rishaad: -- jon: with all the respect to mark -- rick perry this one is for free. >> on the show tonight, clinton and perry calling crews but first trump. if he leaves the race he dominates. the latest republican candidate strategy to deal with trump is to talk about hillary clinton. advanceat the library experts in which he is quoted as saying that isis grew while the notice states disengaged and ignored the threat.

and where was secretary of state clinton. yesterday marco rubio hits back at hillary clinton on abortion. in part, she said supports abortion even at the stage when an unborn child feels pain. she has radical views that we look for to exposing in the months to come. scott walker on fox turned to a question about trump into an answer about hillary. all of this clinton bashing and this audition to be the best at doing it happened under the trump radar. >> if hillary is the candidate, which i doubt, that would be a dream come true. >> how will she lecture me about living paycheck to paycheck. >> hillary clinton lies about benghazi. she lies about e-mails. she is still defending planned parenthood. and she still the front runner. mark: voters would like the best hillary clinton attacker to be their nominee.

so far in those examples, who is doing the best? john: undoubtedly, carly fiorina has been the strongest, most acerbic, most serrated edged attacker of hillary clinton. it has not made her a front runner, but it hasn't put your in -- but it has put her in contention in a way. especially since bush has been bad at it is one of the many problems currently beleaguered ring him. >> i think walker, is thought that one liner like a lot of things it doesn't seem passionate. but carly fiorina has the red meat. she will talk about benghazi and e-mails. i think the rubio's statement was really strong it is an issue on which republicans had been on offense because of planned parenthood and hillary clinton she cannotfter against exceptions on an portion rubio right now shows fight for the middle not for the base.

>> and think he should still fight for the base but he was strong. >> no fight for the middle. >> hillary clinton was on her own offensive rampage this week. she targeted marco rubio on abortion and on a conference call with reporters today jake sullivan preempted that jeb foreign policy speech by tying him to his brother's legacy in iraq and in new hampshire, clinton used in education speech to, another republican 2016 contender. >> you take someone like governor walker of wisconsin who thes to delight in slashing investment in higher education in his state and making it more difficult for students to get scholarships or to pay off their debt. >> it sometimes feel likes we are in the general election. walker defended himself on twitter and shot back with this. i have frozen in-state

tuition rates for four years while you charge colleges $225,000 just to show up. hillarythought that clinton was strong yesterday taking on marco rubio the way she did and here she is taking on scott walker, can she keep oing this a after day? >> it is a conspiracy. they want to talk but clinton and not trump and she was a talk about leading republican candidates are not trump and not e-mails and she wants to inject energy into her campaign. i think we will see this on a regular basis. >> she also doesn't want to trot -- talk about bernie sanders you think she would be taking on her strongest challenger but sees no particular upside. >> romney did the same thing four years ago. john: it is fascinating moment where the two people each party does not want to talk about, donald trump and bernie sanders. mark: the good thing is that she was not as strong yesterday -- the good thing for her is she

agrees with bernie sanders on a lot of issues. it fires her up that she doesn't agree with republicans. rick perry has shifted some of his campaign volunteers to -- his campaign staff to volunteer status. money is tight right now. he has not been able to raise nearly as much as he helped. rand paul has been fighting a lot of bad headlines himself. so-so debate performance not as strong as he had hoped, and background in part of his campaign, not to mention the recent indictment of two of his campaign advisers. those two, perry having trouble raising money and paul tried to run for senate as he runs for resident. will we see anyone drop out before iowa? john: two or three months ago i would've said that no, we will see everyone straight through iowa. and the presumption was that all of these guys would be evil to -- would be able to raise enough

money to get through iowa. but in the case of rick perry, he has not been able to necessarily. and for rand paul, money is really important. and there is not enough. mark: although perry super pac has millions of dollars in it. if he scales back, all you need are some plane tickets to show up and be on television shows. terry and everybody else realizes that when and if as they think will happen donald trump will have collapsed there will be a lot of instability and even if you are not the immediate beneficiary you can be the last man standing. winnowing. no john: ted cruz has been on a roll since the republican debate last week in cleveland. the crowd loved him. his campaign has been bragging about big crowds he's been getting on a bus trip through the south. and he's got a new tv ad running in des moines, iowa. >> for a century americans have helped heal and care for those in need.

our values propelled extraordinary innovation. america made the world better. how did america become a country that harvested organs from unborn children? and who has the money to stop it? -- who has the courage to stop it. ted cruz will prosecute and defund planned parenthood. join the rally for religious liberty. >> i'm ted cruz and i approve this message. john: is ted cruz in the top-tier candidate question mark and if not, -- in the top tier of candidates? and if not? -- and if not, what will you have to do to get there? mark: he has done well in three of the four states. what i thinks puts in close to the top-tier is he is one of the few candidates who has plausible victories in three of the early states and the long-term plan. trip positionsus him as someone who understands the short-term menton game in the long-term delegate game.

hebecause of the fundraising is certainly in the top-tier is a fundraiser and that is super important. i do think this question of how these multiple supertex are going to court and it campaign and how effectively the money it will get spent is a huge question and there are the underlying dynamics. >> coming up next, roger stone.

>> our guest tonight is mr. roger stone who has recently left working regularly with the campaign but has been much in the news. a lot of questions about your departure. we don't want to talk all that much about that but i want to clarify one thing. you have said and others

speaking on your behalf have said, one reason that you wanted to go with you thought it was wrong for mr. jump -- trump to be engaged in a fight with megan kelly and he should be focused on his message and others didn't see it that way. everyone i talked to says exactly what you say and they say that is what mr. trump has chosen to do, were you in fact a lonely voice on that issue? i didn't hear any other voices but i do not want to divulge my private conversations. i have a confidentiality agreement and i do not want to violate it. but have said that i thought the whole thing was a distraction. back and forth with any media personality. blame liesponsibility/ with donald trump and not any advisers. guest: i'm not sure i heard anyone else giving him advice that that was not a good idea

never mind my own advice. politics at the presidential level is about big picture ideas and getting people to latch onto them with memorable phrases. i think that is what has gotten trump to where he is in the polls and what he needs to return to. i think he was ill served by whoever leaked the fact that he had a conversation with former president bill clinton, which was a private conversation. i don't believe it was political, but i don't know. bill loves politics and cannot help but give you his two cents whether you want it or not. i do recall three years ago -- when trump was caught up letting a run, ill clinton was among those who told -- bill clinton was among those who told him he should run as an independent and people are ready for it. heat rejected that advice. in republican primary voters, bill clinton is the devil and he gives rise to all kinds of crazy conspiracy theories.

are the clinton's maneuvering trump -- nobody maneuvers trump, i assure you. john: you remain not an advisor but you remain a supporter of donald trump. i know you are confident that there is a way in which he can win the republican nomination. can he win with the team he currently has? or does he need to change at the team and hire more people like you? roger: he needs to expand the team. he's got some very good people, like mike glassner. a is unfair in the media as sarah palin guy. he did work for her but he is really a dole guy. he has one of the best rolodex is in the republican party because of his long service to my political mentor, bob dole. the first job i had in d.c. was working for bob dole on capitol hill. i think mike glassner is an example of the kind of person he needs. but you cannot run a presidential campaign on a skeletal basis. but it's got to be a bigger operation. just the challenge of getting on the ballot in all 50 states, so

if you are lucky and you strike fire in one of the early primaries you are in a position to capitalize on it. otherwise you end up like gary hart, you are hot my but no place to go. john: do you have specific recommendations? roger: if i did, they will be private between us. i'm not an employment agency. mark: you have been involved in presidential politics for a long time. you worked for ronald reagan and usually before we started that you flew up to petition mr. trump on his plane. roger: the new york ballot process was far more onerous than it is now. mark: you have been involved in politics for a long time. let's say, mr. trump starts to do better or begins to be more solid in the polls, can he win iowa and new hampshire? roger: certainly, that he needs to stick to the message that has already gotten him where he is in the polls. he has already made history.

most pundits said this was not -- that he would not really run, that this was all it was these that -- a global three stunt. they've been proven wrong. -- they've all said it was a publicity stunt. they been proven wrong. then they said he will never file his financials. he will keep filing for extensions. it turns out that jeb bush files for extension and trump files on time in full disclosure. the pundits have been wrong about him. he is a larger-than-life figure. his greatest ability is to get everyone's attention. the question is what he does with that attention when he gets it. john: whatever his net worth is, he claims about $10 billion. others say about $5 billion. whatever it is, let's say he is liquid of the $3 billion or so. -- $350 million or so. is he willing to spend that money? has he spoken of a willingness to spend that cash on the campaign? roger: you could argue on the one hand that you have to spend $100 million or you cannot do

this as a free media exercise. on the other hand, conventional wisdom proves again that is exactly what he is doing. he has not spent that much based on the last report i saw, but he's leading in the polls. there will come a day when he is facing paid television advertising. if you look at the survey research in all of these polls where he has performed extremely well, his greatest gains were among those between 59-70. and particularly in the south. those are the people in the house in the summer time watching television. so when jeb bush unloads his dirty wall street money in negative advertising, or one of the other candidates, who knows, he will have to do something. mark: you mentioned jeb bush. besides mr. trump, who could be nominated at this point? could have a bb nominated? ted cruz? rand paul?

walker?kle george pataki? roger: let's not get carried away. john: it donald trump were hit and that 25%rrow were up for grabs, who among those people you just mentioned would be in the best position to inherit his support? roger: if you look at both public and private surveys, the top percentage of supporters tend to be ted cruz, rand paul. very little crossover with those like chris christie or jeb bush. what is very interesting is, trump, the non-politician, a lot of his second choice voters go to ben carson, the non-politician. those are the two standouts in this race. the two guys you are not career

-- the two guys who are not career politicians. inside the mind of donald trump after this word from our sponsors.

>> we are back with roger stone formerly of the trump campaign. we said we wanted to take you inside the mind of donald trump. who does he listen to? who are the voices he turns to for big decisions? definitely listens to his wife are cheaters a terrific person and speaks seven line which is an is a real strong supporter and is very much in favor of the candidacy. aboutnally said, you talk saving the country and how upset you are and you talk about running, you should run. john: when was that? roger: the beginning of the year. she is very solid. she is a great woman. john: does he take political advice from ivanka?

roger: i can't speak to that. i am not privy to those conversations. she is a great executive and leader in her own way. he respects her and she respect him. john: how is he different than the other candidates you have worked with in terms of decision-making? reader, a study or -- a studier and he thinks about things. but he doesn't have a bunch of cronies. does he like rudy giuliani? yes. he values his opinion, but trump is very much his own man. he's unscripted, uncoached, unhandled. he makes the decisions. he will consider anything you want to tell him. he's very accessible, but very much his own man. mark: i'm not asking you to ,riticize him or praise him just to understand him because

you've known him for so long. i have people describe him as the nicest person they've ever met. but at times he lashes out at people with a for a city that is -- with a ferocity and negativity that is quite striking. howdy you explain the yin and ya ng of that? roger: first, he loves people. mark: how do you go from that to "you are a jerk"? roger: in business in the manhattan real estate world it is a dog eat dog world. one of his maxims i agree with is, if someone hits you hard, hit him back. harder. that is fine if you're in reality tv, but this is a different realm, and i think he will realize that over time. john: he is prone to ebulience

and he sometimes says things that are not true. he said that you cannot find a chevy in china and that the gross to medic product was below zero. and he exaggerates a little bit. if there were 5000 people in the room, it was 15,000. and there is always the biggest crowd that has ever been in any given place. for most politicians, they would be called out for that and it would be a problem for their credibility. can he just keep doing that, and if so, how long will he get away with it? roger: first of all, he is a good salesman. part of that is salesmanship. does anyone care if they were 800 people at the rally, or 1500? john: people cared when al gore said things like that. roger: donald trump has never said he invented the internet. the assessment of the crowd size versus i invented the internet -- i don't see the correlation. john: he has said things like this over and over again and it part of his self-promotion to -- self promotion capacity.

will that become a problem for him? it?ill he skate past will skateink he past it. the only people that cares about that are the gotcha people in the media. the voter doesn't care about that. i think the country needs a cheerleader, a salesman, someone will lead. that is the problem with jeb bush. the guys a stiff. mark: one of the times i heard him expressed doubt about anything is when john and i interviewed him a couple of months ago and we asked if he would stay in the race until the end and he says, if i'm not doing well, maybe i will get out. does he think now that he will be the next president of the united states or it is he still thinking this might not work out? >> he is not a fool. he will not throw good money after bad. mark: some people say, i'm going to be the next president of the united states.

other people say, we will see. where is he? roger: at the time i resigned come and i did resign, he was optimistic. he is an optimist by nature. the aunt seeing the big picture and being larger-than-life. he is optimistic. this ise's measure going exceedingly well. he has yet to spend one dollar on paid media. and i said, if possible your free media coverage will drop off. and i was completely wrong about that. the conventional rules of politics, so far at least, do not apply to donald trump. it is exciting. john: i know you think he should threaten to possibly run as an independent candidate in order to keep leverage against the republican establishment. he says as long as i am respected i will not do it. what would constitute sufficient disrespect? roger: the new york times reported that the other three candidates considered boycotting if mr. trump was there.

having studied the ballot access rules, in 15 states the republican establishment can keep you off the ballot with the stroke of a pen. he said over and over again on the stump, if he's given a fair shot and has a level playing field and the establishment doesn't try to gang up on him, of course he wants to run as a republican. he is the front runner right now. but i wouldn't give up on that leverage, because i think there is a war within the rnc. i think there is a war room of guys who sit around saying what can we do to derail donald trump. pissingng class is their pants here. this guy is a challenge to the two-party duopoly that is running the government. john: now that we have you stroking your chin and talking about urination, that brings this to a close. thank you, roger stone. we will be right back. ♪ john: when i was talking about

donald trump's misstatement i made one of my own. he said there was no chevys in china, i meant tokyo. mark:, you corrected it. thanks for watching. sayonara. ♪

>> larry page and a surrogate brennan started out wanting to out --surrogatergei started and came google glass, virtual reality, curing debt and now a radical we organization that is one nod to wall street and another to the future. on this special edition of bloomberg west we go in depth on the bet to change the world many times over. emily: i am emily chang and this is a special bloomberg west to delivering alphabet. coming up, what