cory: from pier 3 in san francisco, welcome to "bloomberg west," where we focus on innovation, technology and the future of business. i'm cory johnson. every weekend we bring you the "best of west," the top interviews of the week with all the global power players in technology and media. this week our top story was one of the most watched trials. ellen pao suing her former employer. the jury found kleiner on all counts and rejected pao's claims of gender discrimination and retaliation. but does this case set back the

rights of women in the workplace? i talked to a partner and kleiner's defense attorney in this case. this is her first interview since the verdict. >> great to be done. it's great to be back in my office. great for kleiner to have prevailed on everything. >> did you have a sense? the jurors were stunned when they walked out and saw all the cameras there. >> it was overwhelming. just a tidal wave of reporters. occasionally people would post tweets on my facebook page or email me. i followed a few people but i didn't have a sense of the whole scope of it until the end. >> what made this case unusual? it's got an unusual amount of coverage. supposedly having an impact on silicon valley. >> it's not going to happen. cases don't change industries. that's not what they're about and not what they do. but this case was the right issue at the right time.

wrong case, wrong forum. very hot issue obviously in silicon valley and people feel passionately about it. but the media coverage made everything different. >> how so? >> you could feel it. you could hear comments in the audience, the jurors were distracted by the clacking of the key boords. you come out and have cameras in your faces. it was a very different experience for a trial lawyer. >> did that help you? >> it didn't help. it's a distraction you have to look beyond, keep your eyes on the prize. and that's what we did. you're always worried what is the press reporting if the jurors are reading it. but this jury seemed to be very careful about following the judge's admonitions. cory: one of the things i've ahead and heard about you is that you're very aware of what the jury is doing at all moments in the courtroom. and when you're walking out or when the jury is walking out. >> you have to watch the jury. you have to see if they're having a bad reaction to

you. that's important. but i wouldn't say staring at them all the time. it's just important for a trial lawyer to try and read how you're coming across and how they're reacting to you. cory: do you believe there is a culture of sexual discrimination in silicon valley in venture capital? >> i don't see it. certainly not in the clients i work with. i'm not sure they would hire me if there were. i suppose you could be really cynical and say that's why they hired me. but i don't see it. i hear it all the time about big law and i'm a senior woman partner in a big law firm. and i don't see it there, either. so part of my job to find out when it's not there. maybe that prejudices me in a way. cory: but it sounds like you're saying it's not there. >> i don't think it's there. cory: you're right. the narrative has been the opposite. >> definitely. the numbers are bad. that has to change.

and when numbers increase, cultures change. cory: so they say venture capitalist women were down. i've talked to lawyers who say why isn't it 50/50? >> because there weren't women in the pipeline. and as the professor, who is an expert in the trial testified, venture firms have been shrinking in the past few years. so that's going to hinder hiring. what cliner did was -- kleiner did was made it number one in the nation. but there aren't women entrepreneurs. there aren't women in science and teck. and unless the culture fixes that, unless we put women in math and science in ways that we're not doing now, the numbers are not going to change. cory: so ellen pao lost her case, but did she ultimately win by brings these issues to life? >> the thing it is jury were

asked to rule on were incredibly narrow. specific dates that were boxed in. and so what we heard during the trial was sort of a referendum on pao's years. but what the jury was deciding on were snippets of that and does it meet very particular legal standards. and i think we've seen other cases where public opinion can differ from what the jury decides. there's been a lot of that particularly most recently around ferguson and the i can't breathe in new york. so that's definitely something that does happen. and i do think that you can still look at something as a learning experience and take something to gain insight from even if they don't win the case. cory: can i acknowledge that there's racism and that what happened in the horrible things that happened in missouri happened in missouri but they didn't happen here? >> of course. i was just using that as an example in terms of where public opinion goes one way and the court decision goes another. cory: when you look at this

case, is this case -- we're going to remember this as an important case? i was surprised to see it in the cover of the "new york times." >> i think it was a very important case. for example, i certaintly don't think that going forward you're going to have a honey pot like kleiner perkins not able to find its eeo policy. >> do you think? >> i think. yeah. and not have a situation where a woman isn't invited on an important networking event like that ski trip or the dinner. there were a lot of factual disputes here. also, kleiner perkins got lucky in that in some ways ellen pao was not as sympathetic a plaintiff. but if she had been a different kind of plaintiff, if this had been a different kind of a job for example, a job where there were more clear cut requirements this could have gone very differently. and remember that the court ruled that kleiner perkins was potentially on the hook for over $140 million of punitive damages.

now, they dodged the bullet. but going forward, i think practice is going to be very very different both in gender -- in venture capital and in tech more generally. cory: so we have all read a lot about this case. we know the case a little bit. the people who knew it maybe the best, the jurors were kind enough to speak to us right after the verdict was announced. check this out. >> when you see comparable or similar feedback, meaning areas that they need to improve, any one gets promoted and moves the fast track and the other is held back in a the particular role. then to me it served the -- it validated the claim of being discriminated against on the basis of gender. >> based on testimony we heard it probably had more to do with her sales ability and her

ability to get along with people. her personality. and a lot of people can be very analytically driven which it sounds that's what she was. that's what made her great in the chief of staff role. but we felt in the long run that probably that wasn't what her role was going to be just based on the reviews and the e-mails that we saw. cory: so there was two sides to the case and the latter side is what carried the day there. but when you look at this, do you think that this is just the right issue the wrong case? >> yeah. i think that it's pretty hard to listen to some of those stories, and as well as some of the other stories that came out over the past couple of years and women in tech and not think that's something's not amiss. it's a little bit like the boiler rooms, the boys clubs of the 1980's and 1990's. so i do think this is an issue that's not going away. it's something that almost every woman who works in venture capital has experience of. cory: is it worse in finance or

business? not that finance isn't business but it's its own peculiar thing. >> i think that one of the thing about finance is alternative assets is deals can take years to come to fruition. and even after they come to fruition who knows if they're successful or not. so during that time you are really getting by based on your reputation and who you know and the perception of success rather than in business you have quarterly earnings. that tell you whether or not you're doing a good job. so i think women can do better in an analytical environment where they can prove that they're good as opposed to needing to grow out on a strip club bus or whatever it may be. cory: when we look at this case, do you think that there will be another case like this? we've heard about class action suits on these same issues. this could have a much wider reaching effect. >> i mean, during the trial there were two more lawsuits filed against tech companies. that may be a coincidence. i suspect it's not.

what we saw in this trial is that although there was a lot of evidence that cut in favor of kleiner perkins, there was also very, very clear evidence of gender stereotyping and specifically the kind of gender stereotyping that is often encountered by asian-american women. for example, in a recent study one of the findings that we had is that asian american women are often faulted for being too passive. a word that was literally came up in the kleiner perkins trial. and that asian american women walk a very, very narrow tight rope between being seen as too feminine to be competent, too passive, too quiet, she was called. but also too masculine to be likeable. she was called both passive and demanding. that's a pretty narrow tight rope.

and this is really a gender training to the world. so i think it has changed the conversation in a permanent way. cory: we'll be right back. ♪

cory: this is the best of "bloomberg west." i'm cory johnson. indiana's so-called religious freadm law has become a huge issue in the technology and business industry. after the law tech companies spoke out in protest. more than a dozen tech leaders signing a letter calling for more protections for lgbt people. sales force is limiting employee travel to the state as are some city and state governments. cloud era pulled out of a big data conference. i spoke with mike olson just hours after indiana governor mike pence vowed to fix the

law. to prohibit discrimination. >> i think it's encouraging but we would like to see exactly what the legislature and the administration intend. cory: what is it about this law that offended you guys so much that you very quickly moved to speak out against it? >> several things. first of all, equality is a constitutional right. very simple, very direct. on that basis, this law was a problem. not just on that basis though. we believe that equal rights for all citizens, including lgbt citizens are fundamental. that it is good for business. and that it is the morally right thing for us to stand up for that class of citizens as for others. there were lots of problems with the indiana law. we're happy to see the governor begin to address some of them and we're looking forward to seeing more. cory: i was really struck -- i think all of us have been struck by how the tech community in particular have struck out making a lot of loud noises.

but your company, yelp, apple, really getting out there. angie's list is an indiana based company really quickly speaking out about this. why do you think tech companies have taken the lead here? >> i think mark did a great service in focusing attention on this law. this is different from the laws in many other states. that's not to say those laws don't have problems but this one is especially egregious. by focusing attention and by giving the tech community, which swings a lot of revenue, which has a lot of influence among businesses in indiana, he gave us the chance to affect the course of this law. and, i hope, to lead to its revision or repeal. >> mark, it certainly did that. also, tim cook, also the biggest tech company, talk about all the other states that have similar laws. have you gone through and thought about what this means to the other states? have you put yourself in

position where you're going to have to speak out or decide whether those laws are acceptable to do business in those other states that have laws? >> it's a good question but it's not just a cloud era question. i think one of the services that mark and tim and the tech community provided here was to focus attention on all of those other laws. there are some substantial differences and we haven't read all of the statutes and detail. but i think now that there is a national conversation under way about what is permissible, what is written into legislation, and what that ought to mean for businesses like ours. i think it's a very helpful development and i look forward to continuing that conversation and to finding more ways that cloud era can be supportive of rights of all people. cory: i want to play a sound byte from mike pence as well because he talked for quite a bit and had some interesting things to say. check this out.

>> i don't believe for a minute that it was the intention of the general assembly to create a license to discriminated or a right to deny services to gays lesbians or anyone else in this state. and it certainly wasn't my intent. cory: do you believe that mike that it wasn't his intent? >> look, i'm not going to call into question what the governor intended. what i will do is highlight what the governor and the legislation did. and that is wrote a law that legalized discrimination against classes that ought to be protected, that certainly are in federal law and in other states. the state of indiana lacked those protections. if this outcry leads the state to write reasonable protections into its code then i think we've accomplished something pretty great. and we look forward to seeing what the governor does in that regard. cory: before we congratulate ourselves for just the tech

community, even in indiana we saw a huge protest. the indiana star, indianapolis star the newspaper there in indiana not known as a bastion of liberalism really taking a powerful stance on this. i wonder what this means, though, if editorials can do what editorials do. but i wonder if the voice of business and the almighty dollar speaks louder when businesses such as yours, mike, decide to pull business away from that state. >> look, a couple things. first of all, i believe that most people in indiana believe in equality and want civil rights to be enforced for everyone. i believe that to be true. when we pulled out of the conference we weren't directly harming the governor or the legislature. we were, frankly, taking a -- an economic toll on a whole bunch of business leaders who

may not well share the views and opinions of the legislature of the administration. we harmed ourselves. we had an opportunity to go and gain a bunch of prospective customers and others and that was costly for us. we believed that it was the right thing to do. by encouraging moderate voices in indiana to speak up in support of civil rights, i think we've had some effect as a broad community in driving the dialogue there in the right direction. again, i am really pleased to hear some encouraging words out of the governor this morning and i really look forward to those words turning into action that makes a difference. cory: mike olson, cloud era's chief strategy officer. we'll be right back.

cory: i'm cory johnson. this is the best of "bloomberg west." so what if target executives have been able to identify the card hackers? the security company allows companies to track everything connected to a network and executives can check and evpbsht -- and even shut down these end points in just 15 seconds. they raised $15 million to follow the firm's initial investment of $90. the board member is joining the board also joined me here in the studio. >> the first thing that's really unique is the instant response across your network. like how many devices are connected to your internet? most people go one, two. cory: if i think about it, i've probably got a couple dozen. >> but you don't know the number. but imagine a global company. how fast can you figure out which ones are connected, what they're running?

what versions of everything? that's what titanium lets you do in 15 seconds. so you have a million different cash registers, laptops, figure out what's going on on all of them in 15 seconds. cory: is this a big data solution? it's been a focus of your firm. but all that information just all those ip addresses. the example of this company, the lights above us are ip controlled. >> that's what's so fascinating. because in the world of security what matters the most is getting the most up to date information. is making is that over time people will start to gravitate more towards these other new tles coming out because the pricing is much more comparable. it's still shaking out. all of the tle's out there today are very nichee. those are the ones out through the auctioning process.

cory: does it work in the same way as the spiders that do the web searches? they ping different parts over the internet and collect different information? >> the way that the tools used to work and they would go ask all of the computers all at once, what is going on and wait for them to answer. it would take a lot of special hardware. look to the guy to the right of you and to the left of you and find out what is going on there. cory: a buddy system. let's link arms. i get that. that is fascinating. the types of hacks are changing dramatically. we're seeing state-sponsored hacks like the sony hack by north korea. >> they are multi-stepped.

they often involve something that looks legitimate and involve a combinags of programs and networking. cory: we have seen a lot of case where is someone gets into the network and says there for months or even a year. >> right. then they plant program over here that talks to a program over here and starts to collect information and sends it. what it lets you do is let's you this information of what is going on in your network and which machines are sending information out over the network. when you understand that a breach is going on you're often given a pattern. look for these three programs on different machines. but you have no way of knowing at all. cory: i don't get it. if some of these hacks are slow why does it matter if --

>> it is a great question. today what you see, the breaches are using these known infiltrations but certain patterns or arrangements around the company and they take time. the problem is you can't figure out they are going on. once you figure out something is happening, you need to shut it down. the way to think of it, you learn about i just got a memo from one of the security companies telling me to look for these things on my network. the problem is there is no way to do that. they are called indicators or compromise. they are literally in the inbox of every security professional. it literally takes days to go through each one. tanium takes seconds. those play a role but most of the time you can't predict what is going on in the network and you have to react and respond.

nick:: the best of "bloomberg west" will be right back. . .

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♪ cory: you are watching the best of "bloomberg was," where we focus on the best of innovation and technology. this web hosting company godaddy is known for its sexy commercials featuring danica patrick. here is go daddy's ceo blake irving talking about the company's target customer. blake: we help some of you take their idea online and run there does -- run their business of a digital entity, and that is our business. cory: so public again godaddy

sporting $4 billion, but also lost money last year. for more perspective on this tough business, i talked to one of the biggest competitors. >> it depends on the domain of the marketplace, the product is similar no matter who you buy from. if you expand the landscape out beyond the web presence to include mobile app web building, it is competitive, but tell wins in this market have been pretty amazing. a number of small businesses wanted to come online, want to use these services. there is a real seachange in this market. i would say over the last five years even, so that is benefiting everybody, including ourselves and the folks over at godaddy and other places. cory: yeah. so what is that seachange?

when i read the process -- the perspective sat -- the prospectus at godaddy -- hari: the pivotal happens when social got really popular. when you think of small business, even somebody who does not have a web presence or even a domain, when their customers start asking them where exactly they can find them online, that really started this sort of movement of these small businesses that were off-line starting to think about hey, i need to be online, i need to be able to talk to them online which meant they had to go out and start getting a web presence. i think that has been the real crux of it is these off-line businesses wanted to come online because it drives value for their business. what we have done somewhat difference is we do not leave with branding or off-line marketing. we market almost entirely online and we art customers out with a web presence so our profile is

different. our bottom line cash flow is very comparable to godaddy, but our top line is not as high because we start with a higher price point. whether the strategy worked or not, clearly they have a great skill business that is growing nicely. the pivoting notch of the next stage of evolution to get more people into additional products is a pretty smart strategy, i think. cory: the next on domain name has been a carrot at the end of the stick, everyone who owns the dot com name cocacola.com and cocacola.net, they will run out and want cocacola.berlin or whatever. at that movement is not really happened.

is that a shimmer out there, is that business ever going to pick up? hari: overtime this is going to get better and create tailwind in the market because really in the domain market where we do not necessarily compete what has been happening is a real supply-side imbalance where if you go in and look for a particular domain eight out of 10 times you will find that is not available. somebody has already bought it, you have to go to the secondary market and pay a lot of additional dollars to be able to get that domain. cory: there are companies like web.com buying the domain for the customer wants it, incurring the cost. will the customer wanted? hari: when you have a choice of cory.com for $5,000 or cory.abc or cory.xyz for a much better price committee that the market is making his over time people will gravitate toward these newer tle's coming out because

the price is more comparable. it is ill shaking out. all of the tle's out there today are still very niche. those are the ones out through the auctioning process. what is going to happen over the course of this year and next year are more generic ones are going to come out. like dot web that will be a popular one where people will say i can be part of that dot web revolution coming up. cory: that was hari ravichandran of endurance international. the death of "bloomberg west" will be right back. ♪

cory: this is the best of "bloomberg west." i'm cory johnson. bmw is counting on technology to help it keep its lead against rivals like audi and mercedes in

the luxury market. caught up with the ceo ludwig village on the floor of the new york auto show. matt: i'm here and i thought it would be interesting to talk about the high-tech i cars i-line that they have out. you happen to drive the i-3. when you told me that i couldn't believe it. you said it's got the dna in it. ludwig: absolutely. that is why i drive it. the way it drives it's so agile it's light, it's great as far as acceleration is concerned. that's all you need for a commute. this is what the car is meant for. matt: so the i-3 is an all electric car. you can get it with a range extender but that doesn't drive the axel.

it's completely green in that sense. ludwig: it is. it's green in the sense it's emission free. but we think it's also very important that the whole production is very sustainable. we start producing the carbon fiber in places like washington washing with hydro power. we just use water to produce it. we don't have any electricity outside of our own plant necessary. then the car is built in germany with wind power, so the whole production cycle, we also use about half of the water we would use otherwise, so the production is much more sustainable, much more emission-free than anybody else can produce a car, which we think as far as the carbon footprint is concerned, really important if you talk about sustainability of an automobile. matt: i have yet to drive the i-3 myself. i have had the pleasure of driving the i-8, and it is shockingly amazing. the grip is incredible, the way it lays down power is so smooth

and linear. and this is a concept that i think your competitors are finally catching on to. the fact that you can have this hybrid green power train and still have so much power. i mean, it's almost like you feel whatever the opposite of green is, but you're still doing something good for the environment. ludwig: absolutely. it's the best of two worlds. the stunning looks of the super car. it's the performance of the super car. you can even sit four people -- at least on a shorter journey -- and you have more than 70 miles to the gallon. this is something that hasn't been accomplished by anybody else. again, it's the sustainable production method that really makes the car stick out as far as sustainability is concerned. matt: what do you think is the future of bmw power trains? in your regular come in the 3 series come in the 5 series, are we going to see electric power alongside gasoline and diesel engines? norbert: we will. we will have plug-in hybrids for all the major models, and that's

the future we think that you will be able to do both. you drive electrically in the city, but use the conventional drive train for the freeways. matt: what about the future of connectivity? i think the i-drive is the best system as far as infotainment systems. but this in-car tech is being more important especially in silicon valley. where is bmw heading with that? norbert: it's not only in ludwig: it is not only in silicon valley. people are interested in getting more connectivity to get information at their fingertips that they want to have while they're driving, but it's also about having some little helpers like self-parking. whenever it's not so much fun to drive a bmp, electronics kick in and help you. that's what it's all about. matt: obviously the ultimate driving machine is the slogan i grew up with.

and when i get behind the wheel of a bmw i want to drive myself. but are we going to see the day when there's an autonomous bmw? ludwig: maybe if you're really in a bad traffic situation you will be able to engage autonomous driving because it's no fun. you can then review e-mails or read a book, whatever you want. but as soon as you want to drive again, you decide yourself it should always support the driver but don't dominate the driver. cory: that was our matt miller with bmw's north american ceo. the best of "bloomberg west" will be right back. ♪

cory: this is the best of "bloomberg west." i'm cory johnson. it is one of the most talked about app debuts in recent memory. we are talking about the live streaming app meerkat.

four weeks after launching, it raised $14 million in funding and quite quickly. the app lets users live broadcast videos and comments from their smart phone to twitter. they can't replay or save the video. it is snapchat meets facetime all that and more. and the best is though could they already be behind it? it's fallen from number 140 to 523 last week. i put that very question to meerkat's ceo ben rubin. ben: it's not that early in our venture. actually we've been in the live video space for more than 2-1/2 years now. we've known success and failures before. one thing that is very interesting to see about meerkat is that it was actually able to unlock behavior of live-streaming behavior. like people that wouldn't live stream otherwise are now live streaming.

cory: so we're meerkating right now as we're having this conversation. is that your phone? ben: yes. cory: and there we are. and so if people want to watch this kind of a broadcast while it's happening, what do they do? they log on to -- ben: the moment you go live, it is live-stream published on twitter. everyone who follows you gets a notification. and people can watch you from web or from phone. cory: and they can go to my twitter account or your twitter account? ben: yes. if you are commenting on that, that will be shown on your twitter account. yes, that's correct. cory: so talking about how that business works. right when you launched, first you launched that sxsw right? ben: no. we launched at product con actually. it was just a side project. the company -- we had a product of live video and we closed that. it was maybe 400,000 users we had. we shut it down and went to this exploratory mode when we said we're going to release a very

simple product every two months. and one of them was meerkat. the first thing that we had. we had like six experience. the first thing that we had was meerkat. and we put it on product hunt on the 27th of february. and we did not plan to put it at south by, but the community was extremely supportive. cory: there's also the sort of search for the next big thing. twitter was first launched at sxsw. so ever since, people have been trying to find the next twitter. ben: it was out nine months. before sxsw. but i think there is a cultural readiness, there is a technological readiness. cory: crown the next king? ben: no. we don't look at it as kings or queens or anything. it's more about -- is the technology now allows a different behavior that could be impactful in a meaningful way?

right? and if we can allow people to participate, a large audience to participate in happening by removing friction from going live, by removing friction by watching in different places in the world, and everyone can watch live stream from their pockets basically, or stream live video from their phones in their pocket, that means that the cost to go live and to distribute to a large audience is literally zero now. cory: i wonder what people are commenting right now as we look at the comments as they come across. but i also wonder, instantly twitter announces they're going to kind of pull the rug out from you in being able to map the social graph on top of whatever that social graph is, but also twitter announcing a competitive product. is that a sign of success to you? ben: yes. definitely for the space. for us, twitter was always thing a launching pad. we didn't expect to be this like -- to be so much, to be receptive -- like for people to receive us so well in the beginning.

and obviously we understand twitter and the business decision that it's making. and it's also a good, good sign to see that the company that is very smart with a great product like twitter is doing steps in this direction. cory: that was meerkat ceo ben rubin. for more on the battle between meerkat and twitter's periscope, i spoke with product hunt's ryan hoover. ryan: they launched at product hunt. cory: so to me the launch of meerkat and twitter is on top of it not letting everyone gravitate to them, what do you make of that?

ryan: it is interesting that many others are in this live streaming space at the same time. this happens frequently. it's not that twitter is copying them or vice versa. and it's just these, the change of behavior and technology is i think forcing people to look more at live streaming as an actual medium. cory: what are the inspirations? facetime or snapchat? ryan i believe it has created : this behavior of people being willing to share their face and themselves in public. and then there's of course technology, bandwidth, the screens are better on phones. everyone has this live streaming device in their pocket nowadays. cory: when i look at businesses and try to figure out -- you can have the best idea in the world. you're not going to win. ryan: right. cory: but when you look at businesses that are marketplaces versus when they're -- the new york stock exchange, it took decades to happen. ebay has a lock on online auctions still despite the efforts of some well heeled competitors like amazon. is there room for lots of different services like this, or will everyone go to where everyone is because that's who you're sharing with?

ryan there's certainly a lot of : room and there's different niches that appear. twitch tv, which was purchased by amazon recently -- cory: it is huge. ryan: yes, it is massive. both are extremely early. who knows how they will converge or diverge over time. their audience mace be different in the long run but it's so early. meerkat launched months ago, meerkat periscope last week. cory: i guess i wonder, is the existing social graph like facebook knows who my friends are and i curate that by kicking people off or meeting new people. linkedin has a different graph of me. twitter a third graph. but there's a lot of overlapping. but are -- is there an expectations of these businesses that people will have dozens of social graphs or that the couple of companies who own that will own everything on top of that? brian that's a good question. : meerkat launched using

twitter's graph. and they use the follow graph and other things. i think the tv graph is very relevant to maybe a twitter but it could be different as well. the people you watch on tv are different. cory: that's product hunt's ryan hoover. we'll be right back. ♪

cory: this is the best of "bloomberg west." i'm cory johnson. over the holiday weekend chances are you might be drinking some wine. it's easter after all. vino is an interesting young business. it lets users catalog and purchase their favorite wine. even has a data base of over 300,000 restaurant wine lists with reviews. we got the details from --

>> we think that people should drink what they like. and a lot of cases people don't know what they like. cory: as long as they're not driving. heini: exactly. cory: i don't want them to be in their car right now. heini: please wait until later. so people might know that i like this particular wine but they don't know what it is. so with us you can actually see what types do you like what do you not like and so on. you learn more about your own taste. the way it works is with the smart phone you snap a picture of the label. what happens on the back end? heini: it ships that picture to our serves and compares to our massive data base of wine images. we have 130 million pictures of wine labels. compared to that few seconds comes back to you with a rating, review, everything. and if your friends have the wine, cory had this wine, rated two stars, did not like it whatever we have on your social network.

cory: back to this discovery. it's so hard the experience of going to a wine store and buying wine is fairly unique in retail where the retailer has so much influence over the purchasers, maybe more than any other industry. does this start to change that model a little bit? heini: i think it's going to move people towards where they start learning more about themselves. when you talk about retail another thing is actually restaurants. we built this wine list scanner. we take a photo of the wine list itself. we go through every single line and put a rating, which makes the experience a lot easier. cory: so i look at the wine list, say i don't know what to get here. the staff is laughing. but it literally rates it on the phone? heini: yeah. we take the picture and put the rating right next to every single wine, which helps you make a better decision.

some are great but they don't know you as well as vino knows you. cory: your revenue model is what? heini: we're going to help you find your next wine so we're going to point you towards retailers that sell this wine. it's sort of an e-commerce place. we're never going to ship wine directly. we'll have sellers. cory: will you get paid that way or piece of the purchase? heini: it could be both actually. exactly right. cory: i would take a percentage. heini: yes. when cory's buying we definitely want a percent. cory: but is that how the business is going to work? heini: yes. kind of more of a paper click in the beginning but percentage in the long term. cory: and finally, where do you see your biggest growth? what's the demographic? heini: there's no doubt about the millenials are coming in now. 30 million say that regular wine drinkers. and they have a different way of thinking because they are more open to trying new things.

they're used to going to restaurants and checking yelp before. cory: we will see you next week.

ryan chilcote: what began in crimea is now playing out in eastern ukraine. >> this is utter destruction. i mean, i have been in demolition sites, war zones. i have never seen anything like this. but the outcome here is far less certain. we are going to stay low because we just heard a burst of gunfire. war has returned to europe. right on the outskirts of donetsk, and as you can hear there is a significant battle underway. it is west versus east. and it is slav versus slav. we have come to the front line s and gone into the mines. this is not a good place to go if