mark: i am mark halperin. campbell: slow and steady wins the race. mark: iowans gun their motorcycles, secaucus gets souped-up. first, hillary's rivals go all turbo. she called out republican gubernatorial types and their states on voting rights. today, a handful of gubernatorial types returned to the volley. >> secretary clinton doesn't know the first thing about

voting rights in new jersey or the other states. my sense is that she just wants an opportunity to commit greater acts of voter fraud around the country. >> she just went into my home state and dissed every person who supports having an identification to get on and playing or vote. >> we have 28 days in new york they have one day. why are you suing me? take care of business at home before you run around the country using these kind of demagogue statements that we don't want people to vote. mark: he was referring to a lawsuit brought by hillary clinton's lawyers against voting laws that exist in ohio and wisconsin. speaking of wisconsin, scott walker's team said that her extreme views are "far outside of the mainstream." these push backs, very aggressive. how effective will they be for these republicans?

carroll: i think casick's is very effective. in the speech yesterday, she called for 20 voting days. so, they are suing in a place where they have a policy more expansive than what she is calling for in her own speeches. whoever wrote her speech, there was a typo or they did not do their homework and they made a mistake because it makes no sense. mark: they are calling for equal voting rights in the battleground states but not here in new york which historically has had horrible voter laws, ballot access, and everything else. on that point, they are in good footing. democrats love this issue. republicans get all fired up about this issue. for these republicans, they are seeing going after an issue that base republicans care about.

carroll: it is tricky for republicans. she has to get african-americans, minorities energized. at the same time, republicans, even though they can push back hard, they have to be careful and walk a very fine line here and not make this a general election issue. mark: it ruins their brand. carroll: on your marks, get set, go. yes, go. the weird piece about senator rubio and his wife racking up 17, count them, 17 citations on the road like speeding and running red lights. what is the significance of the story? mark: people will go after rubio hard. there are some people that support jeb bush who think that rubio is the man to beat. the media is going after him interest groups are going after him. it has been revealed that a

liberal research group pulled the same records. the other thing, it shows that they don't think that misses rubio is off-limits. they went just as hard after her as they did her husband. campbell: it is not parking tickets. this is being responsible. this is speeding, reckless driving, running red lights. it is the guy who is advertising, hey, don't pay your parking tickets, call me. it kind of underscores when you're hearing some republicans say about him that there is an immaturity, if this is all that the other side has on him, then it is probably not going to do real damage. if this is the tip of the iceberg what you will see being leaked out. with no pun intended, put on your seatbelt. they are in for a rough ride. mark: everyone in politics had the incentive to take down jeb bush.

that has turned to marco rubio. whereas, there's plenty still to come. rubio is now the one in the barrel and there is no stuff in the pipeline. his campaign did not respond they let the lawyer to do it. he will have to answer stuff like this and they cannot just hope it goes away. the higher he rises, the more accountable he will be. campbell: republicans are trying to reconcile the rubio of their fantasies with the rubio in reality. they dream of the rubio who is incredibly talented communicator, with a great story, they want to see him on the debate stage. in reality, he has shown a weak constitution on immigration, on syria, where he was afraid to get aligned with president obama. they are hoping that over the

course of the campaign there emerges a stronger tougher rubio than they are feeling right now. mark: we asked rubio folks for a comment, they did not get back to us. these are reckless driving. the fact is, there is at least three republican campaigns right now, they very much want to take marco rubio down. they are doing a lot of research to do just that. joni ernst is hosting a pig roast and motorcycle ride. is the first time she is holding this event and it is getting a lot of attention. on the menu besides the peak ig, seven presidential hopefuls. ernst has dubbed this event, roast and ride. of the folks that are out there, who has the most on the line? carroll: i think it is rubio. this recent poll shows among caucus-goers that he is everyone

's second-best choice. the campaign is bolstered by those numbers. he hasn't spent as most time there as the other people. he hasn't had a dazzling moment. this could potentially be a moment for him. this event seems tailor-made for walker. he actually rides a harley. mark: they are giving eight minute talks. for voters looking for the young new thing, the rubio-walker side-by-side will be a big deal. the other person who has a lot on the line is carly. she is getting great buzz but if you look at our poll, she is not budging. you would think all of this buzz would lead to higher polls, she hasn't gotten any. time is running out for her. she needs to move. carroll: attention, bipartisan unity announcement.

democrats and republicans and i owa, next year's caucus results will be reported and tabulated into a central " mobile enabled cloud-based platform." that promises accurate and secure reporting. the mobile apps use windows. why are they teaming up? mark: the caucuses are in a bit of danger. the dirty secret is that this was done in terms of tabulation and the vote count being phoned in in a completely informal and haphazard way. last cycle when romney and santorum tied, that was exposed. the parties are smart, to make this more like an election and less like a bunch of neighbors sitting around chatting. you can take modern microsoft technology and add it to the neighbor to neighbor thing.

in the past, they have gotten off really easy. they are not identical for both sides but what was the same was a cavalier casual attitude, no rigor about elections. the way they were running was ridiculous. i'm glad that both parties have advised their team. carroll: given how close it was between santorum and romney and given the number of candidates you could literally have razor thin margins. mark: you say there are five tickets out of iowa and a big field, the difference is a huge deal because just a few votes could matter. no one involved in the party and caususes over the past 25 years. no one would deny the vote count and the tabulation was

extraordinarily loosey-goosey. iowa is first. some worry that they will be downgraded. they don't want that. carroll: because of those that come in fourth or fifth, it matters in a way that it hasn't in the past. mark: we will never know. lost to history. caitlin jenner, mike huckabee, and bob costa. brace yourself for the culture wars after this. ♪

mark: our guest tonight, bob costa joins us about a story he wrote in the paper and on the web with bill rutger, his talented colleague about a topic we have been talking about, the culture wars. we talked about the reverberations of the story.

you talk about the republican conflict over the jenner story. what is the tension and how roiling is it? bob: going to them for comment almost all of them started in e-mail saying, off the record. no one is really weighing in even the activist, they want the conservative and republicans candidates to say something. carroll: why not? they cannot dodge this forever. and everyone you talk to, who has come the closest to figuring out how to thread this needle? bob: the problem for these candidates is they all acknowledge privately and sometimes publicly that they don't want to fight the culture

war. they know that the republican base is almost a sleeping bear that they don't want to wake up if they go too far to the center on the social issue. they are boxed in with something like caitlin jenner pops up. mark: maybe it sounds cynical but it is idealistic. often, they are accused of pushing an issue because the base wants it. do any of the people that want to be the republican nominee, do you think any of them are actually offended by caitlin jenner? bob: no. mike huckabee makes jokes about it, they don't go over well, and and you have rick santorum, he is inelegant and how he has handled it. they are not angry. they are not against caitlin jenner. when you listen to the radio talkshow, there is a lot of anger. they don't know how to reflect that base frustration. carroll: we are looking at voting rights, we were talking

about earlier, which is certainly a way for her to energize her base. a great wedge issue for her as she tries to figure out what will get people most excited. do you see her jumping on this? bob: huge, they already are. when i e-mailed dan pfeiffer, he called me right back. democrats are happy to talk about caitlin jenner. this has become a litmus test for young voters. republican voters don't want to engage what they say is a new litmus test. this would enable the democrats to make this argument that they are the party of the future. mark: this thing explodes this week, transgender politics have not been a big part of our debate. all of a sudden, it is front and center. unlike in the wars over same-sex marriage, this thing is -- democrats love it. not that long ago, they would have been terrified of this. the twist as i understand it

kendall jenner says she is a republican. bob: caitlyn jenner. kendall jenner is one of the daughters. mark: are they worried that they are going to get caitlyn jenner's endorsement? bob: ben carson was asked about this on the campaign trail. he did not seem to know who they were. they don't want to talk about it at all. mark: in the end, is this thing stay hot in this context the presidential cycle and in talk radio or does it end asthe weekend comes? bob: this is not ending. you have all of the right in the republicans, they are on edge about the supreme court decision on same sex marriage and they thought with the religious liberty battle in indiana, arkansas, elsewhere, that the fight that this summer was musty

going to be legal. now, they see caitlin jenner as a cultural touchdown. they don't understand how to move forward strategically when something becomes cultural rather than a legislative or legal battle. carroll: some of them were hoping, the supreme court could put this to rest, and they wouldn't have to talk about it anymore. this sort of opens it up in a way they can escape. bob: caitlyn jenner is not the first. if transgender issues are the central topics in the scene, there'll be more the end more that and full. this puts republicans in a position their silence eventually will not be enough. mark: of the republicans running, which two or three are the most comfortable in public talking about these issues of sexual identity? bob: the most comfortable is jeb bush.

he talks about compassion for people. he has an empathy that comes through that seems very modern that seems like someone who has been in political winter, has seen them evolve. rand paul is pretty good as well. he remains a little uncomfortable. mark: i think you are right about bush. that is why i continue to believe that smart democrats see him as formidable in a general election. if you can't discuss this in a comfortable way, your chances of winning go way down. bob: mike murphy says we have to run a general election campaign. mark: we appreciate you coming in. when we come back, which campaign logo is the absolute worst? we have the answer for you after this.

campbell: one thing every single presidential campaign has in common is they all have logos. you probably don't know what most of them are. allie printed them out, she took them to a guy who is a logo honcho to get the definitive ruling on which are good and which are terrible. allie: i wanted to find out what separates the good campaign logos from the bad. he is a partner and designer at chermayaff and -- you've probably seen some of their designs. in general, what makes an

effective logo? >> it is to help people remained emeber you. a good effective logo would be appropriate. simple and memorable. allie: let's talk about ted cruz. >> there is a clear nod to tradition. the strengths, far right and religious conservatives. but, there's something awkward about the cropping of that star, a kind of crippled star. it is bad. what we look for is the magical moment where the image and the type are merged beautifully. because of italics, they were able to create negative space

between the a and the and. the idea of liberty which is very much his hallmark is appropriately. all around, pretty good concept and execution. allie: marco rubio. >> going all lowercase is pretty smart. he is saying i am the leader of tomorrow. very appropriate. however, the shape of the united states, it is a vast country. they shrunk it to the size of a dot on the eye. when the logo is reduced, it is just too small. even on a business card, you can imagine how tiny that will be. he is one of the candidate that has a pretty good chance but it will not because of the logo. allie: we are talking about this use of blue and gold. >> i'm almost speechless on this one. i don't know where to start.

first of all, to pick the a of america instead of the c of carson or something about his name. what they did to this letter is criminal. from a language standpoint. it doesn't make any sense. is it carson for america, it is very hard to talk about this. it is the worst one. what i see here is a different reactionary logo to the obama campaign. we are leaving hope behind and going to higher ground. can you go the distance with something that is just a reaction to someone else's legacy? to keep this thing going would be a mistake. here, we have a very thin face. it is a modern face.

there is a lighter touch which may be trying to play on something more feminine. she has a very forceful persona. maybe -- unfortunately, when you look at how they tried to extract the kind of visual shorthand, they extract the a. it is more of a slab. a little bolder, a little simpler. the combined tradition and modernity. allie: the fact that it is his first name. >> in this case, may be trendy. this explains why it is bernie and not sanders. it is not intimidating. allie: what are your thoughts about it? >> it is very bold. the arrow saying, moving

forward. we have seen arrows, even for fedex. the other thing about this is strategically, it is not her name. in 2007, she had a big hillary. now, just the age. more of a symbol for the movement and not to focus on her personality or name. campbell: i feel sorry for ben carson. we will be right back. ♪

mark: a great big weekend coming up. joni ernst, the tony's. what are you most excited about? campbell: my kid's game. mark: rick santorum, bernie sanders's advisor, and more.

we are on at 5 p.m. eastern and at 8 p.m. eastern. until next week, we say, sayonara.

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