john: i am john heilemann. mark: and i am mark halperin. ♪ mark: we have democrats, but first "the wall street journal." hillary clinton's staff could --

kept tight rein on records, and speaking engagements also withheld, and freedom of information rests continually routed through staff. john, is this story and incremental development or seismic? john: it is either incrementally seismic or seismically incremental. it is important, and it is before -- important because he gets to something we have known for a while. they now tie in someone who is with the clintons in that story. mark: it with a real target on cheryl mills' back and there are people at the state department who were clearly unhappy with how they were treated and cheryl mills and

hillary clinton did a lot of political things in the preservation of things, and this might have been stuck that would have escaped attention, and it will now get attention. john: how they view this story has kind of gone back and forth. this story, not helpful at all. mark: it seems like these sources are not political. john: i will michael jackson's this one and moonwalk into it. who are sidney blumenthal and cheryl mills? you have probably heard their names banded about, and for those youngsters in the audience or do not know their history, let's bring out the review. bring out the dossier and the projector and let's do it right now. first up that is sidney blumenthal, a.k.a. grassi knowles, named that by rahm emanuel for his conspiracy

theories. and let's get the next -- next slide. here is that new york times story that has everyone talking. recent activity for sidney blumenthal. drawing scrutiny to politics and business. this is sidney blumenthal e-mailing with hillary clinton and talking about libya, where he also had business dealings. that is shady, complicated and a little problematic. now, number three. boom. that is bill clinton. you know him. that is sidney blumenthal during the situation with monica lewinsky. working behind the scenes to impugn her reputation and earning him a pretty dark reputation in the process. now, let's get cheryl mills up a clinton advisor, a chief of staff, and clinton's 2008 general counsel, loyal to hillary clinton to a fault.

number two, and here we go, her recent activity. she kept a tight rein on records. and number three. that is a picture of her in the 1990's, cheryl mills, when she was defending no in that impeachment investigation back on capitol hill, earning a reputation with republicans for that. mark, tell me. these are characters both of some controversy, so are they now positive or net negative for her? mark: cheryl mills is a top advisor, and sidney blumenthal also. they have been through controversies and have dealt with the legal aspects of being associated with the clintons and they are now in the crosshairs of the benghazi committee. i think they will both be caught to testify, and it will be interesting to see how they handle it. they are both extraordinarily

smart and extraordinarily combative. john: these are tough people, who fashion themselves as tough people who have been through tough things, but they are both controversial. even people who like the clinton sometimes worry about the influence of both of them, for different reasons. mark: if the story about cheryl mills is right, and if the new york times article is right about sidney blumenthal, and they both seem to be well researched articles look at what they have alleged to have done. a lot of democrats look at this and say, you know what, they should not have done that. john: these are the kinds of things the obama people rightly or wrongly hold themselves as being more real -- morally

superior to, these kinds of people being dragged into the spotlight, to exacerbate some of that sniping going on in the party and it will not be helpful in the party going forward. mark: there are young people familiar with history, and you can get grabbed into something. all right, we will have more on hillary clinton when we look at our i will focus group after the break, but before that break, everyone will be watching david letterman's last show on cbs. john, after letterman leaves who is best positioned to have the best politicians come and sit? john: i think it is stephen colbert. he has interviewed a lot of politicians and has a penchant for irony. mark: i think he is a bit of a wild card, because we do not know how he will host the show.

i think jimmy, and you know which jimmy i mean. i think jimmy fallon has assumed more of the leno role, which is safe, not edgy, so i think he is going to end up getting more folks at rock center that people are going to get there. that is my guess. john: ok, coming up, are very revealing focus group in iowa and what they really think about hillary clinton. we will be right back. ♪

♪ mark: our guests tonight are all democrats, and john and i went to iowa to talk about what hillary clinton calls everyday americans. we did a pair of focus groups along with our partners at purple strategies, and tonight the democratic session. we asked about the controversies . with hillary clinton, what do they think is the one thing that will stop them, and how do they feel about her.

>> i would say she is a very ambitious person, obviously, and she wants to be president. she feels that she is supposed to be president. i think she has felt like that for a long time. obviously, to run for president, you have to be pretty egotistical already. mark: what are your thoughts? >> there are some trust issues but like has been said, she is uniquely qualified to run the country, and i think she will probably do a good job. mark: bill, what is it you like? bill: her experience, being secretary. that is going to be a real key problem in the next four years. mark: what did she accomplish that you consider significant as secretary of state. >> i really cannot think of anything off the top of my head. mark: how about you? >> give me a minute. mark: anything that impresses

you, anything important? >> um -- no. mark: amanda, anything you would point to and say this is a good credential? what do you think of her personally? >> personally, she is a better woman than i am. she survived the monica lewinsky scandal among many other things that they have been through over the years, all of the different things, her e-mails recently even. >> yes her experience. bill clinton had a lot of policies, and they stayed married. they have to have something and, to make it through everything that happened. mark: someone said they did not think hillary clinton would have a scandal because she has been so smart.

some of the things have been caused not by hillary clinton but by bill clinton. bill, your namesake, what about that hurting her chances of winning? l: i do not think that is going to be a big issue. there was a lie he got caught in on the past. mark: do you have a concern that bill clinton can pose a problem for her? i was a watching my favorite show, "scandal," i think they will try to attack them. they will not see hillary and bill. they will see bill clinton. hillary, she is more laid back to herself, and bill is a little more out there, so i think they will try to attack him more to get to her. mark: amanda do you think a bill clinton scandal can be

something for hillary? amanda: all it takes is one miss said thing here or there, a word in the wrong place, and a huge scandal. and it is all blown out of proportion. >> look at the scandal he survived though. to get over cheating on your wife in the oval office his popularity soared after he was impeached. mark: so if i understand him, it is that there is no scandal too big for bill clinton to overcome. >> i actually think bill clinton will support his wife. i do not expect there to be a hillary clinton scandal until the second term, because the second term, it does not matter. come after me, row. -- bro.

>> she is not running against an unbeatable candidate this time. >> it was just a phenomenal campaign he ran. even though she was probably the first woman to stand a chance at getting elected during that -- i mean, it just, you know, his oratorical skills, the way he made people feel charisma, so i think she is a lot less -- she is a lot more comfortable in this campaign. >> the last time she ran, she ran with an air of inevitability and that put off a lot of people. i think she is less abrasive now. >> last and she was running for the nomination. this time, she is running for president. >> i think that is the way to put it. she is not going against anyone right now. she is just being herself and talking about which he intends to do. >> she is getting my support. she has moved on a lot of issues i really care about. i think with timing, we need to

see what her stances are going to be on a few issues, because it is not out there. it has been a while since she has actually voted on a bill but she does have us excited. she has a lot of people my age expired it, -- excited, i know that, and she has done a lot using social media, using different channels to drum up enthusiasm. mark: kendra, what is the single thing you like most about her? >> to put it short, she is a bad mammajamma. she is not afraid to step up. she is not afraid to take advice, and she is not afraid to say, no, i do not want to do it that way. i want to do it this way. mark: either other people who thinks -- think she is tough?

i am using another way other than using her bad mama jama. >> why doesn't she come out and talk more about benghazi? she hid behind it and did not discuss it. i would really like to see the next president be more forthright and actually be more outspoken. we made a mistake. this is where we went wrong, and just completely own it, but we do not have politicians like that anymore. mark: what is the thing that gives you the most pause? >> i guess it would be her honesty. like you are talking about. benghazi, this whole e-mail thing that she supposedly deleted the e-mails. she is a very closed, causative person, and i think that is one of her downsides. >> there are some downsides to her, but i think most of the questions of honesty and stuff

are overblown. a lot of the fact is made that oh, she is so ambitious. well, you know what? if you're going to be a politician if you are going to set yourself up to be elected to any office, you have to be ambitious. you have to have one big ego and if you're going for higher offices, you have to have an absolutely huge ego, and sometimes that rubs people the wrong way. mark: one thing people have expressed is her ties to wall street. are any of you concerned about that? >> no. >> name one candidate who does not have ties to wall street. how can you get anywhere without having some ties to wall street or to the business community? mark: charlie, it was reported the other day, you may have heard, that the clintons, bill and hillary together have made

$30 million in speaking fees, some from overseas interests. does that concern you at all? charlie: no, not at all. of course, he is an ex-president. they make a lot of money. so do the bushes. so do a lot of politicians. would i feel a little bit more comfortable if they had more common person's experience? yes, i would, but is it in the top 30 of issues that i care about? no. it is really not that important to me. >> i mean, it seems pretty silly to me that she was using a gmail account and thought it was acceptable for diplomatic-related stuff, but really, i don't care. i have got e-mails i do not want people reading.

not because there is bad stuff in there, but that is my personal stuff. mark: it's something stops hillary clinton from being president, what will it be? >> probably some scandal that they try to drum up, but i really do not see what else they can do. mark: ok, bill, what could stop them? bill: i do not see what could stop them. they have gone from benghazi to these e-mails, and everything is just washing off. >> she is not perfect, but she is been in the eye for a long time, in the public site, and you're going to have some stuff on her, but she has great policies, and she knows how to get stuff done. mark: all interesting, and tomorrow, our republican focus group, but stick around, our a.m. -- friend mary matlin after the break. ♪

♪

joh joining us now isn: mary matalin -- john: joining us now is mary matalin. there was this long chunk of video about this focus group and i know you heard about that. as a political strategist, as a republican looking at that focus group, what do you take away from it? mary: i think it was interesting. no substance. the only substance raised, the only issues raised were benghazi and e-mail and the issue of trust, so they all love her and think she is great, but compared to what? in the land of the blind, she is the one eyed giant, but compared to what? we're going to have another campaign of personality here, and this is a cycle of --

mark: where issue vulnerable? what issues is she vulnerable on , to try to poach some votes? mary: none of those critical junkies could name one single accomplishment that she has done. why the republican field is so strong this year is because it is running on hollis and philosophy, which has been absent in the last several cycles. we have not run on anything, and i love that she is running left. the democrats have been moving left, and we have been moving left, so now we will have a very stark contrast so where she can lose democrats is as they move left. if you look at support, more

precisely objection to the policies in the obama era, the numbers are against the policies , and the policies are affecting their life. we just have to stay on policies. john: but you have a bunch of democrats, as you just said mary, cannot name any of her compliments at the state department in who think she could be vulnerable to another scandal, but they say i am for her, not because i am for her but because we must stop a republican. what about that? somebody who will stop scott walker, marco rubio, ted cruz. what does a republican have to do to allay those fears? mary: what they have to do is what they failed to do for the last several cycles, which is to avoid that exact strategy. a strategy for victory dedicated on voting against the opponent that is a very weak, specious strategy.

in the case of the government to have records, speak to them. in the walker case. and having a constitutional foundation they have to speak to that. frankly, they have to not answer the kinds of questions that come up in a political arena but say what they have to say, and so far, they have been good. and we have to be who we are, which we have not done, and she will get what she has got and no more. mark: what are the elements of effectively dealing with things with jeb bush? mary: i have to say i am surprised that the dynasty issue is as deep as it is.

i think it has to deal with the frustration of republicans not running as conservatives, not getting a clarion call for markets. the best thing that he can do is to keep being out there. they think they know jeb. the large electorate does not know jeb. jeb is different from george w. george w. is very different from george h. john: there is not a single person who thinks that jeb handled that question well last week. how can it be that it took him that long to come down where he came down? what is the nature of the trouble that he had answering that question? mary: it is curious. you are right.

the party, in general, is in a transition from robust international intervention in perpetuity and what we used to be and i think this goes to the former question, there is too much, too much emotional internalization of the bush question, and there is loyalty in the family and all of the rest of it. john: all right, way too short. mary thank you for coming. when we come back, a rand paul section. ♪

rand paul: this is rand paul, making a patriotish speech. mark: we will hear about hillary

clinton, and this program is on at 5:00, and until tomorrow, sayonara. ♪

alix: we are moments away from the closing bell. this is the bloomberg "market day." i am alix steel. ♪ [bell] alix: you have the dow snapping a four-day winning streak, and the dow and s&p both finishing a negative territory, the s&p falling for a second day, and the s&p did touch a new record high before pulling back. the nasdaq king out a win -- eking out a wi