john: i'm john heilemann. mark: and, i'm mark halperin. "with all due respect" to mississippi, if you are having trouble figuring out what to do with your state flag -- there is consensus. >> it belongs in a museum. >> it is time to put it in a museum. >> museum. >> museum. >> it belongs in a museum! ♪ mark: on the show tonight, rand, ransom and arithmetic. but first, rodham, clinton hillary. the democratic presidential hopeful hosted a community meeting at a black church and spoke emotionally about race relations in america and in detail for the first time about

the confederate flag. sen. clinton: despite our best efforts and highest hopes, america's long struggles with race is far from finished. we cannot hide from hard truths about race and justice. we have to name them and own them and change them. that is why i appreciate the actions begun yesterday by the governor and other leaders of south carolina to remove the confederate battle flag from the statehouse. [applause] hillary clinton: recognizing it as a symbol of our nation's racist past that has no place in our present or our future. it should not fly there, it should not fly anywhere. [applause]

mark: even before those strong remarks today, hillary clinton has been getting rave reviews. she was said to be at the forefront about race here. that was the first time she spoke about the flag after nikki haley acted. on these matters, is she a profile in courage or profile in expediency? john: when george pataki was being very clear and saying the flag had to come down yesterday, the clinton campaign was citing things she said back in 2007 because she hadn't made an outright statement. this was very powerful. it was very strong, but she has not been in the forefront on this specific issue. no one doubts her commitment on racial equality, but not on the issue. mark: a lot of people are talking about the flag and how great it was what nikki haley did. clinton is politically handling this well overall and i think

she is speaking from her heart and she does well when she does that. to give her credit speaking about the flag when she would not speak up before is too much. john: there were plenty of people that were saying it had to come down, but she did not. she has not been on the forefront. rand paul has been on vacation. he had not commented on the flag controversy at all until today. had not said a word. in an interview on boston radio, paul joined the chorus. sen. paul: i think the flag is inescapably a symbol of human bondage and slavery. particularly when people use it obviously for murder and to justify hatred so vicious. i think that symbolism needs to

end and south carolina has done the right thing. there have been people that use it for southern pride and heritage. for every african-american in the country, it is a symbol of slavery to them and now it is a symbol of murder. john: rand paul has spoken out for inclusiveness in the party as much as any republican, but he was really the last one to come out with a strong statement. is it a little bit too late? mark: i understand he was on vacation but this was a national tragedy. he could have written a statement. that is about as strong statement anybody has made. i applaud for coming out now. i applaud what he is doing now and his passion, but i think he had to write those paragraphs. john: this is a big deal. it is supposed to be part of his brand. he's supposed to be about a more inclusive republican party.

he's supposed to be reaching out to minority communities. in terms of political consistency, he should have been at the forefront. mark: being behind nikki haley lindsey graham and all those legislators in south carolina, it is all well and good. this is a time of national moment of asking people to step forward and lead and not hide behind states rights. i don't know if he will pay a political price for it, but it shows for a lot of people, this is still an issued that some people is too dangerous to lead on. jeb bush and the issue of education -- strength or weakness? in an op-ed he went on offense focusing on the issue of school choice. jeb put out a video related to

the op-ed touting his own record on that matter. >> governor jeb bush instituted a program in the united states that gives low-income kids in opportunity to go to a private school. >> i don't know where she would have been at today. >> i would not have had the passion for education. he makes a real difference in the lives of kids. mark: not a lot of jeb bush op-eds. why is he taking after hillary clinton now? john: there is a lot to unpack in this issue. the first thing is education is a weakness for him in the republican nomination because of common core. he wants the change the conversation to vouchers. mark: he has been the most conservatively successful educational reformer in the last 25 years. he needs to show people he will go after hillary clinton.

point three is he wants to show voters he cares about education. his brother fought and won on the issue of education. john: who is a riper target of -- than the mayor of new york city? he's seen as almost more socialist than bernie sanders so you get a free shot at deblasio. mark: every republican who wants to be the nominee has to answer the question how to get more women votes than mitt romney got. if you succeed on education, you can get suburban women and other women. john: to give jeb credit, that's a general election message. that is not just a primary message. it is also a general election message. president obama is apparently going to change a policy on

kidnapping abroad. the government will no longer threaten americans for criminal prosecution if they try to pay ransom for family members held hostage. also, obama will say why the government can communicate with captors, there will be no change to the long-standing american policy against making concessions to hostage takers. smart policy change or dangerously dumb? mark: i appreciate the impulse behind this. this is the kind of thing barack obama likes to solve and has been touched by the members of the families who have been taken hostage. i think this is a slippery slope. some aspects of it like keeping the families involved and not threatening with prosecution but it is a slippery slope. it sends a wrong message to terrorists. john: this policy is a policy change in some sense and some it is not.

it is never been really against the rules. there has been confusion about it. nobody really knows what the rules are. i applaud him for clarity. families should know what they are allowed to do or not allowed to do, but they should not go to jail for trying to get one of their family members back. i'm with him on that. mark: the one thing i think is good about this is the president had a full discussion within the government. there were some parts that i think are confusing. this is the thing that was never dealt with in the post-9/11 era. john: they can have conversations, but can they negotiate? the negotiation thing is a little worrying. mark: the mayor of the great city of atlanta after this word from our sponsors. ♪

john: we are here today with the

mayor of atlanta, kasim reed. he is from our atlanta bureau. there has been a lot of discussion about race in america over the course of the last few days, in particular with the south carolina confederate flag. give us a sense of how you felt about it and how you experience d this debate and decision yesterday in your neighboring state. mayor reed: first of all, i think governor haley deserves a great deal of appreciation for the courageous act she made. i know a little bit about it. i was one of the leaders to change the flag in georgia when governor purdue was governor and we put to bed the most controversial part of the flag here. it is going to be a tough process. i think the leaders in south carolina are doing the best right thing. it is time to put the confederate flag to bed in south carolina but it will be very

difficult. i anticipate very emotional debates. john: in south carolina and georgia, there are claims that the confederate flag is a symbol of heritage and not hate. what do you say to people who make that argument? mayor reed: i would say that hate is overwhelming. the fact of the matter is for most people, the confederate flag is a symbol of hate. for the people would think it is a symbol of heritage, there is a place for that in museums across georgia and south carolina. you are able to pay homage to those folks who have appreciation for that flag. the overwhelming feeling in

georgia when we changed our flag, in south carolina and other places is it is a powerful symbol of hate. i think that is why things are moving as they are. that argument simply does not hold muster any more and i think that is being borne out how rapidly this is moving. john: do you think the republican party has an issue with this? if south carolina goes ahead and brings the flag down, that the party, which has obviously rallied in this case, but in the past has been more in favor of the heritage argument, do you think this will be an issue that will be debated and republicans will have to answer for going forward in 2016? mayor reed: i think it will play out on the republican primary side. you are already seeing a difficulty among the candidates coming down on a firm position. their position has been

evolving. i think if they go through the primary process, folks would try to thread the needle. some of them will come out decisively. i think senator graham was on governor haley's side. it is very important, in my opinion, that the republican party be totally committed in this effort. we are going to have several weeks as this plays out. i think the debate in the legislature, if it is anything like we went through in georgia, is going to be a very powerful and passionate debate as both sides mobilize around the issue. i think the republican party has to stand firm on the right side of this as a party. john: yesterday, there was a media hubbub with an interview president obama did in los angeles was released. he used an ugly racial epithet

or invoked it in the context of discussing racism in america. i'm curious whether you understand why the president used the word and what you think about the hubbub and whether you think media organizations are right or wrong to have that word used on the air or should have bleeped it out. mayor reed: i think the president was having a candid moment with the american people. i think it was appropriate for him to use the word in the context he did. what he was doing was drawing attention to the fact that many folks that believe by being polite and not using language such as the language he used that we are making real progress on issues regarding race and class. i thought it was an appropriate use of the word. i thought the response to it certainly coming from president

obama was overblown and we are all well aware a number of american presidents in private have used that word before. i thought the way he was using it was clearly a teaching moment and part of an honest conversation. mark: as a close observer of your party, why is bernie sanders drawing such big crowds and moving up in the polls? mayor reed: i think he is drawing big crowds because he sounds like a populist and he has a very strong record that backs up the things he says. i think everybody wants to give secretary clinton a bit of a workout. the president of the united states is a special and sacred thing. i don't believe that even within the democratic party that folks want there to be a feeling that you are not out there earning it and fighting for it. you want to make secretary earn

clinton earn it. john: yes or no, will george be in play in 2016? mayor reed: yes. john: kasim reed, thank you so much for coming on the show. when we come back, a rapper, an elvis impersonator and attorney general all in one. ♪

>> i rhyme with style, i reign supreme. i'm the rapper connoisseur and vocabulary master. mark: that was in san diego where we met our next guest, sean reyes. thank you for coming. sean reyes: thanks. mark: we hope to get you to rap later. we want to talk some legal stuff with you, attorney general of utah. first on same-sex marriage has been fought in your state.

what do you think the court will decide? sean: it is a difficult decision for the court. most people believe justice kennedy is the swing vote. he gave us a decision in windsor that seemed to reflect that inner conflict he had. will he go back to his more federalist roots and allow states to decide this issue as they have traditionally or will he, as a lot of his language indicated, vote to universally recognized same-sex marriage not just at a federal level, but through all states? all the prognosticators, the experts, seem to think the likelihood is a 5-4 decision one way or another. john: if justice kennedy goes the way some experts think and we end up with national rights of same-sex marriage, do you

have any doubt in your mind that every state must then follow with the supreme court says? there are some people that suggest there are ways states could fight against that. sean: we addressed this in our state and we are ready whatever the decision is to implement the laws the supreme court pronounces. i will say this -- regardless of how it turns out, particularly if they rule against the states, i think the next question will be how do you balance the religious freedoms? our own state has addressed that through legislation within perhaps going against the states. mark: the other big decision is on the affordable care act. your state does not have a state exchange. how do you handicap the court's decisions and what are the implications if they strike down subsidies? sean: i don't want to sound like a lawyer, but these are very

nuanced decisions. the plaintext of the act makes it very difficult for the courts to ignore that they excluded coverage for federal funded exchanges. however, i have a sense that perhaps at the end of the day, the court may find there is some ambiguity, in that, they were cover to also cover exchanges. mark: if you have one side simple language and the other side what appears to be the legislature and the interpretation by the agency does that trump the simple language? sean: by interpretation, it really should not. it should be the plain language that is the first thing you go to. but as you mention, when you factor in the purported intent

along with the interpretation at the agency level, that is why it is making it hard for everyone to determine which way it goes. i believe it is also 5-4. john: let me ask you a question about john roberts. he upset a lot of conservatives who had hopes he would be a true blue or red conservative. what is your view how justice roberts has been? sean: we always hope whoever is on the bench will put aside their own personal feelings to do what they believe is right. i don't want to come here to second-guess chief justice roberts on any particular decision, but that is the hope. can they do it, are the y insulated truly from politics and popular feelings? john: has his jurisprudence been

aligned with what you expected? sean: i think he surprised some people. those on the conservative side thought it was a vote that should have been a roberts vote. many of them are hoping in this case -- i do want to say that he pays them back, but he returns back to where they think he ought to be. he has proven he is his own man and he will make decisions that he believes are in the best interests and true to the constitution. mark: biggest difference between utah and new york city? sean: the biggest difference -- we have mountains that are gigantic and beautiful scenery. mark: we have three card monte. sean: we have some of that, too. utah has a white-collar fraud registry which means i am on

safe ground. mark: sean reyes, attorney general of utah. when we come back, we will have some sort of musical number right after this. ♪

john: our guest sean reyes is an elvis man. he also loves hip-hop. mc ag, what do you got? sean: i'm the devastating, inivating rhyming ag. do not waste your time trying to battle me because i will knock you out. you are frazier, i'm ali. you want my title, best step away. you are feeling lucky? make my day. i'll be standing there smiling and you know i'm legit. and -- that's it.

mark: we will see you tomorrow here at 5:00 p.m. we have bobby jindal, and right after that, a live announcement that he is running for president. bernie sanders is also booked on thursday. thank you. ♪ ♪ ♪ get excited for the 1989 world tour with exclusive behind the scenes footage all of taylor swift's music videos interviews, and more. xfinity is the destination for all things taylor swift.

emily: blackberry ceo john chen says the company is not for sale. he joins me to talk about the company's next act. i'm emily chang and this is "bloomberg west." coming up, snapchat turns head s in the advertising agency. former paypal ceo bill harris is here. what he sees in its future sever from ebay. and tech titans and rivals band together to form coding standards all machines can understand.