bridge was the title of the record i recently made. i thought i would pull a fast one on these guys and work on the in between song banter. so i went up to good speed in january 2013 and living next door to me were mark coleman and great coders -- greg kotas, and shawn daniels. i became friends with them and we would play songs for each other and got to know each other pretty well. when i got invited to the playhouse in vermont, the people in weston said we want you to write, work on this piece you have on, but we feel like you

need a new eyes and ears to help out. why don't you call a director? i called shawn daniels and asked if he had any recommendations for young directors. i thought that sean was way out of my league and he made the recommendation for three young directors. he said for what it is worth, i will direct your show. charlie: and you knew you had a director. ben: he said -- i said, how would you directed? he said, you do not have a show. you have four songs that maybe you will cut two of. i will outline the store you want to tell and guide you to write a new show. we wrote 16 new tunes. charlie: what was the story he said he wanted to tell? ben: he asked me to sit down and tell it out loud. it was about my relationship with my dad and my relationship with a woman called julia that went well and then went bad and then my diagnosis with advanced

cancer when over 28 years old and what it was like to endure that. what is it i learned from all those things? charlie: which was? representative frank: i learned family was the most important thing in my life and the last song of the show, "the lion," answers the question the chauffeurs asks, which is what makes a line a lion? the song says i have to learn once more to be a lion without a roar. it is not that that makes a lion but a pride. my father gave me at two years old toy banjo. he knew i love the guitar because he played and he built between banjo. my father taught me to play guitar. charlie: he died early? representative frank: he died at 48, a week before i turned 14 of a brain aneurysm. charlie: talk about your father

and how you were able to put that into song and conversation. representative frank: when my father died, he and i had been in a big fight and we had not resolved it. charlie: about? ben: about -- i think i was an annoying teenager and he was frustrated from some work of his and i don't know what it was and he was suffering from depression as well. in the show what i present as the big fight is i wanted to go on a school band trip and my father said your schoolwork is not good enough, you can go. in the show, i use that as the indicative of a larger tension between me and my dad. i don't member exactly what was fighting about. needless to say, we never resulted and he died. i watched it happen. i went into my parents' bedroom. charlie: did you write all this down? did you have a terrific memory? ben: it is seared into my brain.

♪ sometimes being brave is being scared at the risk of being burned i tried to guide the pride to learn two defend the flames the things that made us lions are not the same iowa show my teeth when i am smiling -- i always show my teeth when i'm smiling i always say i love you win i'm sure i'm learning what it means to really roar ♪ charlie: autobiographical stuff. once you begin to be honest, it comes easier. ben: it does get easier. charlie: is the hardest part the cantor or the fights with your father? ben: writing about?

the hardest part was writing the love song for my girlfriend because we had broken up many many years later. many years before. while writing about cancer felt incredibly cathartic, to go back and look at when cancer had control of me. i could control cancer. that gave me great agency and that is incredible alchemy, to take a bad thing and turning it into a good thing. songwriting becomes a magical tech. when i wrote about my father, i learned about it more. charlie: people come up to you and they say you were singing my song. ben: yeah. that is lovely to feel like i can connect with people. charlie: even though they did not have cancer, it is their state of mind. ben: sure, because i suppose it is not that the same things happen to us but we feel the same way about the stuff that does. we feel lost. we feel misunderstood we feel loved. charlie: what have you learned

about the connection between suffering and creating art? ben: that art can be magical and take something and turn it into something good, even if it does not feel valuable at the time. even by writing down what it is like to suffer. that may feel stupid or pointless, it is a worthy thing to do. charlie: here is an animated video made from your song. ben: ♪ my father has an old guitar and he plays a folk song my father has an old guitar and he plays a folk song there is nothing i want more than to play with him he goes to the basement and builds me a cookie tin banjo.

he builds me a cookie tin banjo the strings are made of rubber bands the strap is an old red necktie the body is a big round lid of a metal cookie tin when he places old guitar, i play my cookie tin banjo play michael keaton banjo right along with him -- play my cookie tin banjo right along with him [instrumental guitar] the more we play together, the more i fall in love with music i realize the banjo is a toy i have outgrown i want something new and something real so he gets me a guitar call my own dad says to me on this fine

afternoon come sit on the stairs i'll teach you a tune he hands me a pick little and black he shows me the g chord i never looked back somewhere in a closet is my cookie tin banjo in my arms, my guitar, my greatest source of joy for the life that i have now, i'm grateful to my father he gave the gift of music to his boy started with a simple homemade toy ♪ charlie: animation? when you have cancer come on top of two things other than your father, did he give you a sense of mortality and a sense of urgency? ben: i thought that i was going

to die. even if i was told that my odds were not bad at all hodgkin's lymphoma is 85% curable, but i thought, how likely is it to get cancer at all? of course i will be in the 15% that dies. the first thing i did when i found out i had cancer is go to the recording studio. i called my record producer and friend and started working on the record "the bridge" harder than ever because i wanted to leave something behind. charlie: what is the ambition you have now that you have gotten rave reviews in london, great reviews here for a very personal story, a story only you could tell? you have married music and storytelling. what is next? ben: one thing that is really important to me is to take the two loves i have, making records and making theater, and blending them. up until really recently, musical theater recordings,

recordings of a show, have been done as souvenirs in as much they will take the band and cast and record the show in one day and the show is to sell the record. i think there is a better way to do it. i think the record is there to sell the show. your record can reach millions of people and the way that we do that is you make a single of your songs and you make music videos because any 10-year-old will tell us that, how do you listen to music? on youtube on vimeo with our eyes. i love interdisciplinary work to work with the animators and to make the video for "cookie tin banjo ergo we are making a new one for "cure." i want to keep making records. charlie: are they autobiographical? ben: they are all autobiographical yeah. charlie: mr. any part of you

that -- is there any part of you that thinks you are glad for going through the trials? breaking up with your girlfriend, the cancer, because i've come out a more finer-tuned artist? or do you say the other way? you could have become that artist without having cancer, having lost her father? ben: it is difficult to say because we get the cards we are dealt and only those cards and i think that one thing one thing and getting another and how we deal with that is a kind of person we are. i have had the unfortunate circumstances of losing a parent at an early age and being diagnosed with a serious illness at a young age and i felt the way i could get through it was to make art. i love making art about positive things, too. i don't think we need to have a bad time to make good art. i think the nature of drama is

you want one thing and get another. the greeks knew that. i did not invent that. to try to document something -- i made a book called "between two spaces." i was photographed once a week while i was getting chemotherapy. we made a book to raise money for the leukemia lymphoma society. charlie: this has pictures of you getting chemotherapy? ben: yeah. there are quite intense images. there is text from the journals i cap. one of the things i find funny in a dark way is that when i was 30 pounds underweight and gauntly skinny right before i started chemotherapy, and i was very ill, people would come up to me and say, you are so thin, you look amazing. that is the thing about new york. i like the contradiction. my doctor told me says as you get better on the inside, you can look worse on the

outside. charlie: i could control to the tiniest detail what i wore, so there was more care that i put into the shine of my shoes, the knot in my tie. mother hugs me and to feel my middle to see how much fat i have on me. it is annoying endearing offputting. these are photographs of you some very personal, some showing you and chemotherapy, showing you living with the cancer. ben: the book is called "between two spaces." it is to raise money for cancer research. charlie: we asked you to bring your guitar. ben: yes, indeed. charlie: would you sing a something as we leave? ben: i sure will. ♪ this is a song from the show called "weather the storm."

♪ gets around children come here to my side sit i the fire, where it is warm i'll tell you something once told to me about the way we weather the storm it's not how hard the rainfalls or how hard the rain blows or how deep is the snow in the road nor the balance we fake when we feel the ground shake and think that our world will explode it's the health that we give, it's the love that we live, it's our pride in the friendships we form it's the courage we show facing things we don't know the way that we weather the

storm if you try to stand tall but you slip and you fall in the earth is the sound of the stars the truth gets revealed when you are broken and healed every heart is made stronger by sparks it's not how long the rainfalls or how hard the wind blows or how deep is the snow across the road nor the balance we fake when we feel the ground shake and we think that our world will explode it's the health that we give it's the love that we live it's our pride in the friendships we form it's the courage we show facing things we don't know it's the way that we weather the storm so go on your journeys be bold and be brave

be strong and when it is such that it all feels too much remember the words to the song it's not how long the rainfalls or how hard the wind blows or how deep is the snow in the road nor the balance we fake when we feel the ground shake and we think that our world will explode it is the health that we give it's the love that we live it's our pride in the friendships we form it's the courage we show facing things we don't know. it is the way that we weather the storm it's the way that we weather the storm ♪ charlie: benjamin scheuer is at the theater at the culture project through sunday, march

29. "the lion." thank you for joining us. ben: thank you for having me. ♪

mark: i am mark halperin. phil: and i am phil mattingly. with all the respective president obama who had a little bit of a slip coming out of air force one today. that is nothing. ♪ on our hastily assembled and lovingly assembled program tonight, israel now and then. the press gets shunned again. and a brand-new moment of zen.