>> good morning, you are watching a special edition of "bloomberg market day" live from athens, greece. ain't erik schatzker. --i am erik schatzker. guy: i am guy johnson. erik: it has been quite a week and weekend. voted no toe austerity. they sided with the prime minister and rejected the offer on the table from the europeans. opponentin political stepped down today. a real changing of the guard here. the finance minister also deciding he will depart. erik: in his place will likely be the oxford-educated economist familiar to the european creditors, so perhaps there is room for optimism. let's be clear, very little room for optimism. at this point, it is up to the e.c.b.

if the e.c.b. does not throw a lifeline to the greek ban ks, it is highly unlikely the promise the banks will be open will be met. guy: the markets have reacted fairly calmly. erik: the most surprising result for some. guy: in one way i can understand. as much as you have a changing of the guard, you have the political parties largely positioned for a deal. we have a situation where greece internally is moving in the same direction. maybe that is the reason for it. maybe the fact that varoufakis is gone. i don't know what it is, but they are reacting calmly. erik: this is something i have been waiting to say all day. i do want to point out that thursday and friday there were doomsday predictions about what would happen to financial markets in the event of a no vote in greece. the no vote was far more decisive than anyone could have

imagined. and yet the damage from a market standpoint is even more contained than anybody might have imagined. guy: we saw the euro-dollar gap lower this morning. we have pulled back up. equity markets taking it incredibly well. erik: we have seen u.s. equity trading recover. losses in u.s. equities have narrowed to the point where it is a most flat for the day. there was an initial bid for treasuries. that has backed off. we have seen prices drop. the yields have crept back to where they were earlier in the day. guy: last monday, you saw equity markets falling out of bed. today, completely different. are we getting immune to this? is it the fact we have been talking about this for so long that people are getting the idea that t we will roll forward? erik: i think you're onto something. clearly, there is an opportunity

for this government to extend an olive branch to european creditors. will they do it and how will creditors respond? let's take you to brussels where caroline has been covering the reaction from europe. from what we can tell in athens, it is a hard-line result to the referendum. caroline: it is a very hard-line indeed. all the eurozone leaders are disappointed with the results. they warned before the referendum the no vote would make it more complicated for greece to get a third bailout package. they were waiting for concrete proposals from alexis tsipras tomorrow in brussels before they can sign any kind of deal during the emergency summit taking place tomorrow in brussels. we heard from various officials including the european whoiament and president said a no vote does not necessarily mean a better deal for greece. we also spoke this afternoon in

brussels to the e.u. commissioner in charge of your policy. here is what he told us earlier. >> first is what happens in greece, how do we set a new greek program in place. second is to prevent crisis from spreading to ensure financial stability and on this, we have all the necessary tools and determination of authorities to ensure financial stability. carolynine: we have the tools ad determination. that is what the e.u. commissioner told bloomberg earlier. needs a the commission clear date. that becomes a political matter. that will be decided in brussels tomorrow. politicalouble is

trust between greece and creditors has been broken. any result tomorrow will depend on how quickly this political trust can be revealed. erik: thank you so much. there are two fronts in this battle. it is greece versus the european leaders, happening in brussels. and greece versus the e.c.b. in frankfurt. story.at is a big mario draghi has been invited to the meeting tomorrow. he is looking for political cover. if you is going to make a big decision on the fund, he's going to need merkel next him making sure that is ok. erik: that is a question i would love to post to bill gross of janus capital. hese miniature -- manager -- is manager of the unconstrained bond fund with us from newport beach, california. we may have a delay, but let's work with it. i want to start on the point about mario draghi.

if you happen to be the president of the european central bank, how willing would you be to throw more liquidity at the greek banking system? throwing more liquidity at the greek banking system is problematic. everyone billion of euros -- every billion of euros they throw at the greek banks ultimately has to be written off. they have produced a $100 billion program that they owe to themselves. the funds have been withdrawn and turned into euros on the part of the private sector. the e.c.b. is stuck with the cap. draghi suggested he does not want to be political. yet he is the central banker for the eurozone. greece is still within the eurozone. a diplomatic, problematic, legalistic potential situation

that is not easy to forecast. draghi doesest if not provide additional funds and pay the 3does not billion euro debt on july 20 or 21, there is going to be significant problems within the system. do you think a haircut on depositors or a full-scale failing -- bail in his inevitable at this point? bill: that was the situation. .reece is a bigger country the problem becomes if it happens in cyprus and greece, why can't it happen in spain, italy, portugal, and other peripheral countries? beginsght for liquidity

in peripheral countries if there is another bail in. i don't think that is the proper solution. but it is certainly a possibility as evidenced are the cyprus -- by the cyprus situation. guy: it is guy. we were told it would be doom and gloom if we got a no vote. yet the market reaction is stunningly calm. are you surprised by that? bill: i am surprised. saturday was fireworks day in the united states. it appears we are in the eye of the hurricane. i do not believe this situation is calm. it comes down over the next three weeks as to whether the greek debt and standoff, whether the greeks want a significant restructure of their debt. the troika does not. the troika believes a write-off is primarily government and

supernaturally owned debt. they believe that will set a precedent for peripherals. i am on the side of the greeks. the germans are being disingenuous with their portion of the debt because they have had massive restructuring of their own debt after world war i and world war ii when an accord in the 1950's reduced their debt from 120% of g.d.p.. which theyexample claim should not be applied to the greeks has been their historical experience over the past 100 years. to that point, germany has shown a willingness to undertake a marshall plan-like solution for the situation the greeks confront. if that continues to be the case, the focus will shift to draghi there. there is much expectation it

will test his resolve to backstop the rest of peripheral europe. does that create trading opportunities? bill: i think it does. i think that is what we are seeing this morning with the hurricane i suggested, and the eye of the hurricane. you are support behind the scenes on the part of the e.c.b. you are seeing massive support by the chinese in terms of their stock market. andare seeing central governments throwing everything they can at the markets and keeping them calm. draghi has to wonder whether the purchase of spanish and italian debt leads to the same conclusion down the road as perhaps what is beginning with the greek example. owned over 100 billion euros by the greek aches which appear to be insolvent. continue the they program for peripherals, perhaps down the road, you have the same situation. risk in termss at

of their arrangement with a central bank that at some point has been unwilling to extend ofitional credits to one their member countries, mainly greece. bill, i have to jump on your point about chinese stocks. talkingyou tweeted about a potential short. at that point, you said not yet. did you end up short in chinese stocks? did you get in and time to enjoy the dramatic breathtaking declines in volatility since then? bill: i did go public and say short the chinese stock market through a barron's recommendation that became public about four weeks ago. i am on record as having reached that point in terms of the chinese stock market. where we go from here since the market is down 25% from that

point is hard to say. like i say, the chinese authorities through increased margin and regulation, lower interest rates, it has been a massive support program for their stock market which supposedly the world thinks is relatively insignificant. but i think it is important. i'm rather proud of that call, although i said not yet during the tweet. but two weeks later, i said now is the time. one final question about greece. how long can you run an economy like this without a functioning banking system? bill: i don't think you can. that is why i think they have a week or two to settle this. the arrangement has to be coordinated with the e.c.b. and e.u., within the eurozone. zone way of thinking, the as led by the germans have to come to some agreement in terms

of restructuring versus a write-off. to the extent there is not a write-off, european banks and other institutions are safe from the standpoint of keeping their debt to the greeks and institutions on the books. to the extent there is a restructuring that favors them to the extent there is a write-off that is not, i think greece will want a write-off. i think the germans and the e.u. will want restructuring. but it has to be done within the next two weeks. july 21 is a key date. if the greeks do not meet the 3 billion euro payment at that point, the $100 billion worth of --ds extended to greet ranks greek banks will have to be declared in default because they cannot lend on collateral. erik: before we go, it's a

a grexit your best case scenario for the country right now? bill: i think it is. it depends on whether the germans are willing to concede perhaps austerity to the extent they have enforced it increase, and to the extent restructuring or debt write-offs are in his the in -- a necessity in the next few weeks, it is a german led decision. they suggested it is in the greek hands. but i think it is in the german hands. to the extent the germans are unwilling to come off of their position and extend their marginal line, i think a grexit is a 70-80% probability. erik: it is amazing how distance can provide clarity to a situation like this. thank you so much. that is bill gross, manager of

constrainedobal and fund -- global unconstrained fund by remote. when we return, we will have more of our special report from greece. stay with us. ♪

julie: welcome back to "bloomberg market day." i am julie hyman with a check on the markets. look at the major averages. we have come up off the lows of the session. the s&p briefly turned green and then went south.

all major averages down about .3% as we have been watching reaction or lack of reaction to what has been going on in greece. not true of the equities that most closely track what is going on in greek. we are talking about the grek. earlier, it was down 10%. this is the closest proxy investors have to treat greece, even as the great markets remain closed. the national bank of greece trades in the united states. that is down 13% as there are questions about the ongoing banks asy of greek r they remain closed and don't get the european lending mechanism. now i am to send it over to eric schatzker in athens. erik: thank you, julie. ofm here with the president consulting any border -- and a

former board member of the i.m.f. varoufakis resigned this morning. it does look like he will become his successor. does that make it more likely greece is going to be able to reach a deal with european creditors? >> yes, i believe european leaders and officials are relieved mr. varoufakis will no longer be representing greece at the meetings. i don't think they have a kosher relationship. we see how it goes now. for sure, things are tougher because we are dealing with a whole new ballgame. we are talking about a new program rather than the extension of an old program. erik: why does that make it harder to come to a deal? referendumome of the is relevant -- irrelevant in the

sense that greece faces the same options today as yesterday. either reform and put its public finances in order or leave the eurozone. erik: what was the point of holding the referendum in the first place? >> i have wondered myself. now the logistics have become more complicated because the german parliament has to give a mandate to the german government to start negotiations with greece. erik: because a new bailout is involved as opposed to extension of the old one? >> yes, and because we are dealing with the european stability mechanism. not its predecessor, the stability fund. in the meantime, today the german parliament went into recess, summer recess, so mrs. merkel would need to recall everybody so they meet and get a mandate to the german government to commence negotiations. erik: you are a former board member with the i.m.f.

the last time we spoke was before the release of the draft i.m.f. report on the debt sustainability of this country, a report that concluded that at the very least 36 billion euros would be required over the next three years just to stabilize this economy. what was the motive behind releasing that report in the dying hours of the opportunity to come to a deal before the referendum? >> i think the i.m.f. has been saying for a very long time that debt relief would be needed for greece most probably. now, i guess they wanted to make it public that we are in a dire situation. we are in a double dip recession. banks are closed. there's a credit crunch. of course, now there are bigger needs for debt relief than a year ago. erik: it sets up a contest between christine lagarde and angela merkel. does it not?

>> in a sense, yes. but i am sure the talk behind -- they have talked behind closed doors many times about this issue. the fund is saying if greece implements the program on the table a week ago with primary surpluses reaching 3.5% of they can getally, maturity extensions and interest-rate reductions. that would make the debt sustainable. if the primary surpluses are lower, they would need a haircut. erik: a haircut is a prospect nobody wants to confront. miranda, thank you so much. she is a former board member at the i.m.f. with me in greece. we are taking a short break. our special report from greece is coming up. ♪

>> we are out of time.

if things continue as they are at the moment, i cannot see how we will last a week or so. without money, everything has been cut off. we are being cut off from all sorts of financing. was the managing director of a athenian marble talking with me earlier. he runs a business in greece, business. his claims are around the world, pre-much everywhere. you just heard him say that if the bank holidays extended beyond the deadline tomorrow, he has about a week before he has to pack up his business. they are doing nothing right now. guy: they cannot pay their staff. credit approval is a most impossible. basically, you cannot run a functioning business. a week you can maybe live with. your shuts down for this -- europe shuts down for the summer. but you do this for longer, and

it starts to hurt. his misses are going to suffer. businesses are going to suffer. erik: it is a microcosm of the greek economy. even if there is tourism, if you cannot import things, you cannot feed tourists. most of greece's food is important. supermarkets are talking about may be needing extra security from police. we may see limits to how much people can take out of the supermarkets as well as the banks. mr. tsakalotos being concerned -- confirmed as finance minister, so a real changing of the guard. erik: a special report from athens. guy and i return momentarily. ♪

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with what conclusion we are trying to find out. breaking news moments ago. we found out euclid tsakalotos, who is now the chief economic spokesman for the government, will become the new finance sworn in later today replacing yanis varoufakis who resigned this morning. let's bring you up to speed on other news around the globe. pimm fox is in new york city. m: service industries in the united states bounced back in june. ew lastnd orders grou month. service industries are fueling expansion slowed by weakness in capital investment and overseas markets. later today, we are going to hear from president obama on the fight against islamic state. president is making a rare trip to the pentagon to get an update. he is expected to hold a news conference afterwards. over the weekend, the u.s. led coalition launched more than three dozen air raids against

islamic state targets. warren buffett who helped combine it with kraft foods this ofr, his reward is a stake $24 billion. this is going to begin trading today. berkshire hathaway invested about $9.5 billion. amazon.com is getting ready for its 20th birthday. the company is introducing prime day with discounts in nine countries for u.s. prime members. the deals will begin at midnight on july 15. there will be updates as often as every 10 minutes, and amazon is hoping this will be the black friday shopping event of the summer season. those are your top stories of the morning. to erik schatzker and guy johnson in essence -- athens. erik: you have heard us talking all day about the market reaction to the greek no vote. there was an initial movement, but many of those moves have

retraced and now we see the euro trading north. it is a surprise to many. mark barton is in london where european markets are closing. million of value was like after the biggest weekly follow of the year last week when 3.4% came off, equivalent to 350 billion euros. in italy, it fell by 5.2%, the biggest line in four years. a bit of déjà vu. j.p. morgan chase cutting its rating on european stocks to a hold. it says it does not expect a selloff of 2010 when greece received his first bail out. the stock tumbled as much as 15% in less than six weeks. here are three of the big decliners. it was the banks that led the decline.

look at italy. the lowest price ever for the italian bank. it has greater exposure to italy's sovereign debt than competitors. rolls-royce cutting its profit guidance and holding a share buyback reserve cash. lendertuguese lindner -- another example of dropping on fear a grexit could hurt local bonds. angela merkel is traveling to paris to meet with monsieur hollande. mark martinyou, with the latest on european financial markets closing now. i'm back in athens with guy johnson. standing beside me is the former deputy prime minister, now chairman of capital partners and the investment banking firm in greece. you have also been a deputy

foreign minister. explain what yesterday's results means for the country. >> i voted yes, but i am pleased with the final outcome. gives our prime minister the strength and self-confidence and full responsibility to strike a deal. today, we had the unprecedented move of all the heads of political parties in greece sitting at the presidential office and expressing support to the prime minister, with the exception of the commonest party whose response was very mild. i think it is a day where all investors are thinking long greece. the fact mr. varoufakis, only hours after his victory, says something. the fact he came to the greek public and said i don't have a mandate for a rupture with

europe. mr.: what if he sacked varoufakis because he wants to take a harder line approach? >> no, it is very clear he wants a deal. being more hardline would not produce a deal. the problem now is the economy has shrunk in the meantime, so the distance he has to travel is even worse. he has the banks closed for about eight days now, which is very hard on the economy. and he is facing a possible haircut of deposits. something our european allies, despite frustration, should try to avoid because a haircut would strike at the heart of the middle class, which is the most from the class for europe. erik: if you are correct and he is contemplating a haircut to save the banking system, why hasn't he said that to the greek able? >> because it is virtually anathema. you don't want somebody will take out deposits.

i think he has to try to make a deal with european central bank and ms. merkel because she effectively runs europe, and say let's not have a haircut. it would destroy the greek middle-class. it would destroy business. avoidvery important to and minimize any haircut. it would be very destructive for the economy and growth prospects. erik: i can't think of a single person who would dispute the notion mr. tsipras once a deal. the question is on what terms. he has had five months and failed. why should you be more confident the europeans are willing to reach a deal on his terms than they were 10 days ago? >> i think they should not allow greece to go down the drain. greece has become a trysi-dysfunctional coun today. it is cheaper to help it now than try to salvage the remains of complete devastation.

it is clear now he wants a deal. he tried other venues. it did not work. i think he is learning on the job. he will learn how to speak decent english within a year. i think he is trying hard. let's give him some credit. maybe we will fail, but i think it is a good bet he is honest about striking a deal. erik: how much time does he have? >> maybe two or three weeks max because he has to make payments. he has to pay salaries. he has to pay pensions. he has to make e.c.b. payments so he has a mountain of problems ahead of him. let's give him a chance. the opposition parties will also help him. erik: what if he fails? what if the beginning of august he has not managed to reach a deal with the european creditors? the greek banking system remains closed and he cannot pay pensioners. what happens then?

>> people will start getting very upset with him. he will not be able to govern and manage the company -- country. he will have to go for a new round of elections. the still popular. people like him. he is still popular. i think we have to put our money here today. what if that is the bet madame merkel and mario draghi would rather take? they would rather force elections and bring somebody they consider more reasonable to the negotiating table? >> it will be chaos. he is now the most reasonable bet we have on the table. i know there have been a lot of accusations and ill feelings in the past five months. i think it is time to try to reach an agreement. i think he is sincere. what happened today with the greek army leaders shows the sincerity. the sacking of mr. varoufakis

shows sincerity. people don't change overnight. but i think our best bet is to help him rather than undermine him. another election today, he would win it. erik: your certain mr. varoufakis was sacked and did not resign of his own accord? >> absolutely. no doubt about it. his father came out and made bad remarks about how he was sacked, so it is definitely a sacking. it was on the request of the europeans. apically, you don't sack minister because europeans don't want to talk to him. he did it. he can be bold. i am not a believer in him, but i will try to support him. i would go along greece. tell our friends to come and visit us and help us. erik: he is the former deputy finance minister, first

optimistic voice i have heard today. we are taking a quick break. special report returns in a few short moments. ♪

erik: welcome back. you are watching our special report live from greece. greeks resoundingly rejecting austerity in a referendum this weekend. we are following the fallout. guy: it has been limited. everybody was expecting financial markets and euro-dollar to see big moves. strategist joins us now. let's talk about market reaction.

people were thinking we could see the euro-dollar fall out of bed. it has not done that. we got below $1.10 but have popped back up. give us your thoughts. surprised am somewhat by the very muted reaction in the euro-dollar. that, our research has shown over the past six months the direction of the euro-dollar has been virtually unaffected by what has been happening in greek spreads. at the same time, what is interesting is if you look at the intraday price action today, you will see it is very much similar to the one we have had a week ago. shows thecally downside in the euro-dollar in the asia opening and a gradual normalization. last monday, the euro-dollar managed to end the day higher compared to the friday close.

shows the market is taking a view that the greek situation irrespective of what happens down the road with them is not really an issue of contagion and therefore an issue with currency. at $1.10 a you say grexit is already priced into the euro. >> i think it is difficult to judge. classesook at the asset it greek spreads, admittedly is a less liquid market than five years ago, you will see there was a market -- movement of 300 basis points upwards. at the same time, apart from the euro-dollar, you have had a muted reaction in peripheral spreads. they have moved 15 points higher

which is basically nothing. perspective action and if i step back from the short end volatility and swings on a daily basis, i have to say i still think the euro is going to go higher from here. guy: ok. therefore, you're not expecting mario draghi to do much? dowe anticipated we will -- we anticipate we will see more qe and management? relate what is happening in the bond markets in europe and what is happening with euro-dollar. >> you mentioned whether marion draghi is going to potentially step up qe. i don't think these guys are over andto do anything above what they have already planned to do so far. at the end of the day, let's be realistic. were 120. spreads

120 basis points eight days ago. now they are 155 which i said is pretty much in the price. relation between nominal and real interest rate of rancho and what is happening in the euro-dollar, i would say the class of models would predict the euro-dollar quite ,igher than it currently trades closer to the $1.15 level. i think overall, we have started in deals which will allow us to extend higher pricing in the building of confidence in the eurozone. which has pushed euro-dollar higher. at the same time, if you look at the flipside, he will see too much -- you will see too much

was already in the price of the dollar. erik: we have to leave it there. thank you very much. he is the chief foreign-exchange liveegist at unicredit with us in athens. we will take a quick break and be back from greece. stay with us. ♪

erik: you are watching a special report from greece. i am erik schatzker with guy johnson, and also matt campbell. you are here because you could select this -- euclid tsakalotos has been named as the replacement for yanis varoufakis. i want you to tell me more about mr. tsakalotos. how is he going to be different from varoufakis who was perhaps a lightning rod for europeans? what we probably have from euclid tsakalotos is more of a

change in style than of substance. he is a very buttoned-down, low-key guy in his personality. varoufakis did not get down with european partners. in terms of his politics and ideology, tsakalotos is cut from the same cloth. he is a stalwart member of the left-wing ruling party in greece. this is a change in tone rather than a change in the substance behind it. erik: does the fact he is an oxford man count for anything with european creditors? matt: it is ironic he has pre-much the same educational biography of george osborne, who is someone he probably agrees with little. yes, he has plenty in common with some of the people he will deal with. then again, so did varoufakis. varoufakis is an australian citizen employed by the university of texas. there is a degree of cultural overlap. at the end of the day, syriza

and its leaders are very left wing. that will produce problems with the germans and others. erik: clearly, we have much more to learn about mr. tsakalotos. he will be sworn in by the prime minister. matt campbell, thank you. weisenthal is in the field in athens. you have been trying to gauge the mood of the people the day after the 61% resounding no to austerity. what have you picked up? joe: it is funny. this was the scene of a extraordinary party like atlas here -- atmosphere. today, the is more calm. you would never know there was a scene like that. there are still people hanging out and with flags, but it does not resemble that at all. if you walk around central athens, i don't think you would feel you are in a country where the banking system is defunct. in this area, people are in the

coffee shops. erik: i hear people behind you. there are people who have said greece is on its way --people including mohamed el-erian -- who have said greece is on its way to being a failed state. this is a country whose g.d.p. has contracted by a quarter. do you get any sense from greeks they see this as a possibility? if they do, how do they feel about it? joe: i do think people are concerned. i talked to people prior to the vote. there was a sense of dread in terms of what could happen following the vote. what wouldst as if happen to the banking system was a more important discussion than the vote itself. concerns about the banks. >> [shouting in the background] to takee, i'm going

this opportunity to say goodbye to you and greece. i have been here for eight incredible days with history in the making. i'm on my way back to new york city. i'm going to leave it in your hands in greece. i'm erik schatzker. you have been watching a special report live from athens. julie hyman is going to take it for options inside. julie: a little calmer in our new york bureau. hopefully, joe is all right. let's look at how the major averages are performing right now. we has to them, off the lows of the session. all three down about .25%. let's talk about the options market. joining us is kevin kelly. kevin, thank you so much. drama in greece, even as we watch joe weisenthal. i want to get straight to your trade because it has to do with what is going on in europe and the fxe, the e.t.f. that

tracks the euro. this physically holds euros, which is interesting given what we usually see. kevin: correct. there's drama on the streets of greece, but it is not happening in the euro. have seen that today, which is great news because of it -- because that is helping to call the markets. we did not see a big drop. e.t.f.'sne of the main that tracks it. the way to trade this is to buy calls. it is at a one-month low, but off the lows for the year, the euro is. bottomed when- it quantitative easing started with the e.c.b. now you can get exposure to the euro in a cheap way through options. go out and buy the 108 call. it costs about 200 250, and you can have exposure to august 31.

the thesis behind this is there are natural buyers for the euro. bank, the swiss national the bankers for the world. they came in last week and supported the euro and decided to tell the world we are buying it and helping to support it. economic numbers in europe are doing great. spain's industrial production beat forecasts. the same with germany this morning. julie: let me ask about the e.c.b. that would be the wildcard. more stimulus in theory would put pressure on the euro. what is your downside? then: you can only lose two dollars or $2.50 a put up to buy the call. the dollar does well. you are only out $2 by mccall. that is the great part. it is cheap. you can get exposure if the euro should advance. everybody wants the euro to advance.

companies want that because they don't want a stronger dollar to impact earnings. julie: we have about 30 seconds. i want to mention what has happened in the vix. last week, we saw the biggest one-day increase in two years. today a more muted gain of about 4%. this volatility back? --is volatility back? kevin: the biggest day into yo -- in two years should not cause alarm. we will stay in this range. would are below historic averages of 20 -- we are below historic averages. of. 20 17 and 18 looks like we are ok. julie: kevin kelly, we appreciate it. stay with us. more "bloomberg market day" coming up. ♪

juliepimm: good day. betty: welcome to the bloomberg market day. after winning yesterday's

referendum, the pressure is on. can they come up with a plan to keep greece in the eurozone? pimm: investors in china shrugging off the government's latest attempt to increase stock prices. betty: rory mcilroy with a serious injury. how has being out of the british open what impact has sponsor ,nike. pimm: good afternoon, i am pimm fox. betty: i am betty liu. you can see equity markets are lower but remember we were much lower earlier. there was the knee-jerk selling reaction and now we're making up some of those losses.