john: i'm john heilemann. mark: can i mark halperin. -- and i mark halperin. john: on the show tonight, and two dudes in manhattan and i don't mean us. candidatesto legacy about their messages and whether they can secure their party's nominations. hillary clinton and jeb bush are both in iowa today.

her campaign is running an ad on cable tv, like we are getting it now, criticizing the congressman from california over his benghazi comments. >> the republicans finally admitted -- >> investigating benghazi was created to destroy her candidacy. >> republicans have spent millions attacking hillary because she is fighting for everything they oppose, from a portable health care people pay. she will never stop fighting for you and republicans know it. mark: on the offense there on benghazi. clinton is also drawing a line on gun policy. she is also previewing her proposal on financial regulations. she drove both those messages today in davenport, iowa. risk, anden ago after

sometimes risk is associated with bigness in a bank. sometimes it can be in an insurance company. sometimes it could be in the shadow banking system. i am in ago after what i think are the real problems, not the problems of the past. what i am interested in is stopping some the night this from happening again. that is my goal. i am really tired of people in public life saying our thoughts and prayers are what families whose children are murdered in s chools, people killed doing bible study are going to movies -- we can't tolerate that. this doesn't just happen, this is not stuff that happens, we let it happen, and we have to act. those people who should not have guns in the first place. mark: she is talking about gun control, about benghazi, financial regulation, hinting that she may have a position soon on the new trade deal. four messages in one day. the canada handbook says pick a message and drive it.

is it smart for her to be driving semi messages in one? swarm.she has been on defense for so long and now she has the opportunity to be on offense. she should go for it on every level. flood it and make people cover every eac piece. mark: she has a big enough operation in brooklyn and she is still versed enough in policy that she can do multiple things at once, and i agree, the more she gets out there hitting different target audiences the harder it is for republicans to stop her. three of these four messages are good for her. thing -- she can hide in a basket of these others. john: she agreed with bernanke today, saying that more people should have gone to jail. she is at that place where she has outflanked to bernie on the left on guns.

two,y candidate number john ellis bush, also in iowa, is sticking to his message that he was a peachy keen fabulous governor of florida. the source of optimism i have is because i know the american people and its ability to innovate, to create, to disrupt -- there is no way that barack obama or the progressive liberals in washington can take away the bigness of this place. >> look at the state of affairs in washington, d.c. now. think of how incompetent and corrupt washington, d.c. is. the president is never held to account, always blame somebody else, and the result is people do not believe their government works for them. that doesn't mean it can't be the way it should be. becauseow to do this when i was governor we turn the system upside down. what we have to do is stop saying how angry we are and when

the election so we can fix it. leadership means you have to be all in. it is not about talking, it is about doing. it is about rolling your sleeves up and working with people to improve the chance for people to rise up. john: the campaign, the super pac, once people realize what his record was like, that he was a real conservative with all the money they have to broadcast that message, he would begin to rise. how's that working for him ? mark: i think this is too abstract. you talk to people in florida, the roll up the sleeves thing, i don't think they will ever really make the lord a record tangible unless they link it to what he will do as president. that video doesn't say anything tangible. knowledge, there

is in one calling card issue from florida. you don't have what scott walker had which wasn't enough. it is not budget cutting. mark: it could be. at this point but i have not walked away with a sense -- oh, yes, this is what he did in florida, that was the signature issue. john:'s brother when he ran talked about his texas resident and was very specific. juvenile justice reform, education reform. i'm amazed at how remote it still is. rolling up your sleeves is not something voters necessarily are looking for. after the legacy candidate, there is talk now about the ultimate non-legacy candidate, ben carson, doctor and republican. he joined the ladies on "the view" today. taxes,ed about guns and as well as evolution and reproductive rights. >> you sort of feel that there

is not a war on women, but there may be a war on what is inside of women? >> yeah, and babies. we are killing babies. -- i think people can probably understand -- in my case, i spent my entire career trying to preserve life. even operating on babies in the womb, operating on my long sometimes on premature babies, and i get to meet those people when they are adults. productive adults. there is no way you can convince me that they are not important. >> i understand, i just want to ask you this -- have you met with the women who have to make these horrendous decisions when they have to make them of whether or not they can bring a child into the world? we talk about bringing children into the world all the time, but periodically, some women feel -- i just can't.

are you empathetic to them? >> very empathetic. what i have said is that this is a job for us in the private sector. what we need to do is make sure that we provide adequate day care centers for these mothers so that they can get their ged -- >> you are assuming that these are mothers who aren't educated. am talking about women -- >> like tell you a fact. thosect is that a lot of young girls having babies out of wedlock, when they have their first -- they stop their education and that child is four times as likely to grow up in poverty. we has a society have an obligation to do what is necessary to stop that cycle. microevolution versus macro evolution are two different things.

>> women have the time for this conversation. -- we don't have the time for this conversation. >> we are talking about natural selection versus microevolution. yes, i believe organisms have an ability to adapt to their environment. that isutionists say proof positive of evolution -- i say it is proof positive of an intelligent creator who gave his creatures the ability to a debt to their environment. >> but that is your faith. >> and i have said -- >> can you believe in both? >> people are allowed to believe -- some people believe that something came from nothing, and they believed it exploded, in order. i don't denigrate people who believe that. mark: around the office we all found that compelling television, but is it in his interest to do a show like "the view?"

john: he is not going to win the whoopi goldberg prize. it was noted how many big applauses he got. i think if ben carson wants to take ager, wants to message that is catching fire with a lot of activists and a lot of republicans and wants to grow that group and become a national phenomenon, who can stand toe to toe with donald trump, you have to do things like this. mark: i think it was a compelling appearance. he brought his wife and she was compelling. the only thing is -- i don't understand what his message was. john: can you ever? mark: was he doing a sister soldier moment? whatever the curious thing is that holds appeal, it was all on display. they were having a coherent debate but not a message. mark: i want to see him as a

guest on "weekend update." lauren, if you are listening. john: coming up, mark: takes manhattan. -- coming up, marco takes manhattan. ♪

john: this morning, marco rubio went on to talk shows, first on "the today show," where he was asked about his attendance record. >> the majority of the job is not walking onto the senate floor and lifting her finger on a noncontroversial issue. the majority of the work is consistent service to committee work. when you run for president, there are times when you are not going to be there. we have canceled events and traveled across the country to make votes, especially if we can

make a difference -- >> so you don't think you are putting your ambitions above the people. >> my ambitions aren't for me, therefore the country in florida. john: dealing with matt lauer, across the street, another candidate asked about his relationship with jeb bush. >> he said don't make a mistake -- marco rubio and governor bush hate each other's guts. you are running against your mentor. what is the reality? >> that is not true. i have tremendous admiration for him. there are a lot of other people and i am running for president and ultimately voters will decide. john: the main event was his affirmation speech at civic call where he focused on the american people and what he called the sharing economy. he talked about government regulation and made a reference to america's a writ ride on video rentals store. >> the figure way to block an

innovative competitor is to create a regulatory impediment to that competitor. -- i always use the example -- imagine blockbuster video, if they had convinced the federal government to pass a regulation saying in order to rent movies you must come into a physical store and show your id, because we want to prevent underage kids from renting radar movies. that is the kind of mentality. they find a public safety argument and they use it to create a roadblock that the innovator can't meet. rubio isk, marco clearly the candidate of the moment in the non-grassroots, anti-establishment, non-anger part of the party. he is the one that has the hot hand. let's talk about why that is,

and what he did today here in new york and how it plays into that. marco he is new, he is getting him,r known, people like and although he has a lot of potential, when he is on this message about the new economy, people find it compelling. his opponents will say it is deep, thelf-inch people find it compelling. john: opponents would say the same thing -- bill clinton's dead in 1994. if you want to be the generational avatar of the republican party, new, fresh, changed, it is not just foreign policy. i think it is good politics, good economics, to latch on to something that syas innovation in a way that lot of consumers understand and like. mark: the thing with matt lauer, this is where his opponents have talked about it publicly. rubio is ao say that

bad public servant, not experienced, doesn't take his job seriously. i think right now -- this is the battle to define marco rubio. will it be defined as wise beyond his years, knowledgeable, or a young man in a hurry who's not ready to be president? i think there is nothing more important in the race for the white house now then who wins battle. and it is three on one. those same arguments are made about barack obama in 2008 and it didn't matter. it may matter more this time, because republicans for whom obama is anathema, they don't want that. looking for the future is a huge asset in any nomination. rubio right now because of that indicates that he is the only candidate in the establishment

bracket who can also play with tea party voters. he has the possibility of doing something a lot of the others don't. whilethe other thing is he did engage with trump he is largely turning the other cheek against bush and kasich. is that going to be something he can sustain? with paid media or with his own rhetoric, does he have to come back? the theory of the rubio campaign is lay low, don't be involved in skirmishes. but they will come after him. john: it is going to be hard to not respond. we will be right back. inside the battle for power on capitol hill. ♪

mark: our guest is mick mulvaney

from south carolina, joining us from capitol hill. the familiar site for anyone who watches television. thanks for joining us. i will start by saying that is a great tie. congressman, let's talk about your state and the flooding their. what is the latest? what needs to happen next to help the people of south carolina? >> what we need is for the rain to stop, which stopped today. 24 inches of rain in charleston in about 48 hours. rain in colombia is not coming down river to charleston. we are told that they won't crest until saturday. we have public safety things to deal with, we have to get some people out of harms way, we have roads and bridges that are unsafe. it is pretty rugged. it is a tough time to be in south carolina, will pray now we just need the rain to stop. john: your party is in the

middle of a leadership contest that has got more interesting than your party would have wanted it, with kevin mccarthy's comment about benghazi. give us a sense of what you think the political consequences of that comment are when all is said and done, both for the committee political and legal effectiveness and mccarthy's chances of being speaker. >> if you go back and watch what he said, i don't think it was nearly as bad as folks made it out to be. i think it is probably more damaging to kevin individually than it is to the committee. i am somewhat biased because it is run by a friend of mine, but i think they have done everything possible to dispel the idea that it was political. that actions may speak louder than words in this town. we have a hearing coming up at the end of october and i think the committee will be judged by the work product that it puts out.

kevin on the other hand is dealing with challenges as he prepares to meet with the supreme caucus. congressmanid mccarthy say that differs from what he is trade as saying? i saw that he admitted it was political but it is not true. the answer was given in question to "are you fighting?" the simply came out and said one of our jobs is oversight and one of the things we need to do was hold the president accountable for how he runs the presidency. firm oversight on benghazi is what we are supposed to do. mark: that is not what he said. he was asked what the college once were and he said we did this and our political numbers went down. well, he admitted correlation. i don't think he said it to drive numbers down. mark: he was asked what has been accomplished. thing withre is a

complex -- we did this committee and our numbers went down. i want to be the horse to death, but it seems to me that part of what is going on now is you all are trying to circle the wagons around mr. mccarthy, when the reality is he said something pretty straightforward. >> i don't think so. i think he misspoke, i don't think he believes it was politically motivated. i do think he has ever use mrs. clinton's name -- did he miss big or was he mischaracterized? >> a little bit of both. you talk all day, you are going to be mischaracterized. but i don't think it is the end of the committee. john: do you think that he will be speaker or not? >> i think it is very much still up in the air. kevin doesn't have 218 votes, which is what he needs. he is speaking with the caucus are mr. webster and

mr. chaffetz. he is the leader in the vote tally. john: you are an endorser of rand paul. can you give us a sense of how concerned you more about the state of his campaign? people think he is close to out of the race. >> yeah. i spent the day with him in south carolina. we stopped by the side of the road twice to eat. 30 people walked up and said hi, i like what you're doing. polling a very low numbers -- are you telling me that john kasich could walk through an airport or a barbecue joint in south carolina and anyone would know who he is? i spoke to 600 people at uc south carolina -- raise your hand if you have been -- i am --

you saying that the polls and accurately state rand paul support, that he is actually a front runner? we all know wealut are having difficulty finding people to vote. all i know is what i see in the state, and what i see is that rand paul is meeting new people other the party, and anti-establishment candidates are not. he is bringing new people into the party. african-americans, hispanics, and it is not on a watered-down message. mulvaney, thank you so much. we will have you back soon. we will be right back. ♪

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