mark: i am mark halperin. john: all respect to mark cuban, you were no longer the biggest character in a dallas. ♪ good boy. hashanah.ted rosh trump in the $18 trillion man. the first tv ad in veiled by the club, and they plan to spend more than $8 million airing it in iowa. but if you don't live in the hawkeye state, this is what that

particular 1% will seek. >> which presidential candidate supports higher taxes, national health care, and the wall street bailouts? it's donald trump. mr. trump: in many cases i identify as a democrat. >> mr. trump likes to put ideas "mr. tell it like it is." he is just playing a sport -- playing us for chumps. trump, just another politician. mark, arp didn't countdown clock -- our patented countdown clock shows we are just a short time away from the gop debate. can trump be stopped? the question i have for you is -- can trump be stopped and if so, how? mark: i don't think you'll be stopped tomorrow night. there are many on the conservative side, establishment

side who wanted trump stopped. who look for every piece of potential data that suggest he is going down. i think people is glad that club for growth is going up in a group that recently asked trump for $1 million, it's not going to bring him down i think. twoblican strategists think things may bring them down -- one is saying that he is just like any other politician, and two, saying that he is a liberal. john: i like you coincidently called it a request for one of dollars. donald trump does not agree with you about any coincidence there. i don't agree that calling donald trump not a real conservative is the way to go. he has this broad ideological coalition, as the new york times reported a few weeks ago. he has moderates, establishment people, tea party people, i don't think the ideological route is the way to do it.

it's something that he will do to himself. mark: the forces that have done research on focus groups. they agree with that point, saying it trump is a liberal does not peel away his support. it's going to be hard to take it down. the worries some republicans trumpis that by the time has wanted some early contests and kept that broad coalition. john: what will bring him down is if he is shown to just not know enough of the presidency to qualify for the commander-in-chief threshold. mark: donald trump the destroyer is having a rally, literally, on the deck of a battleship tonight in los angeles. the aptly named uss iowa. we will be looking to see if he sounds at all to conventional presidential candidate. last night in dallas, trump had a big rally. something caught our ear. he showed some flashes of sounding almost like a normal candidate. don't get me wrong, most of the hour-long speech was pure

distilled trump. but listen to the subtleties of these lines that make it seem like a trump may be changing ever so slightly. mr. trump: we are a dumping ground for the rest of the world. we are a dumping ground. we have to straighten out our act. we are going to have a great country. we're going to have a greater border. we're going to have a border that is a real border. the whole world hates us. china hates us, russia hates us, mexico hates us, japan hates us. everybody hates us and they are all winning. i will make it so we are doing better with these countries. we're going to replace it and get something good. repeal it, replace it, get something great. our vets are our greatest people. we're going to take care of our vets. we're going to fight hard. we're going to negotiate tough. we're going to do fantastically well. we're going to put our people

back to work. you are going to be, if i'm elected president, so proud of your country again. [applause] mark: we know trump so far has been a successful unconventional candidate. john, bc getting better at the candidacy in any conventional way? john: i don't know if he is getting better. there are flashes of conventionality, as you said. when i watched that speech i was amazed by the number of things that i felt like i had heard before. that is a standard practice of most politicians on the stump. trump's is nowhere near that. but you are starting to hear some addition and some phrases and themes that any other republican candidate would easily voice, especially stuff about obamacare. he is a little bit more edging into conventionality. i still think the main attraction is the unconventional stuff. mark: without a doubt. they are never going to try and make trump not be trump.

but if he shows more discipline, putting a few more lines in there, that some people not currently in this coalition could seize on. he could broaden his appeal. trump is a smart guy. as he goes out and gives speeches, he may be honing it, although most of it was understood. john: i used to compare it back in 1986 when pat buchanan used to speak, comparing him to the grateful dead. the song sounded basically the same, but you hear these tiny differences, tiny bits of the variance. trump could had more in that direction, where the greatest someare still there, but things are a little bit new and more conventional at the same time. super john ellis, bush's pac, is out with a new tv ad in iowa, new hampshire, and as soon south carolina that promotes his record as governor of florida. >> the state was florida, the

governor was jeb bush. proven conservative, real results. jeb. at the same time, jeb's official campaign shows a video of him speaking spanish and his wife speaking english. spanish] >> we have celebrations with the family. we keep our traditions. our faith, friends and family. john: mark, in the past couple months, jeb bush has been beaten

bloody by this campaign. to the messages in these ad/videos constitute the road to recovery for this man? mark: this is not an audible reaction to jump. -- two trump. this is what they have been planning in his campaign all along. they coordinated before the separation of the two entities. the super pac would tell people about the jeb bush gubernatorial record in florida as a conservative reformer with results, and that the campaign would focus on his personal story. if there is a path for jeb bush, and i think there is, they're going to have to burn these messages in. everybody agrees that voters still don't know. jeb bush was a conservative government with a lot of success, and he has this family story. john: there are a lot of other campaigns. you look at what is happened with jeb. the problem isn't that jeb isn't a conservative, the problem is jeb. the problem is how he is performed in the stump.

he seems like a candidate who doesn't really want to be president. that is not something that any number of tv ads is going to solve. mark: to go back to our first topic. at some point, when jeb bush is more established, that super pac will have to take out some of their rivals, including. trump not yet though. john: coming up, round two of the replica and debate. we go to this videotape after this word from our sponsors.

♪ everyone is excited for the cnn debate. the best way to prepare for it is to watch the tape of the previous game, just like they do in the nfl to figure out what works and what didn't for the players on the field. let's figure out how rand paul went after donald trump. paul: the republican party

has been fighting against the single payer system for a decade. i think you're on the wrong side of this if your are going for sigel payor. -- for single-payer. mr. trump: you're having a hard time hearing me tonight. john: when you watch that, what do you learn from it? mark: that you have to take him on in the blood of the debate. interims terms of the moderators wanting to exhibit control, and in terms of trump's ability to lash back at the rules, take them on when you're confident that moderators will give you time to get out the last word. in this case, trump got the last word. i don't think rand laid a glove on him. john: there is a stature gap in terms of rand paul, who seems small. compared to donald trump it will have to be someone a little bigger on that stage, someone who poses a more significant challenge to him. someone like ben carson, if he decided to go that route. john kasich or something else. somebody that can go toe to toe

with trump. mark: the one exception is cary fiorina, i think the cnn moderators will get into the bloodlust that a lot of media has, that they want to see a trump-fiorina face-off. john: let's look at the breakout stars of the first debate, which is john kasich, owning a unpopular decision that he made as governor. john kasich: i had an opportunity to bring resources back to ohio, to do what? to treat the mentally ill. keepsts $22,500 a year to them in prison. i would rather give them medication so they could live a decent life. medicaid is going at the one of the lowest rates in the country. finally we went from 8 billion in the whole to $2 billion in the black. we have grown 350,000 jobs. [applause] john: mark, there is no doubt part of the reason that went down so well is because it was in cleveland, ohio, john

kasich's state. if you have a choice between embracing hanging a lantern on your problems, or disowning the previous stance, this is the right way to go. i think it worked for kasich and it can work for others. mark: it worked because it was stylistically. it was because he was comfortable. he wasn't a deer in the headlights, he wasn't backpedaling or trying to update. there are those like walker, bush can learn from him. when they are pressed, they look less comfortable than he did. john: you have to be less sheepish. yeah man, i did that thing. here is why i did it, let's agree to disagree. that is the only way to go, i think. finally, it wasn't all fireworks in cleveland. here's one of the most soft-spoken candidates, then carson, now on the rising every poll, made it work. carson: the most

important thing is having a brain and being able to figure things out and learn them very rapidly. [applause] experience comes from a large number of different arenas. america became a great nation early on because it was flooded with politicians, but because it was flooded with people who understood the value of personal responsibility, hard work, creativity, innovation. and that is what will get us on the right track now as well. [applause] john: mark, i will confess when i saw that in cleveland, i thought it was ineffective and low-energy. i wrote so at the time. i still feel the same way. i find it baffling in some way that dr. carson has risen on the back of that performance. what say you? mark: person has his own unique style. if any other candidate on that's age spoke in that style, they would get absolutely paned. -- panned.

about this engaged debate about why trump is doing so well. carson in some ways is even more of a mystery to those in politics. i hear from it all the time, "i don't get it." i don't think anybody else can borrow that style. john: can you imagine if jeb bush, another "low energy" candidate decided to go that route? mark: it would be campaign-ending. john: rock 'n roll -- david brock will tell us about his new book about hillary clinton and the clinton phenomena after the break. ♪

mark: it's like footage from an old-time baseball game. our guest is david brock, whose book is called "killing the m essenger."

thank you for coming back on the show. i'll ask you a question that is not about the book to start off. you have a book -- you have a group that is called "correct the record" who sent an e-mail to the huffington post attacking ernie sanders. ders,tacking bernie san linking him to hugo chavez, suggesting that he was sympathetic to hezbollah. senator sanders came back with this statement, saying it's the kind of onslaught i expected to see from the koch brothers. how do you respond to that? david: we are doing due diligence on secretary hunton's opponents. -- secretary clinton's opponents. we move a lot of media in the round in the press about republicans and about 63 clinton, a democratic primary opponent. i don't think there is anything new or surprising about this. john: senator sanders did not say a negative word about

hillary clinton is a part. illusory clinton --hillary clinton has not said something negative about senator sanders. why compare him to these unsavory folks? issuesthere are three that both senator clinton and senator sanders are campaigning on successfully. you're going to have to draw some contrasts. john: do you think bernie sanders resembles hugo chavez? david: the research doesn't say that, no. john: but by raising the comparison, it seems you are saying that. david: the research is fact-based, people can look at it and weight it. john: is that the beginning -- do you see it as your role to do the dirty work for the clinton campaign that they don't want to do against bernie sanders directly? david: this is no dirty work-- john: hugo chavez is pretty

dirty work. david: it's just the process. it's a democratic process that we are going to go through. john: what is the contrast you are drawing without e-mail? not parts of senator sanders -- we are putting out parts of senator sanders'record. most of my book is about the vehicle rich of hillary clinton. sometimes i do the media's homework for them. we supply research and facts. mark: what is the contrast? you are saying, what about bernie sanders compared to hillary clinton with that e-mail? david: i am for greater scrutiny of those that they are doing to hillary clinton. bernie sanders is doing well in the primaries. i don't hear much coverage of his substantive record. where's the investigation of donald trump's finances? john: the last time you were on this show -- marquis talking to

you about hillary clinton's e-mails. "hillary clinton handled her e-mails perfectly." secretary clinton has now apologized for her handling of the e-mails. my question is whether you still believe that she handled her e-mails perfectly, even when she seems to admit that she did not. david: that was either day 2 or 3 what i consider to be a phony scandal. we are now six months into it. i can speak for myself. i never thought we would be six months into it and still be talking about e-mail, e-mail, e-mail. there are two answers. substantively, it is clear she followed the law. the department of justice now agrees with me. she has followed president and was --she has followed precedent . here is what i was wrong about -- what was not perfect, was the politics of it. my book tries to predict a lot

of the republican playbook. but even this would have surprised me. clearly i didn't think it would be as successful as they happen and actually raising concerns that are real-- john: but think what you just said, that it was not handled right is the politics. are you saying that the campaign mishandled this issue in terms of comedic asian? -- in terms of communication? david: no, i'm meaning she handled it on the substance, and when i said it was perfect, i didn't realize it would be handled in this way. clearly she thought it was easier to use the one device that wasn't the best choice. mark: i'm desperate to talk to you about your book. but i still want to down this thing you said about bernie sanders. i agree that he needs more scrutiny. i agree that he has gotten less than hillary clinton. what was that message you are kind to send about bernie sanders?

what are those lists of names, those associations, what do you want people to take away from that? david: mark, when a democratic strategist talk about their strategy, nothing drives me crazy or. i'm not going to talk about the framing or the thought behind it. john: you said the point of it was to make a contrast. what is the contrast? david: i am the facts out and you can make your conclusion. john: you're putting this research outfit -- i injured to provide a contrast, what is that contrast? a" and sanders is "b." what is a and b? mark: bernie sanders is upset by that e-mail. do you want to apologize to him? david: this is just standard opposition research. mark: in the book you write about what happens with your party's nominee, john kerry, the so-called swift boating. -- swift voting.

you claimed that he didn't defend himself and up. -- defend himself enough. would you say that you and clinton have not defended yourselves in on this e-mail issue? david: we have done everything we can to defend her on those e-mails. it is not breaking through -- it is an upload klein. it is a hard slog. -- it is an uphill climb. john: you write about media organizations about animus towards the clintons, and there has been forever. you say she can be a unifying figure. why, if there is so much institutional animus, if she is president of the u.s., are we not in for more bitterness and vitriol, the kind that you did agnose inhabiting in the last 20 years? about the talking

endless within the new york times. i believe she is a unifying figure for the democratic party. she has a history of working across the aisle with republicans on certain issues in the senate. she is a clear aggressive champion for the democratic party. that is why i write in the book that i don't necessarily see so much logic in a significant primary challenge to her. she has been there on these issues. i wrote a book 20 years ago about her passionate progressive advocacy. you know the story. way back. john: her to imagine a world where the numeral -- hard to imagine a world where the new york times and the liberal hate out andare backing giving her time to govern. david: i just hope we get some fair cover. john: david brock, thank you. thebook is called "killing messenger." we will be right back. david: thanks a lot. john: thank you. ♪

john: tuning it tomorrow,

everyone. we have a one-hour special at the reagan library in california. mark: until tomorrow, thanks for watching. we will see you from california. sayonara. ♪

alix: we are moments away from the closing bell. u.s. stocks rally in the s&p 500 heading for its highest close since august 28. joe: the question is what you miss. we sit down with the chief economist at goldman sachs to talk about what is that they are -- is at stake. alix: the past is prologue. what happened the last three times the fed raised rates.