john: i'm john heilemann. mark: i'm mark halperin, and with all due respect to the newest mcdonald's employee robert gibbs, have it your way. on our dvr tonight, csi-chicago and from germany with love, but first miami vice. marco rubio -- the $80,000 boat paid for with the republican party account and of course the traffic violations reported

by the times a few days ago. so the times is on it. is this legit and is it politically dangerous? john: yes and yes, mark, would be my answer. it is legitimate that you have a republican who like many republicans, has campaigned against profligacy and the way that the government wastes money. you have to look at his finances looking at how he has misspent his money, managed his money. totally legitimate. and there are so many lines in that paragraph that are open to additional reporting, additional digging. there's a lot of danger here, i think, for marco rubio. john: -- mark: people should not treat this like an indictment. it's totally legitimate to look at a candidate's finances,

particularly someone like marco rubio who has lived an unorthodox life. but they had new details and there are more to come and more requests for public documents and some things that are not adding up our being looked at more. i think people on rubio's side turn to say this is an illegitimate story or does not matter to be president -- first ball, the reality is it's going to be looked at. second, these are perfectly legitimate questions. john: we will talk about the defense rubio's campaign is putting forward any moment. but i've got to say you think about the things that a lot of voters will wonder about -- there are a couple of instances in this story. these come up again. i think voters will wonder about them. the houses he bought with no money down. how he got those mortgages. there are questions. [bell rings] mark: it answers one question.

a guy who talks about paying back student loans bought a really expensive boat. john: no question. retaliating against the times but public and party tactics -- republican party tactics 101. the communications director said first the new york times attacks marco over traffic tickets and now they think he does not have enough money. mark, here is my question. how effective is this traditional republican in this case marco rubio-centric tactics of attacking the new york times? mark: marco rubio, it has often been said, has lived a lucky life. he was extraordinarily lucky with the traffic violations over the weekend, where it creates an environment where people who want to rally for marco rubio can do that on social media.

if this story about his personal finances that come out without the antecedent of the traffic story, i think some republicans would have looked at the times report and said, whoa, this guy has questions about him. do we want to make him the nominee? instead it is just piling. mark: -- john: i recall 2008, a campaign we are both pretty familiar with. the times misplayed its hands on two stories, one regarding the clintons' personal lives and their marriage and john mccain from personal life. and they allowed those campaigns to rally their supporters against the new york times and effectively nullify and the silence the times. this is the first time they are using this with tactics, the times has done itself a world of damage. this should have been the first shot fired, not the previous story, which seems trivial.

mark: the times has a huge place . they did good work on this story. but for republicans and on the democratic side for the clintons, they are a publication that can be beat up. it will be interesting to see if they back off rubio or tv investigation going. i suspect it will be the latter. holy schnitzel, batman. jeb bush was trying to look like president bush, but not that president bush. here is what jeb said in berlin about peaceful resolutions and democracy. jeb bush: it will take a serious and united effort of the nations in our alliance. if events can be turned in the direction of peace, ladies and gentlemen, then who else but us, the great democracies all the west, will do the turning? mark: john, we will look more atjeb's speech -- at jeb's

speech later, but did he make a convincing case he can perform on the world stage? john: there is a difference between style and substance. these each was not well delivered. he was not that good. he was not that good today. in terms of substance he came of relatively moderate. he did not somewhat a neocon. he did not sound like a wild interventionist. on style, he left a lot to be desired. mark: he is a guy that can go in and give a substantive speech. the performance level is not way should be. the bigger speech is monday when he announces. but as we talked about earlier on the show, he is not trying to score points so much as punch the ticket and say i've done this speech, i'm a serious person leading up to his announcement. john: right, there's literally

nothing in that speech anyone was looking for a way to bash them for being too much like his brother. he is tough, he's muscular, he republican, for sure. but at the same time, that was a very mainstream republican speech, much more in the vein of his father's foreign policy than his brother's foreign policy. caution works to his advantage if he is looking to avoid trouble on this trip. mark: it's funny, for bush's expiration, you have the worst week he had, over foreign policy the iraqi war. the best card has been he looks more like a president, acts more like a president than anyone else in the field and in the end that will be laid to his advantage if he does win the nomination. john: now it's time for what gilligan's island used to refer to as "the rest."

chris christie and rick perry. both have been spending a conduct times to ring. governor stilley -- governor christie almost exclusively in the granite state. he says he has the blessing of his family if he wants to run. is either chris christie or rick perry showing signs of life? mark: there's no doubt if you ask if they could be a nominee, they will laugh and shake their head. both guys are working superhard. they both have something to prove. and rick perry's case, if certainly the last time he can run. if none of the top candidates becomes a from edible front runner, those two guys, what -- becomes a formidable front runner, those two guys, what they have in common, they are incredible politicians. john: it's a little unfair that that is true they found the

pulling me know about. there is no sign that either one has gotten hot with voters. but they both suffer from the same problem. rick perry became a punchline in 2012. chris christie became a punchline over bridge gate. amazingly, i think perry is more probable at least in the sense that he is good with the republican base. christie has to fight the headmans of thing a punchline, about economy in new jersey, and he is out of line with republicans in those early states. mark: the one thing i see these guys do in great amounts is organize. it will be interesting to see if either gets in there and organizes. where was rick santorum in the pulling this time for years ago? both of these guys are laying the groundwork. i think they are both the kind of guys that can get hot at the end of the factor in this race. john: this is a much tougher field than 2012. a much tougher field. mark: up next, we take you

inside the chicago courtroom where dennis after was arraigned -- dennis hastert was arraigned with dita people. one of them being me. ♪

mark: the big political news here in chicago today was the arraignment of former house speaker dennis hastert on two felony counts of cash with brawls and lying to federal investigators. this was the scene there today. in many ways, a typical court appearance. cameras swarming around. a pretty short proceeding, a not guilty plea from the defendant. there was a lot of human drama inside the courtroom because of the identity around the defendant and the allegations around the charges. our guest today rights for the chicago sun-times. she and i both were in the courtroom when hastert was arraigned.

things are coming in to talk about this. first of all, described the scene outside the courtroom compared to when latoya bridge was on trial -- blagovich was on trial. guest: very similar. in some ways more intense because of who danny hastert is. it was more of a circus today. he was trying to get out of his car. the lawyers kept saying, oh, my god, oh, my god. mark: there was a lot of tension, i felt, but also solid because of the nature of the allegations and the charges. in the courtroom, hastert came in and sat there for an hour or more for the preceding started. talk about how he looked. guest: he looked pretty and comfortable. he looked like he could not wait to get out of there.

some people were saying he looked fidgety. we thought that he just looked -- at one point, i think he had his hands and he was looking down, kind of like a stoned man. why am i here, how can i get out of here? mark: a very solemn look on his face. he mostly stared straight ahead. at one point one of his lawyers said something and the two of them smiled and laughed and hastert did not break that very stern look on his face. he did not speak. his lawyer did. talk about the proceedings and what struck you as for a what -- as far as what went on with the not guilty plea? guest: it was predictable, pretty typical at this stage of the case. probably what was most striking was the judge, his family won't own here in chicago. his brother is the head of the republicans in the illinois

house. they are well-known politically. mark: the judge for a long time explained his connections to the hastert family. hastert's son worked at his law firm. the judge himself a given political donations to hastert. he said basically i am going to recuse myself unless both sides say i shouldn't. why would he not just recuse himself? for a normal person, a judge should not be someone giving donations to the defendant? guest: that was when he was a private citizen. one thing that was really compelling was the judge said, i did contact your staff when you're a congressman and asked to be a judge and did not hear anything back -- mark: even then the guy wanted to be a federal judge badly. even now if use of federal judge -- which is kind of funny. he stood ramrod straight, and

hands clasped in front of them, listening to the judge following the proceedings. i was struck by the fact that this was a guy who was speaker of the house, in an international figure. i was struck by how timid he seemed. his shuffle. he held himself similarly as speaker, but a timid guy in the proceedings. guest: you could barely hear him. all he said was yes, sir yes, sir. i agree, that was very striking. but again these allegations are incredible and they are he spent an incredible amount of money trying to hide the secret. so, you can imagine all eyes are on him. mark: in the legal proceedings they talked about the one thing -- he is free on bond. his sons got the guns in the house off the property.

otherwise, what do we know about the next discovery or possible plea deal or anything like that? guest: on the plea deal they did not mention that today. that was my the things i was looking for. when these discussions are farther along, they might make reference to it in court -- mark: do you think that the prosecutor is reluctant? it seems like an obvious case for a plea deal? guest: it does. usually if they can avoid trial they will. it's a sure thing. the next thing, is the deadline the judge said -- the judge is seen as a friendly attorney in general to defendants. it will be an interesting thing to say here, because hastert might not want to roll the dice. mark: and the judge said, either side can basically say we want

you off the case and he will be off the case. there's going to be more questions to, about how hastert lived his life. guest: certainly. and there have been reports of two different individuals who are alleging they are the him's off -- the victims of hastert. whether there is more, we will have to wait and see. mark: thank you for coming in. we appreciate it. we'll be right back. ♪

mark: -- john: jeb bush is days away from announcing his run for president. his preamble is looking like a world leader. he gave a speech in berlin, and here to break it down with me the noble albert hunt junior citizen of the world. take it down. what about these important alliances in the world. jeb bush: 70 years after the

cold war, that alliance is as relevant today as the day it was founded. who will say otherwise? as we watch the fate of ukraine slowly unfold in tragedy and who wishes we had less military strength and credibility at a time when a ron stands on the -- iran stands on the threshold of becoming a nuclear arms state and it continues to support terrorism in the middle east? who else but us will build the global effort to thwart a terrorist army that now holds large parts of iraq in syria? john: barack obama went to berlin not quite seven years ago talking about alliances. here is jeb bush talking about alliances. what you think about the tone and the substance coming from a republican at this point in time? al: it's interesting.

there have been great speeches by americans in berlin. jfk, ronald reagan, barack obama. this will not join that list. he did not do any harm. but when you compare it to the obama speech seven years ago, that's exactly what obama talked about, but obama did it in the context of opposing the george w. bush administration for the unilateralism. i think it will be much more of a multilateral. john: you think so? you heard his first foreign-policy speech he sounded a lot like george w. bush. and neocon through and through. al: i am not sure that w was a neocon. i think that cheney dragged him there. there are no policy differentiations between jeff

and his brother, but i do think it's interesting. -- between jeb and his brother but it do think it's interesting. john: here is jeb bush talking about a very important issue for germany and at this moment russia. jeb bush: there should be a clear understanding of first of all, our support for the russian people, that we need to make it clear that while mr. putin is a ruthless pragmatist, he will push until someone pushes back that we should never do it in a way that pushes russia away for a generation of time. that ultimately russia needs to be a european nation and that everything we do ought to be to isolate his corrupt leadership from its people. were beginning to realize the reset button did not turn out so hot. john: a little sting in the tale, a shot at a shot at hillary clinton with the reset button. al: who can argue with the reset

button being off the track? that's absolutely right. i think it was probably more realistic. we need russia for a lot of things. we need them for a ron -- iran for iraq syria. there was less saber rattling than a lot of the republican right would like to hear. john: do you think that will come back -- obviously like a gotcha thing, but do you think his republican rivals and especially voters will look at him and say, boy, he is kind of a softy? al: i think it will be thrown back at him by rivals. i do not think it will be a determinative issue. john: let's listen to our last clip here, jeb bush talking about his dad. jeb bush: you will understand if i note as a point of personal pride that my dad, the greatest

man i ever met, the greatest man alive in my humble opinion -- [applause] jeb bush: when he was president worked very closely with chancellor kohl as it used and west came together. that unification, as you all know, was not inevitable. many doubted it. many in this country doubted it and the united states as well whether it should even be attempted. but chancellor kohl was adamant and my father was deeply supportive. the work was done and because of that germany is whole and free. john: interesting, the praise for his father, not in the prepared text he had with that. what you think the motivation was to talk about his dad that way? al: to a dinner five foreign-policy with bush 41. if you look at that record, managing the end of the cold war -- an absolute success. germany reunification, success. as opposed to bush 43 were you cannot find any foreign-policy

success. you guys know more about politics. what if you could get from 41 to 44 without going through 43, jeb bush would be a lot better shape. john: i can do better than that. the best headline of all time. we'll be right back. ♪

john: millions of years from now, after we humans inevitably destroy each other, aliens will dig through the artifacts we left behind, and they will all be impressed by this -- the wood from the new york post. headless body in topless bar. he may be the only headline rightwriter whose name makes it into a story. mark: instant classic.

remember, we are on twice a day at 5:00 and at 8:00. at 5:00 and at 8:00. until tomorrow, for john in d c, me in chicago, see you soon. sayonara. ♪ . .

alix: we are moments away from the closing bell. this is the bloomberg market day. i'm alix steel. [closing bell ringing] we are looking at the dow falling for a fourth straight day. we are negative on the dow jones industrial average for the year, falling by about five points. you can call it flat, but it was a crazy ride we have seen. the s&p flat, the nasdaq, one of the bigger losers there.