they: he has been dubbed "venture cowboy." along with that's -- with bets on uber and instagram. he also wrote a check to buy twitter. the biggest outside investor by the time of the ipo. he recently made news by outlining his vision for the future of twitter, addressing the possibility that twitter sell to a bigger company like google or facebook. i sat down with chris sacca

billionaire just before dick costolo announced he was stepping down. emily: thanks for steppinbeing here. i hope you don't mind me calling you brash. you just wrote a 185 word missive about what twitter can be. before we cut between medicare sponsored scooter -- what is twitter's future? chris: 8500 words sounds like a term paper. i had been invested and a user of twitter since 2006. i have been obsessed. there have been more than one billion people who have tried it and not stuck around. there needs to be easier and less intimidating for this people. emily: what is been the reaction from twitter? have you heard from dick? chris: no, i haven't heard from. to be clear, i don't talk to dick that frequently anyway. it is not out of the ordinary

for me to not hear from him. i talked to a bunch of other people at the company. it was a well received post that i think, done right, can a set them up for success. it points wall street in the direction of how you should be evaluating the company. you should not be headhunting the ceo, you should be focusing on these things. if they execute all of the stuff that i laid out, no one o would be asking the question if dick costolo should be ceo anymore. when you tweet, it feels kind of lonely. they need to make it where if you don't do a lot of work, you can follow tweets related to the game, the election, the protest. a heart-- emily: you want a heart? the hearts do make you feel good. chris: it makes you feel it knowledged, heard, valued.

but, is this really one of my favorite posts? emily: dick costolo was on the show and says twitter is the best way to connect to what is happening in your world. i'm confident that that is where twitter is an everyone at the company is confident about. is that enough for you? chris: mission statements and taglines leave people feeling empty-handed in a directionless. it is a complex product that has to appeal to the myriad audience. i don't think when a single tagline is going to do it. emily: he has been waiting t -- you have been waving the pom pom for 1000 years. you have your house painted aqua ? chris: we have a blue ribbon house. -- blue room in the house. emily: why speak up about it now? chris: i think we have the right team. i think addict -- i think dick finally has his squad.

emily: what you pick up the phone and email them? chris: i wanted to do it externally. the audience for me was those working at the company, not just those working at the company for a long time that are just, yes, yes, yes. if the company starts delivering on it, i think everybody wins. chris: you are not an engineer or a product guy. --emily: why do you think they should listen to you? chris: i have a good track record -- uber, kickstarter, gawker, i would like to think 1 or 2 of these things might be lucky, but probably not an accident. i think you have to trust your own intuition as a person. one of the most interesting challenges in silicon valley is that the people who are not your users do not have any voice. that is the challenge all of these companies need to start incorporating, the potential to be bigger and more meaningful than a facebook. if dick executes on this stuff,

then that is the ceo of this company. emily: have you talked to the founders? chris: i have not talked to jack recently. i didn't bump into heaven in the studio. -- i did bump into evan in the studio. evan, while we were still working there, we discussed things that he would believe our are worth doing. this is not the five-year vision of twitter, it is where's they should be no. -- where they should be now. they are just playing catch-up. emily: is google writing twitter realistic? -- google buying twitter realistic? speculation has been going on about this for years. chris: the board doesn't have anybody that wants to be in it forever. nobody owns 80% of the stock or could block a deal like that. -- 50% of the stock.

i think google would like to buy twitter. i think they never got social personal identity, real time, or anything, they haven't nailed that. google go tot let twitter without puttingi n in a bid. changed.mine has not his perception that twitter is not doing everything they could has not changed. he would love the opportunity to own it and to improve some of the things. you have a user at microsoft who has watched it. its twitter was selling data, microsoft revisited it was across from any and dick costolo -- from me and dick costolo. i think alibaba might be interested too. emily: you think facebook,

microsoft, they would all by twitter. -- all buy twitter. chris: their shareholders paid a lot of money for. theirld fit into companies without blowing out or competing with something. emily: what about apple? chris: i don't think they care. it is not in their bones, they don't care enough. i think they go in a different direction. they don't care as much about the social elements. i just want to be clear about this, though -- i don't think twitter should sell to them. there is literally unlimited potential in what twitter can build to get to 100 million more people. the stock will, be trading in the 70's, 80's, and 90's. that is what i am not campaigning privately or publicly or its to be sold. i don't see anybody on the board that would block that sale. i think sometimes when of the founder is still running the

company, people defer to their judgment. i think you are alleged to be weirder and a bit more eccentric. dick doesn't have the benefit of being the founder, and people don't give him that benefit of the doubt by default. emily: what are some of the things that you suggest -- what if some of the things you suggest don't happen? chris: the company will go sideways. the stock will go sideways, more people calling for management tags, it will be harder to land the talented people they want to work there. user growth is accelerating, revenue is the accelerating as a result, and they should give the company to someone who can do better with. emily: do you have a preference on those as an investor? chris: no. when facebook tried to acquire went down to a meeting with zuckerberg. they then called dick and i for advice in hawaii. we are here on speakerphone

listening to the offer trying to think about. those guys always knew it was going to be huge. they were always a couple steps ahead of us. emily: do you want something more here? do you want to be a board member? do you want to be ceo? [laughter] chris: i don't want a "job" job. no, i like what i do for a living. we have over 800 investment. lower case capital consists of 3 people. we don't have office space. works out of the back of a winery that she runs. my partner is in la working on planes at a portfolio company. i don't really have an assistant. emily: how big do you think uber can be? chris: that is truly limitless. ♪

emily: what is the myth of chris

sacca and what is the reality? chris: emily: i never followed the right step-by-step cap. i had no business quitting my job at google. they were getting pretty big. i was not good at playing company politics. this guy was going places. he will be the ceo of google sunday. it was just obvious back in the day that he wouldn't do that. emily: what do you think of how he is leading google now? chris: sundar is a great couple met to -- great complement to larry. he can actually navigate a big company, and i can't. i have short elbows, i am impatient in ways that i don't think are more similar to elon than sundar. emily: in what way? chris: tough to work with. i demand everything to be exactly right.

with my parents excellence where it was expected. it wasn't donated, we just had to do -- it wasn't demanded, we had to do everything right at the same time. emily: at google you were described as an man who didn't always go to meetings, but got stuff done and might have rubbed people wrong way. known as the guy who got * * done. i know why it rubbed some people the wrong way, but i did get stuff done. emily: what do you think about the moon shot? is that what they should be concentrating on right now? chris: yeah, i do. no one would tell you that self driving cars is a small idea. that would be worth more than all of google is today. what they are in doing in health and robotics could change

everything forever. when they have dropped the ball are things that are incremental where they are right now. it is a bummer that youtube is not more social with the comment is after. -- comment disaster. i've no doubt about facebook's ability to reinvent itself. they have used their market capital to buy the coolest stuff. zuckerberg knows what he's doing. he was on top of instagram and closed out that deal. chrisemily: do you think kevin d to early? -- too early? chris: he sold at like $600 million, which is probably worth $800 million now. if you would tell me you wouldn't treat everything you have right now for $800 million. emily: could he have more? chris: he certainly could have had more. but he could have zero too. he has the best of all worlds. he sold the company, made a ton of money, and now left alone to

continue to execute on what he's wanted to do. kevin has had an amazingly. dj'ing in vegas. i've never seen anyone dress better than enough guy. he drinks the best bourbon. he goes to fashion week in paris and everybody falls all over him how he is changed the world of fashion. i don't feel bad for kevin one bit. emily: what about snapchat? here tuesday, -- here to stay, or just a fad? chris: they will be around for a while. sitof their guys try to to down with me. at first i didn't understand it. i was like, is this a dick pic thing? i was told to invest in go pro. all of these times by focus so much on the negative case, that i don't focus on the positive. i think somebody might get raped or murdered while they are

staying at some of health and the blood will be on your hands, and i said this out loud to the guy. emily: you didn't pass on uber. you only 4% of the committee. -- of the company. chris: i was one of the very first investors. i very deep convictions. emily: you don't think uber has used very dirty tactics? chris: i don't. i think they have used aggressive tactics. emily: how big do you think uber can be? emily: chris: that is truly limitless. i don't think it will be at least with $200 billion by the topic of public. emily: taking on fedex, is that some think they would do? chris: they are delivering packages to hong kong now. i did not invest in ship because i think it is something uber will likely give. t stock own instacar because i think it is something uber will do. i think his ambition is

boundless and his ability to execute on that is a limited. is un a limite -- u limited. i think travis has a personality like mine. if i am involved in your business, i will share my opinions about how aspects are going. they will be very strong opinions, likely to be in your face. we have a different way of doing. i think i can rub people the wrong way. they can be pretty mutual. in particular, i wanted to own more uber stock. at the time i was trying to buy it from more people, and travis didn't like that. that scratches the surface of more tension that was between us already. emily: have you tried to mend fence? chris: working professionally is the best way for us to get along. that is a good way for us to collaborate for now.

emily: what is the craziest thing that is seven in the -- that has happened in the jam tub? chris: only when travis stayed in there for seven hours. that doesn't seem humanly possible.

emily: what do you think is going on right now in silicon valley? we are seeing unicorn valuations. chris: decacorn. we have the culture of secrecy in a silicon valley where you don't people your numbers or business model, you don't tell them about the future. emily: isn't that interest -- isn't that dangerous? chris: it is very dangerous. the story of people living lavish lives is attracting more attention and more posers, and without attention comes sloppy discipline and a tonic money. -- and a ton of money. day lasteds, demo

all day. live code, we could ask questions, walk up and try it during demo day. in the deal didn't get done that day, we could work on it. demo day today, what is it, 80 companies a class? 3 minutes, no live code, and half of the deals are completed before they do demo day. i think it speaks behind desperation of investors. some are taking money away from companies that could probably use that money. they are taking talent away from companies that could use that talent. they are taking investor and advisor attention away. i think there is a lot of waste happening in the valley right now. some of these valuations and the accessibility of capital is bananas. it is an amazingly rigged game, the investing game. i don't think the public market will hold up forever.

i don't think the economy will support the market being open. i think the public market basically closes fine by the end of the year. for anything with quality lower than an uber, frankly. emily: what do you mean by that? chris: you have a bunch of companies sitting around with no exit path. emily: you think the tide will turn by the end of the year? chris: the market will dry up. i think there will be some pain out here for the companies themselves. emily: what happens to all of these unicorns and decacorns? how many of these are horses masquerading? chris: i think there are some showing up nine figures with no diligence. the publicly stated rationale was that -- if you look at the thing, it is not a tourist race. travis is never going to buy it. emily: you think lyft is gone? chris: lyft doesn't survive

this. uber has better math, better pickup times, higher quality of service. emily: you are a big uber inves tor. chris: i would be a bigger investor on that service alone. i just don't think they are going to compete. this is a win or take all game. and travis will take all. emily: will there be a downturn in a silicon valley? chris: yes. it is inevitable that the funds putting this money to work will not see it all back. emily: are we in a bubble? is the bubble going to pop? chris: there are multiple ways to define. no?y: yes or chris: yes, some companies are going to go away. five-year -- by the year when you can't get a u-haul because they are gone all one way out of town, no, i don't think so

because this is the epicenter of innovation, just out of whack right now. emily: what you think is the biggest problem in silicon valley not being talked about now? chris: there is no one normal here now. all of the normal regular people have been priced out. the artists and musicians can't live here. you don't even need nurses or doctors, frankly, who can't afford this city. that is messed up. i think the biggest problem here is that pewter science programs are so lucrative now -- computer science programs are so lucrative that they don't need to go to. the never had a jobs, they never waited tables. we have a generation of software engineers working at these companies who have very little compassion. we have an increasingly limited worldview, that is really out of touch with how the rest of the world lives. i would like to see more people get the hell out of here and be around real people every now and then. we don't have anyone here ever present the voice of a normal, and they are not even our neighbors anyone.

emily: chris sacca, thanks so much for joining us. it is been great to have you. chris: right on. ♪

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