>> from our studios in new york city, this is "charlie rose." scarlet: doris kearns goodwin is here. she is a pulitzer prize-winning author. her first book "lyndon johnson and the american dream" was issued in 1977. it is being reshoot as a book. josten signed the boating zach into law. he called it one of the most monumental laws into the history

of american freedom. he was asking lawmakers to help him pass this legislation. president johnson: even if we pass this bill, the battle will not be over. what happened in selma is part of a larger movement that reaches into every section and state of america. it is the effort of american ne groes to secure for themselves the full blessings of american life. their cause must be our cause too. because it's not just negroes but really it is all of us must overcome crippling legacy of bigotry and injustice. and we shall overcome. [applause] scarlet: you must look at that

with mixed emotions. on the one hand, a proud moment for him and the country. not easy. on the other hand, then came vietnam and all that suggested and perhaps limited what he might have achieved otherwise in building society. doris: no question. i think about those years when i knew him, the last year of his presidency. he was so sad during that time. he knew better than anyone that his legacy had been cut into by the war in vietnam. how i wished he was alive now. you know what produced the voting rights act. medicare is having his first -- having its 50th anniversary. he created the foundation of our social and economic foundation. people are finally realizing it and he is not alive here.

four months after the speech girl selma comes the war in vietnam. if only he could have done a. go back and say, don't do that. from the time he was young -- he caught at this mexican school in texas and he speaks about it. he saw kids who he said could feel in their faces the prejudice of being discriminated against he wanted to give them a chance to rise. he taught at a high school and wanted kids to become something. he wanted to rise from his circumstances and wanted other people to do that. it is a basic and equalitarian sense. if you looking to the tapes when he talks about poverty, their israel passion in his voice. that is what is crazy and separate scarlet: he did not know away --charlie: he looked

at what was happening. he was a sad man in the end? doris: i think so. he would tell a story. he was a great storyteller. he would get all excited. the story might not have been true, but it was funny nonetheless. you see that side of him. [laughter] i remember he told me about his great great grandmother dying at the battle of the alamo. i said, that's amazing. the next step was she didn't die there. he wished she had died there. except for the moments where he got excited and he talked about the ranch where he want from the ranch to the birdhouse -- birthhouse. he wanted people to come to his library. they were going to the kennedy library. charlie: what did he think about jack kennedy? doris: i think he liked jack

kennedy. charlie: you emphasize the jack. [laughter] doris: he said, he was a little whippersnapper when i was majority leader. i gave him a committee assignment. he felt that he was on top of jack kennedy. that's why being vice president with a reversal. he blamed everything on bobby. he hated him. charlie: why? doris: my husband knew bobby and i think lobby's anger towards lyndon is once he got popular as president, he thought he was eclipsing jack kennedy's memory. my husband trying to make them feel better says, don't worry about that. julius caesar only had three years. bobby said, it helps to have shakespeare write about you. [laughter] i think that is what happened in bobby's eyes.

charlie: lyndon's success made it hard? doris: i think so. i don't think he liked him all along, but for lyndon johnson, all the anger he felt about being upstaged by president kennedy put it on the brother. some people don't like each other, and it was not exaggerated that they were mortal enemies. charlie: they probably could have done a whole lot to help president jack kennedy because of all the things in the senate. doris: something happen. in the beginning he went into the democratic caucus and wanted to become a member as vice president and they did not want that. there is a separation of powers. he was so hurt by that. he thought he could have led the congress. he is majority leader and now vice president? charlie: probably not a good idea. doris: probably not. it might have had things done during kennedy's presidency. doris: would you write a

different -- charlie: would you write a different book today? have you learned about presidents, about power, about competition? doris: i'd like to. i am in my 20's when i write the book. use the only president i have ever known. as a presidential historian many years later, i would give anything to have him back again. where did your ambition come from? why do you want to do these things domestically? what was your sense of power? how did you know when you walked into an institution persons of power? charlie: is that born ordeal learned that? for him? doris: he learned it. he walked into his college and learn how to get power. he walked into the send it -- the senate and learned it. he had an amazing ability. charlie: he could make older men invest him -- invest in him

look at him as a protégé. doris: richard russell was a bachelor and he knew he was only on sunday. he would go over and read newspapers with richard russell. he wanted to be with him. it was not just calculating. older men took good care of him. even as a kid, he liked older women. charlie: what was the hardest thing writing about? doris: what it was like being at the ranch with him and to know that i thought he was bringing about his own death. yet a heart attack when he got down there. he was not to keep smoking. he was smoking and drinking. charlie: did he talk about mortality? doris: he did. he said, i want to be remembered and i don't know if they will remember me the right way. when he went to sign the actual medicare act, is now going to be on july 30, the 50th anniversary, he went to truman's

place because he wanted truman to get credit for originally wanting medicine. he said, no one is remember truman now. i'm helping them remember. i want them to remember me. shortly before he died, he said i hope if anyone remembers me, i hope it will be for civil rights. he has been. his last public appearance was when his civil rights paper were opened. he was popping pills because he had angina attacks. charlie: civil rights might include voting rights. doris: the desegregation act, the civil rights act of 1964 and open housing act of 1968. he saw everything together. he saw economic and legal rights joined at the hip. doris: for all you say, john conolly told me -- charlie: for all you say, john

conolly goldman-s. -- pulled me this. doris: uh-oh. charlie: john conolly said johnson sent him to chicago to make sure humphrey did not change of vietnam. that was his purpose there. i was in that circumstance to believe him because other people have told me that is true. doris: i was at that convention. i was on a vacation with a friend of mine. i'm with a bunch of friends who are all antiwar people. what are we doing here? i made a comment to them. if he calls me anything about and asked me to do so become a i'm going to say no. he calls me in the room. he says, i have a favor to ask you. last week you barred my tooth

brush -- borrowed my toothbrush and i can't find it. [laughter] i was so embarrassed. he called and said, how do you think i am? i was going to have a big birthday party and i was going to land on the top and i can't even go to my party which was my party for so long. so then, there i am one moment hating the war and being mad at him and the next miami becomes back. i would like to believe what that experience with johnson taught me, as i went from johnson to kennedy, and kennedy to fdr, and fdr to cap. it is to understand people from the inside out. that is what he taught me. when i came down after writing the article, he said bring hurt here for a year and if i can't win her over, it's fine. he did.

what happened was i was young so i was not threatening, but i was a woman, which made it easier. charlie: and you were from harvard. doris: it was the future. he thought it would be writing. he crazily told me he reminded -- he was reminded of his mother. he had said we wanted to talk about our relationship. i had been talking about boyfriends nonstop. he said doris, i want to tell you. here it comes. he said, more than any other woman you remind me of my mother. [laughter] i think he was lonely and just wanted to talk. and i listen.

[laughter] charlie: for millions of americans, i am a naked man a pretender to the throne, an illegal usurper. those are words from a man -- they would have been at home in shakespeare. listen to that language. i was illegitimate, a naked man no presidential covering, a pretender. doris: he is saying this right after jfk's assassination. that is how he felt. all my life i wanted to reach this point and this is how i reached it. not only was jfk assassinated in my state, but the murderer of the murderer was what he was referring to. he said, it is just unbearable. charlie: it happened while he

was there. doris: exactly. the incredible thing is he took command almost instantly. what an extraordinary thing. the country does not know if this is a conspiracy, whether it is a part of a group of people that will try to be assassinated and he knew he had to take command. when he was a kid his grandfather was a panel driver. when a stampede occurred you had to get a horse in and take people away and get them out of there. that is what he was able to do in those first nine months. the first nine months of his presidency are extraordinary. the civil rights act. charlie: the night he comes back from dallas and literally ceases the government -- siezes the government and says this is what i want to do. i want to get a poverty program through. charlie: did he have talent to be a legislative leader or more as a president?

doris: probably a legislative leader. he knew what every senator wanted to he knew what every congressman wanted. which one wants to take a trip around the world? which one wants their wife to be in the social life? he could store that in his mind. the executive thing is bigger. that was the problem with foreign policy. he could not make a deal with ho chi minh. if he could have, he would have. charlie: the interesting thing is what bob carroll said, that power -- i think he said basically that when people get power, they reveal who they are. in some ways inspired the best instincts in him. charlie: more than -- doris: more than that where is ambition when you think about it? some people want the power for themselves. he said one time john, some people just want to distract it.

i want to use it. charlie: what is the presidency for if you don't get to do that? doris: isn't that great? from the early part he had that sense of otherness. charlie: what is interesting now as people are looking at him because of the play, because of television. it is the fact and i always bemoaned that he should have been willing and his associate should have been willing to let linden be -- lyndon be lyndon. doris: he stood behind the teleprompter and he could never just be him. he had command of language. even when he was writing a memoir, i would write down everything he said and it was hysterical. he would say no, that doesn't sound presidential.

i can't say that. he still would have been a controversial figure, but he would have been an unforgettable figure. he is the most interesting person we have ever met. charlie: on that, i thank you. a pleasure to have you here. [laughter] doris: that was your best line. [laughter] you almost got me. i/o it to history to tell you. charlie: thank you. doris: this is great. charlie: we leave you with conversation with dr. martin luther king jr. they're talking about passing the voting rights act. president johnson: if you find the worst environment in louisiana or south carolina, the one i think was the head of the school it pesky -- at tuskegee.

being denied the right to cast a vote. you take that one illustration and get it on television, get it in the meetings, get it every place you can, pretty soon the fellow that did not do anything will follow through and drive a tractor will say, that is not right. that is not fair. that will help us on what we shove through at the end. dr. king: you're exactly right about that. charlie: if we do that, -- president johnson: if we do that, it will be the greatest breakthrough of anything. not even the 1964. i think greatest achievement in foreign policy. i said to the group yesterday. it was the past of the 1964 civil rights act. i think this will be bigger because it will do things that even the 1964 act could not do. ♪

charlie: william f utley junior and gore vidal -- william f buckley junior and gore vidal were frequent guests at this table. >> you must realize that some of the political issues are here. people in the united states happen to believe that the united states policy is wrong in

vietnam and the viet cong are correct and wanting to organize their country and own way politically. this is in agreement in western europe. it is a novelty in chicago that is too bad, but i assume that the point of american democracy -- >> as you can express any kind of -- >> shut up. the answer is they were well treated by those who ostracize them. i am for ostracizing people for egging on people to shoot american marines. >> the only cryptonazi i can think of is your self. >> stop calling me a cryptonazi. have him go back to his pornography and stop making allusions -- >> i was at three of the last 4 -- >> you're distorting your own

military record. charlie: a new documentary, best of enemies, look at the impact they had on the role of political debate. here is the trailer for the film. >> this is miami, day one. the republicans decided to hold their convention south of the mason-dixon line. i blew that one. >> pieces of the ceiling start flying and the whole thing started giving way. >> to help us extract meanings from these conventions, william buckley and gore vidal. >> bill buckley was the first modern conservative to say ideological debates are cultural debates. >> you think miniskirts are in good taste? >> in you, i think you are. >> the only one i can think of is gore vidal.

>> gore vidal is one of the most successful and distinguished writers. >> we are all prostitutes ethically, if not sexually. >> i am a happy warrior. i am in battle and enjoying it. >> everything was going tomorrow. >> these were two visions of america clashing. >> each that the other was quite genius. >> all the security makes it nervous. it's necessary, i guess. >> if buckley were to get out his ideas would take down a nation. >> it was almost as if they were matter and antimatter. >> freedom breeds inequality. say that a third time. >> no. >> always to the right and almost always in the right. anything obligated confuses mr.

witt all -- mr. vidal. >> they really do despise one another. >> listen, you are right. >> stop calling me a cryptonaiz. -- cryptonazi. >> this is william f buckley in new york. good. charlie: morgan neville and robert gordon are the directors of the film. thank you for being here. so smart and so articulate in the command of language. the retort was so good that it was a perfect extra. >> when you set out to make a documentary you throw yourself into something that will take a

lot of time. when we saw this footage in the raw we are ready to dive in. charlie: seeing that will give you a head start on whatever you want to do. morgan: watching that reminds me of how witty they were. charlie: under pressure. live, not scripted remarks. doris: -- morgan: i went through gore's papers and he had pre-scripted insults. charlie: you don't know when you will use them, but we do them up. robert: he had done a lot of opposition research on buckley and he came in to dethrone him completely. buckley came in thinking was going to be like another firing line, where he could use his with and the debate skills to get by. this was different. charlie: who won? robert: it's complicated. the debates there, --

morgan: the debate there, you have to think that buckley won. he has been so cool most of his life and he lost it once on the national stage. it haunted him for the rest of his life. charlie: what are your identities? robert: -- morgan: i am liberal. i.e. worked for gore out of college, which was not easy. i was a fact checker. he was almost perfect. charlie: it was to see if the point was not exact true. robert: he was an amazing writer. i had immense respect for him. i am a liberal. the key thing was to make a film not about the arguments, but about how we argue. charlie: did you come away with a greater appreciation of bill buckley? morgan: absolutely. robert: both of us were taken by the fact that off-camera, he enjoyed hanging around with

people who did not agree with him. morgan: he told an editor who we hired at "the national review" not to hang out with conservatives, because they are boring. robert: i can't -- morgan: i can't imagine gore saying the same thing. charlie: he had a sense of you was smarter than anybody. morgan: absolutely. he believed it and in almost every case, it was true. he was an incredibly smart man. charlie: he also worked hard. morgan: he worked hard and he played hard. he was a novelist, a playwright, a screenwriter an amazing essayist. charlie: good actor. morgan: he crammed so much into his life. in a way, that is buckley, too. charlie: he could not at the magazine. he could not go out to make speeches. he could not ski. he could not do the things that rot great pleasure -- brought

great pleasure to him and get him purpose. morgan: there is something tragic about that. here are these two men who were the center of american life for a moment and they each had a huge impact on american culture. at the end of their lives, they were both lion in winter characters that had seen the mainstream pass them by. it was tough for them to do that. charlie: here's a clip showing them preparing for the debate. >> buckley expected this to be an opportunity to date the issues, that some fun. -- bait the issues, have some fun. he was not prepared for mr. witt vidal. >> he wanted to paint the national review as racist if he could, as anti-somatic. >> i don't think he was interested in conducting an

interview about policies or platforms of the two parties. what he wanted to do was to expose bill buckley. ♪ >> their confrontation is about life, sort of. what people should we meet? their real argument in front of the public is who is the better person? charlie: who is the better person? robert: it is a culture war. each of the cultural values we are -- battles we are fighting today. it is embodied in these two men. i think that is at the root of their animosity. they fear that the other will see the other as themselves. they are so alike but polar opposite in thinking and each on the same level that they see a

dark fun house mirror. they see ianan alternate version of himself. charlie: how many times did they see the debate? robert: it was instantaneous on the debate. a friend of mine had a late copy -- bootleg copy on dvd and i saw it. i shipped it out to morgan and we dove in. we were credible on the film. it took a while to make, but we did it. charlie: were you doing other things? morgan: among others. we immediately sought as a film. we sought as contemporary. a lot of people did not understand it. we told people it was a film about today. what is the relevance of these two guys sitting around talking 50 years ago? it is about today. it is such a mirror to today.

the evidence we got for that was when we first decided to try to make it as a field. we sent a couple of interviews out. we sent one to christopher hitchens, james abbott, all of which wrote back instantly that said, great idea, come here right now. that gave us all the ammunition we needed to make the film. robert: when you see the film now, the most common wee response we get is i can't believe how contemporary this film is. charlie: what was the reaction around the country? robert: this is the summer of 19 -- morgan: this is the summer of 1968. i think people were shocked by that. there was no youtube. a fight like that would now get played over and over but it was buried for decades. robert: this confrontation was spread over the republican convention five days and five

days at the democratic convention. as the horns locked, the call mists -- columnists were writing an word began to spread and the ratings went up. abc, they were forced out of three, basically, the way that somebody described it, and this brought them a lot of attention. charlie: this is a clip from this show, both of them at this table at different times. here it is. >> it was one silly example, 1968. the conversations with william buckley on television at conventions. a very personal debate we had. 1968, republican convention miami beach. i said there is no difference between the two party. each is led by the same people.

explosion. how could you say such a thing? charlie: you mean about bill? gore: it was always there. charlie: people like bill buckley notwithstanding the fact that they disagreed with what he said, what he wrote, what he believed. william: i thought they liked him because he had come around. i don't know charlie: -- charlie: i don't know if they ever came around. did you think they came around or did they just like the company of the man they were keeping? william: this sounds vainglorious, but i think reading what i wrote were brought to their attention

incentive. charlie: i remember so much of that. he wrote me a note after his first appearance on the show. he said, you are going to be the best thing, flattering to me, since mike wallace. this is gore talking to mike wallace. gore: i'm so in touch with reality and you are so far off base that i cannot begin to save your soul and the seconds we have left. i'm absolutely right on the line i have taken and you are wrong. we're never going to have that again. we are going to have to contract we don't know how to adjust to this. we are going to have to have less gross national product, not more. we are headed for a complete economic crackup. there is no doubt about that. mike: are you planning on spending your last days with us

here in the buckle, or are you abandoning this? gore: the idea that i'm a next patriot is reserved specifically for those who like to undermine my view. i never have been a next -- an expatriate. now i think as time it's bad and icy darkness all around me i see these disintegrating cities and i watch these frightened people, they get scared, i would be very inclined to return because barring a disaster, then you have a part to play. if the world was about to end, or at least society as we know it was cracking up and it is best to end your days, as it were, on native ground. charlie: you see a sense of thinking in larger terms about the world. robert: epic in their ideas, i

think. i think very original in their thinking. they did not shill for either party. in the film you see them talking their party. not that they disassociate with a party, but they share both sides of thinking. charlie: i think it was said that before there was reagan there was goldwater. before there was goldwater, there was bill buckley. [laughter] morgan: he was there at the beginning of the conservative movement. "the national review" was started in 1955. he was building a movement. charlie: "the national review" i think was his finest. morgan: it was certainly the most productive. charlie: what happened after this? did it change anything? was it simply something that happened between two engaged warriors at conventions and they went their separate ways, never

to speak of it again? morgan: -- robert: we can see what happened by reading the ratings. the ratings got a huge response. the networks made fun of abc for forsaking their journalistic integrity and 1972 did exactly what abc did. everyone brought in color commentary. the idea of point-counterpoint developed. people saw that on "60 minutes" and people saw that what an audience responded to was fireworks. over time the fire gave way to just the image of a flame and now we see people tune in to political shows to see yelling but you can do it on mute now. morgan: in the wake of this,

because it was such a high-profile event and haunted both of them, particularly bill that bill wrote a long essay. in the following months, gore wrote a long essay responding to that and then they sued each other for four years over. charlie: over the article they wrote? morgan: and the debates on television. they brought it all in. they had a massive lawsuit that when on for years and years. charlie: how did it end? morgan: gore's suit against buckley was thrown out on lack of grounds. buckley was suing "esquire" and then buckley dropped his suit, declaring his victory over gore. robert: he was brilliant to have the press conference at point it out. someone said it riled gore for all of his days after. charlie: he may have said things

that were critical of america, but he loved the history of the country. robert: he considered himself the country's biographer. charlie: he lived in italy, but he was always here writing or on television. morgan: they are not just fighting about 1968. they are fighting about the republic. they have the standing of the american republic, but of republics going back to ancient times. they were such scholars in that way that the stakes could not have been higher. charlie: congratulations. the film opens on july 31. robert: in the month of august we will spread wide, we hope. charlie: thank you for coming here. we will be right back. stay with us. ♪

al: senator cory gardner is considered one of the republican stars in the house. he served two terms in the house before winning in the swing state of colorado. he was optimistic. we welcome him back again. nice to see you, senator. senator gardner: we have to prove to the american people that we can govern truly.

that means we put practical ideas on the desk of the president. ideas that have support of the democrats and vulcans alike to prove we can regain the trust of the american -- democrats and republicans alike to prove we can regain the trust of the american people. al: have you been able to do that? senator gardner: we have voted more on one day of this year than we did in all of 2014. if you look at the numbers we passed over 60 bills, most of which are bipartisan, 25 have been signed into law. when i presided over the debate over the keystone xl project. a senator offered an amendment lost the amendment and came up to the clerk and asked them for a copy of it tallied. don't you just usually keep a

copy of the winning votes? he said he yet never offered an amendment on the floor today. i know the senator served in the majority. i know that it's a great sign that we have made a difference and open the process. al: we will talk about those specifics in a second. what has been your biggest disappointment? senator gardner: i thought after the election that we would be able to really work with the president, that there would be common ground, that there would be opportunities to do big things and big ideas. there has been a moment where we were able to work with the president, but that has been the only moment. there have been big legislation that has passed with overwhelming bipartisan support, like the corporate pardon legislation on iran that the president initially said he would veto and finally reluctantly signed. senator gardner: both sides ended up -- al: both ended up agreeing on that bill. senator gardner: both sides did but be cousin betrayed authority -- because of the trade

authority, that is the only level of the administration that is actually able to work. al: people in colorado told me that cory gardner, a pretty conservative publican, and michael then it, your colleague, a pretty liberal democrat, that you have a close working relationship. senator gardner: we do. we had to. i think all senators do. if they don't, they should. [laughter] al: that is not always true. senator gardner: colorado is a place where you did not expect to go to washington and retreat to our political corners. they expect us to do the work they sent us here to do. al: he is of a reelection next year and there is no real competition. are you going to try to beat the drums? senator gardner: there will be in a -- there will be an opponent. i think he will focus on the work we need to do. al: you are very much an optimist.

you talk about the good things that have happened. there is a sense of some of the greatest tensions in this congress have not been between obama and the congress but within the republican party. the other day, senator cruz called the majority leader a liar. some tonight senator cruz a vote. someone in the house was calling on the speaker to vacate. does that happen in your party? senator gardner: there is a great deal of pent up angst to get something done bigger than what we have been able to do. what we haven't been able to do is because of a 60-vote are in the senate or a president willing to veto legislation we put on his desk. there were people elected in 2011, 2012 who want to get things done and that leads to differences of opinions. members talking about procedural motions and whether they would exercise several options, it all worked out. we will be a stronger caucus going forward.

al: i want to ask you one question about donald trump, was the front runner in the polls for your party's presidential nomination. as trump and his message been good or bad? senator gardner: i think it shows there is an anger out in the public it is the -- out in the public. it is the same anger on the democratic side. bernie sanders and the attention he is getting, several thousand people in colorado showed up for a bernie sanders event. on both sides there is a lot of frustration with people who want to do different than the way washington is heading right now. al: you almost immediately opposed the iranian nuclear deal. let me has -- let me ask you to respond to david iglesias the washington post columnist who said it is not a permanent solution, but better than the alternatives. senator gardner: i think that is a false narrative that we have. the alternative that the administration wants is this or

more. that is not true. the alternative is go back to the drawing board and strike a better deal and to get back to this deal and what it was supposed to be in the first place. that is to make sure we have a nuclear -- prevent a nuclear iran. that is what we must do. this bill does not do that. we had a hearing where we talked to two experts. one who supports the deal, one who opposes. both the great it is not this or nothing or this or war. they both disagreed with that premise. we should go back and increase sanctions. there are things we can do to make the deal better to make sure they do not continue with nuclear research that will allow them in 8.5 years to move forward on the development of reactors which could lead in a timeframe from that point forward to a near-zero breakout rate. i am afraid is what it

creates is a patient pathway to a nuclear threshold state. it will do so with the blessing of the world and a flourishing economy that has tremendous influence over the region. their ballistic missile embargo will have been lifted. their arms embargo will have been lifted. they are going to be able to sell oil. it is a dangerous situation. al: let's go back to what you said a moment ago. the french have signed on to this. the british have signed onto this. the germans have signed on to this, not to mention the chinese and wrong should -- chinese and russian. sanctions are different in the senate or u.s. congress defeats this, you can't reimpose that. senator gardner: i don't think sanctions are dead. if we can't reimpose them, the snapback provisions won't make a difference, either. the penalty under the bill is to put sanctions back in place. if sanctions don't work, why would the snapback provisions work? al: i'm just saying if the deal is killed, if it is void, then you are not going to be able to

reimpose sanctions because the other allies won't go along with it. senator gardner: i think we can create a scenario of sanctions that are stronger and i think we can have sanctions in a way that affects our allies. if we are doing business with a country or company sanctioned under this deal and they have lifted their sanctions and we have secondary or third-party sanctions that would affect them i think they would pay very much attention. it would still bring iran to the table. we had a briefing several months ago at the state department where we had secretary kerry and a state department analyst talking about the sanctions. the state department analyst said the sanctions re: routing support for the iranian regime gave me. secretary kerry said sanctions can continue to work or something to that affect. those two points don't match. either they are working where they are not. the state department said they are working. let's make sure they continue to work. let's make a deal that results

in no nuclear capability no nuclear infrastructure. al: let's go back to what you were saying on january on obamacare. he said i am for appeal, but it has to be voluntary. it is not enough repealed. voted again but no replace, no alternative. republicans have not been able to frame that, have they? senator gardner: that will be an argument in the conference as we all recognize that we need to fight for repeal and replace. while i disagreed with the supreme court's decision, one of the best outcomes was several republican alternatives were talked openly on the senate floor. there are multiple ideas, good ideas to replace obamacare. we cannot just talk about them. they need to be voted on. we need to put those into place. al: in five years? art people about the say, wait a minute. how long, o lord, do we have to

wait? senator gardner: as someone who grew up a lutheran, we have to wait for a long time. [laughter] we have a health care bill that is driving major and make a consolidation with insurance markets -- megaconsolidation with insurance markets. we have an increase in insurance spending and premiums in colorado and elsewhere going up 30%. al: you think that will have to wait for the next pres the last time we had a conversation i believe i said that with a president named obama, they would not repeal a bill named obamacare. we need to show americans that we are committed to ideas that we ran for and show them that we can. al: we can't talk to a politician in colorado without bringing up weed. [laughter] a piece of legislation you had been working on -- the problem

in colorado, where marijuana is legal, is the banks who are under federal law, take deposits from the companies out there. are you closer to a solution? senator gardner: this is a problem. it is one of the greatest hypocrisy. this this is that have hundreds of dollars of cash on hand. they can't take it to a bank. they have to pay their taxes in cash and they pay a fine. they also pay a state excise tax on marijuana. they can pay the city of denver and they can cash it and then put it into a bank and fund public activities with it but the business can't. it is creating a public safety issue and a hypocrisy issue. we introduced legislation to allow banking to move forward. senator merkley from oregon and i are working on it.

i don't know that it is going to pass this year, but the fact is it is an educational process. i think this is something that every state in the country over the next 10 years will be facing and it will pay a lot of attention to what we do. al: now that you have had a chance to watch it were, you think colorado was right or wrong? senator gardner: i think it is too early to tell. al: we talked about what happened the last seven months your expectations, and where we are now. what would constitute success for the session? senator gardner: i'm working on a piece of legislation called american competes. this is the reauthorization for many federal agencies. it needs a great deal to colorado. we are excited to get that through. the trade bill is absolutely critical. it is the biggest opportunity in a generation. it means over 260,000 jobs already in colorado. al: how about increasing the debt ceiling? will that go through without threatening -- senator gardner: i have not

heard anybody threatened. i think we need to have a republican and democrat solution to look at how we address a $17 trillion, $18 trillion debt in a reasonable manner and provide the government with the resources necessary to move forward, to avoid a lapse in funding, but do so in a responsible manner that does not continue to burden future generations of the country. al: thank you for being with us. senator gardner: thank you for having me. al: thank you for watching. ♪

♪ angie: commodity companies tumble and oil at a six-month low. the call ahead -- lexus won the luxury race for toyota last month. there is no plan b -- obama says climate change is the most important issue facing the human race. welcome to first up. i'm sheri ahn coming to you live from bloomberg asian headquarters.