john: i'm john heilemann. mark: i mark halperin. with all due respect in the writing team, you missed the ball on this one >> biden his time. >> biding his time. >> joe seems to be biden his >> is he just biden his time? >> for the past 8 years, just biden his time. thank you, thank you very much.

♪ [laughter] mark: on the show tonight, the stocks ended hands pilot. but first, throwing rocks. the only one worth taking down. today jeb engaged the front running donald in englewood, colorado. >> mr. trump believes you can just round people up. and it is an easy thing to do because he is a successful guy and he can have successful people do it and it will work out. well, the cost of this will be extraordinary and disrupt community life. it does not embrace american values that i think should be respected. it is not a conservative plan. it's not practical. it will cost hundreds of billions. it is not going to have been -- happen, either. it is just not possible. he's proposed eliminating remittances. so who is going to decide who is legally remitting money back to their families in other countries? are we going to have to just go

door-to-door and do this? you can't build a wall and solve this. if you have been to the border, all, you put american citizens -- unless you build in the middle of the rio grande river, which i don't think it's feasible, the cost is extraordinary. the terrain makes it impossible. it is a great soundbite, but it is not defensible in terms of a practical policy. mark: another day of data about jeb bush and whether this is an effective way for him to advance his candidacy by taking on trump. what do you think? john: i will get to my caveats in a moment. but on paper, the notion of making this mano-a-mano fight with donald trump being feisty, being conservative, trying to peel away some supporters from marco rubio and john kasich who don't like the fact that those guys are being quiet about

trump, all of the paper makes sense. reserve untilill after you speak. mark: the bush campaign is not in a take every thing. but they are going to look to do this to try to help define jeb bush. my caveats are, jeb bush says he wants to do two things. one, be joyful. that did not look like a joyful man. he has to learn to do that. the other is, he said he's not going to say things that will hurt the general election chances. john: to your first point, howard stern i believe, said he thinks jeb bush speaks spanish better than english. i think there's something to that. not only is he not joyful, he's also just sort of yammering and stammering, he's not driving the message he wants to drive. on paper it works. the performance is sorely lacking. mark: he talked about planned parenthood and seemed to want to get rid of it.

he's making errors in the context of going after trump. john: trump tower is not just a skyscraper. we will be there tomorrow to interview the donald live on this program, so tune into that. trump towers is also a description of the donald's to the republican field. he so far above the others that they are barely able to be heard. but you can discern the wind candidatesperings of things.rumpian like this from scott walker in new hampshire on friday, when all the attention was on trump in alabama. scott walker: you're fighting a war, you identify who the enemy is. we have said it repeatedly. radical islamic terrorism. it is a war against not only america and israel, against christians, jews, even the handful of reasonable moderate followers of islam who don't share the radical beliefs that these radical islamic terrorists have. mark: just a handful. john: just a handful of moderate muslims. fyi, we asked the walker

campaign. they replied that walker knows full well the majority of muslims want peace. having said that, this is not the only candidate who has said from things -- donald trump things that have been blown away. are those things going to come back to hunt them, or are they going to get away scott free? mark: out think he believes it's only handful, inc. he misspoke. in short-term, they get away with it. i think if you are going to beat donald trump, if you will be a finalist, you have to improve performance. a negative effect is these guys are not getting coverage. john: it's a funny thing, it would be bad for them in some sense if these things got a lot of attention and they got hammered your it on the other hand, someone like scott walker who has made a lot of small -- being too loose with his language, it would be better for him to get hammered because he can learn from that.

mark: he has a big rally in iowa today and jeb bush said the thing i referred to earlier, about planned parenthood, the wealthy. let's listen to what jeb bush said earlier. jeb bush: i for one don't think they should get a penny. that is the difference. there are not actually doing women's health issues. [applause] they are involved in something way different than that. mark: the democrats are jumping all over that. that may come back to haunt them. today, if jeb bush was a friend -- front-runner, saying planned parenthood shouldn't get any money and they don't do have care, he's going to get off easy. john: hillary clinton tweeted today. but it seems like that last error, i thought when he stepped in on the comment about not providing money to women's health, i thought he learned. i don't know if it's a mistake or they are trying to hide that

trail. that they want to hug rail. mark: i think the last one was in his speaking, today he seemed purposeful. -- misspeaking, today he seemed purposeful. there's another one being overlooked. that is walker versus rubio. marco rubio, from florida and scott walker from wisconsin have been matched up on august 1 team -- 14th. walker announced he will give a speech about obamacare. a couple of days later, marco rubio wrote an op-ed in politico that recycled a previously announced plan about dealing with obamacare. coincidence? maybe. flash forward to yesterday. walker announced a foreign policy speech in charleston this friday. today, guess what rubio did? he announced he is also giving a policy speech in charleston on the same day, about an hour earlier, just eight miles away. marco rubio said he will focus on china, something walker has been talking about for days. we tried to get the marco rubio campaign to respond. what do you think?

john: i think once, maybe a coincidence. twice it looks like a pattern. these two guys have been hurt as badly as anybody by donald trump. they could have been in the top tier with jeb bush if not for donald trump. they are clearly not there anymore. no one would argue that. they are scrapping around, trying to see if one of them can take the other one out. i don't think there's room for both of them. mark: they are trying to be into a bush in terms of symbolism. they are also competing for donors. there are not raising as much as they would like.

no one is. the walker campaign would have a claim to say the rubio folks are trying to bracket and shadow walker to keep them from getting advantages. they don't want him to break through. john: it's also because the rubio people -- everybody is scrapping around for what is left on the floor, but also a sign walker is weaker. he was sliding. rubio people see an opportunity to pounce. mark: maybe, but they are the ones showing weakness. let us know, rubio campaign. john: we have been biding our time long enough. let's get to the. joe biden attended the funeral of former congressman louis stokes in cleveland. also amid speculation he might run for president, he plans to lobby the dnc members on the iran nuclear deal. speculation ramps up every day, more intense. that he is leaning into it, that barack obama has given his blessing, etc. we have been grappling with this

while you were away. what is going on right now in biden world? mark: white house, and the clintons and all this other stuff, this is a personal decision. on the one side, that argument is beau biden told his father he wanted to run. -- he wanted his father to run. joe biden had the chance to be elected after running twice before and does not want to give up that dream. on the other side, personally does all that stress in the family because of his son's death. several people told me he is not in the mood to go screaming down the presidential campaign trail. in the end, personal will decide it, and i think it will be very hard for the family to decide this. john: i think you are 100% right on the personal thing. the interesting thing about people around the president, they are very confident they can raise the money, campaign, all the stuff the press can focus on.

is clinton weak enought to challenge them? all that stuff, they think there's an appetite. and there is space. the question comes down to biden's pardon. the way that biden recovered when his wife and child were killed in 1972. the way he recovered was throwing himself into work. part of him thinks a campaign would be recovery. another part of it thinks if he cannot do this joyously, he can do it at all. and he is not sure if he can find the joy in his heart. ♪

♪ john: our guest is associated with two of the most beloved institutions in america. red sox nation and the united

states senate. former senator john seen a new of new hampshire. thank you for joining us. you are associated with john kasich. we have a bunch of questions to ask. we'll start with this one. we have watched over the course of last week, jeb bush taking the hammer hammer to donald trump. explain why one establishment candidate like jeb bush sees it as being in his interest to attack trump, where your guy has not. sununu: i can't speak for jeb bush. i think it is the wrong thing to do this early in this stage to lash out and start going after your fellow candidates. you saw the debate, chris christie and rand paul going at it. i don't think anyone came out better for that. it is early.

this early in the race, you have to remember, you are still introducing yourself, whether you are jeb bush are marco rubio or john kasich. you need to be introducing yourself to the voters here and across the country. you need to do it every day, every week, for the next couple of months. anytime you are not introducing yourself, you risk losing ground. in the case of john kasich, he is governor of ohio, he balanced the budget, cut taxes, created jobs, privatized prison, reformed entitlements. these are important issues for him to get across to voters, to make sure they understand where he come from, how he solves problems. it's not smart to be lashing out at every candidate. mark: if you were to compare john to any previous senator, who would it be best president, who would it be? sununu: every republican with throw out ronald reagan. but there are some parallels. it is wrong to say john kasich is ronald reagan, but he's a governor, chief executive ask

-- executive experience, he is a problem solver. he has a joyful vision for what america can and should be. i think there resonates. mark: if you work to compare donald trump to any previous president, who would it be? sununu: come on, none. there has never been a nominee like donald trump. you know that. mark: in what way? sununu: no political experience, someone that has supported legalizing 10 or 20 million illegal immigrants, now he changed his position, he's obviously not had the experience. mark: we have had presidents who change positions.

sununu: well i think those are dramatic changes. you know this, you know there are a lot of things that are very different and unique about him, and i think to try to compare him to a previous president would be a little silly. john: we want to talk about donald trump, so we will ask you one last question. he has so far, more or less laid off john kasich. there may be a correlation or causation there. if donald trump with a start attacking your guy, how do john kasich would handle that? sununu: i have no idea. it's kind of a silly hypothetical. this is a long campaign, 162 days until the new hampshire primary. the smart thing for any candidate, even if you are being attacked, is to focus on your

message, your game, your vision for the country. introduce yourself to the voters. john kasich has done that very effectively over the past 6-8 weeks. it's the start of a process. people didn't think we would be on the debate stage in cleveland but we made it. he has made headway in the polls. on the first line tell him we have a long way to go. polls are transient. you have to focus on your record, your experience and your game. mark: senator, john kasich is doing well in the polls in your state. one of your fellow supporters predicted that at some point before labor day, john kasich would pass jeb bush in the polls. in some that appears to be true. you think he should focus mostly on new hampshire or should he make an equally big effort in iowa and south carolina? sununu: i think he will continue to visit iowa, south carolina, new hampshire, michigan. mark: in equal measure? sununu: you never do anything in equal measure, i don't think. you have to pick and choose areas where you have the strongest organization. but i think he will do very well. of course new hampshire, very well in south carolina and michigan. iowa is a caucus format. it has not been a good predictor necessarily of success. you have a very spread out field.

it is a challenging environment. we hope to do well in iowa. mark: senator, you called us silly twice. which can't help but remind us of your father, who recently had surgery. we are glad he went through that successfully and please send him our best. former governor. sununu: he's doing fine and should be home next weekend. the evidence is that he does have a heart, that is good news. [laughter] john: who knew. john sununu, thank you. the must entitled -- enticing thing in politics, donald trump versus fox news after this. ♪

♪ mark: and now, donald trump versus megyn kelly. let's walk through the brief history of the last 20 hours. she came back from vacation, did her talk show, and apparently she had a big audience including mr. trump, who tweeted and retweeted a sharknado of criticism. all aimed at kelly. trump also quoted some guy who called kelly a bimbo. that got 850 retweets. today the fox news team went on twitter and defended kelly. the head fox news said, although he rarely apologizes, he pointed out he won the prestigious corn kernel poll. if the on track to beat them

again? john: what was very striking today was the way in which not just roger fired back, but the way in which a lot of people in fox news on twitter, using very similar language. kristen powers, dana perino, a lot of people all saying, this must stop to trump. which you didn't have before. it feels like there was a directive that went out. we get the collectivity of corporate foxnews and on-air foxnews, they are all being marshaled to rise up. that is more of a problem, that could be -- in the end, donald trump, republican voters watch fox. if there's some kind of retribution or freezeout happening, some way in which the company goes against trump, it's a problem for him.

mark: but here's the thing, if donald trump calls sean hannity or megyn kelly, or anyone else, they put them on the air. the law of supply and demand, until they are willing to say, you are saying something so inappropriate we are not putting you on the air, he wins. john: i see that. it cannot be good in the long run. donald trump becoming the nominee, becoming the president of the united states, beating up on a highly qualified, highly intelligent, highly successful woman. this cannot be the way to win. that cannot be. calling a woman like megyn kelly bimbo repeatedly in public, taking that fight over, cannot be a way to win. mark: he has said a lot worse. but in trump's corner here, people see him as strong.

what is the most counterintuitive thing, for republicans to stand up to foxnews and still be on the air. john: there has to be another way. this is a thing that has a limited shelf life. this kind of attack. mark: what if he had not retweeted the bimbo? john: would have been better. it's just, i think that is the thing they are reacting to more than anything. it's one thing to say i don't like her. mark: his other thing where he shows strength. look at lifecycle and this cycle, other republicans were worrying about not catering to fox. if they did not give first interviews, they would be punished. trump goes on cnn, msnbc, coming on with us tomorrow, he does whatever he wants. john: he's bigger than fox. mark: mitt romney was not bigger. john: no republican in the last cycle is bigger and in this cycle either. he's only one bigger than fox as a force right now, and i is a powerful place to be, no doubt. mark: i think he's on track to beat them. i think they are loyal to megyn kelly and understandably so. but, their loyalty to her, let's see how far it extends. if he said that about a colleague of yours, which he put -- would you put him on your show?

john: he may win the battle, but i don't think he wins the war. as we said, donald trump will join us tomorrow. we will be doing this program live from trump tower. more details after the break. ♪

♪ john: we are live 24/7 on bloomberg politics.com. we are on television twice a day. mark: tomorrow, we are at the tower life with a donald trump interview on this program. don't miss that. until then, for all you viewers and is listening on the radio, we say to you with a deep bow,

sayonara. ♪

emily: i'm emily chang. this is bloomberg west. salesforce ceo tells me he has seen danger ahead for unicorns. as netflix shares bounce, tech leaders fireback on immigration. first to our lead.