>> from our studios in new york, this is "charlie rose." charlie: we begin with politics. senator rand paul announced his decision to run for president in 2016. he is the second republican candidate after ted cruz to officially enter the race. rand paul is the only libertarian republican candidate. senator paul: we have come to take our country back from the special interests that use washington as their personal piggy bank, that are more concerned with their personal welfare, then the general

welfare. the washington machine that gobbles up our freedoms and invades every note and cranny of our lives must be stopped. too often when republicans have won, we have squandered our victory by becoming part of the washington machine. that is not who i am. charlie: joining me now is mark halperin of bloomberg politics also john heilemann. they are part of the show "with all due respect." tell me about the announcement, and the outlines of his candidacy, and how he sees an self getting the nomination. mark: 1500 people in this hotel, a well choreographed events. introduced by his wife, kelly paul.

then he gave a speech which was his message. some of the rougher edges shaved off, the libertarian agenda. his father was in the audience. photographers could not capture very easily the two of them in the same shot. this is a guy who was not afraid. he has underrated strength in the early voting states. he believes he can go by the mantra that john and i created for him that says the republican party is too small and the government is too big, and that he will stand out. it was a different kind of message. it is a bet that the fight will be different. he can't win if the roles of the -- if the rules are the same. if they are different he will be a finalist.

john: people said he was the republican obama. there were a lot of republican -- a lot of problems with that. the way that obama won the election was by appealing to not just in a craft, but democrats. ted cruz is trying to get more of the same republicans. rand paul has a obama like pitch. he wants to appeal to young voters. he wants to appeal to voters who have not taken part in the process before. he wants to appeal to independents, and he wants to appeal to some democrats. charlie: an african americans. john: he said he wanted to repeal any law that had a disproportionate impact on minorities in terms of incarceration. that is most of the criminal justice. that is a rather striking thing to say. will that help him win the election? there are reasons to be skeptical. in a place like iowa, where he

starts with a built-in base of his father's supporters, many of those people will stick with them. he inherits the wisdom of those supporters who his father god. tens of thousands of them. he starts there any can use those lists and look for like-minded voters, then preach this gospel that is different from standard republicanism right now. on foreign policy, on civil liberties. he has a chance to make that catch of expanding the universe. charlie: he is having to backpack from the isolationism. john: that is his biggest problem. the traditional strength and military assertiveness, which have not been his calling card. they are predominant in the party. he is trying to get into a more conventional place. charlie: is iowa crucial? cruise has a claim in iowa. john: if you look at jeb bush, scott walker, marco rubio, those

are establishment -- welker is playing both sides. bush and rubio are going to be establishment candidate and put a lot of ships in new hampshire. if you are one of these other guys running into any establishment bracket, iowa becomes important. you have to put a win on the board somewhere. iowa is the better opening for ted cruz, my cut could become up rick santorum. they have some built-in advantages. there's going to be a big scrub trying to get out through that to chock a win up in the hawkeye state. charlie: we've had two announcements. ted cruz and rand paul. what is most impressive so far? john: there are two different kind of announcements. cruz's announcement was powerful rhetorically.

he gave a great speech. the crowd was there by force. they were students who did not come to that event. the enthusiasm level was lower. he is great on stage. with paul it is harder to george -- to judge. it was a more enthusiastic room. he is not a great orator. when it came to his oratorical athleticism, his ability to command the stage he was not as potent. he is trying to show he is a big time operator. he has an organization and place in iowa welcome in iowa, new hampshire, south carolina, other places that demonstrates organizational muscle. inherited from his father, not entirely, but that is a different kind of strength. charlie: is that what this is about? the republicans on the right

tea party want to see someone early on clear the field so they can go against hillary because they think the establishment has each time won the nomination and each time lost the general election. john: there is no doubt the anti-establishment part of the party does not want to see the establishment part win. mark suggested they want to show they are the ascending part of the book and party and another establishment nominee will not win against hillary clinton. i don't think anybody has any assumption there is going to be a clearing of the field until we get to iowa. the interesting thing is that the party, even in the establishment wing, there are people who like jeb bush but are concerned about the notion that you would run a bush against the clinton, and you would forfeit the argument of we are new, the

future. there are people in this town who are big on wall street. jeb bush is raising a ton of money. if the go around wall street are people looking at scott walker people who are going to write checks for marco rubio. he is supposed to announce monday. they are establishment players writing checks for marco rubio. there is just quiet about jeb bush. what he has not done in his shock and awe, he has established he's going to raise a ton of money. what he has not done is clear the field. there were people who thought if you raise $100 million in the first quarter, marco rubio would not run against him. the establishment side would say bush already has two much support, step back. no one is running away, running

scared of him now. they are looking at the poll numbers and see he is -- he has real problems on common core with large segments of the electorate. no one is running scared of jeb bush even though he looks strong. no one thinks he looks unstoppable. charlie: what is the latest on hillary clinton? john: she just announced a lease on a place in brooklyn for her campaign headquarters. charlie: what was behind that? john: she is from new york. she is went to run this out of new york. that was clear. some would say she wanted a hip, youthful coolness of brooklyn. it is like the upper east side. there is nothing hidden or cool. it is a perfectly nice neighborhood. a lot of people work for her

campaign will live in brooklyn. it is easy in terms of access to the airport, which matters a lot. it was more about logistics. charlie: when will she announce? john: any day. sunday, this coming sunday or a few days after that would be the likeliest time. charlie: within a week. john: within a week. charlie: thank you for coming. back with us. ♪

charlie: this year marks the 150th anniversary of "the nation" magazine. it was founded in 1865, focusing on corporate power. katrina vanden heuvel has been the editor for 20 years. she started as an intern. i am pleased to have her back. what has it meant to you go -- what has it meant to you? katrina: "the nation" was where i learned about journalism. where i learned about america. where i learned the boot camp. it was a school. it is what you don't learn in university. you don't learn about it in school but it was a sense of coming in that 19 years old, and

there was christopher hitchens from london and in exchange, kai bird, christopher came to the office. it was a lot of whirling discussion and argument. it was a place where you learned about debate. civil, uncivil. you learned about dissent and rebellion. it was a space, a physical space for freethinkers and dissenters. then the pages where it's built over an edited. it was a great school. but it was a fun, exciting literary political place. you talked about civil rights, corporate power. it has a great literary tradition, which one was steeped in with bessie dakota. taking on norman mailer.

james baldwin, hannah arendt. what you learn when you got there, william faulkner, let me get it right, the past isn't past. you learned about a james baldwin. you would go back into the archives. now they are digitized. but the volume is for you would read a james baldwin from 1966 report from occupied territory harlem, where he talks about stop and frisk. then you think today, as i work with younger writers in this moment of turbulence around black lives matter, they are younger riders who are younger riders were going back into archives digitally, learning so much from an extraordinary writer like james baldwin, who was on our editorial board for many years and wrote his first piece, a review.

there was a sense of great literature, a great turbulence. charlie: you mentioned christopher hitchens. christopher hitchens. mary ivan. martin luther king. katrina: he wrote an annual essay on the state of the civil rights movement from 1961-1966. he began stop economic justice. which is where he was. he was speaking to the garbage collectors. he wasn't just in the pages. in 1967 before he gave his riverside speech, coming out against vietnam, at an event in los angeles in 1967, he came out against the war, when you were the 50th anniversary of the sending of american troops to vietnam "the nation" --

heretical ideas in one moment can be common sense a generation later. bernard fall the great historian , of vietnam, he wrote in the pages of "the nation" maybe a negotiated solution will be better than a military solution. charlie: this is the 150th anniversary edition. katrina: nearly two years in the works. there's a piece in there, we spent almost two years. izzy stone, a great journalist who understood maybe it is better to not go to too many dinner parties with those documents. governments often lie.

we decided to understand the history. we didn't do an anthology. a lot of places i have done an anthology. we did one for the 100th. this has great archival material. charlie: you quote the first editor -- female editor. anniversaries should be approached without all. katrina: if you approach it with too much awe it suggests you are in the past. we want to say we are here, we are present, we have survived. survival -- charlie: it is hard to survive as a journal of opinion. katrina: absolutely. there are different reasons for survival. i would suggest that one is independence. not only independence of thought, but independence of ownership. our backers have cared more about what we stood for than what we made.

we are always happy to bring in partners web and interesting financial structure. charlie: was paul newman part of that? katrina: paul newman was a partner. we have a great circle who give. but keeps the nation alive are those who give small amounts. $25, $100. there is a sense of community. charlie: you are planning a new website. katrina: part of the future. you have had different editors here. the old order is changing. we are in a revolutionary, transitional time. you have to have a foot in different places. right now we are read on all kinds of tablets and platforms. on the actual birthday when these young abolitionists launched "the nation," we

launched the site, which is going to be intelligent, innovative, and bring younger readers. charlie: i want to view two clips. our great friend, this is in 2003, on his view of the magazine. here he is. charlie: you write for "the nation". are your politics right there with them? >> they have always accused me of being insufficiently political. letting the agony of the scottsboro boys dim from my memory. i did say once on a television show, someone said i was in boston with a book of nation columns. a guy said, how would you describe the magazine? i said pinko. it's a pinko magazine. and he said, surely you have

more to say than that. i said yes, printed on very , cheap paper. it is the sort of magazine that if you have a piece in the magazine and you get a xerox copy, the copy is better than the original. charlie: are your politics in the nation, is that where you are on the spectrum? or is it none of my business? >> it is certainly your business. i agree more with "the nation" than the national review. [laughter] katrina: i love going cruising. charlie: you were struck by the continuing conversations of the contributors. they stay part of the conversation. katrina: to go from bad to this, one of the great impulses and principles of the nation has been anti-imperialism, opposition to reckless wars. the spanish-american war

vietnam war, into iraq. i speak about in iraq because i was editor then. charlie: both the iraq wars? katrina: i'm thinking through 2002. you had a great correspondent, the continuing series. that was a defining moment. it was not popular. "the nation" is not often popular. many of the liberal media decided to go with the run-up to the war in 2002. "the nation" opposed. here again i come back to the fact that what is heretical or sometimes is common sense. everyone believes iraq was a debacle. it has played out in the sectarian shiite struggles. there was an animating impulse

that this was contrary to american tradition. preemptive war. unconstitutional. related to that was the betrayal of our principles. civil liberties have been a part of the tradition. the patriot act, the torture which we started writing about in 2003, one of our young writers, looking at the media and averting in size from torture. this is part of the impulse. "the nation" and the founders -- you can see the continuities. charlie: you and victor are close. katrina: he is a mentor in many ways. he is a non-interventionist mentor. he jokes that he is there to tell me ideas. he was my predecessor.

he has a brilliant essay in this issue. victors passion through the years has been the mccarthy era. he wrote an extraordinary book "naming names." in this essay, it is about what i write about in my introduction, there always alternatives. his piece is looking at mccarthyism, that time in the 50's and 60's, or hooverism. the ideas that were stigmatized, the people who's voices were marginalized. the conformity that was enforced in the name of a false fear of communism. that is a correspondence between time. the fear we continue to live with that undermines the very principles --

charlie: take a look at this. the legacy of "the nation." >> our magazine has been a historic identification with the distance since. -- with the dispossessed. it grew out of the abolitionists movement. its charter was to follow the plight of the newly freed slaves. simultaneous with that was a journalistic ideal that it would tell the truth. wherever it led. you have this double legacy. my two favorite sentences in connection with this are the first sentence in the first issue of the first story, the week were singularly barren of events. as a launching sentence imagine tina brown launching her new magazine. singularly barren of significant events. what that says as we are not going to be a part of the buzz and hype. we are one to tell the truth wherever it leads. charlie: you include some pieces which turn out to be less than

prophetic. katrina: one was, we have henry james writing a scathing review of walt whitman. i think he later came to regret that. whitman survived. of course, the nation at a different point tracks the arc of liberalism. "the nation" was part of the new york post. charlie: then there are people like christopher hitchens. katrina: we have the historian a piece about those who came to the nation as leftists, and who left as apostates. christopher hitchens was one of them. but you also had david horowitz.

christopher left. "the nation" pages were open to him. we were rating -- ready for a fight. he left, a formal socialist. he left in his column saying "the nation" had become a moral. -- amoral. because of the unwillingness to hitches start to the coming war in iraq. there was a black and white to that. it is for people who understand and savor complexity but are pretty for a fight. the complexity when you move from left to right -- charlie: he was always ready for a fight. katrina: by hitching his start to bush's war -- he did tie in. there was a principled stance, so there was a regret when --

and this happens in politics and culture -- you tend to have to join forces. he had a principled stance. as others did. he was a great part of the nation for many years. but, the piece is worth reading for all who see what in our culture there is too much dumbing down, too much passing of debate. charlie: this is a clip from a documentary. >> if you look at the consumer part of washington, it is a tiny part of the budget, a tiny part of the number of government employees. less than 1%. >> there are many stories that "the nation" broke over the years. a harvard law student named ralph nader did this expose of automobile safety. "the nation" was one of the first places to expose the link

between cigarette smoking and cancer. it is not accidental that a magazine that had no car advertising in it, had no cigarette advertising in it broke these stories. katrina: ralph nader continues to call me to this day. charlie: with ideas? katrina: berating me for what we are not doing. and he has ideas. you have to respect the tenacity. he came on the cruise. when he came on the ship, he wanted to throw them overboard. by the end of that there was great respect. what saddens me is that there is a younger generation that doesn't remember, they did bring us the weekend. he brought a seat belts. they think of him, and "the nation" has a respect for third parties, there were barricades gore or nader.

but he is a man of integrity you have to respect that tenacity. charlie: so where is "the nation" today as it celebrates 150 years? how does it make its way among a different media landscape? katrina: i think the different media landscape worries me less. we are testing. we have a demographic on the web , we have mobile, and digital. charlie: you also want to use the web for instant access. katrina: that is downloadable. that is the issue. the history of the magazine, we have digitized archives. we don't know where this is heading. a few years ago the conventional wisdom more people would not read longform journalism on the internet. that has been upended. part of "the nation" is

challenging the orthodoxy. where we heading? i believe this is a country where we need rebellious dissident voices. we need quality journalism. you need to push the parameters of what seems possible. we are in early alert. reporting on cuba, we ship history. we warned when glass-steagall was repealed what it would lead to. we prefigured occupy and the discussion and equality. charlie: the many battles are still issues facing the country. katrina: absolutely. "the nation", i don't believe in lost causes. i believe in causes waiting to be one. there are a lot of causes

waiting to be one. i'm excited because i think it is interruption. it is a movement moment. "the nation" has been a reporter of movements in the change, the deep transformational moments change can bring. whether it is the climate maybe march, it is the immigrant rights movement, whether it is fast food workers, the student debt strike. these are moments we are in touch with. as the same time i am a firm believer in inside, outside. you need principled leaders inside the system. the debate around selma, king, johnson, that goes on today. you need elizabeth worn inside or progressive voices we lift up. if people don't learn there are people like that, they're not going to make the leap. charlie: would you like to see

elizabeth warren run? katrina: i would like to see a contested competitor primary. i think elizabeth warren is someone who speaks more clearly, more powerfully, more plainly about the crisis of this country, the rig system. many any other candidate. i think the presidential election and the system, and the money primary is so brutal, i worry that one would lose the crystal-clear power of her voice on the issues she is passionate about, and she would have to take a stance on so many others. charlie: thank you again. back in a moment. stay with us. ♪

charlie: the artist studio has been a fascination among artists and viewers throughout history. the spaces where art is made helps explain the spirit of the times and the might of a kreider. -- the mind of a creator. it is the subject at the gagosian gallery. paintings and photographs, they present nearly 200 works exploring the studios development over several centuries. join me are john elderfield and peter gallasi.

where did this project began? john: a friend of mine had been to the studio. he called me the next day and said effectively this is like no studio i have seen. it is like a workshop with lots of people. and led to thinking what have studios been like over the years? where did they start? what was the difference? artists always worked in these. looking for images of them, and realizing the history of them is so broad. going over centuries. you can't actually do a survey. charlie: the most prominent artist was lucian freud. he took me upstairs where there

was a lot of light. then there was another part that was totally dark. he works there doing different things. it was fascinating to see this place where so much creation came out of. you looked at photography. he is looking at paintings. peter: we talk about the show when we first worked. it never got done there. john asked me if i wanted to do a companion show of photographs, which is a totally other kind of question, because the default thing for paintings is there made in the steve engle -- in the studio. charlie: david sylvester's idea. here is him talking about his studio.

>> i am not just working alone in a room. i have 130 people in my studio. a hundred people work at the foundry in germany. i am affecting the lives of a lot of people. we are involved with art. everybody is getting a better understanding of art. we are creating these things. i first started to work with people when i went to a foundry. i don't have a foundry. i don't have facilities to cast myself. you learn how to work with people and to trust working with people. charlie: you are doing this at gagosian. i would have expected you to do this at moma. john: i was originally. moma has a rule that senior people have to leave at 65 years old.

i had three exhibitions. i realize if i try to do all of them, i would be at moma still. we agreed i would not do that. when larry asked me to do a show at the gallery, i said i know exactly what i would like to do. i would like to do a show of artist studios. he said great. charlie: both of these exhibitions reach the threshold of art but do not cross it. peter: essentially because of the size. there is actually it turns out by accident, this was at the last minute, the gallery was able to install a video installation on the sixth floor of 980 madison, which is one of the works we would have wanted to include in a contemporary

section. but it takes up a whole gallery. charlie: where does the artist studio stand? john: at the top and the bottom. there are some of the most sublime paintings of studios like rembrandt and velasquez. on the bottom ends, massive, silly paintings of things like schoolboys leering at models and children painting, and fantasies of the love life of the old masters. there are lots of these things. as the subject became popular, it was almost as if someone could say i would like to have a painting in a studio with a horse and someone would provide it. charlie: can you look at the evolution and say there were moments that change, reflective moments in the nature of the studio?

peter: sure. in photography it is a different story. charlie: how so? peter: there is the genre of the artist in his studio, that began at the end of the 19th century. there are wonderful pictures that belong to that genre. but it hasn't been terribly rewarding for the art of photography. i to the different approach. charlie: was there anything you wanted to include that you wanted to be part of this wouldn't? john: i got lucky. we ended up borrowing a few pictures from a lot of different places. most of the leading american collections charlie:. this is an obvious question.

has the appreciation of photography as an art form increased rapidly? or has it always been? peter: it is from the 1970's until now. charlie: in terms of collections. peter: in terms of the market. charlie: as art. even though you had remarkable artists before who were photographers. when you do this, tell me how studios evolved in postwar era. john: this was one of the big changes. at the beginning, when all this started, in the 16th century, it was artists and models. there was not much interest in the environment. gradually there was more and more interest in showing what

the space was like in all these different kinds of studio pictures. by the end of the 19th century it had faded out. there was some great fantasy studio pictures. basically, with modern art and the narrowing of pictorial space, the idea of painting enclosed spaces was less prominent. eventually by the time after the second world war, in the united states, after the whole thing had almost collapsed, there weren't really ambitious studio paintings. they came back with paintings of the walls of studios, with materials that are in studios, and there was this great renaissance of the genre. it is fascinating, genre can be strong in one period, be strong

out, then come back again. charlie: in the paintings, you did them chronologically. john: the show begins with paintings which a group of things from the cost so. i didn't want us to be right at the beginning chronological. i thought people would think we embarked on a survey. there is an introductory gallery. then it moves chronologically. charlie: let's take a look. john: rather than have one example of several kinds of things, i wanted six examples of windows. to do it on the outside basis.

so this is jerome, 1890, a french artist. well known for these meticulous paintings. looking at it, you see the realism of that is to convince you this is what the studio looks like. actually, it is obviously staged. that model could not hold that position for very long. this is from the beginning of the 1950's. this looks to be a fantasy, but it isn't. his studio looks like that. these are judas dolls, which were used in mexican religious ceremonies.

the one on the left actually has a no smoking sign attached to it. this painting belongs to the military of finance in mexico, and was a huge problem to borrow. it has never been in this country before. it is an amazing thing. charlie: how did you get it? john: a lot of work. [laughter] 60 e-mails. charlie: pablo picasso. this is from 1928. i always for bait everyone to clean my studio. i counted on the protection of dust. it is my ally. i always let it settle where it live. john: this is a wonderful painting. originally it was more articulated and colored. gradually he edited out with the

white of the studio wall, so that it is representation. one can imagine it is not in the deep space. it is flattened out. this is what becomes the in normative later on. charlie: next is just for john. john: this is what happens eventually. this is a painting of a studio wall. this is in the exhibition the climax of the evolution. images of the works on the wall, there is a plaster cast of an arm, which is what we find in earlier paintings, and a painting with it leaning against the wall. charlie: the next? john: artist materials.

charlie: attributes of the painter. john: this is the 18th century. he really invented this idea of making paintings of the materials a painter uses, the objects that a musician uses. this is something which continues in the history of studio paintings while representing the materials. in this case, you realize the painting was made with the pallet you see in it. this is augustin, after having been an abstract painter, move back to figuration. this belongs to the dallas museum.

you can see the materials there. you can see his lunch. charlie: you have said that it is no surprise to say that the studio became his of session. john: there are so many. there could be 50 paintings of his studio. charlie: one last one. this is from jim dime. 1963. john: this is a surprising painting. the materials. the pallets. they are six feet tall. he has made the construction of two canvases representing a pallet, and the cast-iron stove, which was familiar in studios in the 19th century, is referenced by this thing that jumps across the corner of the room.

it was made at the beginning of the 1960's. charlie: let's turn to the photography. we had andre, 1926. peter: he made them in paris, a whole body of work where he managed to treat other artist studios as a playground for his imagination. he has turned his back and is looking into the staircase. a very inventive picture. charlie: the next thing, constantine. peter: a great sculptor. he was also a great photographer. in some of his marvelous pictures of his own studio, he arranges sculptures and makes photographs of them. here he brings them alive like cartoon characters.

the wooden figure is as if he is meeting the animal off in the background. charlie: the next is my favorite photographer. peter: when he was still a prisoner of war, he had gotten a commission to photograph artists for a book that eventually never got published. here he has photographed the arrangement of pictures that were dear to him. charlie: richard avedon. peter: perfect for this. the great model, suzy parker whether on her own where the suggestion of him, has taken the black cloth and made a part of her costume.

in the same spirit, he has moved his camera back to include the studio as part of the picture. the way the setup is supposed to work is the black background is supposed to isolate the figure in space. charlie: the next one. peter: this is from the section about the studio as a place pfor posing. he has captured the spirit of bettie page, displaying herself to the photographers. charlie: today, 2015, how much painting of studios? is it art on the wall? how much photography of studios? peter: the whole world has changed. some people say it is the world of post studio. a lot of art is made out in the world.

you have an awful lot of things happening at the same time. charlie: you talk about three themes emerging. persona, embarrassment of images. peter: the last is the one where the bernard studio is. it actually is one of the areas where there is a commonality between the exhibitions. john: one of the artists that links the two is russian berg -- rashionberg. there was a wonderful painting which is like part of the studio wall. charlie: you said the past is challenged by original art.

john: i think it is. part of being motivation of art is to take on the art of the past. in the end, there is a great monument of the past, which is never going to be surpassed. they are the things which people have to work against, and learn from. they will never succeed if they simply try and repeat. this is what our continues to change. charlie: are we looking of the discovery of a man who was a great curator at moma, retires at 65 years old, and has discovered a new life that he can curate as long as he wants to because of the presence of certain significant operators or institutions?

[laughter] peter: john is also working on a exhibition of portraits that will open in a conventional season. charlie: can you tell us when that will open? john: at the musee d'orsay in 2017. my hope is that it is possible to have one foot on a side of the table. charlie: it is great to see you. thank you for joining us. see you next time. ♪

>> live from pier three in san francisco, welcome to "bloomberg west." i am cory johnson. here is a check on your bloomberg top headlines. dzhokhar tsarnaev was convicted on all 30 counts, including the use of a weapons of mass destruction. here is massachusetts governor charlie baker. >> i am glad the verdict is in. based on everything i saw, i have no problem with it. i think it this point, it is up to the jury to make the decision about what happens next.