♪ >> from our studios in new york city, this "charlie rose. charlie: conan brian is here. he has an hosting late-night television since 1993, when david letterman steps down next week conan will be the longest-serving host of late-night. it is a landscape undergoing dramatic changes both in terms of its host and how it is being consumed. it was the first time a late-night host taped show in cuba since 1959. i'm very pleased to have conan o'brien back at this table.

conan: i'm the old guy now. those are crazy times. one of the first shows i came on in 1993 was this show. no one thought i was going to make it. you were very nice to me. if we looked at that appearance now, it would look like in -- "i love lucy" cast. charlie: you had not done much performing when you took up with that show. conan: no. i had not done nearly the amount of performing one should have done to get a late-night show. it was a complete fluke. to this day i credit lorne michaels. he saw something and he said this kid can do it. but that was such a different time, 1993, that there was no footage of me that existed. the media could not find

footage. can you imagine today how much footage there is of everybody, there would be hundreds of hours of footage of me that i have posted on youtube and everyone would have it. there was not an existing photograph of me when they announced me for the late-night show. i remembered they were taking photographs of -- i think my appearance on "the tonight show" -- they took photographs of the tv screens. [laughter] charlie: doing what you do -- and you know the difference because you now have a show similar to this online -- it is dramatically different from what you do. you think comedy every moment, don't you? conan: pretty much since 1978. i think about it all the time. charlie: david letterman was here. he said, i would love to have the luxury you have because i am as curious as you are. my mind, i think about the joke rather than simply being curious with someone.

conan: there's a certain pressure when you are hosting a show to help guide performers through their material. you don't have the freedom to always go exactly where you might want to go. i also love to have a conversation and go. and learn something. i tried to read as much as i can. i still think i have a curious mind, it is within the confines of doing a comedy show. you can't just sit back and maybe ask all the questions you would want to ask. charlie: with david letterman stepping down, what is his magic and why is he so revered for who he is? conan: i read a piece for "e.w." magazine, and i was proud of it.

it kind of summed up what i think is main contribution was. it takes people back to when his morning show came on the air in 1980. everything he did seemed in that moment wrong. he did not look right, his manner was wrong. everything seemed wrong because he was so original. he was so profoundly original. i think he is respected and revered because he has the whole package, the great innovative writing ideas. he came along at the right moment. carson had been on the air about 20 years, had about 10 more years to go, and had really established the talk show. dave came along and gave us the

anti-talk show. so much of the comedy was so different and he was so not about show business, and he was so outside of show business. his show felt like a revolution to me, and i think it was. i think it was a seismic occurrence. i think it affected a lot of the comedy in the 1980's and 1990's and for years afterwards. charlie: was it about the monologue or all about the skits, chopping watermelons off the top of buildings or the stupid pet tricks or -- conan: those were great tricks. a lot of talk show hosts in the genre have their routines, their bits they assemble overtime. dave's are amazing. an amazing array of great concepts and ideas. he had that, but at the core of it, to me, david letterman is a wit. he is an american wit. he is like a fred allen. he is an authentic, has an authentic, witty mind.

just watching that on display over the years -- and he first showed up, it felt like it was more about the stunts and how different it was, and over time you saw this laserlike mind. a whole generation of people like myself, if we got a chance to be interviewed by him or go on his show, we just wanted to impress him. it is aspirational. a few times in my life i have been told there is a phone call for you and it's from david letterman for some reason or another and the light is blinking, that blinking light has a different look than any other blinking light. it's the same way i felt the one or two times i got to advocat -- have conversations on the telephone with johnny carson. you get on and you are very

aware that -- it's always good to play tennis with somebody who is better than you. for everyone in my generation, david letterman was and is the gold standard. [indiscernible] charlie: that is just a lazy excuse. conan: no, he's constantly looking for a way not to do a show. he just likes to sleep. in tribute to dave on my last night i will show an episode of "kimmel." [laughter] charlie: what are you going to do on his last night? conan: i'm going to try to take some of the spotlight away from dave. [laughter] this is what comics do. i'm going to come out on the air, i'm going to do anything i can. i will be naked that night. no, it's an interesting question.

i have not given it a lot of thought. my nature that night, it was assumed nobody will be watching any of us anyway. what i would like to do is say something pretty much a very nice about david letterman, and it comes from the heart, and we come on before he does until people to turn the channel. if there are nine people watching that night, if i can get eight of them -- then i have been successful. charlie: is the talkshow business at night changing? conan: yes. it's a whole different thing than when i started. when i started -- it's hilarious to talk this way now about the old days, because i feel like i'm talking about the great depression, but when i began in 1993, there were hardly any of these shows.

there was johnny carson's "tonight show." and "arsenio" had been around for a while, but i think he had maybe two years left to go. it felt like it was johnny and it was dave, and in there is "nightline," and that is it. nbc had locked down a monopoly on the whole thing. it was a built-in audience. i can't tell you how many shows there are now. i have lost track. i think there might be 35 late-night shows. there's a ton of them. charlie: i see how many people are on at 11:00. you, me, a lot of people. conan: there's a ton of these shows, the technology changed with cable, then the internet comes along.

tivo comes along, and the ability to watch things out of sequence. the late-night show, it started to become -- i often know that 11:00 or 11:30 at night, my choice would be to catch up on some of the shows i have missed earlier in the week. my natural inclination would not be -- i would not watch a late-night talkshow anyway just because it's not -- i would watch your show before a late-night comedy show. i can't relax watching those. i'm looking at the themes. that is no fun. the whole thing now, people can watch those shows a la carte. people watch a segment i did or a segment one of the jimmies did, or a segment that colbert -- these things go viral, people see those.

when i see somebody on the street and they say i love that thing you did, they don't say i love that thing you did last night. they love that thing bouncing around online. people don't listen to albums anymore. they used to put "sergeant pepper" -- side one and side two. a lot of thought went into which song goes where, and for years i used to give a lot of thought to when things happen in the show. now it does not seem as relevant when things happen in the show. charlie: are you thinking when you create a show now about that, or are you thinking i've got to find what i know will be sellable clips? conan: that is tricky. i always try to lead with what is funny.

i think this is wood. if not, it is fantastic simulation. charlie: 25 years. conan: beautiful. ikea. i think a lot about what is funny, but would make me laugh what would surprise me. now, i know with the formula is. it is a very simple formula to have things go viral. everybody knows what it is. get a big celebrity and you get them to do some stunt, and it will probably go viral. it is called click bait. if you are just thinking about click bait, you will end up with a show that might have a lot of viral bits but maybe things you don't think comedically are that terrific.

it is all where you want to put your priorities. if you can get both -- i have some remotes that go viral and i am proud of them comedically. they happen to get out of there, and that makes me the happiest. ♪

charlie: you have started doing remotes. most recently you created a love

attention because he went to cuba. why did you do that? conan: when i'm on my own -- just on camera, but when i'm on my own improvising it seems to be something i have a knack for, and it's a different energy. we are always looking for an opportunity, and i've gone to finland -- freshness, just liven it up. when the obama administration announced early in the year they will -- they would try to thaw relations with cuba and work towards lifting the embargo, there was a lot of attention paid to it. our head writer mike sweeney said, we should go to cuba. everyone in the room said, that's fantastic. then he was demoted. i don't know why. then we went to work.

we wanted to do it very quickly. jeff ross immediately got in touch with -- found a producer who did work with european companies in cuba. we met with him. he told us what he thought was possible and how we could try to get in. we wanted to do it without permission, under the radar. charlie: without permission from whom? conan: we did not want to call the state department and say are you ok with this? who knows. they might say no. they probably would be wise to say no. what state department would want me to be the liaison in cuba? charlie: all you are doing was singing and dancing. and eating. conan: and a lot of drinking. i drank heavily. when you hear a comedian wants to go to cuba, there would be any asking for permission -- it's better just to go. we flew in, brought our cameraman with us, we do not

have permission to do anything. we just went and shot. charlie: here is an example of that production. roll tape. ♪

[applause] ♪ conan: did anyone get that down? that's a hit record. charlie: my impression is that is what you love to do, as much as anything. that is what you did when you were off, went on that tour. conan: what i absolutely love is when no one knew back in 1993, when nobody knew who is this guy, conan o'brien, the media was calling anyone in my life they could find.

they called my roommate. we are still close friends. they found my college roommate and said, conan o'brien, who is conan o'brien? how is he going to be different than any other late-night host? eric said something that is very true. he said, conan likes to be funny with people. i read that and i thought, that's kind of perfect. i like to go out into the world, whether with a guest on the show -- i like to do something funny with them. i like to make something funny happened, and i will play any part. if they are low, i will go high. it is a very musical approach to comedy, which is close to music, and whether i'm going to cuba, anywhere i'm going in the world

or any comedy bit i'm doing, i love to find a rhythm with somebody, get something going, and i'm completely liberated. in that moment it is pure joy. charlie: roll two. conan: these are everywhere. this is a cuban payphone. it enables you to make a call and get your hair permed at the same time. [laughter] the only problem is, it will only call that guy. [laughter] i am talking to that guy right now. i was worried my spanish would not be good enough here in cuba, but now i think i will be ok. this is a mercado or market here in cuba. pretty typical. take a look at you do not see this anywhere else.

a whole row of just one product, one brand, that is it. i don't know what this is. sweet wine. it just goes and goes and goes. we cannot film here. >> not without authorization. conan: i don't need to. [speaking spanish] do you have that? here it is. you do have it, ok. charlie: they have some. conan: yeah, that was a fun moment. we blurred his face out because we did not want him to get in trouble. charlie: john oliver was with us on the morning show the other day. he has eight or 10 writers, just one so -- show on sunday night which is all he needs and can handle. do you have any writers?

conan: i think i have 12 or 14. charlie: why do you need so many writers? conan: you never have enough. one writer, a good writer -- a great hitter is a .300 hitter. charlie: 3 out of 10. conan: we need a lot of ideas. a really good usable idea is a hard thing to find. one very bright writer can come up with one once in a while. charlie: a bright writer can come up with one, once in a while. the home run. conan: a great idea. there is some sort of weird equation. if i had 150 writers, i would not be able to generate much more funny stuff. if i had five, he would not be enough. there is something about this number or you get -- you do the

volume we do. we do four hours a week, we do about 190 shows a year. you need a lot of people because someone won't have it. sometimes two or three writers are not firing. the other people pick up the slack. some people are good monologue jokes. some people are better at visual jokes. charlie: how much of it is you? you contribute a joke a night? conan: i edit -- my biggest contribution to the show is a ton of improvising on the show just because there has to be. you have an hour to fill, and we have discrete bits and discrete monologue jokes. a lot of the laughs i get armie -- get

making fun of the jokes in between the jokes. charlie: that's a staple of what you do. which carson did. conan: which carson did really well. the laugh is where you think it's going to be. but i think my biggest contribution is as a host you are the editor in chief. people are bringing you a lot of material and you are saying, i'm not comfortable with this. i love this, but i would love to turn it upside down. charlie: a tv critic said, "late-night television is the most static medium on tv. if you're most interested in tv as an economic horse race, each year we get fresh forensic analysis. someone is always the hot young buck. yet every show looks identical as if the format had made the same face one too many times and got stuck." do you agree with that? conan: which part?

charlie: it all looks the same part. conan: i think there is a reason why a bicycle looks like a bicycle. you can reinvent the bicycle as many times as you want, but when the wright brothers were making them, which they did before the airplane, everybody -- that would be what i liken it to, which is it is a form that works very well, which is you want there to be a structure because then it is what you do with it. i think that certainly if you say it's too many white males, i say absolutely too many white males. that is not just true with american talk shows. ceo's of companies -- that's a problem people talk about in

late-night, and i think too many white males is a problem worldwide. specifically about talk shows, i think it is all what one person does with it. i like to think i've had a very different creative approach to how to do one of these shows. but if you are someone who is casually checking these shows out and you are looking at eight bicycles, they just all look like ok, great. we'll in front, we'll in back drivetrain in the middle and pedals and there is a seat and a bell. charlie: and celebrity guests and others. conan: over time, what i find interesting is because there are so many shows, it is forcing -- i feel the heat all the time. i have been doing this 22 years now, and i have a secure contract and secure job, but i feel the pressure every day

because there are so many people out there. charlie: it is more than just some measurement of how you are doing against other people. it is also you, too. you are your own toughest competitor. conan: yes, i have always been competing with myself. i don't want it just to become a job. i think that would become the greatest crime. there are days when it feels like -- this might be that time for you right now, charlie. charlie: i was going to say to you, what would you do if they took it away from you? and i said, they did. been there, done that. conan: unlike clint eastwood they hang him early in the movie but then he shows up with a scar around his neck and kills everybody. i am writing a commencement speech for this weekend. i went back and looked at some people i respect. i looked at steve jobs.

i looked at the one you had written at harvard, and several of us -- you did one at dartmouth. you had not done one in 11 years or so. you did a lot of things we all do. we talk about the place where we are, we talked a bit about lessons. the lesson you talked about was the lesson you and i had talked about before at a conference in aspen. it is this idea of what you discovered coming out of what

downturn. it turned out to be the biggest upturn of your life. how did that happen? conan: when i was hosting the "tonight" show, i was very much trying to probably please this sort of bold media idea. such a mental, such a heavy mental. at the time it felt that way. this kind of crazy disaster -- it still feels comical and improbable, when the whole thing quickly fell apart, and i found myself without a job and not knowing what i was going to do it's very liberating. it is an amazing feeling. i don't recommend it. there are other ways to get that high. there is lipitor. i found it to be liberating -- first of all, i did not realize how much -- i was not nearly as internet savvy then as i am today, and what happened was a lot of the pro-conan forces rose up on the internet. it was very creative.

charlie: a told you that you had a committed audience, whatever the form was, they were waiting for you. conan: yeah, and they did not care where i was. they just wanted me to keep making things -- charlie: that made them laugh. conan: that led to the tour. the tour was one of the best creative experiences of my life. every night the show would change and i would do music, but i would also do comedy improvisation, but i also did stand up. i think i lost about 20 pounds. every night it was me on stage for two hours plus. when the show was over, i was drenched in sweat. i could not eat enough to keep the weight on. it was a very intense time, but very creative, and that led to this idea that i should just try things, i should try lots of things. don't be afraid to fail. don't be afraid to do a comedy idea that does not work out.

people will forgive that in the short term. in the long-term they will remember what you find it works. i started doing a lot more of that, and i think the last 5, 6 years of my life have been particularly creative. and it all came from an event that on the surface looked like a terrible thing. charlie: [indiscernible] it is like 10 million? conan: i think it's like 12. charlie: how often do you tweet? conan: once a day. maybe twice a day. it is once a day, and it's a joke. i don't tweet about what i'm eating. everyone uses it -- i use it as a joke delivery system. occasionally if there is something in the media and people wanted to comment on that, that can be a good way to do that.

you can send out a tweet. there are some things i still don't feel good about. there is a phenomenon now when someone dies, suddenly other celebrities are sending out tweets. we will miss you, rest in peace. it doesn't feel right to me. that might be a generational thing. charlie: you told "the new york times" at this point in my career it is about trying to deepen the commitment i have with my fans. conan: when i walk down the street, when someone is excited to see me, they are very excited to see me. there's a lot of hugging, which i enjoyed. charlie: if you see conan, hug him. conan: please, ladies, and that guy. [laughter] it is very important to me that

people know i mean it, they know it is real, but i am that person they see on television, and that i really am committed to this and it is not a facade, and there is something behind it. i almost have a religious commitment to that. when i meet people who are interested in my work or appreciate it, i really want them to know that that really is me. charlie: you said to me once -- you said about this show and this table, this is a place where people come to talk. it essence, it was how we define this program. thank you for coming. conan: that is one of my favorite things to do. this and eat cheese alone in the basement. [laughter] charlie: weeknights at 11:00 p.m. eastern standard time. conan: thank you for having me. ♪

charlie: a writer and director, his 1996 novel was turned into a popular movie starring leonardo dicaprio. he also wrote the screenplays for movies such as "28 days later" and "never let me go." he is now making his directorial debut with "ex machina." it follows a young programmer

selected to participate in an experiment involving artificial intelligence. his job is to evaluate the human qualities of a machine named ava. here is the trailer for the film. >> you are dead center of the greatest scientific event in the history of man. >> hello. ♪ >> how do you feel about her? >> she's amazing. >> every cell phone has a microphone, camera, and means to transmit data. i turned on every microphone and camera across the entire planet. i have redirected the data. my competitors thought that search engines were what people were thinking, but it was a map of how people were thinking. do you know they brought you here for me to test you? ♪

>> you shouldn't trust anything he says. >> does ava actually like you or is she pretending to like you? >> self-awareness. manipulation. sexuality. >> are you attracted to me? i have something i want to show you. >> ava, you have to help me. >> what will happen to me if i

failure test? charlie: i'm pleased to have alex garland at this table for the first time. welcome. alex: thank you. charlie: congratulations on all you have done and on this film. tell me your interest, your development of interest in this before it became a film. alex: i'm in my mid-40's. my life has kept pace with the development of home computers. it probably started when i was a kid, 12 years old and getting a sense that this thing in the living room was somehow alive or had qualities it did not have, but you get this funny electric sense from a machine. then when i was older, starting to read about the issues of artificial intelligence and the kind of progress being made, and realizing the way it relates to understanding human consciousness and self-awareness and what our minds are. charlie: a subject of great speculation and obsession and curiosity among neuroscientists.

alex: absolutely, and an area of no certain knowledge. it is an important thing to take on board. charlie: which is probably one of the reasons why they are so curious about it. alex: yeah. the thing we find so valuable in each other is our sentience. what happens if you find or create that sentience in a machine? charlie: let's talk about artificial intelligence and have you define it. the trailer, which you did not make for your film, had a series of quotes i am familiar with. from elon musk, stephen hawking saying this could be the end of humanity, development of artificial intelligence? what is it, and how could it

marked the extinction of the human race? alex: the first thing you have to do is make sure one is not conflating different kinds of a.i. siri is an a.i. siri doesn't know siri is siri. the google cars that park themselves do not know they are cars. charlie: self-awareness is fundamental to consciousness? alex: self-awareness seems to be fundamental to consciousness in the way we know what we are, and animals know what they are. a dog recognizes its reflection in the mirror, clearly has consciousness of some sort. there is no machine that has that. the kind of a.i. that can get talked about is either a self aware machine -- that is then a

machine like us in many respects and there are ethical considerations, but there's also other kinds of a.i. that are super intelligences which may not be super aware, but can be very powerful. i think stephen hawking and elon musk are worried about both kinds. i do think it is reasonable to be concerned. this film draws a connection with oppenheimer and his anxieties about developing nuclear bombs. there is something fascinating and quite important about developing nuclear power, but it also contains a lot of latent danger. you could hardly say that about a.i., strong or otherwise. charlie: what was the driving idea for you? alex: a movie that had an agenda and was proposing questions they may or may not have answers to.

charlie: to pose questions or bring answers? alex: more to pose questions because many of these questions do not have answers. some do propose answers and they are embedded in the film in some kind of way. that was also trying to slightly reframe the way we look at a.i. it seems to me there was an enormous amount of anxiety about artificial intelligence, which is reasonable in many respects. i thought there was something like a bit of paranoia and maybe it was bleeding over from a generalized tech or science anxiety. charlie: reflected by people like elon musk. alex: reflected by everybody. what science and technology does, always has done is it changes. i'm and that makes people fill -- tha tmakes -- that makes people feel

uncomfortable. in the case of a.i., we perceive a.i. as being on a parallel track to us. it seems to be moving quickly. the fact that it is on a parallel track makes us feel rivalrous with it in some respects. if you pull a.i. off to parallel track and bring it on to our track so it is a product of us in the film that is presented as a relationship more like a parent and child, so hence -- creating a new consciousness which is what a parent does. suddenly the sense of the a.i. moving away maybe has changed, it is less alarming because we want our children to have longer lives than us and as good as us, if not better. there's that idea. charlie: tell us what the turing test is. alex: an incredibly intelligent man with a lot of foresight.

he would see the way computers would go and they would be an issue in terms of computers becoming conscious. he proposed a blind test which was really to see -- it sees if a human interacting with a machine that it cannot see can be fooled into believing it is interacting with a human. it sounds like a simple test but it's very difficult to pass. siri is a very advanced artificial intelligence, but no one is fooled into thinking that talking to a human is talking to siri. it's not actually a test for sentience, it is a test to see if you can pass the turing test. but that is very hard, and it would be an incredible intelligent to do it. the film -- it tries to push that one step further. ava, the artificial intelligence presented in the film, would certainly pass a turing test.

this is not to do it as a blind test, but to demonstrate she is a machine and see if the participant in the test still feels there is a consciousness there. charlie: which makes me believe you went to a great deal of effort to create ava. how did you do it? alex: basically what we did was think according to the terms of the test. she very clearly an overly is a machine. the viewer's first impression of her is that she is a machine. then you begin to pull the viewer almost immediately from that. she is covered with a mesh that follows the contours of the skin, the actress that played ava. you see a female torso or a curve of leg or arm.

as soon as a machine is established, you start to get away from it. charlie: who is caleb? alex: the young man who wins the competition to spend a week with the boss of his company. when he arrives to spend a week, he discovers he is there to take part in this post-turing. charlie: this is caleb first meeting with ava. here it is. ♪

>> hello. >> hi. i'm caleb. >> hello, caleb. >> do you have a name? >> yes. ava. >> i am pleased to meet you. >> i am pleased to meet you, too. alex: caleb is the audience of the character and broadly speaking, an audience and caleb should be having roughly the same experience through the film. charlie: you said this is by order of many multiples one of the easiest movies to be involved in.

alex: we had a group of people a collaborative effort where everybody was making the same film, and often i have worked on projects -- films have a lot of people on them. we present them as if they are directors' mediums, but i don't buy into that much. i see it as a collaboration. what happens within the collaboration, what happened is you get different people making different films at the same time. when that happens, it is miserable and tough. it gets political and brutal. this was a friendly straightforward. something to do with it being a small indie movie. there's a lot of camaraderie. we have got to shoot it six weeks, so everybody gets behind -- charlie: did you do the casting? alex: we all discussed it. anything you can ask about this, take it as a given it was a collaboration.

what happens in this film is typically in a film structure you will have a few seven-page scenes, maybe two or three. this has endless heavy dialogue scenes landing one after the other traded puts a massive weight on the actor's shoulders. there is a kind of actor who is primarily a charisma on the screen and they are not necessarily brilliant actors but they have a force. sometimes for many films that is what is required. in a film like this it would be fatal for the movie. what we needed more than anything was three actors. charlie: isaac has some of that, doesn't he? alex: you can be a great actor and have charisma. these guys have the works. charlie: gleason said, the great science fiction movies are human traumas as well.

in my head, they tell you more about people than they do about machines. alex: yeah, sci-fi can do that. i like character driven drama wherever it is, whether it is a thriller or parallax. yes, i agree with that. the main thing about sci-fi is it does not have to be embarrassed about ideas. cinema can be terribly uncomfortable with big ideas and feel awkward about it. it doesn't sit inside an action thriller unless it is making a political point. charlie: it started -- alex: i have no idea. we should not have any success with this film at all. it is a small, difficult movie in many respects as a film to sell. it doesn't have any super famous actors. it doesn't have any car chases.

i have been working film for a long time. maybe it has to do with a.i. charlie: you say it is an uplifting film. alex: broadly speaking, that stems from who the viewer allies themselves with in the film. i am allied to the machine. if you are allied to the young man, you will have a very different take on how the things plays out and what that implies. charlie: you are allied with the machine. alex: yes, i do. charlie: allied means what? alex: ava is a sentient creature. we make all sorts of mistakes about her, which is that she is like us, but i don't think she is like us. she is like herself and that is what i find interesting about ava.

i have to be careful talking about it. if i want the film to exist or fail on its own merits, i can't lift it up or pull it down. it is what it is. charlie: this is clip number three. this is what ava asks caleb what will happen if she fails the test. >> what will happen to me if i fail your test? will it be bad? >> i don't know. >> do you think i might be switched off? >> i don't know the answer to your question. it's not up to me. >> why is it up to anyone? do you have people who test you and might switch you off? >> no. >> then why do i? charlie: what do you want the audience to walk away from the theater with?

alex: it is an ideas movie. what i hoped was it would be a thought-provoking film. despite the fact that it does provoke the kinds of discussions we have had is basically a good thing. i wanted it to be a film with an agenda, but just to allow people or just present them with ideas they might find interesting, they might then talk about between themselves. those are films i like, when other people make them. my golden era of filmmaking is the 1970's. there was a lot of that kind of film around then. you are more likely to find it on american television then you are at the cinema these days. because the rest been such a great -- since the "sopranos,” there has been a renaissance of adult drama on american tv.

charlie: it was recently voted one of the best pieces of the last 20 years. alex: it is one of the best film dramas ever. there's a lot of other really good stuff. as a filmmaker i find it frustrating in some respects because a taxi driver existed in cinemas many decades ago and now taxi drivers in his incarnation is really "breaking bad." i love cinema. the cohen brothers and pt anderson, their great people making films now, but something has changed. charlie: and people are watching them on smartphones. alex: smartphones and tablets, but in the comfort of their own home. when i was a kid, having a tv was like this big. in my house it was black and white. there was this huge contrast going to cinema.

these days people have -- i kind of get it. it makes sense. charlie: it was great to have you. alex: many thanks. charlie: thank you for joining us. see you next time. ♪ .

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