john: with all due respect to my wife, i swear i was doing opposition research. happy national spume own a day. in our lineup tonight, joe biden versus hillary clinton, hillary clinton versus the media, and ted cruz versus the establishment. first, donald trump versus everyone. the city of mobile, alabama will play host to donald this evening in front of an expected crowd of 40,000 humans.

josh green has a preview up on bloomberg politics.com. he reports that primary state -- that the primary state is key to locking down the gop nomination. it comes as the political world asks who in the field might try to take down trump before then. for which of those candidates is it most important to do that and what is the best way to go about it? al: 16 of them. nobody can get any traction. there is no oxygen. they all need for him to come down if they want to have any chance. it probably mostly affects jeb bush right now. how do you do it? they don't want to do it themselves because they have seen it backfire. they would love to find some outside groups to do it. what do you do?

john: i think you have some candidates. i hate to disagree with you. jeb bush is elevated by this fight. the imperative is really strong. walker has some money. his super pacs have some money. he has been negatively affect did by the trump rider. he has seen his fortunes fall. a lot of these other candidates would like to take down trump but they don't have the means to do it. while -- walker might, and i and they have a huge incentive to go after him and try to paint him as a closet liberal. al: i'm not sure that is going to work, but i do think they have an incentive. so does bush. i sort of agree with the theory that i'm told karl rove holds, which makes man comfortable. it is like a boxer who takes a lot of body blows in the fourth and fifth round. it ultimately wears you down. trump is effective in parlaying

and creating anxiety. there is a dose of racism. i'm not sure how long it ultimately is. john: it concerns me to be in a situation where i'm not only disagreeing with you but karl rove. from one primary to another -- ted cruz some -- ted cruz summed up the memory of the gifford. ted: if you see a candidate who washington embraces, run and hide. it came from the american people and it turned this country around. we went from stagnation to booming economic growth. we went from hostages in iran to winning the cold war and telling the berlin wall to the ground. -- tearing the berlin wall to the ground.

[applause] why am i so up the missed the? tic?hy am i so optimis because the same thing is happening today. john: you work for bloomberg view. you have a column of this week in which you argue that ted cruz is, "the most underestimated candidate in the field." make your case. al: i knew ronald reagan, i cut for -- i covered ronald reagan. i think he is underrated for a lot of reasons. he is tough and incredibly smart. he has a lot to money the top he has the right message. they love it out there in the .ountry folk top any right-wing candidate can coalesce that movement, it will

be ted cruz. i am not sure it will happen, .ut he has a shot o john: i think ted cruz gets as much love as he deserves. his strategy seems to be we are going to cozy up to trump. we're not going to criticize him because when he crumbles and falls apart, we want to be there. what if trump doesn't crumble? by the time you get to the sec primary, you are left standing there holding a big pot of money and with a lot fewer votes you need to win any primary. al: you are dead right about that but it will be curtains for the others. if trump falters ted cruz and everyone else suffers. john: to me that sets up a perfect race between john kasich or jeb bush one-on-one with donald trump.

i know that is what they are counting on. i think ted cruz may be roadkill. it has been quite a week for hillary clinton. her campaign worked overtime on rolling out a "relatively aggressive" education process. first, the candidate else held a widely panned press availability on tuesday. then communications director paul merry appeared on this program. they answered a lot of questions on wednesday. on wednesday a video was released in which brian fallon that checks tweets -- brian fallon fact checks tweets about benghazi. ged withhing the flag potentially containing classified information, it is simple and marked unclassified. you can go to the state department website to this day, look it up, and printed out because it remains unclassified.

because the state department treats this e-mail is unclassified, it sent the committee a copy of the unredacted e-mail. by the same logic that the inspector general was holding some of thison to, means potentially members of congress who received this e-mail from the state permit are trafficking in classified information, and anybody who goes to the state department website and prints out the e-mail is also trafficking classified information. john: a little sarcasm there. late this afternoon the clinton campaign was back at it again with their aggressive strategy. taking all of this into account, how effective has their strategy been so far? al: i'm not sure what they said in the conference call. on a scale of one to 10, about a minus two. nothing has worked. i think brian fallon is a smart fellow. that is not her test.

again, this hasn't been explained very well. john: i think that is exactly right, i think there are too many places where they don't have good answers to pertinent questions. if you ask the question, are they in a better place right now with less established skepticism , with less press skepticism they were atision, the beginning of the week, i think the answer is obvious. there is more skepticism and the facts that the investigation -- the fact is the investigation has gotten worse, not better. coming up, steve shale, the obama allied now urging joe biden to run for resident. after the break. ♪ john: barack obama won florida

twice. now part of the movement to joe biden in the 2016 race. he is the latest figures to draft bidens super pac. thank you for coming on the show from tallahassee. i have to ask you, you are a smart guy, a strategist. you are not a dreamer, not an idealist. do you know something we don't know? is the vice president is getting closer to getting into this race? steve: i know as much as you do. it looks like he is serious about considering it. i don't have any inside knowledge. for me this is a chasing rainbows sort of thing. i have a lot of affinity for the vice president, frankly after two presidential campaigns in florida i was looking forward to spending 2016 on the beach, not in the campaign office. when it became clear the vice president was serious about this it was a chance for me to raise my hand and be part of a movement that encourages him to do it. john: why do you think it is imperative for him to get in? steve: i think he will raise the game of everybody. first of all, his record is unparalleled in the field.

45 years of public service, he obviously has been involved in every major and domestic foreign-policy issue. i think he is coming at it with a very adult attitude towards things. i think it is the right time for a guy like joe biden to get into the race. john: it i had asked you one year ago, you have said hillary clinton was going to be basically coordinated. coronated. how much do you think the scandal has hurt her with the the democratic campaign and beyond? steve: in the end if she ends up being the nominee, democrats will unify behind her. it is a race of her vision of the world and what the

republicans put up. i feel comfortable about that race. for me it isn't about that. i think joe biden is a good man. i think he has the experience our country needs right now. i generally like the guy is a person. i have to be a part of this. john: al hunt, jump on in. al: steve, you are in a crowd of millions that likes joe biden, but politically, would you see have over hillary clinton as a candidate? steve: if you look at the appeal of donald trump, part of what helped him take off is he is a straight talker. he is mr.authentic. joe biden is very much a brand. unlike donald trump, joe biden brings a 45 year public service record. becomes comes from a working-class background. he's never sort of lost that edge.

they understand what working-class families go through. it will be good for the democratic party. al: you just compared him to donald trump. how about two hillary clinton. does he identify more with the working-class voters and have more authenticity and secretary clinton? steve: to me. i think joe biden comes from a working-class background and in his entire career at the senate he was a stay-at-home dad. he has never lost those values. he is a guy who can talk about what our party has been struggling with. al: what about money? lot of people think he would have a difficult time raising money. steve: these primary cases are all about momentum. do i think joe biden can put together a competent team and compete in every state? absolutely. if joe biden can compete in the

early states and pick up the early wins, can he compete in the later states? absolutely. will he be able to build the operation that the clinton has in a matter of four months. ? no. but that is not the goal. we are going to start talking to volunteers in places like iowa and new hampshire about things they can to prepare for joe biden getting a race. assuming he does. john: if joe biden gets in this race, do you think he takes of votes away from hillary clinton? maybe he helps bernie sanders or takes of votes away from sanders from the anti-clinton vote? where does he get most of his votes from? steve: i think it will be interesting. i think he pulls from all the candidates. at this point, we seeing him pulling at 20% in the early states. he is also not a candidate. he has the ability to talk to working-class families in a way we haven't seen from a serious

contender in a while. i think he will do well in places like iowa, new hampshire, and self airliner. -- and south carolina. john: you are a florida guy, can him beating hillary clinton? steve: hillary clinton has spent 30 years in florida building a strong network. she would definitely be the favorite. joe biden has spent a lot of time in a florida as well. john: let me ask you real quick, if you had joe biden on the phone right now, she is a smart man and i think he wants to be president. i think you would like to run in his heart. i think he worries that hillary clinton would steamroller over him. what would you say to joe biden to convince him to do this? steve: if you are going to wake up one day and regret not

running, he should run for president. john: that is a strong, short, brief, concise, compelling point. thank you for doing this. when we come back, talking trump. ♪

>> the government is broken, the system is broken, the democratic answer is let's fix big government, get new programs and issues and solutions like that. i think our answer is some he has to invent government in the garage again like you did with

the apple computer. john: you have to love vintage c-span. that handsome devil is our next guest, way back in 1991. he was a pre-strong skeptic of donald trump. he is calling him a threat to the party that must be stopped. i asked him about his change of heart. alex: i was misinformed. he has grown. he started off as the anti-washington candidate, the angry man's candidate. now he is not only becoming an anti-them vote but a pro him. she is becoming the "make america great again" candidate. him. that gives him room for growth. john: he is doing this event in alabama. they say 40,000 people might come. a lot of people dismiss crowd size. should we look at that number of people and say, that is a serious thing? alex: people know this is a rare phenomenon and it may not last. let's go see elvis while he is here. i think there is some of that,

but anyone who discounts donald trump, that he is going to be around through the convention is making a mistake. john: there's a lot of political discussion about who might try to take trump down, how they might try to do it. he is talking about it himself. in your view, as a former strategist, for whom is it most important and imperative to try peg?ake trump down a pai alex: he sitting on a bunch of people on the conservative side. he is sitting on ted cruz. i doubt ben carson will do anything about that. ted cruz will wake up and realize, this race is going to end and i will never catch up. on the establishment side you can wait a little longer.

whether it is carly fiorina, jeb bush, or marco rubio. let's not stand in front of the tsunami right now and just coalesce. become a better and stronger candidate so you can be in the lead when everyone turns to the anti-trump. john: what would be the best angle to do that? trying to take trump down? alex: the best way is the way brutus killed caesar. hug the message, but not the messenger. we know why you hate washington. your country is on the verge of decline. it is going over a cliff and nobody is doing anything about it. we get it. donald trump and i agree on that. i think we should take his energy, take his heat, and use it to fuel your engine. turn his heat into your action. , when voters hope

get serious about this and say, i agree with them, but he is not a president. jeb bush decided he was going to go after trump. some people called it a tirade. some people thought it was really good. what do you think about the way bush decided to take it on? alex: that is the right way to take trump on. he is not really a republican. trump is a unicorn. it is something we have never seen. he is running as a republican, but he is comfortable with more power for donald trump. i think that is where he is vulnerable. when you are a business guy and you blow a deal, maybe donald trump doesn't get the country club. when you are a politician and

running for president and you blow a deal, your relationship with the soviet union, that might be world war iii. at the end of the day, it will be hard for the republican party to marry trump. the strong. strong. enough to rescue this country right now? jeb bush demonstrated strength, but it is still kind of pale compared to what trump is doing. john: how do you think he is doing on balance? you are not backing anybody in this race. you are not backing jeb bush. alex: the good news is the campaigns don't pick candidates as much as they make candidates. i think jeb has shaken off some of the rust.

he grew when he stood his ground against the press. i think he is getting better at it. internet,now, the campaigns have changed since jeb bush last ran. we were talking and in today's world, it is a communications campaign. we share stuff of the time. stuff has to be big and important to demand all of our attention. you cannot be in old-school candidate otherwise the media will not work for you. that is something that has changed. john: barack obama has changed our conception of the presidency. he is glamorous, he is a celebrity, he is ubiquitous. in some weird way obama has paved the way for trump. alex: what is big enough that we can all share in this? will need our constant attention. if it does not have some bigness

and substance, we are not going to do that. that has been a big change. john: thank you. we will be right back to find out how it is hanging with deez nuts. ♪

john: deez nuts is getting huge. he picked up two endorsements. have mcmillan and warren g started a revolution. now more than 60 people have registered bogus campaigns. on monday, former u.s. attorney general is with us. we're going to talk to him about hillary clinton and her private

e-mail server controversy. until then, from me and my friend albert reinhold hunt junior, have a good weekend. ♪

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