tv Bloomberg Surveillance Bloomberg July 28, 2015 6:00am-8:01am EDT
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regulators look to "prevent systemic risk" and china. and the failure of american retirement policy. here is a tip -- save more. good morning, everyone. this is "bloomberg surveillance ." it is tuesday, july 28. i am tom keene with vonnie quinn and brendan greeley. an important bloomberg story on donald trump, that he may not be worth $10 billion. it is viral on twitter. brendan: i value my brand at $3 billion. i value my brand. tom: there is a distinction. the intangible value of donald trump. you can see it out with bloomberg politics on twitter, a very careful accounting of what mr. trump is -- i think that is in our top headlines. here's vonnie quinn. vonnie: we started china. they ended with stocks extending
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their losses. the shenzhen composite fell more than 2%. earlier this month, china plus government took unprecedented steps to bolster its stock. in greece, the latest talks on a bailout have begun this morning with the disagreement. prime minister alexis tsipras says lawmakers have approved austerity measures, the creditors disagree. they say more reforms are necessary before greece can get any of the $95 billion worth of aid. donald trump is worth $2.9 billion. the celebrity presidential candidate has said he is worth more than $10 billion. the bloomberg billionaires index shows that the majority of his fortune comes from real estate holdings.
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bp has reported his slowest quarterly profit in at least 10 years. the british energy company has been hurt by the end of the boom in trading. the conflict in libya forced bp to write down almost as hundred billion dollars. brent oil is 20% below its peak in may. the newest book from dr. seuss has hit stores today. "what cap should i get?" is the first book released by him in 25 years since he died in 1991. it was rediscovered in 2013. tom: there it is, dr. seuss out with -- i am not even going to talk to vonnie about that. dupont earnings out to get my attention with an accelerated
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share buyback. let's go to the data check right now. equities bonds, currencies commodities rebound of 12. tony dwyer joining us in the next hour on the equity markets. crude is stunning -- 47 up .08. on to the second board, if you would. brent crude, 52.87. we are not near a 49 handle on brent, and that is a big deal. the brazilian real weaker. here is russian ruble contained, measured, a little bit of depreciation. up we go with this painful single spike. at the 70 level, and we are up again. brendan: it was assumed they
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would move. that rebalancing. that has not happened yet. tom: sanctions matters here. it is an oil economy. they were banning something from the netherlands. brendan: sections on russia do not matter so much on russia's counter sanctions on everybody else. tom: wrubel 60, down 10,000. oil is a big story, but we need to look at the continued carnage in china. all in china wait for the next step by government authorities to staunch declines in the equities markets. not a plunge today,. tom, when will we see the chinese government act? >> i think we already saw action last night. the main reason for the drop in
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the market yesterday -- one of the main reasons -- was concerned from investors that the government was going to exit prematurely from extraordinary measures to stabilize the market. that is what we saw shanghai down 8.5%. yesterday china made a statement denying those rumors. i think that was enough to put a bit of a floor under the market today. brendan: is there any risk with the fallout that the chinese government is going to have to concede that it cannot make its 7% growth target? >> one of the big concerns for china plus government, one of the reasons they have been so aggressive, is the concern that this will start spilling over into the real economy. the high equity valuations that boosted spending at the shops.
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they boosted for china plus equity brokers, which had a direct positive impact on gdp. we are seeing the markets spinning into reverse in the second half of the year. all those positive impact are going to take -- are going to turn to negative impacts. tom: tom orlik, thank you so much. greatly appreciated, bloomberg television's -- bloomberg television -- bloomberg intelligence in china today. neil joins us this morning and harry challenger at bnp paribas. what is different about the decline of oil this time versus what we saw in february and march? harry: the difference
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this time is in the supply segment. earlier decline in january-february was a reaction to opec maintaining production point at the levels they were producing. this time around they are focusing on u.s. supply, and the fact that it is not declining despite the huge decline in count that we had. it is a question of how much oil we have and where is it. that is with the market is focused here in -- where the market is focused. brendan: is it a natural floor, the rebound? harry: 50 will be difficult to break on the downside. brent is looking at the global factors, large increases that in iraq are shifting the imbalance. people are worried about the return of a ram that will not happen until next year. saudi production is at an all-time high, and iraq is
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increasing and boosting its production. tom: what will russia do? we saw the panic and 70, and i am not saying they should panic right now, but the vector here is should russia truly panic in march? do you sense that they will act again? harry: there is not much russia could do. back in november of last year they tried to talk with opec, and clearly they would continue producing. they can rebound the market and extend the time. relative to oil prices, russia could only be -- tom: thank you so much. neil, i want to rip up the script, but let's stay on oil for one second. what did you learn about the responsiveness or elasticity of how americans enjoyed oil prices being lower this time around?
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can we responded do more consumption? neil: you saw a pretty dramatic cut in mining capital investment across u.s. firms pretty quickly after the initial drop in oil prices back in june. the consumer response is a bit more difficult to model, but i would say for those that have said that in sumer's literally spend the windfall, the savings rate is not higher today than it was last year. it is the same, which means that people basically spent one of her windfall a guy. disposable income and consumer spending running right on top of each other. tom: we have something going on this morning vonnie which is the new whisper in terminal value. i missed this. it is my fault. i screwed this up. dupont cutting their dividend, back to 1904.
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vonnie: not only that, but they missed on the top and bottom line. second quarter operating at $1.18 versus $1.21. tom: it is one of the whispers in the continuum of three years or four years. remember that morning when dupont cut the dividend? is this what we have in store with a lower nominal gdp, lower terminal value? will we see blue-chip stocks lower their dividend? neil: in terms of -- i am not a believer in secular stagnation. certain companies are going to come under pressure as the unwinding of the commodities super cycle continues, and we will reestablish a lot of the relationship that existed before , such as in the 90's when you had a inverse relationship between copper and oil. brendan: i love this, the
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difference between neil duut tta and tom keene. tom: they have the noise of the spinoff here. there is some m&a noise here. i do not want to be draconian, but -- you wonder -- brendan, i go back to rip up the script further, the brazilian real to the mexican peso. it heats things up. neil: there is a three-day heatwave in new york. brendan: i wish i could quote the exact person who said that you know you are in trouble when your approval rating is lower than the inflation rate. tom: in brazil are these are little whispers. quickly, do you link emerging-market angst back to your optimism on the american economy, or is it removes? neil:
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you cannot operate in a vacuum but the question is whether these downside risks are able to meaningfully alter the underlining trends in the economy. i don't see that. we have been talking about global firecrackers going off for the better part of the last year, and there is -- we have 280,000 jobs a month going into this, and now we are at 215,000? that is not a big deal. tom: neil dutta. how about a twitter question. what is your oil called now? what do you do with oil now that we have seen it further south, at 52.77. gold a little soggy this morning as well. stay with us. from new york city, this is "bloomberg surveillance." ♪
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tom: good morning, everyone. "bloomberg surveillance." let's get to top headlines this morning. here is vonnie. vonnie: in a few minutes, president obama will become the first sitting president to address the african union. it is the last stop in a five-day two-nation african visit. there's likely to be a changing of the guard at procter & gamble. bloomberg news reports png -- that he may announce his retirement this week. he has served two terms as ceo. more than 1000 experts in science and technology are warning that kill the could
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threaten humanity. a leader from the future of light institute says homicidal machines like hollywood's "terminator" could become very real. among those signing the letters, stephen hawking, elon musk, and steve wozniak. [brendan yawns] brendan: are you going to do that to me vonnie? we have to turn from killer robots to pharma. exit celebrex, enter e brands. pfizer reports at 7:00 this morning. merck does, too. we are not going to talk about killer robots. we are going to talk about
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looking at pfizer. are we looking at allergan, what is left of that business? does pfizer want botox? >> that is a very interesting idea but i think for pfizer the bigger priority is getting more r&d and deeper in the pipeline more along the development stage. pfizer is preparing to potentially split the company in two. they added high spirit, and that business is large. they need to add on to the innovative part of the business and add more growth, find more compounds to come to market. allergan is an interesting idea, but i do not think it is quite what they are looking for right now. vonnie: will they be able to make it up on -- cynthia: this is i think the first full quarter of -- it is
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going to be a popular drug for breast cancer. they are doing a collaboration with merck. they are behind the curve in oncology, but they know that and they are pretty aggressive. tom: a million use ago people talked about them for financial return. what is the level of panic over their financial performance particularly at pfizer, which is a relative underperformer? cynthia: i think there is a common sense that pfizer does not have the pipeline the common pipeline that they used to. i do not know if that is substantially fair. tom: what is the financial sweat anthera pharmaceuticals? i do not see it. -- what is the financial sweat at the pharmaceuticals?
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i do not see it. bloomberg.com i think -- cynthia: i think everyone thinks they are going to buy the growth. vonnie: what about merck? cynthia: merck has another oncology product. investors are waiting to see how that will work as well. there is a lot of attention on what happens with their oncology franchise. that is a big growth driver for oncology and merck as well. there are big developments coming up with their hepatitis c product. tom: thank you so much. cynthia koons at bloomberg this morning. in the next hour, we look at the equity markets, some of the challenges. one of the new things is the dividend cut at dupont as well. anthony dwyer will join us as well. he is looking for a pullback to find crude acquiring shares this morning.
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tom: good morning, everyone. "bloomberg surveillance." tom keene, brendan greeley and vonnie quinn with me today. this is mark gilbert with his greatest spirits off our london desk. "where is europe's jpmorgan?" i thought this was brilliant. the regional banks in asia and europe are just different. tom: this is a brilliant op-ed
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about the culture linking banking with politics. tom:how is deutsche bank perceived in germany? did you have a checking account with them? brendan: i did, actually. i think my checking account with deutsche bank is still in arrears. at my old address, evidently blue warning envelopes kept arriving until they stopped arriving. somewhere there is a file on me at deutsche bank. to your point, it is a national champion and it was supposed to be germany's international champion. that did not work out. tom: neil dutta is with us this morning. you work at the major banks here . some in washington would say they are too big, but are they big enough to compete with a big european bank? neil: i would
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think so. the u.s., we have the most liquid, the deepest capital markets in the world. those are backed up by major institutions, and i think we can have reasonable debate about whether they are too big or not, but they provide a very important role in the functioning of the financial markets. brendan: there was a piece that looked at the euro bond market how it is becoming more liquid with qe. is it a more qe-based development, or is it long-term that the financial markets could become more important? neil: that is going to be the case. one of the benefits of what happened recently is that it actually creates some space in europe for further fiscal integration, further banking rate integration, and as that happens, you will have more dispersion in the financial markets. will that the throne the u.s. in terms of its preeminence? i do not think in any of our
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lifetimes. brendan: i like that neil dutta says further fiscal and banking integration, as if that is a thing that just could happen. neil: but europe is a process. brendan: greece and its creditors head back to the negotiating table. the process is not double dash is not over. the latest cycle of talks next, when hans nichols returns from vacation. this is "bloomberg surveillance" on bloomberg television. good morning. ♪
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for equities. the shenzhen composite fell more than 2%, one day after a route wiped out 600 million dollars -- $600 billion in market value. earlier this month, the chinese government took unprecedented steps to prop up stock. secretary of state john kerry returns to capitol hill today to testify before house committee. the secretaries of treasury and housing department will join him. lawmakers could approve or reject it. president obama says he will veto a rejection. new york has decided not to fix laguardia airport, considered to be one of the worst. instead, it will be torn down and rebuilt with help from delta airlines. a $4 billion terminal will reopen to the public in 2019. vice president joe biden once compared the airport to an airport in the third world.
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joseph biden: this will pull money off the sidelines to invest in a virtuous cycle of more efficiency more productivity, and more good middle-class jobs. vonnie: laguardia's main terminal was built more than 50 years ago. vw edged out toyota in the first six months of the year. the copy sold just more than 5 million vehicles. vw benefited from stronger demand in europe, helping to offset the slowdown in its biggest market, china. and a first for the nfl, a female coach. jen welker is joining arizona's staff for training camp and the preseason. she was the first woman other than kickers to play in a men's pro league.
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tom: interesting. brendan: i love that. tom: let's turn to greece right now. one thing is certain -- all of us were worn out by the endless acreage over greece -- the endless bickering over greece. it is relatively quiet. "surveillance" has not spoken to hans nichols in weeks. i say we need to give him some love her and hans nichols returns. define troika for me. we talk about troika. who are they echo are they organize? hans: the old troika was the european central bank, the international monetary fund, and the eu. the new term -- i will bungle this -- it is a chariot driven by the chariot -- it is a chariot driven by a goddess.
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tom: is it a pleasant discussion? how are the greeted at the athens airport? hans: not well. they may get to the airport fine but it is a question of which hotel they are staying at. that kind of bickering delayed the start of the talks. the troika officials wanted to stay closer to the hotel. there is a fair amount of tension. brendan: let me get this right. they are arguing about where to stay but i am glad you are back because there is also a substantive disagreement as well. hans: it is how much access they will have to the finance ministries, how much will they get access to labor. will they get access to health? they need the numbers to come up with something and they will have the numbers. the bigger one is who gets the points. does greece get to keep the points? brendan: i want to go to
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something that of course, yanis varoufakis is still with us, and op-ed this morning. he had a big plan that was leaked. the idea was to allow to that allow multi-cancellations of arrears between the state of the private sector using an existing web-based payment platform suddenly and a comment like greece's would acquire degrees of freedom. everybody gets liquidity. my question is, is he the most entertaining finance minister ever, and why can't europe let him go? cons: they will not let him go because he keeps cropping up. this time hedge fund managers release the details of this parallel currency liquidity plan. there are many remarkable things about him, not the least of which they were planning on hacking into their own computers.
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they never executed this plan, we should be clear. and the authorization that mr. yanis varoufakis said he got from mr. tsipras. yanis varoufakis took that authorization. he is an old childhood friend. now columbia university comes up with the plan. greece is saying today there are no plans to have this sort of hacking take place. here is the issue -- you no longer need to hack in. the only reason you hack in was to hide the fact that you are trying to set up a parallel currency from creditors. that is no longer a secret. tom: it is way too inside baseball. where is madame lagarde and chancellor merkel? are they the players involved, or are they on a four-week vacation. hans: seven days, tom. i will not tell you what kind of swimsuit i wore, but you can use
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your imagination. madame lagarde is in washington. i cannot keep track of her schedule. brendan: tom refers to the audacity of taking five days off in a row as a sabbatical. vonnie: it is not just a laughing matter. the previous version of the troika had to be hidden. they were in a secret location. brendan: there was a time when you could not say the word "troika" at all. hans nichols, we will talk about prior actions in the next month. coming up, it takes money to save money. how much income affects retirement access. this is "bloomberg surveillance" on bloomberg television. good morning. ♪
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tom: the president continues his trip in ethiopia this at the african union again with the leadership of ethiopia. and other african nations, as they address the challenges of the great continent as well, making history in kenya and ethiopia as well. time for the single best chart. here is ending really. brendan: the bureau of labor
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statistics released a report that said two thirds of workers have access to a attornment savings plan. that is the subject of today's single best chart. here is what we're looking at. this is broken down by wage quartiles whether or not people have access to a retirement savings plan, but more importantly, whether or not they use it. not only does the axis goes up as people make more money, but the uptake rises as well. here is what i am trying to figure out. does this mean better nudging, or do people just need to make more money so they can save money? neil: i think it is a little bit of everything. first of all, the chart is not fixed. we can debate how much it happens, but folks that are in the lowest quartile, over time they can work their way up to
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middle income quartiles. to me we need better financial literacy in this country. there is a reason why they take up as higher for higher income individuals, and the fact that about half of folks in the lowest quartile have access to these sort of savings programs but seemingly less than a quarter of them use it, that is an issue. you need to get more people at the lower end to participate. brendan: is it possible they are making a rational choice, and that is that they actually need more for consumption now? neil: there is probably something to that, but i think at the same time a lot of employers will do matching. it is sort of a trade-off. you save now, more -- tom: forgetting about the major regression function, which is we all have to put away more money, one of the things that folds
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into this new term value debate is this assumption of everyone's retirement plan, goes down down. we know when it was down to 8% 6%. is this system broken because of how much we have to put in? because we are not going to make all that much in the future? neil: in real terms it is still pretty favorable. you talk about 6% for equities that is still more than you can get in the bond market. investing in it still makes a lot of sense. traditional rules still apply. this idea that there has been some wholesale change in terms of how much we could fund these things, health care costs are slowing, and that is going to help during inflation is low. these will all help going forward. the traditional advice still applies, which is start saving early. tom: peter orszag with us
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yesterday. when he was at brookings, he said you start with the automatic deduction out of your paycheck that you opt out of. that is a no-brainer. vonnie: one analyst has become increasingly depressed about the whole thing. let's go to top photos. tom: are they any good today? vonnie: a florida family of professional treasure hunters has struck gold, literally. over $1 million of gold coins, jewelry, in a 300-year-old spanish shipwreck, the cap atomic -- the capitana. the treasure was found 30 miles northwest of palm beach. brendan: why was i not born into a family of treasure hunters? tom: why are the gold coins in such good shape? they have been underwater for 300 years?
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they look like they were out of the metropolitan museum. they look like the coin collections. brendan: maybe this -- maybe, as gold just not attractive organisms? again, my parents watch this show and i need to register my disappointment that we did not spend my youth hunting for treasure. vonnie: it is a travesty. the greeley family should be ashamed of themselves. number two, alex rodriguez turned 40 yesterday, and for the sixth time in his career he hit a home run on his birthday. he joined a group of three other players who hit a home run before they turned 20 and after they turned 40. tom: give the guy credit. he has been torn to shreds. the new york media loves to beat up on a ride but if he did not
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deliver the goods they would beat him up, and they are still beating him up when he is delivering the goods. brendan: i am just so heartened by the prospect of a 40-year-old playing ball at any level, much less hitting home runs. vonnie: number one top photo, the hong kong giant panda celebrated her 37th birthday this morning. she was born in 1978. she is now officially recognized as the oldest panda living in captivity. tom: that gets us back to kissinger and neck's and almost. vonnie: in panda years 37 years is the equivalent of 110 years. she has a lot of knowledge in her brain, if she could talk. tom: that is how i am feeling this morning. do they bite? i don't know. vonnie: she's eating ice cream.
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how dangerous could she be? tom: they look cute. brendan: the nexen angle was obvious, nixon, kissinger going to china. "do they bite," i did not see that coming. tom: we are going to come back. an important conversation with neil dutta, a glass-have-full guy. there are all these kinds of distractions for your central bank. it is not december it is not september. we will look at your central bank this july when we come back. stay with us. ♪
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tom: good morning, everyone. the ruble over 60, showing weakness in the oil markets. let's get to our top headlines. here is vonnie quinn. vonnie: the mormon church says it will re-examine its association with the boy scouts. that comes after the national boy scout organization ended its ban on having openly gay adult leaders. the policy allows church sponsored units to choose leaders that share their beliefs.
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still, the mormon church may leave the boy scouts. a researcher has found a massive security flaw in google's android mobile operating system. it allows hackers to disable an android device by sending a text message. google has notified its hardware and software providers and has provided a patch to fix the problem. boston will not be the u.s. candidate for the 2024 u.s. olympic -- for the 2024 olympics. boston mayor marty walsh says he would not agree to any agreement that puts taxpayer money on the line for cost overruns. tom: some enthusiasm when bloomberg radio visited there a number of months ago, and it has evaporated. brendan: with the boy scouts thing, i agree with robert gates. it risks being defined by this fight. i thought the compromise was a good one.
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basically, you allow churches to sponsor boy scout troops -- churches who sponsor boy scout troops to pick who they want, and it is unfortunate they are walking away from it. let's move to our fed policy discussion this morning. it is not september, it is not december. july fed meetings are perhaps a place to change a few words, catch up with bloomberg's article on donald trump. maybe we would beg for an ultra accommodative policy. the fed has offered by plunging emerging markets. neil dutta is out of u.s. economics in greece with stanley fischer, that they have move and move soon. will they move in september? neil: i think so. tom: i do not understand the reluctance to signal now to make less tension later. cynthia:neil: by guiding too much,
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the fed risks -- it is a big problem. it was a big problem from 2004 to 2006, where you have the constant -- janet yellen has come out explicitly against that. vonnie: there would be some kind of signal, right? neil: the signal will ultimately come from the data. the threshold for the data is not particularly high. gdp data thursday will not only show around 2.5% to 3% growth. there are upward revisions to private quarters, which will make the fed's tendency -- tom: one of the great advantages janet yellen has is that vice-chairman stanley fischer is arguably the most experienced emerging market crisis guy on the watch. what is he saying to her right now about what we are seeing in the brazilian real, the russian
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ruble, on and on? neil: he is saying that the fed cannot be solving the world has problems and cannot be waiting for all of the world hospira to be's -- all of the world's problems to be solved before raising rates. they leaned too much into the crisis in terms of easing policy, and there is some sort of a hangover for it now. i think stanley fisher would agree with that. vonnie: this has been telegraphed for so long now. september or december, or both. will there be a market reaction of any kind yeah cap neil: right now if you look at the reaction right now, if you look at what fed officials are saying, it is a 50/50 proposition in their mind. the data will continue to improve. i would expect bonds to selloff. i would expect continued volatility in equity prices. in my view, the risk is in 2016 because there is a risk for
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higher inflation that is not being appropriately discounted in the markets. vonnie: you do not think that basis point move would be enough to counter that? neil: no. whether or not you think the fed can ultimately normalize interest rate policy in the u.s. and what neutral interest rates are -- is it zero or is it closer to 2%? i am in the closer to 2% cap. tom: andrea andrea nova talking about the russian central bank where they have to respond to the ruble. it is not just the fed alone this time around. brendan: but they are in completely different territory. they would make new -- they would make moves and have a counter active response. janet yellen has the luxury to slowly broadcast a move that we all know is coming. now that the cycle is coming to an end, let's go back to the innovations that the fed is making raising rates. is this added to our
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understanding of labor, or our existing measures good enough? neil: the index has a 90% correlation with the unemployment rate. i think the real risk right now for not only the fed but for market participants, is that the unemployment rate the u three unemployment rate, is back to being a good measure again. i think most of the inflation can be explained by -- brendan: so we have worked our way through this reinhardt wrote off cycle to where it is going to be a number -- a normal unemployment cycle again? neil: by their own logic, we are through it. not only that, during the peak of the deleveraging years, we have been doing better than a lot of other countries. tom: what happens when they raise rates once or twice? what is the effect on the real
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economy? will he change loan demand? does it jumpstart animal spirits, give us higher nominal gdp? neil: it is a signal that the u.s. economy is getting back to normal. that is going to create some impetus for businesses to pick up capital investment, which is what we have seen typically when the fed raises rates. brendan: i have a quick correction. we were talking about gold and what happens to gold underwater. "gold only reacts with other chemicals in rare situations never with low-temperature saltwater." so those are the coins as recovered, sitting there nonreactive for hundreds of years. tom: we are a font of wisdom. thank you so much for that, out on twitter. neil dutta, thank you so much on this fed day. let me do a forex report. it is a new asked -- it is a
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must consider a newly weekend russian ruble. the bear market deepens in china. a security regulators look to prevent systemic risks. and twitter is not facebook. where is the revenue for social media? good morning, everyone. this is "bloomberg surveillance." we are live from our world headquarters in new york. it is tuesday, july 28. i am tom keene. joining me brendan greeley and vonnie quinn. with a seattle slew of earnings, let's start with ford, the manufacturer and drug companies as well. vonnie: $35.1 billion u.s. second-quarter net up 44%. what we are looking for at afford is the performance of the f-150 the aluminum pickup truck, and expectations are high.
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we are not sure if it will be the second half of the year. operating earnings per share beat $.47. tom: they pictured their press release as optimistic your unit volume up 2%. that is not all that bad. when a conversation we had on "bloomberg surveillance" radio a couple of days ago, our guest was adamant that there is a shortage of those f-150 pickup trucks, they have not made them fast enough. vonnie: they need to move them. they are selling for something like $44,000. tom: the battle with gm and other manufacturers, market share 7.6% up .1% as well. there we are after gm did better than good in north america. vonnie: the polarity is gas is not helping them with the f-150 aluminum body is because they do not use as much gas. brendan: it is not as important as it used to be. vonnie: second quarter earnings
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per share, -- tom: shale down 7%. that gets my attention off of nominal. we have got merch as well looking at old blue chips. i do not know if mrk is a blue-chip anymore. i do not recall 20 years ago that they had all these unpronounceable names of drugs and their press release -- in their press release. brendan: think of them as business units. tom: these are within brazil football right? there is merck pfizer and ford. vonnie quinn, thank you very much. the dow has plunged, almost 5% the vix strikes fear in the heart it cannot even get back to average, things are so good. it is enough to make an equity strategist take the month of
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august off. tony dwyer is chief market strategist and he knows what the markets do like we saw with dupont, controlling costs dealing with average soggy nominal gdp. to sustain your optimism, is the only solution the m&a that vonnie talked about? tony: that certainly helps. you need access to the capital markets. tom: in your world, they have that. tony: they have that. the only place they do not have that is in oil, and that is in a decline. tom: when you ask out energy, the glass is half-full, right? tony: the glass is absolutely half-full. the moment that you started to win you in it, there has not been a significant upward revision in the number. the median is 3.5% on this are
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you begin july 1 when the earnings season begins, and the estimate is for a loss of .1% operating earnings you should assume that the number is actually up .5%. vonnie: what is so great about that? the fundamental fact is that earnings are not that much better. tony: they haven't been the entire cycle, and we have had a 300% gain. i am trying to understand how we come on every quarter, the earnings are terrible, the revenue growth is terrible, this will be bad, and we are up 300%. tom: are you here for a double-digit performance in the dow? tony: i do. i have it six-month out. i have a target of 2340 four the s&p 500, and we will have a robust fourth quarter. it is a very exciting environment here where were you go that credit will get a little bit worse? the story of the goldilocks economy and there is no alternative -- it has not changed, so we do not need to change our view. brendan: do we see a movement in
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the s&p 500 the daily fed makes its announcement, or is all of that already priced in? tony: i think it is priced in. thomson reuters did a great chart --tom: tom: who? [laughter] tony: you used to like me, now it is over. they did a chart that showed what the yield curve looks like before all of the rate hike cycles, and the market never expect the fed to do what it does. tom: the market cannot get out. tony: right. so this idea that market expectations are bigger than the fed dotmatrix, human nature is never different, and ultimately going back to earnings, the key is the market correlates to the direction of earnings. it does not correlate to the rate of change, revenue growth, or any other metrics. it is the direction that matters.
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if you can tell me now how that direction is going to go negative when the data in the u.s. is reaccelerating, you have got to help me with that. let's think about the 1990's where you had 1995 to 2000, the dollar is up 60%. it is not 1948, and it is not a global economy -- it is a pretty global economy in the 1990's are u.s. economy has decelerated after open credit. we had a credit crisis. it took four years or five years, and credit started to expand their clear doing a replay here. the u.s. economy accelerated from the 1990's when the dollar was ripping. brendan: the markets of there is no such thing as perfect communications. tony: i will tell you what is interesting in the cycle and what really makes me so bullish is that if you look at the fed funds futures for the end of january of 2016, it is at about 45 basis points, so is basically
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saying a hike and a half. january 2017, it is at 1.03. what they are doing as they are not telling you they are not going to raise. they are guiding at a moderate pace. what this dictates to the market is the fear that the fed is behind the curve and they will have to jack rates up that much. tom: all right, tony dwyer with us with his optimism. right now on this tuesday, let's get to our top headlines. vonnie: second straight dismal day for stocks in china. shenzhen composites fell 2%. the government is not ending at support for equities. china's government intervened earlier this month to wrap up socks -- prop up stocks. billions of dollars have been lost since shanghai peaked mid-june. lawmakers approve all the cuts required to give a lot money and greece, but creditor say more forms are needed before
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cash-strapped greece gets spirit of bloomberg does the math on donald trump and finds out he is worth much less than the claims. his presidential campaign staff -- trumps wealth tops $10 billion, but the bloomberg billionaires index wins his worth as a $2.9 billion. most of his fortune is in real estate. his brain is not valued beyond -- his brand is not valued beyond his licensing and business partnership. bp is reporting as lowest order profits in 10 years, and the slumping price of oil is not the only reason. the $600 million write-down caused by the fighting in libya. the writing of dr. seuss endures. a book by the beloved children's author is in stores. those are the top headlines, and
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look at the illustrations. tom: just absolutely classic. tony dwyer with us of can accord genuity -- canaccord genuity. given the headlines vonnie quinn talks about, oil brazil russia, china, greece, and the rest of my does that matter in the tony dwyer world? tony: i have learned through so many mistakes in my career that you have to separate fear versus reality. fear is always worse than reality. fear tells you china will collapse and that will be a negative double economic environment, telling you that russia is owing to reengage another eastern european country, it is telling you the iran deal is going to blow up. there are some things you could point to that make you nervous about the market, but these kinds of questions great opportunities as long as our five or one mental these points -- tom: give me one of those. y the marke -- tony: the market correlates --
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that is driven by said policy, driven by inflation. tom: that is very good. tony dwyer with us with canaccord genuity. let's get our twitter question. what is your oil call now? that has opened a raging debate. we thank ed morse for giving us the street's best wisdom. mr. gates will join us this hour as we see the russian ruble go through $60. that is the big data headline this morning. stay with us coast to coast and worldwide, "bloomberg surveillance." ♪
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tom: in ethiopia, the president continues his trip. he is speaking out to the african union mentioning, as you would assume, the cancer of corruption. the president of the united states speaking in ethiopia. brendan: shanghai composite is down 12% since friday. the futurist stabilize today. bloomberg's tim craighead joins us from hong kong. is china learning how to assess equities on value?
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tim: it is very interesting. it was a different dynamic today than what we saw yesterday. it was a broad-based selloff today, it was the technology some of the higher multiple areas, consumer staples, banks financial that were studied. we do see value and a value bit being through in this market dynamic. vonnie: tim, bring us up-to-date on who can sell and who is selling. what do you know about that? tim: to tell you the truth, it is not a transparent market from that sort of perspective. you have to think that the momentum fervor that came from the core of retail investors that took the market up, down back up the last couple of weeks used the pressure points in the marketplace. there is nothing we can point to in saying support and funds like that held up well but i would point to as i said banks
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and staples doing well energy, one of the big state support areas, was actually under pressure. brendan: tim is china's government considering any new actions today, or will they just wait and see what happens? tim: it seems a bit of the wait and see. there was a statement out at the close yesterday by the chief arm, the financial corporation, that had said that they were not backing away from the market. there were other innuendos that that was the case, but there was no official policy move, no official statements, more -- let's see what happens. tom: is this a discussion on the streets of china? i know it is a discussion among the bloomberg world. if i were to go to a second-tier city, is this on everybody's tongue? tim: yes, it is. it is on retail investors' tongues, it is on corporations' dialogue as well. a couple of my team, my analysts
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here work in companies today, and that was a chief discussion of what happened yesterday. tom: thank you so much, tim craighead with terrific perspective from hong kong this morning. coming up, we will link what we see in china, greece, and the rest to the commodity market. oil front and center. fadel gheit of oppenheimer will join us. "bloomberg surveillance." good morning. ♪
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tom: good morning, everyone. "bloomberg surveillance." the president speaking in ethiopia to the african union. let's get our top headlines this morning. here is bonnie. vonnie: another trip for the president, first sitting president to address the african union. earlier today, he toured a food processing plant. he is focused on improving security throughout the
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continent. his his last stop in his five-day two-nation trip to africa. procter & gamble could soon have a change at the top. david taylor is expected to take over. more than 1000 technology experts are warning that killer robots could threaten humanity. a letter from the future of life institute said homicidal machines like hollywood's "terminator" could become very real. among those finding our stephen hawking, elon musk, and the steve wozniak. i am surprised with those names are on that letter. brendan: i will learn how to bow hunt. that is my plan. vonnie: invest in ammunition and food.
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tony: buy an airplane and be near an airport too. brendan: that is the quote of the day. "if you are going to go "terminator," you have to have a small plane." tony dwyer, thank you. deeta from bloomberg intelligence has twitter peaked? guest: their biggest problem has been they are slowing user growth, it is that 18% last quarter, down from about 20% year-over-year, and certainly investors hoping that they have done something to kickstart new user growth. brendan: i am looking at research from brian weaver at pivotal research group, and he says just look at revenues right now. can we just look at twitter as a niche product? geetha: so really twitter's
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problem has been of course its users, but then we saw last quarter their problem was not just with users but also with revenue. they actually came and they miss estimates. they have taken down guidance for q2 for the whole year. part of the problem is the direct response. brendan: geetha, where does twitter fit in if we are looking at long-term ad revenue with facebook and twitter? geetha: facebook and google are really the giants in the space. facebook does have a lot of eyeballs. 1.40 4 billion users. twitter is on a much smaller scale and have to prove that all the new product that they rolled out are actually working with advertisers. tom: what i find fascinating as i look at twitter and i see my ads in my stream, and i hate my ads. the fact that i hate ads in the
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middle of twitter, how are they going to address that? geetha: this is one of the problems that they have been struggling with and that they have been battling. attracting new users but the same time keeping their existing users engaged. most of the problems with the existing twitter users as they do not want to see those ads so they somehow have to be able to marry the promoted tweet and delivered in the waiting native ad format gives you something to play here, and then being able to televise those out so that it is relevant to what the user is seeing in his user fee. tom: geetha thank you so much geetha ranganathan is with bloomberg intelligences morning. tony dwyer, you can talk about 1999 the end of 2000 euros there is an effervescence and facebook and all the others -- we remember zynga, vonnie, from three years ago, but it is not
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1999 this time around. these are elevated bumbling-like but real businesses, aren't they? tony: real businesses, real earnings, real valuations. there can be some exceptions in the biotech arena. but in a very different way than 1999 and 2000, you have an inverted yield curve, credit shutdown back then. you have to shut down the credit and shutdown economic activity. tom: this is a cripple point. if you and i did not know in 2000, 2001 that the profit turned off -- remember that? tony: i remember. we have been onset, and i have been as negative as i am positive. it all comes down to and a lever to economy when it all comes down to companies getting credit and household unicredit, when that credit shutdown, it is over. vonnie: are you saying avoid momentum stocks? tony: no. this has always my second half
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story to us. you have to have a real acceleration -- tom: you warble daily here. you have been cautious. tony: i have been cautious here you have to do it smartly. tom: how do you respond to the go to cash crew? i think of at a park at morgan stanley saying wait, you cannot play that game. tony: better performing a performance killer. you should never ever, ever get ultimately defensive in cash and able market, which is defined by open credit, which is defined by a positive sloping yield curve. as long as people get money, as long as the people at this death can get money, we will not go negative economically. if we were going to get negative economically, we would have a fiscal cliff, hard like chinese real estate, and no credit growth in the u.s.. tom: tony dwyer, we will continue this discussion.
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billion dollars in market value walked away. after today's trading, regulators try to reassure investors. the government imposed limits earlier this month to prop up stocks. the obama administration resumes its sales pitch for the iran nuclear deal today here to john kerry will go before a house committee with the secretaries of energy and the treasury. congress is expected to vote on the plan early in september, but the president already has that he will be tell any rejection. the air force -- the airports of joe biden once called "third world" will be rebuilt. the vice president now says it is a great idea. mr. biden: this program will p millions of dollars off the sidelines toull invest in a virtuous cycle of more
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productivity, more proficiency, and more good middle-class jobs. vonnie: la guardia's main terminal was built more than 50 years ago. microsoft's system debuts admin i tonight. windows 10 will not cause long lines. microsoft's rollout 20 years ago. it will be a free download for anyone who has a home version of windows 7 bing or windows 8. it will be more like apple's i/o wes systems. -- ios systems. a first for the nfl -- a female coach fears she will coach the cardinals during training camp in the preseason. she played running back in the indoor football league. she also has a masters in sports psychology. those of the top headlines. tom: they're a good. let's go to the bloomberg professional service. ruble terend, here is the
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weakening in the ruble and the spike up. fadel gheit joins us at opco. he considers the forces that drive individual oil companies. right now, fadel, it is supply and demand. what news event will determine where the bid on oil is? are you waiting on this in august to be the key news event? fadel: basically, markets are moving because of the supply and demand in talent here the chinese situation, and then the iranian nuclear deal. more of the demand decline and more of the increase will obviously put pressure on oil prices. right now, oil prices are not likely to recover to the second quarter level for more than two years.
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that is what the market is so concerned about, the lackluster behavior, if you will, in the oil market. tom: what is your probability that we will retest the lows of march? if you say two years that we will not get back to where we were, in the meantime, what is the likelihood of west texas $42 a barrel? fadel: not very likely. i not ruling it out, but if it does, it will be very brief because the industry needs at least $50 oil in order for them to break even. half of the producers right now need $60 oil, so they need to cut no costs and take more of the careful spending. tom: what is so important is the very brief rate. we go down, we clear, we come back up. brendan: fadel, what event will give us a sense of what supply is? when will we know? fadel: we will know when we see oil prices moving higher because the market has to come into balance. if not the market will be
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pressure on oil prices. we do not see any signs here that demand is likely to pick up in the next few quarters, and we do not see any indication that supply is really coming down very sharply. so the situation is going to be slackish, if you will come in the next two years. tom: fadel gheit, thank you very much, with opco on oil. we talked brazilian real earlier, nymex trying to get to $46. brazil is not just about oil, is it? there are some severe politics. brendan: what camejoaquin levy has the trust of international markets. he came in today tour, and the estimates are they will have a run racer is. that has been a real shock. you talk about little indicators
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of the market is changing, i think that reassessment is a huge one. tom: a weaker dollar real this morning so some real challenges all in all in the data market including gold down four dollars an ounce. brendan: this is "bloomberg surveillance"." i am brendan greeley with tom keene. ask discussed with tom and vonnie earlier this morning when you ignore my mortgage and cap lady value of my brand, i am worth a lot. -- and calculate the value of my brand, i'm worth a lot. that is the article on bloomberg trump. tom: you are fired! [laughs] guest: our valuation was the donald at $2.9 billion, and that takes all assets, liabilities and cash flows we will find. vonnie: if he were to liquidate today, that is what he would walk away with? caleb?b: yep.
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brendan: it is not just the donald, but it is hard to estimate the net worth of someone who works in real estate. caleb: absolutely. the value we have is that new york city is one of the most closely watched real estate market your have a lot of really good data there. but he also have the golf courses and resort properties, and those are harder to penetrate. vonnie: he does not own a lot of us right, they are licensed the brand has taken on? caleb: there are a few that have donald's brand that he neither built, developed, nor owns. he collects licensing revenue from those buildings, they put his name on with hopes of selling condos and hotels at higher prices. brendan: how do you calculate evaluative brand? caleb: we're only captivating based on the cash flow disclose for royalties and licensing. vonnie: there is a very wide band for each, between $50,000
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and $150,000. tom: there is a notoriety here, i am thinking mr. trump and his staff will not comment on your work, right? caleb: correct. tom: did anyone do this with george bush the younger or for that matter george bush the older? why is this a big deal? caleb: this is a big deal because trump has historically and continues to make it a big deal. he talks about valuation -- tom: he said $10 billion. caleb: he said $10 billion to whether it is our estimate or someone else's estimates, there are slight variations, but none of them get close. tom: everybody, look at the article out on bloomberg politics. it is really mint. two point whatever, then 2.3 trump will whatever, then typically real estate animals, like mr. trump -- i can see three of his buildings and our
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set design here on the set. [laughter] within that, they rolled the debt on top of that. that is a normal real estate dialogue. obviously you say they should not do that. caleb: the nice thing about the fec disclosure that we do not have were all billionaires is a sense of liabilities and what buildings along. we are able to calculate as a separate asset all the liabilities of a have on these holdings. tom: so many of our viewers and listeners know nike town on 57th spirit i am so active in the gym. niketown, he owns that, right? caleb: he owns the leaseholds. he does not have the deed, but he owns the rights to lease it out to in this case nike. when you look at the value of a building versus the value of a leasehold, our values are estimated at about -- tom: were they free and clear and you have.
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come from mr. trump? caleb: no, he is still paying rent back. it recently kicked up to 6% of the property's or market value which leads him a lot of room for negotiation. tom: that is fine because tony dwyer is buying eight pairs of shoes a month. [laughter] brendan: it is significant that we find out how much he is worth because if he is going to finance his own run for office, there is a difference between someone who is worth $10 billion in someone who is worth $3 billion. tony: that kind of thing do not work for steve forbes. that is one of those things or have to be careful at looking what he is worth and what it really means to the whole thing. he is not going to finance -- tom: what is a golf course worth? caleb: the golf courses are valued anywhere from $15 million to $115 million. brendan: all right, caleb melb y, i have to jump in here, send
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we begin a heat wave, three days of hot, hot, hot on "bloomberg surveillance." good morning, everyone. brendan greeley on gold. brendan: we look at gold found at the bottom of the ocean near miami. however, that is not what we're talking about right now -- the price of gold fell to a five-year low, meanwhile futures in new york are ways or the lowest -- are poised for the lowest. steph, what are we talking about "market makers" today? stephanie: the one and only milton berg. an independent research firm -- there is no emotion, no trend following when it comes to milton. there is very little practical use for gold as a currency and lets you remove capital gain tax worldwide, what are you really using it for?
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this is the first time we have seen hedge funds have a negative buyout, an actual short bet against goals and they have been collecting since 2006. it could go as low as 800 or even lower. vonnie: what is giving them the conviction? brendan: this is an ancient academic argument here it is gold a commodity or just a currency? stephanie: if you look at it right now, it is basically fair value against housing, but if you look is stored way, it has traded below housing. he is not just negative on gold this man is 100% short equities. many investors, even if they think their pockets or things that are overvalued, across the board negative on equities? wow. tony: gold is a funny thing because unless you hit somebody over the head with it, if you go into this true armageddon, nobody is going to sit -- brendan: there you go, tony dwyer of canada or genuity
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"gold is a relic." tony: it is jewelry. stephanie: i want another bracelet. tony: i will buy it for you when it gets down below $800 amount. -- an ounce. tom: a new part of the tiffany t bracelet online, vonnie, this is pretty cool. that fits stephanie ruhle 280. stephanie: that tiffany bracelet is trying to get into the market of the hermases cuffs. tom: the bed and china is not happening. tony: there was a correlation -- i read a report that there is a direct correlation to the marriage cycle in india to the price of gold because there is such a demand for jewelry. ultimately, the issue with gold, and what drove it up, was an etf. you brought in an etf that bought physical gold.
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you had a whole new buyer for something -- commodity guys used to buy futures. there was no actual physical buying. these etf's have to buy gold. that creates a demand that was not there before. stephanie: milton will be arriving with gold-plated grills. brendan: on "market makers," milton berg arriving wearing a grill. this is "bloomberg surveillance." good morning. ♪
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tom: we welcome all of you to "bloomberg surveillance." it is one of those indicators of the american economy not setups but brown. vonnie, you have that ups. vonnie: off 2.1% overall, but export shipments up 5.5%. bottom line, ups the earnings per share of $1.35 a nine c ent beat. tom: it is not doom and gloom. vonnie: gliding toward the hiring of their previous guidance range, and the stock is higher in the premarket. tom: there we go. on tuesday, we will continue our conversation with tony dwyer. right now, our top headlines
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trade vonnie: the boy scouts' new policy on gays is not sitting well with the mormons church. church-sponsored groups are exempt from the new policy, but the mormon church says it will reconsider its role in scouting. the church sponsors nearly 3100 kids. if you have an android device hackers could disable it just by sending a text. a big flaw in google's operating system. google is warning its hardware and software partners fear there is a patch to fix it. and the olympics could return to los angeles. boston's mayor would not burden taxpayers with overruns, so the u.s. committee might denominate l.a. for the 2024 summer games during the international olympic body makes the final choice. i could see you playing a round of golf in the olympics in st. louis. tom: what do they do --
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in los angeles. tom: what is a do now? brendan: they are competing with hamburg, who definitely has a strong bid. that is where i place my money. tom: futures up 10 this morning. it is a most treacherous time for market strategies with diversions commodities, chinese diversions, it is a most treacherous time. this is difficult for tony dwyer of canada or genuity. in this single-digit world, it is boring to split hairs. tony: come up with something better. [laughter] tom: that is what i write at 4:00 a.m. if you look at the s&p 500, if you look at robert shiller's work, the s&p on inflation-adjusted basis, they zoomed out beyond those two previous beats. tony: i have got to say if you inflate -- the evaluation of market correlates to where the
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core inflation is, so historically when core inflation is between 1% and 3%, the market trades at 19 times earnings so it is that 17.5 or 17.8 times earnings, there is still an upside. if i drew a chart for you, the pe of the market, and you asked hedge funds, mutual fund individual markets -- would you sure that trend? -- no one was sure to that trend. what is relevant is the direction of the pe is up, the direction of the earnings is up and until that changes, which is only driven by credit, you do not want to bet against it. tom: i want to address bob schiller who says on a basis the s&p inflation-adjusted is expended. tony: the market is extended ok. now what, so what? now you have got to pick a reason that that direction is going to change, and that reason
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historically is only credit. brendan: let me find where the circularity of this argument stop. if it is driven by credit credit can dry up really quickly when it goes. how do we know in advance that is going to happen? tony: an inversion of the yield curve. tom: which do you use? tony: the six-month 10-year. tom: you need janet yellen to upset the optimistic apple garden. it is the only thing i can find since the early 1950's that drives the recession, which drives sustainable drop in equity prices. brendan: have inflation excitations changed and definitely? tony: no they are starting to pick up, brendan. the bigger issue we will deal with two years from now is that the fed is again behind the curve. he do have senses of a pickup and labor inflation. there is a .89 correlation to core inflation and the employment cost index, which is
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beginning to lift off below, which actually is a good thing because it offsets some of the commodity price deflation. tom: where are the banks? i know you do not talk brian moynihan or jamie dimon, but our banks attractive on their own behalf or because of cost? tony: they are attractive because of both. the next stage of the market is very clear -- every time the market perceives of the saddest into race -- that the fed is going to raise interest rates, which sector performs? the banks. now you're picking up as it comes more apparently fed is going to actually raise rates. you are getting increased loan demand, and you will get better net interest margins. brendan: tony, valuations of china go up, go down, they do not have a much effect on the regular economy. is our equity market that much more mature than china's? tony: they are. when you look at the u.s. economic data, it has been proven that there is some
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fraudulence in there because of they way they collect data. you know that the revisions are ridiculous, so now you're going to tell me i will trust the chinese data? and i will trust the fact that the chinese authorities are moving the stock market back and forth? so our view is the relative performance of emerging markets in china -- brendan: you put huge importance on the accuracy of data. you have said this before -- do not move on the announcement move on the third revision. tony: you have to. we had negative first-quarter gdp. everybody got negative because you will have first quarter negative gdp and there will be three quarters of negative revisions in a row. you will likely see a flag to not negative gdp, and earnings have yet to be negative. after today, they may be positive for the current quarter. tom: you do not specifically talk commodities, but it is in an opportunity in mining stocks, particularly gold miners? tony: there is an opportunity
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because pessimism is so pervasive. however, this is human nature. when something gets a huge value -- remember when gold was ripping? one of my favorite cult was to be negative uncle because there were five gold shows on "discovery." [laughter] tom: no, it is true. tony: "gold rush: alaska," "jungle gold." anyway, i digress. human nature does not change. you create an oversupply situation with something gets too much value. brendan: i like is the next because it also called for the housing market. tony: how about energy? you had workers on oil rigs on discovery. vonnie: you have a sixth sense because we're going to go to oil. tony: no i just watch too much tv. [laughter] vonnie: this is on oil. thank you for tweeting and. watch for asia. tom: this is a very important
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thing. watching and waiting is the hardest thing to do. vonnie: i think there is a song about that. the second answer -- big oil and regulars cannot fill tank far ms fast enough. tom: brendan was talking about the boats. brendan: the boats off the shore of the persian gulf. tony: does anybody remember the satellite imagery for our five years ago? tom: satellite on discovery tv. tony: people were paying for satellite imagery of boats sitting out at the harbor outside of china. vonnie: one more -- one thatbe is to look att advanced -- one bet is to look at a dance firms in emerging africa. tom: my agenda is that we are not there yet. we will get there based on the vector of the bid. brent crude is not west texas
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intermediate here brent crude is european oil. a $49 handle would be a huge deal for her now we have a $52 so we are not there. brendan: my agenda is greece. we knew at the time we do not put this to bed. the troika or the quadraigra . they are in athens negotiating over where they're going to stay. just how an addressable these are going to be. vonnie: i am watching the home price index because we want to see signs for the u.s. housing economy. we also have robert shiller the economist, joining us tomorrow. tom: the geographical makes you get in case schiller is really valuable. vonnie: it is backward looking but never the less very important. tom: futures up 10. that is what happens when tony dwyer cons on. -- comes on.
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you are watching "market makers pepco matt did not have his clothes on seconds ago. matt: i am matt miller, in for erik schatzker this week put china fell again. even gold is down again. it is a little bit lame. i do not want to be alarmist. stephanie: here we are to start an exciting tv show. matt: we have a lot going on but i am just saying. i think we should tell the truth. stephanie: while debbie downer is sleeping in his coffee, i will talk to you about what else we have going on today. take earnings. merck, pfizer, all on our agenda. matt: innovating a lot. you might be as sick of as i am the net worth of current republican front runner donald trump. he recently said $10 billion. he has said a lot of numbers. the
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