mark: "with all due respect" to herman cain, this time it's 10-10-10-10-10. on the show tonight george is the one and is rand paul getting zeroed out? but first, 10, as in 10. five white house prospects are tied at the top each with 10%. they are -- not surprisingly maybe -- jeb bush, ben carson,

mike huckabee, marco rubio and scott walker. do any members of this fab five have the potential to break out of this top 10? al: i'm tinted to say marco rubio, but six months ago, i said he was dead. this is the most wide-open unpredictable race we have ever seen. tread very lightly on any predictions. a mistake, and intervening event will all determine who might break out, and it may take a while. mark: we all had the same reaction to this poll. there's a geewhiz quality to a five-way tie for first, but it's not just a tie, but the front runners are at 10, a level of support which is pretty low. one bad day could put one guy down to five, and a good day

could put them in the lead. al: yeah, it could, and this is not the kind of poll that discourages george pataki or anyone else from getting in this race. they all barely break double figures. you not going to say you do not want to get in this race because you're not going to win. if you start it one, you only have to get 10 more. mark: most of the candidates are spending the bulk of their time with paid media, and i don't know that paid media will do much. this is a race that will not have a front runner until after iowa at the earliest. al: i totally agree. debates may start to shape it a bit, may knock a few people out a few people up, but it's going to be iowa and new hampshire. mark: george a tacky -- george pataki not discourage from getting it, even though he's only registering at 1 percent

basically no respondents supporting him, but he did announce his candidacy today. he's in the race for real after flirting with running in the past. here's how governor pataki framed his running this morning, emphasizing his time as governor of new york. what pataki: after 12 years of my conservative policies, we replaced dependency with opportunity, a welfare check with a paycheck. it is to preserve and protect that freedom that this morning, i announced i am a candidate for the republican nomination for president of the united states. [applause] mark: pretty fired up, george pataki. he is obviously at best a long shot for the nomination, but can his candidacy influence the outcome of the race? al: it could, but the way to do it is to run as a generator -- genuine moderate.

but it does not appear that george pataki is going to do that. most new yorkers cannot even remember the guy between the two cuomos. jeb bush got higher marks as governor, rick perry longer, scott walker is more current. i don't see where george pataki fits in. mark: i agree that he's not emphasizing the one thing that would make him different by any means. i do think he could impact the race in three ways. one, he's a smart guy. if he cannot find his way to the literal debate, he could do some damage to other republicans. two, he will focus on new hampshire. only chris christie has got a centric a path. the last thing is this message, which we will listen to later -- smaller government. lots of other people are running on it, but he's running on it with an anti-washington sensibility that i think will help at least as the argument along. al: i want to cover the george

pataki/bobby jindal debate, the battle of the 1% or's --one percenters. mark: you not only have to grow your support, but you have to pass over 16 other guys and one gal in order to get to the top. it is daunting. he needs a lot more luck than one or two people dropping out. in this crowded republican field, everyone is looking for a way to set themselves out from the rest. rand paul is doing that by turning the nsa into public enemy number one. now all this week fellow republicans are looking for their own look at me chances and they've done that by turning against him. chris christie and bobby jindal have been ultra-aggressive criticizing his comments on isis that he made on morning joe. moments ago on fox news, scott walker joined in, taking issue with what paul said about isis.

scott walker: i just think he's wrong about that. unfortunately. i respect senator paul on a lot of issues. i think there's a lot of good things about him but i think he's just wrong on this one, and it's one of those things where republican or democrat, if someone is saying something wrong, i will not criticize them personally, but i think there's a tendency for certain candidates to go after people on a personality basis. i think we should talk about the fact, and the fact are clear. mark: for people like chris christie or bobby jindal criticizing paul is part of what is called in political circles looking for a moment of strength. pretty much the same thing happened in the last sheet of republican nomination battles, if you don't remember. this is how republicans running for president then sought their own moments of strength, by slamming not rand paul, but his father ron paul. >> congressman paul is irresponsible. >> nothing could be more dangerous than the comments we just heard. >> someone running for the president of the united states

in the republican party should not be parroting what osama bin laden head on 9/11. >> i want to tell you that that kind of isolation is what caused world war ii -- that kind of isolationism is what caused world war ii. mark: based on what happened in debates for an eight years ago today and based on the fact that chris christie today took another shot at rand paul there's more of this to come for sure. who will win this fight over national security with rand paul on one side and everyone else pretty much on the other side? al: i think rand paul, actually at least in the short run. the country is more hawkish than win his daddy ran, but he is a tougher and more combative candidate than ron paul. he is going to give that, too, and on some of these issues particularly like the nsa and eavesdropping, it plays to his libertarian base, and if it's

seven guys against one, all he has to do is get 15%, and he is ahead of them. mark: i totally agree. the other issue is expanding the party. all these other candidates are fishing in the pond where public and voters have always lived. rand paul's chances depend on doing what barack obama did, bringing new voters and, at a lot of new voters find his positions appealing, certainly on the nsa, and maybe even based on what he's -- he said on "morning joe." al: particularly younger voters. i think they will be with him on both those issues. mark: we have not heard from rubio and bush. i think in the debates, they will be tented to go after him too, because national security as the top issue for republican voters. going back to the poll we talked about earlier, we want to go to a question about hillary clinton that was asked -- is she trustworthy? general election voters said it did 3%, no, 39%, yes, but

hillary clinton remains in that poll rock up -- rock solid support -- general election voters said 53% no, 39% yes, but hillary clinton remains in that poll rock solid support. should brooklyn be worried about that: the numbers? al: i don't think they should be worried about those numbers. if trustworthyiness bernanke nixon never would have won, and bill clinton never would have one. -- if trustworthiness work the key -- if trustworthiness were the key. the second thing that worries them -- don't laugh at me -- bernie sanders. he more and more looks like the perfect protest candidate, authentic to the core. mark: the trip continues, but it

is a clinton family tradition. deal with schedule and controversy, have people who may be think you do not always tell the truth, but still be seen as a strong leader. the clinton camp is keeping their head down. we've been asking for days about the revelations about bill clinton's llc. their strategy is head down, talk about the issue, and hope for the best. they are doing all right on that score. more about hillary clinton coming up after the break. specifically, what did george pataki say about her today? we'll be right back. ♪

mark: on this george pataki announcement day, we thought we'd go with that old "with all due respect" standby move. we start with governor pataki and what he said about the woman he'd like to run against for the big job -- hillary rodham

clinton. george pataki: we are the party of the middle class, unless by "middle-class" they mean someone who left the white house dead broke and 10 years later had $100 million. [applause] unless by "middle-class" they mean someone who charges a poor country $500,000 for a half-hour speech. that's their party's candidate. [applause] she speaks for the middle class? mark: every republican who runs is going to take their best shot at hillary clinton. how would you rate how george pataki talked about her in terms of the issues he chose, the tone, and the delivery? al: i thought the delivery was good. they were good shots. he's not going to be the

anti-hillary candidate, though. he spent six years as governor working with her when she was senator, but that rather ill-positions him for that role. carly fiorina has even better soundbites. that's not going to be his road to victory. mark: he is a pretty rich guy himself, probably not as rich as the clintons, but it will be interesting to see what the clinton opposition research team does, the people who come after her for being out of touch, for being so wealthy. they have already started going back on jeb bush but i will be interested to see if they do any damage. fiorina is quite rich, not seeing any allies going after her, but i expect that is coming. al: if they hit 4% or 5% in the polls, it will come. mark: another thing he talked about was 9/11.

he was governor when that tragedy occurred. he talked about half -- about how that experience shaped his views on foreign policy. george pataki: i saw up close the results of too many believing that radical islam was far away that we were safe in america. i will never forget the lesson of september 11. we will destroy radical islam possibility to attack us over there before they have the chance to attack us here -- we will destroy radical islam's ability to attack us over there before they have the chance to attack us here. mark: obviously 9/11 is still a bidding -- pretty big touchstone. al: i want to say something nice about george pataki. he's a good guy, but this one does not cut, either. rudy giuliani was the one most identified with 9/11, and if it did not cut for him -- and it did not, at all -- why is it going to cut for george pataki? mark: it is certainly a big part

of his pitch, but as you suggested, he is not nationally associated with that. it will be hard for people to associate him with it. it's almost always in contrast to how rudy giuliani was perceived in those days. al: i do think, as i mentioned earlier when we talked about rand paul, i think with isis and other things, the country is a little bit more hawkish than it was when rudy ran but i don't think george pataki is going to say he's the man with a bullhorn who stood up against that terrible threat back on that awful day. i don't think his record is bad on that, but i just don't think it's the sort of thing that will rally people around him. mark: overall, based on watching his performance today, he is getting better, getting more experienced as a presidential

candidate just in terms of delivery. i still believe he will have new venture not to himself, but he will spend a lot of time there. he is going to have the ability to talk to an audience that will listen to him, even if it does not move his poll numbers very much. al: don't underestimate -- you are going to laugh at me again -- lindsey of their. lindsey graham is the one person who may be a real hawk which may appeal to certain voters there. mark: one more sound but we want to play, which is governor pataki's core message. george pataki: government has grown too big. they told me that when i ran for governor of new york. they said i could not win. too many people were dependent on governor. the aircraft and powerful interests were too strong. the people could not regain their confidence in new york's future. in a sense, they were right. they could not do it, but i knew i could, and we did. [applause] mark: again as you suggested,

other governors in this race have cut spending but i do think he has this issue. al: he is sincere on this. there is no pro-regulation core of the party base, so it is an issue that will resonate with voters, and i think he hit it pretty well today. mark: his problem is if he starts to get traction on this issue, people will scrutinize his record in new york. he did have a democratic legislature to deal with and did not control in as much as he would have liked, but he will have to deal with the record of new york's and ring the time he was in office -- with the record of what new york spent during the time he was in office. al: that may make it hard for him to break out. mark: he is one of the people vying to get into the debates with this standard of only of

the top 10 getting into at least the first couple of debates. if he finds his way -- unlikely at this point, but if he finds his way in, he will be a formidable debater, more than people think. before his announcement today in new venture, he released a video online. really well produced. there was, however, one thing we found a little strange -- images of curtains fluttering, the silhouette. it seemed like george pataki was pitching himself as much as a fragrance salesman. you can see our take on that important question right now right now on bloomberg.com. coming up, you ever been inside a media scrum? no? buckle up. we take you deep inside the scrum zone after this. ♪

mark: we talk a lot here about

how the media interacts with presidential prospects most commonly in what is called the media scrum. it has always been a big part of political events, but now they are even crazier because anyone can bring a camera, and they do. we wanted to have some fun with all this, so we and our colleagues to the recent south carolina freedom summit to break down the science of the scrum take out their own cameras and microphones, and bring all of you into the scrum zone. >> this is the south carolina freedom summit, and you are in the scrum zone. ♪ >> am going to try to get as close as i can and get my microphone as close as i can to what he says. i'm a listener more than a talker. i usually don't ask that many questions. >> let's how close david can get to governor scott walker.

he can't outside the stage right exit before the scrum gets out of control -- he camped outside the stage right of it. looks like he's just introduce himself. good strategy, playing the long game. that will pay off later. watch how david slows walker down to maximize his time. that's a strategy we've seen with veteran scrummers, all the greats. >> it was crowded, as you might expect. he's considered one of the top candidates. the core is a lot bigger because everyone has cameras these days. >> good thing david got in early. moments later, the size of walker's scrum exploded. this is multilayered. it's going to take a real athlete to work in. >> i tried to join and ask some questions. >> i want to ask about immigration. he did not mention it in his speech. it's a real big issue. >> we will see what happens.

i'm just going to try to be aggressive. >> looks like he's trapped outside in the crust. tough to break in and get close to walker. even david jackson is on the outer layer area >> here he goes. that is good maneuvering. scrum goes the dynamite. it's looking to be a very physical day in south carolina. sahil proves he's got what it takes. scott walker commended the largest scrum, followed mostly by marco rubio and ted cruz. we look at the three smallest -- john bolton, bobby jindal and george pataki. it's almost too awkward to watch. we caught up with governor pataki afterward to get his reaction. george pataki: it's been a long conference. a lot of speakers. i'm used to it. >> you see a lot of guys here get huge followings.

nothing for you. how do you feel? george pataki: it's what i expect. you start at the bottom, work your way up, and ultimately, you win. >> the media had a lot of questions for marco rubio, earning him the second-largest scrum of the day. >> my strategies to elbow past people and help i can get in front of him. >> looks like we got a rare double scrum marco rubio over here and donald trump over there. what do you do in this situation? >> with all due respect to mr. trump, i'm more interested at this point in mr. rubio. >> rubio is on the move, and she is stuck in the crust. suddenly the scrum loosens up. watch sabrina's stellar hustle. sadly, to no avail. no one here got anything out of rubio. actually, griffin, role that tape that. you didn't see these two, staking out the rubio scrum from the very beginning. what is your goal yet the

what do you want out of this? how much time do you think he will get? >> 30 seconds maybe. >> looks like it's going to happen now because he's done. watch this -- rubio is in a hurry to exit, but listen to their tenacity. whoa, right there. take that home, frame it. that's going to be a beautiful souvenir. >> i could tell and his eyes, he really wanted to. >> those two identical young voters prove you do not even did press couldn't to get the most access to the candidates. we can all learn from that kind of persistence. >> we nailed it. we nailed it. mark: matt and griffin, stay safe out there in the very dangerous scrum zone. breaking news about a former speaker of the house who has been indicted right after this. ♪

mark: latebreaking indictment

news on the wire, this time not about fifa. the justice department has charged dennis has to with a couple of things being moved around, almost $1 million to avoid being noticed by the banks. thanks so much for watching. see you tomorrow. sayonara. ♪

scarlett: -- alix: we are moments away from the closing bell. i'm alex deal -- alix steel. you are now looking at stocks finishing lower but not that bad. we definitely came back -- at one point, the dow falling by 96 points. that was the session low. now you are seeing the dow off by about 35 points.