>> from our studios in new york city, this is "charlie rose." charlie: l pacino is here. he is an oscar, tony, and emmy award-winning actor. some actors played characters. al pacino becomes them. here is a look at some of his work. [indiscernible] question you are still my wife? you are supposed to love me. >> i was going to go out and score for you.

>> you are in trouble! >> i don't care if you are in trouble! >> where am i going to go? >> you broke my heart. >> you broke my heart. >> get over there, will you! he wants to kill me so bad, he can taste it. >> you want to play rough? ok! say hello to my friend! >> you want to learn the first rule? you would know it if you ever

spent a day in your life. you never open your mouth until you know what the shot is. >> there was a time i could see, and i have seen. boys like these, younger than these, their arms torn out their legs ripped off -- boys but there is nothing like the site of a amputated's.. there is no prosthetic for that. >> the difference between you and some poor bass third you're going to -- you are going to turn into a widow, brother, you are going down. >> this guy is the top scientist in the number three tobacco company in america. he's a corporate officer. you never get whistleblowers from fortune 500 companies. this guy is the ultimate insider. he's got something to say. >> you may call it a killing. i call it something else. i call it a medical service for an agonized, incurably suffering patient.

charlie: over the years many of his contemporaries have spoken about him on this show. >> it is almost impossible for him to do anything false. he doesn't know how to. the lines will go -- he won't be able to get out of a chair. there's a line of truth in him. that is in violet. where you really see it to its magnificence is in "the godfather." >> he knows where the camera every mark, every hit, he hits the mark, never fails. he knows that cutting, the editing, and then within that very structured form that film is, very tight, he's utterly free and is so inspiring to be around. charlie: this past january chino

starred in a film adaptation of philip roth's novel "the humbling." >> hello. >> oh! look at this! >> this is emily. >> let me take that. >> are you hurt? >> look what happened to him. >> what's in here? >> some of my things. >> don't you think it's time you told your parents about us? charlie: in a second film released, pacino plays an aging rock star who received a letter from john lennon and decides to change his life. >> no way! hello, l.a. >> you can't choose

your fans, danny and. >> you don't surprise a guy my age, you give me a heart attack. >> do you remember when you were a kid, "time" magazine? >> you read like lennon, man. he wrote you a letter in 1971. >> can you believe it? >> dear danny collins, stay true to yourself, stay true to your music. my phone number is below. we can discuss this. i have not written a song in 30 years. i'm having a breakdown. i'm broken. i have nothing left to break. what would happen if i got that letter when i was supposed to and i canceled the rest of the tour? i need a plane. jersey. >> welcome to the hilton. look who it is. >> you are staying indefinitely here? are you on drugs? >> currently, or in general? >> currently. >> no. >> dinner? >> you are asking me to dinner?

>> yes. >> i'm going to have to decline. >> why new jersey? >> i am meeting someone for the first time. how do i look? >> you look slightly ridiculous. >> see what seven. >> no, you won't. why are you here? >> just making some changes to my life. >> in a few minutes my husband is going to walk through that door and this will be the last time i ever see you. >> i don't care enough to be angry. nice to meet you. have a good life. >> family can be messy, but you should not give up. >> i agree. dinner tomorrow? quest midnight -- >> good night danny. >> i have not written anything in a long time. >> you are nervous. i love that. >> i spent my entire life trying to become the man that you aren't. >> i don't know what to say. >> i don't need you to say

anything. i need you to leave. >> you will have to deal with it, because i'm here. >> you can't buy redemption. dinner tomorrow? >> you know what i like about you? you never give up. >> some dinners are worth fighting for. charlie: danny collins, terrific cast. what a cast. when you see that montage, what do you think about this career in acting that you've had and continue to have? al: it baffles me. you spend your life just moving on. it's one of the perks, but also one of the issues you have when you are with a group of people and you are in the company and you know we all sort of feel that way. actors are transient. charlie: somebody once said, actors are gypsies.

al: they are. they have that in their spirit. when i look at things i've done before -- there is a certain -- mercifully, there is a distance you have. you look at it and say, this all part of if you want to call it development -- i remembered has them had a special evening -- had a special evening, and he said, how did this happen? they did one for me and i went up there and thought, there's no rehab in this. where is the time i was in rehab? i never was in rehab. charlie: the question posed in john lennon's letter in "danny collins to get stay true to yourself, you play to yourself for the most part, haven't you? al: here and there i have veered off.

i don't know. i don't make those kind of -- i don't think of myself as that at all, that i'm being true to myself. i can feel when i'm not. i feel when i'm off the track. charlie: in your personal life or in performance? al: in both. more in performance than personal life. personal life is too random. i am playing characters who live these lives all over the world and stuff and gone through the accessibility of things in our life and our world. charlie: do you keep saying yes to parts? you have these two movies coming out. you keep saying yes. when i see them making a movie i want to walk the other way. al: it's true, i do. i think i've gotten out of something when i'm finished with it, when i see people, campers

and they have the wires on the floor and the cameras, i just go to the other side because i feel as though i know what they are going through. it is different when you direct a movie because in every part of it -- it's also different for an actor as you prepare for a movie. there is the rehearsal period, which we don't have enough of in films today. the early on movies i did in the 1970's, we had a substantial rehearsal period to develop characters and relationships with other actors. here you just -- in this movie we had no rehearsal in "danny collins." charlie: because of the budget? al: that is what it is. the budget is what we are always facing.

we would reverse in my house on weekends to get what we could -- rehearse in my house on weekends to get what we could. charlie: why do you do it? is it because it's what you love? because who you are? you have all the great things anyone would aspire to. he said, charlie, it's what i do. i'm a fighter. and you would say, i'm an actor? al: yeah, it's funny. you have the text. i live by the text. the play's the thing, shakespeare. when i see that text, i don't want to -- i don't want to act. i don't want to do it. charlie: you need to be in movies. al: i don't think i need it until i read it. the process -- it is ever-changing, because there is

a time when you want to do something because it challenges you, and you feel you will learn something from it, so you do it, and you can fall flat on your face, but mostly you are trying to evaluate things in your life and deal with the very -- i have children and things could things come up. at the same time, that is script. i read a script the other day. i had not read anything. they put me back in kind of thing. charlie: you think about what i could do with this character the excitement of getting inside of the character. al: yeah, it is the world the writer creates, it is the text the opportunity. i have an opportunity to do this again or for the first time. there is something about -- what i do, like you said.

it's almost an obligation to get involved, i feel. charlie: this is for you. as they say, business, add value to this. al: or i can find something in a thing that i am doing that relates to something inside of me that i have been wanting to express or talk about is some way. it is a form of speaking. when i first started, i think what kept me an actor was when i realized that i could speak through this venue and i could speak about things in life that i could not speak about before just did not know how. i could not find the words. but the playwright allowed me to express something. charlie: it is the coming together of the actor and the text. the possibility to make it bigger, that is what an actor adds.

al: and to move on from a life you know to a life you may not know, and find out about it, get a sense that you are involved in something that is bigger than your life. ♪

charlie: "the humbling," philip roth novel, you liked it? al: yes. charlie: what attracted you to it in terms of -- as an actor did you see their things you had thought about? al: i saw it as a potential movie at a certain point in life, there are certain things you can't do anymore. your age comes in and you are trying to find something suitable. charlie it happens to everybody. : al: the athletes, it is more obvious. charlie: the interesting thing about acting is it is a bit like people who say you should not read certain tolstoy until you are 30.

al: they say you should not do "hamlet" until you are 40, except you have to do "hamlet" earlier because you won't do it if you wait until 40. you will learn too much and no -- and no it is impossible -- and know it is impossible. i love when the young actors do it. i did not do it. i never felt i was right for "hamlet." i love the play. i never did it. i just did not feel i could exist in that play. i thought like other people have come up when i get on this when i get older, i will understand it more. there's a question of understanding it as an audience and understanding it as an artist, and that is the separation. charlie: a look kazan had you do a reading. al: strasburg. i was afraid to do anything. i was very young, i got to the

actors studio at a young age. i sat around and watched them and then i would go home. throughout my life i had learned, i committed to memory certain monologues that i liked. charlie: you were almost a teenager than. al: it was my early 20's. i thought, i've got these monologues, and i had them committed to my mind. i went up for the first time. i was sitting there six months. finally i got up the nerve to sign up. lee strasburg looks at the paper. he was able to pronounce my name. he said, al pacino, yes, what's this, "hamlet"? and the iceman cometh.

i thought, ok. we take all kinds in here. i get up there and i did a ferocious rogen doesn't. and i went wild with the -- i was really giving it the old gung ho. stepping on the gas and stuff. it wasn't really that good. it was over and he was looking at me, and the audience got kind of cheery about it because it had a lot of commitment and energy, and i was young. he said, listen, al, here is what i would like you to do immediately. this was the genius with him. he said, i went you to do "hamlet" as hickey from "the iceman cometh." and hickey as hamlet. and i immediately went into it. i just switched it. charlie: you had the character

of hamlet in the text of hickey? al: yes. and the text of hamlet and hickey. i learned more that dave and i have my entire life. charlie: the first line of philip's book is called, he lost his magic. do you fear that? al: you can imagine, to know that -- as you get older too the stamina to do especially what this character does -- he does theater. eight performances a week job, enormous roles. i don't know if you saw the movie "the dress." they don't even know what character they're playing. they did three a day. i did one a day. the exhaustion -- the tools you have as an actor, which is your own energy, your own appetite, i don't think you can get up there and do "king lear" if you don't

have an appetite. it's just impossible to do. but you have to find -- you can't walk through it. maybe if you are doing a movie of it, it's possible. charlie: but in one sustained performance -- al: no. charlie: do you want to do "lear"? al: no. not particularly. i can see myself possibly doing it one day as a movie, possibly. it's great, of course. but i have not found my way to "lear." i don't think it's my role. charlie: but you love richard. al: richard i could do it again. i did a reading of it. i was at the philadelphia philharmonic. i was hosting, believe it or not, the 158 anniversary of the theater there.

i was the mc of the thing -- i don't know how that happened. i found myself doing it. i was really mainly talking about the first time i heard serious music. remember the old lewis and stadium? i heard stravinsky "right of spring." i was there when stravinsky himself conducted it. i will never forget that. we were talking about times we heard the music for the first time. anyway, i did richard. i did several poems. e.e. cummings. with the music behind me. this was a new experience. i thought, maybe i should do this. chris plumber does it from time to time. so i did richard, and my great

friend charlie told me that she -- he told me, you know, you should try richard again. he said, i should try returning. i said, yes. i wonder why he said that. and i went to philadelphia. two years later i'm up there doing richard, and it was so different. it was so much a part of me anyway. -- in a way. and i added something. charlie: richard had not changed, you had changed. al: i had changed. i was young, early 30's. this is me doing richard. i would be in the dressing room. i was in the rectory because we did it in the church. it was in the midst of real turmoil in my life. i had just become a movie star and i was drinking.

before i would go on and i would come out of the pulpit. i would not go out. i would stay in the dressing room, which is in the rectory. i had this girl. she was a spunky girl. i won't mention her name. very young apprentice, i think she was at harvard. she was my assistant. she was so smart and so much fun to be with, but she was just my assistant. i would be there in the rectory making up for richard. she would come in and say, five minutes now. i said, doesn't matter what it is. it happened every night. i said, i'm not doing it tonight. she says, no. you have to do it. i said, no.

i'm not doing it. you're not in a make me do this. she says i'm not going to make you? yes, i am. i say, stay away for me. she would say, you get on that stage. i said, you do it. we would have that fierce fight. all of a sudden i would hear "places" and i was ready to go. now that is preparation. i don't know what kind of preparation is that. i never heard that. but the point is you get it when you can, it comes to you in the moment. charlie: and you have to find it? al: yes. i think. at least when you are doing -- i would call the richard i did at the church of the covenant, i would call that inspired. after that, the richard i did is basically a lot of it by the numbers. a lot of it tried to remember what i had done before. it did not have the same flavor, it did not have the same -- it wasn't coming from the same place of expression, so to speak. charlie: in inhabiting a character, do you have to find a

hook to you, something about the character? someone once said, it may have been olivier, the when i put on the suit with the character -- when you are unlocking the character, because you will inhabit the character, what do you look for? anything other than what the text says to you? al: yeah. you look for that thing that moves you. i don't know what it is. i like repetition. the saying goes, repetition keeps me green. i like that saying. because the idea that we do performances over and over, it is in the repetition that the creation comes, that the expression comes.

i was doing richard wants, and not particularly well, and the show is going on, and we could not get this court scene. i did not understand what i was doing in the scene. we would call rehearsals. we would talk about it, this kind of work for people together are trying to figure out something. the 85th performance of richard, my 85th entrance, i understood it. i knew the court scene. i was there. i could play it. charlie: but not in 1984? al: no. i might have been getting closer and did not realize it. i gave up the ghost, i guess. i just gave it up. screw it, it's not going to happen. and i found it. when sam levine remember the great actor sam levine?

i was watching "the royal family" once in the theater. sam levine comes in, just opens the doors and comes in. i was a young actor at the time. i thought, wow. charlie: that's entrance. al: it wasn't an entrance. it was something else. it was a gift. he was opening the doors to something spectacular, with light in it, everything, and energy and joy. you know what it was? he has done it for 50 years. that is a big thing. charlie: did you ever use that in terms of performance? al: i have been performances that got worse until they got better. charlie: because you are searching. al: there was a thing i did when i was doing "american buffalo." i did it all over the world. i remember people talking, he's like a tiger, he struts back and a leopard in a cage or something.

i thought that was very nice. probably that's what i was doing for a while. after doing it for four years on and off, i found myself in boston. and i came out, and i see the opening soliloquy beautifully. written by david mamet. and i come in the whole thing and i'm doing this and i'm on stage for about 10 minutes. that's a long time right? and i realized i had not moved from the spot. what happened is the economy came. that thing came. it wasn't there for years and then adjust came. -- it just came. charlie: some people say the act of art is getting it down to a size.

it is taking a role or a painting, it is defining it down to where it works for you. al: that's right. stripping away. charlie: so what you see is the essence of a character, of the scene. al: you see it in sports too. he didn't do anything. of course, this is a chu go for. ♪

charlie: you mentioned david mamet. what is it about the two of you? al: the new play is coming out in the fall. charlie: do his words speak to you? he has the sense of a character? al: he and i just hear it. he has a sense of the world. we are colleagues on this play he is doing, collaborating good he's doing all the work, but i'm there. it's good to have someone even for him to bounce off of. i'm home thinking about something. i see him there a few days later, a week later. he is sitting down while i am thinking about it. i go, just go with that. to call him a great writer is

redundant, but at the same time, he surprises me because he understands -- i believe shakespeare was an actor. charlie: "merchant of venice" you love. you have done that more than once. al: i was in the movie. and then knighted the play. i knew the great dan sullivan wanted me to play it. i thought yes, this is the time to play. because i learned about it in the movie a certain way and i took attack on it because it's a movie. with theater you can explore more. movies it is hard to explore. i knew it would be a different struggle. it was a great adventure for me to do this part.

charlie: do you want to be in "macbeth"? al: i'm not even supposed to mention the name. charlie: it is myth of the theater that you cannot mention the name. al: i love the play. who wouldn't? but i don't know. charlie: what else is on that list? al: i guess maybe doing "richard" again. that's a part i wanted to play and i was ready to play it. iago. charlie: do you still want? al: i want to play it. the thing is the cart is before the horse. sometimes you just get it and you go. in my off time for years what i

do is -- i practically know the arguments from the longest written part in shakespeare is he on go -- iago. i know "hamlet." i know the parts. i know the text. i practice it right everything changes when you get in the real -- it is like shadowboxing until you get in the ring, it's a different story. i love the idea of driving a car. it's like you're driving a car and everything is good, you get in the car, you have no keys. you do everything right. everything is working and you say, i can do this. that you turn the key and the car goes and pretty soon you are like, what is this? and you are ducking cars and going on the sidewalk. that is the difference between rehearsing alone and with other people. at least you get a familiarity. i love the place, i love learning.

it is fun to say some of those words. charlie: you almost dropped out of high school, didn't you, to go act? al: i did drop out of high school. actually, i went to work. we needed money in my family. economic necessity at the time. i did go to the village age 17 and i was really fed by all that was going on in the 1960's. i was going to coffee houses in the village and doing shows of whatever play, passing the straw basket around, the audience would drop something. charlie: what is the nature of the friendship? charles lot -- charles lambton. al: you could call it symbiotic.

at the same time, mentor. i was 17, and he was teaching over there. he was a student of lee strasburg. great people. i was a kid, a teenager, really. i took one look at this guy, and i knew -- i came from that. there was a familiarity. charlie: i know you have talked about this before. when you did "dog day afternoon," did you know that you and sydney had created something? al: when we were doing it -- we rehearsed for a long time, and i remember as charlie once said, you pull the pin and let it go. as sydney said to me, it has its own life, al.

it has a life of its own. i couldn't tell. marty bergman very wisely -- i was streaking in those days too. -- i was drinking in those days, too. i was put in an apartment under the bank. me and judith would be hitting on weed. judith molina. she played my mother. they were all upstairs. i was downstairs alone. sydney moved. first of all, we had rehearsed for a month. he just move the actors along. it was all about performance and stuff. when i would go up there -- when i had a reshoot, i came back to the bank and sydney wanted me to reshoot. he saw after the last shot that

that fellow i was channeling in some way, whatever the character was, evaporated. it just went out of me like that. it was gone. when i had to come back, i had to re-create something because we had to reshoot something. i could not get it. charlie: akin to the idea of how long does an actor take a part with him. does it stick with you for a week or a month? once it evaporates, suppose you have to reshoot, can you recapture it? al: things have changed for me now. i have been doing it so long. i let it go relatively easy. charlie: not hard to do, just let it go. al: i used to go back when i was younger, i would go back. when we were leaving boston i went in the dressing room.

i would say, i'm going now, so i've got to move on. i've got to leave you here. it was a line from the play. that was the thing. i had to literally do that. "godfather" stuck with me for a while, the place i had to go to. charlie: you did not see him as a gangster, did you? al: no. charlie: you saw him as? al: someone who inherited this thing, and this was there. charlie: did not expect to be there at that time in his life but then understood it was his responsibility to family. al: destiny. i always felt bad about him. he had certain ingredients that would allow him to do what he

did, and his father saw that in him early on. that's a long story with that one. i never wanted to play that part. it was francis that got me to do it. he wanted me to play that part. charlie: he fought for you too. al: fought for me. to such a degree. i kept saying differences, it's all right, i'm doing other things. i was afraid of the role. charlie: some actors say that is good, when they are afraid of the role, that's the best thing they can have. it has to scare them to be motivated to do it. al: that certainly helped me with that, but like how anyone sees una role, -- you in a role, you are good for a period when you become well-known. you don't know whether someone once you because they see you in

the part or because you made the movie. you can get confused by that. sometimes you do roles, but the best time is when a director wants you. charlie: how well did you know marlon brando? al: enough to love him. i did not know him as well as other people have. i found him to be that kind of sensitivity where he can sort of feel you, he feels your stuff and he gets very concerned. he was concerned about me because at the time there was so much controversy, and that i was going to -- before i was shooting "godfather." he came up to me and was doing a massage on my shoulders because he knew that i was going to go.

i was a man that did not have long left for the set, because francis wanted me, the studio didn't. they did not want brando either. but me, it did not matter. they were just shocked that francis wanted me. jerry shuts berg directed "panic in needle park." charlie: he was a photographer too, wasn't he? al: just a beautiful directorial. charlie: francis brought them in? al: "panic in needle park." they got me in. there are scenes -- the part is built.

the part of michael corleone is built. it is constructed in such a way that starts almost like a shadow and turns into this presence. that was the way i thought of finally getting to that so that by the time you see him in the end, he's kind of an enigma, and that is part of the power of him. you don't know where he came from. charlie: does it make you like two better than one? al: i like them both. one has its story, it is the original. it's a great story. two has francis's story. he talks about himself in that movie. a lot of his personal feelings he gets out about himself and everything, and that is what gives him that power. charlie: brando became interested in this show. he would watch it all the time. and he would call me up. what was his gift?

al: it's hard to define. a genius of character, that's all i can say. he did cross that line where he had the great beauty is a movie star, and he was a character. you had paul muni before that that was a character, great actor, but never did you have a movie star, the great movie stars and the great actors including gary cooper, wonderful to watch, but marlon was a character actor. he played roles that were different from each other, very distinctly different from each other. charlie: how have you managed to be a star to this day and not play in character roles as much as you play stars? you are at the center of these

two films. al: well, i'm going by the -- charlie: the box office? you tell me. al: some movies i have made that a character driven, different characters i play, i don't know. it is always a mystery to me that i am actually here talking to you and still doing this thing, but i started early as an actor. i was seen in new york in a play, "the indian once the bronx to get in which i got a -- "the indian wants the bronx," which i got a newbie award for. it was faye dunaway who saw me in this play.

that play, there was something in that play. i had been acting may be 10 years before that. i was quite young, mid-20's. i did feel that i went from being this explorer in my work to experimenting and trying to learn more about the classics in connection to it and doing things. i got a lot of joy out of that great i was in a place called the actors gallery, which nobody could even find in these days. continuing in the village and all of that, and then to finally be lauded in a way, everything

up the stakes. the start thing came in. the title came in. i was trying to preserve something i thought i understood earlier on, because i found myself in an open world which i liked. i thought it was a good thing, and i still think it was a good thing. things happen that way sometimes. there was maybe something happened that was somewhat new a new kind of person that wasn't comparable to other things other people were seeing, came out of the 60's, came out of this time in america where people like me were being given an opportunity,

whatever. i don't know. it was a combination of things. i remember one time i did the scene, charlie was in class with me, we did the scene in the studio. i will never forget this. charlie, i saw him on his deathbed and i said to him charlie, remember the time when they were doing this big thing and i was one of the scenes in the school, and every teacher brought their student in that they wanted to show how they were doing that. i went into this thing, and i did this scene. when i came to see you, charlie, grab me, good stuff. then the teacher got up i went crazy against me, thought it was the worst great said, who do you think you are, luther adler? what is this about? i told charlie in the hospital to you remember that? what was that? why was he doing that?

why did he get so upset? he said, he saw a new time, a new era. i thought that that in some way -- it's very dramatic to hear that, but i do know that would it was -- that it was interesting because it was new. it happens to me too. something new comes along. we get used to it. in the old days, actors had to be a certain way and be a certain height so they would be seen in the audience. i don't mean to go per myself -- to compare myself with people like edmund kean, but i was always reading books about actors. edmund kean came at a time where he came from a whole other climate, whole other world. when he went on the stage, it

was new. and went -- and when he went on the stage, it was something new. there something about the roles i have played in the situation and at times we were in the connected, and i got lucky really. then it has been this thing all my life. i know you have heard it a lot. everybody says it, but it's true. it is luck and timing. i remember saying once to someone -- because we are all together, we are all together, we're actors, look better than anybody else and really in that way. at the same time, i remember this guy saying to me, you know what you are doing so well -- i said, why you, why not me? i said, i always wanted this. i want this stuff that you had. i said, you want it?

i think i had to have it. charlie: oh, wow. had to have it. al: that is an interesting distinction, you know. one doesn't know. i'm just mouthing now because i don't know. i think there was a period -- i had to have it. and believe it or not i could , tell -- i knew at some point this was my time. i never thought it would turn into this naturally. i knew it was my time that i would be seen in some way, and at this point in the play -- went up to boston, i did two three plays there. no, i went to do boston, a repertory. i went to do a part in a play. there's no way. you are going to be great for this. i thought, maybe i will be. i got up and did it and it was

not good at all. as a matter of fact i remember , that i was in the dressing room and somebody came down, and i heard it on the speaker. this guy in the dressing room was really excited by this review he was reading of the play we were doing. i said, what's that? why is he covering it? i said, can i see that? he said, ok, here. he pushed it over to me. i saw this great review. this person, that person. with one exception. it was al pacino in the role of so-and-so, it was terrible. as i was reading it, my cue came on the speaker. i had to perform after reading that in the play he was criticizing me in. at a certain time, the ability to look at something like that and laugh might have helped me a little bit.

i don't know. it hurt. another part i did not even want to do i was ok at. it is always the question of what do we do. you are walking along, you see a certain trait, you need to take a picture or you get the canvas out and you paint it. you never know when it's going to happen. with actors, if you don't try it, you are not going to know. what happens is you start to center yourself. -- censor yourself to when you start censoring yourself, it gets a little -- because we don't know. charlie: you have been willing to take risks. al: yeah. charlie: thank you for coming. al: my pleasure. charlie: two remarkable profiles of actors, when a singer and won a theater actor, looking at their own life and where they are and what they might have missed and where they might go. thank you for joining us.

see you next time. ♪

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