emily: he has been dubbed the "venture cowboy," along with with bets on uber and instagram. he also wrote a big check to buy twitter. the biggest outside investor by the time of the ipo. he recently made news by outlining his vision for the future of twitter, addressing the possibility that twitter sell to a bigger company like google or facebook. i sat down with billionaire chris sacca just before dick costolo announced he was

stepping down. emily: thanks for being here. i hope you don't mind me calling you brash. you just wrote a 8500 word missive about what twitter can be. before we cut to the medicare sponsored scooter -- what is twitter's future? chris: 8500 words sounds like a term paper. i had been invested in and a user of twitter since 2006. i have been obsessed. there have been more than one billion people who have tried it and not stuck around. it needs to be easier and less intimidating for these people. emily: what has been the reaction from twitter? have you heard from dick? chris: no, i haven't heard from him. to be clear, i don't talk to dick that frequently anyway. it is not out of the ordinary for me to not hear from him. i talked to a bunch of other

people at the company. it was a well received post that i think, done right, can a set it points wall street in the direction of how you should be evaluating the company. you should not be headhunting the ceo, you should be focusing on these things. if they execute all of the stuff that i laid out, no one would be asking the question if dick costolo should be ceo anymore. when you tweet, it feels kind of lonely. they need to make it where if you don't do a lot of work, you can follow tweets related to the game, the election, the protest. a heart-- emily: you want a heart? the hearts do make you feel good. chris: it makes you feel it knowledged, heard, valued.

but, is this really one of my favorite posts? emily: dick costolo was on the show previously, and said twitter is the best way to connect to what is happening in your world. i'm confident that that is where twitter is, and everyone at the company is confident about it. is that enough for you? chris: mission statements and taglines leave people feeling empty-handed and directionless. it is a complex product that has to appeal to the myriad audience. i don't think a single tagline is going to do it. emily: you have been waving the pom pom for 1000 years. you have your house painted aqua? chris: we have a blue room in the house. emily: why speak up about it now? chris: i think we have the right team. i think dick finally has his squad. emily: why didn't you pick up the phone and email them? chris: i wanted to do it

externally. the audience for me was those working at the company, not just those working at the company for a long time that are just, "yes, yes, yes." if the company starts delivering on it, i think everybody wins. emily: you are not an engineer or a product guy. why do you think they should listen to you? chris: i have a good track record -- uber, kickstarter, gawker, i would like to think 1 or 2 of these things might be lucky, but probably not an accident. i think you have to trust your own intuition as a person. one of the most interesting challenges in silicon valley is that the people who are not your users do not have any voice. that is the challenge all of these companies need to start incorporating, the potential to be bigger and more meaningful than a facebook. if dick executes on this stuff,

then that is the ceo of this company. emily: have you talked to the founders? chris: i have not talked to jack recently. i did bump into evan in the studio. evan, while we were still working there, we discussed things that he would believe are worth doing. this is not the five-year vision of twitter, it is where's they should be now. they are just playing catch-up. emily: is google buying twitter realistic? speculation has been going on about this for years. chris: the board doesn't have anybody that wants to be in it forever. nobody owns 50% of the stock or could block a deal like that. i think google would like to buy twitter. i think they never got social personal identity, real time, or anything, they haven't nailed that. they would not let google go to twitter without putting in a

bid. the gold mine has not changed. his perception that twitter is not doing everything they could has not changed. he would love the opportunity to own it and to improve some of the things. you have a user at microsoft who has watched it. when twitter was selling its data, microsoft revisited it was across from me and dick costolo. i think alibaba might be interested too. emily: you think facebook, google, alibaba, microsoft, they

would all buy twitter. chris: their shareholders paid a lot of money for it. it would fit into their companies without blowing out or competing with something. emily: what about apple? chris: i don't think they care. it is not in their bones, they don't care enough. i think they go in a different direction. they don't care as much about the social elements. i just want to be clear about this, though -- i don't think twitter should sell to them. there is literally unlimited potential in what twitter can build to get to 100 million more people. if they do that, the stock will be trading in the 70's, 80's, and 90's. that is why i am not campaigning privately or publicly for it to be sold. i don't see anybody on the board that would block that sale. i think sometimes when of the founder is still running the company, people defer to their judgment. i think you are allowed to be

weirder and a bit more eccentric. dick doesn't have the benefit of being the founder, and people don't give him that benefit of the doubt by default. emily: what if some of the things you suggest don't happen? chris: the company will go sideways. the stock will go sideways, more people calling for management tags, it will be harder to land the talented people they want to work there. user growth is accelerating, revenue is the accelerating as a result, and they should give the company to someone who can do better with. emily: do you have a preference on those as an investor? chris: no. when facebook tried to acquire twitter, jack went down to a meeting with zuckerberg. they then called dick and i for

advice while in hawaii. we are sitting there on speakerphone listening to the offer, trying to think about it. those guys always knew it was going to be huge. they were always a couple steps ahead of us. emily: do you want something more here? do you want to be a board member? do you want to be ceo? chris: i don't want a "job" job. [laughter] no, i like what i do for a living. we have over 800 investments. lower case capital consists of 3 people. we don't have office space. my coo works out of the back of a winery that she runs. my partner is in la working on planes at a portfolio company. i don't really have an assistant. emily: how big do you think uber can be? chris: that is truly limitless. ♪

emily: what is the myth of chris sacca and what is the reality?

chris: emily: i never followed the right step-by-step plan. i had no business quitting my job at google. they were getting pretty big. i was not good at playing company politics. with sundar, i knew that this guy was going places. he will be the ceo of google someday it was just obvious back in the day that he would do that. emily: what do you think of how he is leading google now? chris: sundar is a great great compliment to larry. he can actually navigate a big company, and i can't. i have short elbows, i am impatient in ways that i think are more similar to elon than sundar. emily: in what way? chris: tough to work with. i demand everything to be exactly right. i grew up with my parents excellence where it was expected. it wasn't demanded, we had to do everything right at the same

time. emily: at google you were described as an man who didn't always go to meetings, but got stuff done and might have rubbed people wrong way. chris: i was known as the guy it done. i know why it rubbed some people the wrong way, but i did get stuff done. emily: what do you think about the moon shot? is that what they should be concentrating on right now? chris: yeah, i do. no one would tell you that self driving cars is a small idea. that could be worth more than all of google is today. what they are in doing in health and robotics could change everything forever. where they have dropped the ball

are things that are incremental where they are right now. it is a bummer that youtube is not more social with the comment disaster. i've no doubt about facebook's ability to reinvent itself. they have used their market capital to buy the coolest stuff. zuckerberg knows what he's doing. he was on top of instagram and closed out that deal. emily: do you think kevin sold too early? chris: he sold at like $600 million, which is probably worth $800 million now. if you would tell me you wouldn't treat everything you have right now for $800 million. emily: could he have more? chris: he certainly could have had more. but he could have zero too. he has the best of all worlds. he sold the company, made a ton of money, and now left alone to continue to execute on what he's wanted to do. kevin has made off amazingly.

dj-ing in vegas. i've never seen anyone dress better than this guy. he drinks the best bourbon. he goes to fashion week in paris and everybody falls all over him how he is changed the world of fashion. i don't feel bad for kevin one bit. emily: what about snapchat? here to stay, or just a fad? chris: they will be around for a while. two of their guys tried to to sit down with me. at first i didn't understand it. i was like, is this a dick pic thing? i was told to invest in go pro. all of these times i focus so much on the negative case that i don't focus on the positive. i think somebody might get raped or murdered while they are staying at some inn and some of the blood will be on your hands,

and i said this out loud to the guy. emily: you didn't pass on uber. you only 4% of the of the company. chris: i was one of the very first investors. i very deep convictions. emily: you don't think uber has used very dirty tactics? chris: i don't. i think they have used aggressive tactics. emily: how big do you think uber can be? chris: that is truly limitless. i don't think it will be at least with $200 billion by the topic of public. emily: taking on fedex, is that some think they would do? chris: they are delivering packages to hong kong now. i did not invest in ship because i think it is something uber will likely give. i don't own instacart stock because i think it is something uber will do. i think his ambition is boundless and his ability to execute on that is unlimited. i think travis has a personality

like mine. if i am involved in your business, i will share my opinions about how aspects are going. they will be very strong opinions, likely to be in your face. we have a different way of doing. i think i can rub people the wrong way. they can be pretty mutual. in particular, i wanted to own more uber stock. at the time i was trying to buy it from more people, and travis didn't like that. that scratches the surface of more tension that was between us already. emily: have you tried to mend the fence? chris: working professionally is the best way for us to get along. that is a good way for us to collaborate for now. emily: what is the craziest thing that has happened in the jam tub?

chris: only when travis stayed in there for seven hours. that doesn't seem humanly possible. ♪

emily: what do you think is going on right now in silicon valley? we are seeing unicorn valuations. chris: decacorn. we have the culture of secrecy in a silicon valley where you don't tell people your numbers or business model, you don't tell them about the future. emily: isn't that dangerous? chris: it is very dangerous. the story of people living lavish lives is attracting more attention and more posers, and with that attention comes sloppy discipline and a ton of money. it used to be 12 companies, demo day lasted all day. live code, we could ask questions, walk up and try it during demo day. if the deal didn't get done that day, we could work on it.

demo day today, what is it, 80 companies a class? 3 minutes, no live code, and half of the deals are completed before they do demo day. i think it speaks behind the desperation of investors. some are taking money away from companies that could probably use that money. they are taking talent away from companies that could use that talent. they are taking investor and advisor attention away. i think there is a lot of waste happening in the valley right now. some of these valuations and the accessibility of capital is bananas. it is an amazingly rigged game, the investing game. i don't think the public market will hold up forever. i don't think the economy will support the market being open. i think the public market

basically closes fine by the end of the year. for anything with quality lower than an uber, frankly. emily: what do you mean by that? chris: you have a bunch of companies sitting around with no exit path. emily: you think the tide will turn by the end of the year? chris: the market will dry up. i think there will be some pain out here for the companies themselves. emily: what happens to all of these unicorns and decacorns? how many of these are horses masquerading? chris: i think there are some showing up nine figures with no diligence. the publicly stated rationale was that -- if you look at the thing, it is not a tourist race. travis is never going to buy it. emily: you think lyft is gone? chris: lyft doesn't survive this. uber has better math, better

pickup times, higher quality of service. emily: you are a big uber investor. chris: i would be a bigger investor on that service alone. i just don't think lyft are going to compete. this is a win or take all game. and travis will take all. emily: will there be a downturn in a silicon valley? chris: yes. it is inevitable that the funders putting this money to work will not see it all back. emily: are we in a bubble? is the bubble going to pop? chris: there are multiple ways to define that. emily: yes or no? chris: yes, some companies are going to go away. by the year when you can't get a u-haul because they are gone all one way out of town, no, i don't think so because this is the epicenter of innovation, just out of whack right now. emily: what you think is the

biggest problem in silicon valley not being talked about now? chris: there is no one normal here now. all of the normal regular people have been priced out. the artists and musicians can't live here. you don't even need nurses, or doctors frankly, who can't afford this city. that is messed up. i think the biggest problem here is that computer science programs are so lucrative now they don't need to go to college. they never had a jobs, they never waited tables. we have a generation of software engineers working at these companies who have very little compassion. we have an increasingly limited worldview, that is really out of touch with how the rest of the world lives. i would like to see more people get the hell out of here and be around real people every now and then. we don't have anyone here ever present the voice of a normal, and they are not even our neighbors anyone.

emily: chris sacca, thanks so much for joining us. it is been great to have you. chris: right on. ♪

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you can even check your connection status on your phone. now it's easier than ever to manage your account. get started at xfinity.com/myaccount emily: twitter looks for a new ceo. and what wall street expects. i'm emily chang. this is bloomberg west. unhappy read it users flock to a new website after ellen pao ban on harassment groups. and what to expect from the world's most important gaming convention, e 3.