announcer: from our studios in new york city, this is "charlie rose." charlie: megyn kelly is here. she anchors "the kelly file." she led the gop debate on fox news. it was viewed by a record 24 million people. her tough questioning of donald trump provoked a public feud that has lasted four months. -- for months. the gop front runner directed insults at her.

roger ailes had to intervene. megyn celebrates the second anniversary of her show this month as she continues to lead the 2016 election coverage. here is a look at some memorable moments of her at work. megyn: in your op-ed, you write, "rarely has a u.s. president been so wrong about so much at the expense of so many." but time and time again, history has proven that you got it wrong in iraq, sir. you said there was no doubt of saddam hussein having weapons of mass destruction. who are you to potentially endanger the lives of those individuals who may have been in around the shelling? >> i did not say it was illegal. megyn: it is so much bigger than that. you could have murdered somebody with those bombs. >> and we didn't. but actually the people that were conducting the war in vietnam did murder people. megyn: does that make yourself a murderer as well? on the subject of iraq, very controversial, knowing what we know now, would you have

authorize the invasion? >> i would have, and so would hillary clinton. and so what if almost anybody that was confronted with the intelligence they got. in retrospect, the intelligence that everybody saw that the world saw not just the united states was faulty. megyn: mr. trump, one of the people things people like about you is you speak your mind and you not use a politician's filter. it is not without a downside, when it comes to women. you called women you do not like fat pigs, blobs and disgusting animals. mr. trump: only rosie o'donnell. megyn: no, it wasn't. you've heard your critics. they say -- we covered it -- your critics say you are a sinner. you were married four times, twice to the same man, but divorced three times. that you had an affair while married. that you had children out of wedlock.

and they look at you and say, who are you to judge others? charlie: wow. define the kelly style. megyn: uh, i think fearless. i try to be fearless when i go out there on that set. i am not necessarily so in my real life. i try to be fair and balanced. i try not to take any bull. i do not allow talking points because i feel i'm an advocate for no one except for my viewers. if it is going to tick off my guest, i'm going to try to get to my talking points. the number one goal when i go out for every night, it is like cool water over a hot brain. we tackle difficult subjects. these are people who work or spend the day looking after their kids and they do not have a lot of time to read the news all day. so they have to digest complex subjects in record time. they do not want to have to rewind in order to understand

the broadcast. if i can take those complex matters, break them down into small digestible bits and be their advocates to keep people on point, not go off into the talking points, not spin, stay relevant, then i have done my job. charlie: when you look at the preparation you do, what you looking for? megyn: i have a team of people who help me now. that was new. when i got to primetime, they gave me staff, which was wonderful. in the daytime, you do not have staff. i work with my executive producer and our editorial producer early in the morning to come up with what we think is the news of the day. yes. so, our editorial producer has scanned the landscape. we have done our reading in. we talk about, what do we think the big story is today? and then later in the afternoon, we have a conference call and come up with our draft rundowns. this is our lead, this is our guest. and then by the time i get in

and start in, it is probably -- i arrive at the studio around 3:30 and i start actually reading the packets the producers have given me in the 5:00 hour. they've done all that work prior to that. so i have it condensed into this nice packet. and that is all i do. from 5:00 until 9:00, i read as much as i possibly can. charlie: what time do you get home? megyn: after midnight. once the show is over, i have a meeting with my team. what worked, what did not work. then i go back to my desk and it is shangri-la. my team has left. my kids are asleep. my husband calls me every night. we have a chat about the show, about the kids, our evenings because we do not get to spend our evenings together. then, after that, i can answer all the e-mails i haven't answered and do some phone calls and read that i want to read for pleasure. i love that time. charlie: is this what you've always wanted to do, even though you went to law school and became a trial lawyer?

was journalism, i know it was an interest, was it what you thought might be perfect for me? megyn: originally, yes. when i was in 10th grade, i took an aptitude test. and you know you just check this is what i am like and this is what interest me. it said i should become a journalist. so i did a one day internship, following a guy around at the albany times union. i loved it. it was so exciting to be in on the conversations he is having with a politicians and so on. so, i said this is for me. so i applied to the syracuse newhouse school. i wanted to go to syracuse my whole life. my father had taught there. i applied and they rejected me. charlie: why? megyn: they did not believe i had any feature in broadcast journalism. and said no. so i went to the maxwell school at syracuse. decided i would be a good district attorney -- a prosecutor. when i went to law school, suddenly i realized i am in law

school. i have debt. if i take a job with the manhattan da, i will be making $30,000 a year. you had to live in the borough in which are a prosecutor. you have manhattan rent with $130,000 in debt. that math i got. charlie: so you ended up at jones day where you were a trial attorney. at some point you worked yourself to near exhaustion. because of ambition? because of what? megyn: that is an interesting question. nobody ever asked me before, why? the law is a jealous mistress and it demands much of those who practice it. but i do believe it is baked into my personality to be an over prepare-er and to for -- throw myself into whatever project i'm doing. and fact, when i was making the

switch from journalism, from law to journalism, i said to myself, whatever profession you pick next, you better make sure it is something that can have an end at the end of the day. law does not. there is always another brief you can write. one of the things i love about journalism is this will literally be yesterday's news tomorrow. and you can turn the page. charlie: every day it is fresh. megyn: it is very rare you will do an all nighter to prepare for tomorrow's news because it has not happened yet. that has worked out well for someone like me who did many all night is when i practice law because there was always more to learn. charlie: so, to look at your life, it seems to me there are two significant events. one, the law and leaving the law and the other was the death of your father when you were 15. megyn: yeah. that was unexpected. he was not sick. he had a massive heart attack 10 days before christmas in 1985. he was 45 years old.

i was 15. and he dropped dead in our home next to the christmas tree. my mother and i were both home. my sister was home. the ambulance came and they tried to revive him and couldn't. my brother was in college nearby. he came to the hospital. things would never be the same again. it was in no way something we anticipated. he had not had heart problems. we hadn't had anybody in our family except the grandparents pass away. and my mother was 44 years old, which is my age now, and found herself a widow. and it did change -- with three kids, two in college, and i was a sophomore in high school at the time. so she used my dad's insurance money to pay for our college education. and continued working as a nurse. but it was hard. it was life-changing in many ways, and the downsides are

probably obvious. to your viewers. but there was a silver lining to that tragedy. and i've thought a lot about it. i believe that it has made me keenly aware of my own mortality. and it has led me to make better choices for myself in the 30 years, going on 30 years i've had since his death. charlie: for example? megyn: i do not think i would've made the switch out of my legal job had it not been for that awareness. that time is passing me by. and it will end. you really need to make the best choices for yourself or your here, as hard as that maybe. what i realized after nine years of practicing law, just because you're good at something does not mean it makes you happy. it was a tough realization. when you practice law or do any profession that you spent a lot of time in, it becomes part of your identity.

your ego gets linked to it. but i understood i was not happy. i needed to make a change. i also had a first husband whom i was married to for four years. he is a dear man. we are still friends to this day. but it was another area that i took an honest look at when i was changing my life to ask whether this is what i wanted forever more. and we wound up divorcing. we're still friends. he remarried and has kids. i remarried and had kids. but i do not think i would've necessarily found the courage to do those things had i not had that experience with my father. charlie: i read a story about you in which after you became first in reporting in washington, becoming anchor and then becoming prime time, a choice spot on cable television, especially at fox, that roger ailes said you have got to be more vulnerable. what was that about?

megyn: well, he called me into his office not long after i joined fox. i was still reporting from d.c. bureau as a general reporter. and he said, love the whole package. love the look, love the smarts, love the presentation. now who is the real you? and i was completely taken aback. what you mean? this is me. this is who i am. typical roger, he did not buy it. he knew it was not exactly an act but a defensive shield. and he said, look, the viewers can smell a phony from a mile away. so i encourage you to be more vulnerable and take more risks. i know you are afraid of failure, but failure is ok. if you make a mistake, own up to it and not only will it not hurt your credibility with the viewers, it will gain you

credibility. and i think, i was at a point in my life where i was ready to hear that. i think you can hear that advice and not act on it, but i was coming into my own at that moment. and i was ready to hear it. i did shed a lot of those layers and went forth unafraid. charlie: it is a special relationship between you and roger ailes? he takes a lot of credit for giving you the opportunity. he gives you more credit because you are the one who is outfront. define the relationship. megyn: he is absolutely a mentor, also a friend. he is my boss. we are not equal. but i depend on him for friendship and sane, honest advice. he will give it to me. never with respect to news coverage.

people thinks that roger ailes is a republican operative. that is all bs. never once in my 11 years has he told me how to cover a story. but he does give you advice on your personal life, on who you are and how you are transmitting on television, like even down to little things. when i first started, he would say, it is to rapidfire. take some pauses. slow down from time to time. he was right about that. he just has this x-ray vision into your soul, and he has a way of knowing what you need. if you need to be built up, he can do that. if you need to be checked on your ego, he can do that. and he has so many great stories, war stories of his years on this planet. he delivers it with gentle aplomb. charlie: can you imagine going to into his office and saying, i've decided to leave, i accepted an offer somewhere else? megyn: that would be a tough conversation to have.

i mean, i'm not saying i would never leave. i would have to look at what ever opportunity came your way. but i really care about fox and i care about roger. and he has been nothing but good to me. and he has been very loyal. and he has had my back. and he has looked out for me. those moments -- the debate moment, why did i have that? because he put me in that position. he trusted me. charlie: how did he counsel you when donald said the things he said? megyn: i actually spoke with roger every day during that whole dustup. there was some reporting that he had abandoned me. he had chosen somebody over me. charlie: or he needed trump for ratings. megyn: that was not true. roger and i spoke every day for over an hour at times. he wanted to make sure i was ok. he wanted to touch base on what he was thinking and what was happening on his end. he was hearing from trump a lot. i'm sure they were talking a

lot. he wanted to make sure i was ok with what he was thinking about how to handle it. i had an eyeball to eyeball on it. neither one of us wanted a war with donald trump. we did not think that benefited the channel, we did not think it benefited me. and we do not think it benefited donald trump. donald trump would say that now. we wanted to move forward, put a period at the end of it. he was obviously upset. that is fine. he's running for president. it is not a fun business. there are going to be ups and downs. he considered that a downturn, so we wanted to forge forward and try to put it behind us, not pour any more fuel on that fire. charlie: do you want him back on your show? megyn: i'm sure he will come back on eventually. charlie: sooner rather than later? megyn: i think that will be a big moment. right? so, i think we have to handle that just right. i cannot just pop him up there any night, because people will be anticipating that exchange.

i want to ask him all the things people want me to ask them. like, why did you get so upset? how do you feel about how it went in the days after? any regrets? i think we both know the answer. no. i think it would be fascinating for he and i to have the exchange. charlie: what prevents you from having that now? megyn: nothing. i think i will know when the moment is right. charlie: has it been tough for you? megyn: no, i've been ok. charlie: some of the fox viewers who love you have mixed emotions. megyn: i understand that. politics makes people feel so fired up. and they love the candidates they love. and it is very easy to hate and demonize the media. that is ok by me. that is the job i am in. that is what i have chosen. charlie: what was the toughest part for you? megyn: the most bizarre part was

just being the news. as opposed to covering the news. charlie: and the things that were being said by donald. megyn: i'm not going to lie. that was not pleasant to read. it is a tough business. journalism has become a very tough business. charlie: tell me about it. megyn: you have got to have a thick skin. let me tell you, my mother told me early on, and it was reinforced many times over the years, there was a time when i lived in new york when i was young, and just out of law school, and i was not liking it and feeling sorry for myself. and i complained for a day and she let me. i complained for a second day and she let me. i complained on the third day, as she said, stop playing the victim. not attractive. charlie: she has had a significant influence on you, your mother? megyn: very much so. the greatest influence of anyone in my life. charlie: you chose to not respond. megyn: right. charlie: why?

megyn: because we were not in a war with donald trump. he was upset with us. we were not upset with him. again, we just wanted to forge forward. and there was no reason to have a dustup with a presidential candidate whom we needed to cover. he is the subject of our news coverage. so, understanding those dynamics, there was no upside to saying anything more than i did. charlie: what is the status of his relationship with fox today? megyn: i think it is pretty good. what is it, october 7? i think it is pretty good today. ♪

charlie: are you in your own mind different than your fellow anchors? are you somehow a blend? are you somehow more independent? are you somehow in your mind, there is o'reilly, there is hannity, and there is kelly? megyn: i'm certainly different narrator: than o'reilly and hannity in many ways. they are opinion guys. bill will go out there and call for kate's law and say this needs to be drafted in the wake of the murder of kate stanley. hannity is an avowed conservative. i am not an ideologue, nor am i an opinion maker. i'm a newsperson, journalist. charlie: do we even know what party belong to?

megyn: i said i am an independent. i voted both republican and democrat in my life. charlie: is that important to you? you want the viewers to know that i'm different? megyn: it is not important that people know i am an independent. it is important to me that they see the program and they feel that, and they do not feel i have my thumb on the scale for either side. so, it's incidental what my party label is. but i do think not being an ideologue has helped me in my journalism career. i think you can be very fair. take brit hume, one of my mentors. he is a conservative. former white house correspondent. he is a conservative guy. but you could never tell any of his political leanings when he was reporting the news as a straight news journalist. my goal is to go out there and have people not know. i have had many republicans say, yeah, we love your republican principles. and i say, you seem to much.

much. assume too and many liberals pull me aside and say, we know you're one of us. i say, you assume too much. i can call out either side. i feel no allegiance to any of these politicians. charlie: are you surprised that the difficulties that hillary clinton is having? does that go to the demand today for some sense of making sure that the voter appreciates your authenticity, make sure the voters can see the real person in their own judgment? megyn: she is absolutely struggling with that. she is trying to turn it around. charlie: saturday night live. megyn: that was a great appearance. she really hurt herself when she stayed quiet for so long on that e-mail scandal. and i think she thought it was going to go away. she made some attempts to dismiss it as right-wing conspiracy which was complete nonsense. and "the new york times" was

breaking a lot of the stories, and i think she hurt herself. those honesty numbers, the low polling numbers are directly linked to that. i know a lot of people who know her very well, who spend time with her weekly. and to a person, they say she is very charming. she's funny, she has a big personality, she is sincere. she likes to have a cocktail, likes to tell dirty jokes. up until this recent stint of interviews, she does not show any of that. it is not like you can go out there and crack dirty jokes and swing back the vodka martinis on the campaign trail. charlie: does she have a point when she takes on kevin mccarthy in saying in political ads, i was right? we're only doing this for political advantage. they are taking pride in the fact that they think they drove my numbers down because of the benghazi investigation and all the noise about the e-mail. megyn: who would not have expected her to pounce on that statement? charlie: but he said it.

megyn: that is my point. he sunk himself. what a thing to say. we had trey goudy on the show last night. he is chairing the benghazi committee. you can see the disappointment in his face. whatever your feelings are, i think trey goudy believes what he is doing is impartial and not a witch hunt. here he has got kevin mccarthy who openly suggests it was done for political reasons to bring her poll numbers down. now he's walked it back. charlie: he may be speaker of the house. megyn: he has apologized. but it does not change what people heard. it sounded like an admission. charlie: at the time he said it. megyn: i don't blame her for exploiting that comment by mccarthy. charlie: do you believe in fact that there was an effort by republicans to use benghazi to simply get at hillary clinton? megyn: i think so. some have done that. but i also think benghazi is an issue.

and i think they are right to probe. charlie: was about it is a legitimate issue? megyn: if they want to get to the bottom of what was done that night and who was where and what commands are being given and what decisions were being made, so they can figure out why four americans were murdered, then they should do that. these republicans do not feel it has been done at a satisfactory level. hillary clinton, when she gives her testimony, that will be very illuminating. i thought the republicans did a terrible job the first time they had hillary. grandstanding and not asking questions. as a lawyer, it was a waste of time. no one wants to look at you puff out your chest out, trying to prove how tough you are. you are irritating. ask a question. you've got hillary clinton sitting there. they blew that. now, this next time, maybe they

will ask more probative questions. charlie: the love of tough questions comes from where, the sense of being a prosecutor, a kid who always wanted to know answers? megyn: i just think they are more interesting than a bunch of softballs. in part, it is born of necessity on my show. so i will have most of my segments are five minutes long, if i am lucky. charlie: five minutes. so you have got to go to one point. megyn: and nine times out of 10, you do not do that. you try to get three items of news in there. you cannot go in depth. so what you try to do is just go right to the place that hurts. if there's anything controversial -- you cannot build up to it. there can be no whining and dining. you have got to go for it. charlie: having said that, let's do this. the one question you would like to ask of these. people ben carson. megyn: i just had them on the show last night. we talked about his comments on advising people who are in a shooting situation. how they can handle it better. charlie: he basically said he was not talking about those victims. he was suggesting an attitude for the future.

and you believed him or not? do you think he was trying to say, the victims would've been better off -- that is a hard thing to say to the families of victims. megyn: to me, ben carson seems earnest. i take him at his word. charlie: the question i would ask them is? megyn: that he was tried to plan a seed for people. you are asking me just not long after i asked ben carson the one question i wanted to ask him. why should the nation trust you to be its commander in chief when you yourself had made so many mistakes on domestic and foreign policy issues and have a lot to study up on? don't we need a leader who can hit the ground running on foreign-policy from day one? that was my opening question to him during the debate, which people forgot about because they were thinking about the other one. i still think that is a question a lot of people want answered.

yes, that's a legitimate area of inquiry for him, too. charlie: when you look at some of the political disasters and some of the foreign-policy disasters of this country, whether it was vietnam, many perceive it to be, or whether it was iraq, all these cases, the majority of the opinion seems to be they were in many cases some of the most seasoned politicians around. megyn: he says i'm going to get people to advise me. charlie: does he have a point? megyn: i can't tell you. i do think the world is very complex. look at the situation in syria, those who are aligned and not aligned. and try to figure out that morass. to have working knowledge of the parties would be important. that is not to say you cannot learn it. that was carson's answer. i'm a very smart man. smarter than you, kelly. he said it with his eyes. he was suggesting i can figure this out. charlie: one question for hillary clinton. megyn: you issued a memo directing your employees not to

use personal e-mail for state department business. why didn't you follow your own memo? charlie: you are good. jeb bush. megyn: as you showed in the clip, we made news with jeb bush on the iraq question. that is still saddled around him. i would have to think about that one. charlie: do you think he genuinely misunderstood the question? megyn: i thought he did in the moment. we went back to the campaign after the end of air and said, do you want to offer clarification? do you want us to clarify that on the air? he chose not to. what we saw is he floundered with it for four days after that interview. not able to answer it clearly. charlie: is one of the surprises that jeb bush has not been as good as many people expected him to be? megyn: i think so. jeb bush does not present as

some gifted politician. and he does not have the way of speaking that immediately connects with people. but his message has been, i am a conservative person. and governor. and i have a record that will prove that to you. you don't need somebody who can dazzle you with fancy rhetoric. just look at what i did in the state of florida. so i understand that message but in today's day and age, you need more than that. you do need a little razzle-dazzle. you have to be able to penetrate the lens and connect with real people. otherwise, they do not trust you and they do not really like you. charlie: it is about leadership. megyn: leadership, yes, but also connection. charlie: carly fiorina. megyn: i think that carly's probably going to have a lot more trouble when it comes to her time at hp. charlie: there is an increasing crescendo of that. megyn: because she is moving up

in the polls. that will take some homework. if you're like me, you do not pay that close attention to economic news. she can dazzle you with her answers on hewlett-packard, what happened with the growth, we tripled this, we doubled that. you were fired. how great could you have been? that is my way of presenting it. but i think it is worth a deep dive. charlie: even though the person who fired her now says he supports her. megyn: i think that is worth a deep dive into those claims she is making. charlie: then there is joe biden. megyn: vice president joe biden. charlie: do you think he is in? megyn: i'm going to say yes, but i base that on nothing other than -- charlie: that is exactly my answer. i have no reporting on this, but i hear from enough people that thinks he will do it, because if somebody said to me yesterday, he has been thinking about the

presidency because it was a top rung of the game he was in for 40 years. megyn: he has run many times. charlie: he has seen it up close now as vice president. megyn: that does not make you want less. charlie: it makes you want it more. and secondly, it has never been more opportune for him. megyn: right. this movement is being born right now to get him in. they think he is the answer. right. but, having said that, i understand, the death of a child. i cannot imagine. charlie: the death of three daughters. 28 years old. megyn: but i can believe that he's not through that, and that his struggle is sincere with whether he can give a run for the presidency all that it would require, given the mental state he must be in.

charlie: i promise you i would ask this of a man as well as a woman. but does it, do you wish you had more time with your kids? megyn: yes, easily. i have no hesitation. charlie: putting them to bed is a great thing. megyn: it depends. trust me. it depends on the night. um, yes. charlie: or having the last voice before they go to sleep. megyn: i get them up in the morning and i get the first voice. i get a lot of time with them during the day. my kids are aging. they are in school full-time. charlie: what do they come home saying about mother? guess what they said about you in the schoolyard. megyn: they have no idea. they are not immersed in this world. they just know me as mom. i take them out with me. one came with me for an interview i did with mitt romney in utah. my daughter will come with me to the fortune was proper women summit. she's huge, a star of her preschool.

i'm going to be interviewed. i take them with me when i can. we have a train ride together. we go out to lunch and we get extra time. i, like any other working parent, have wrestled with the balance issue. i'm getting to the point where i am releasing myself from the guilt i felt early on. in part because someone very wise just phrased it in a way where he spoke of working very hard and knowing that glorious feeling of accomplishment. we guilt parents, particularly moms, for wanting that. all they should want to be do is be mothers. my truth is i want to do both. i love mothering my children. i love being with them. they are the greatest source of enjoyment in my life. but i also love doing my job. and i do my job and i bring that job home in a way that energizes me and the home and my children

and they know mom is out there in the world doing the job -- she does, not just to pay the bills but because it integrates her and stimulates her intellectually they, too, can get a job like this when they get older. charlie: you are seen as a strong woman, a woman who is very good at her craft. do you like that idea, that young women are looking to megyn kelly and saying that is who i would like to be? she is respected. she is strong and she has a remarkable presence. she loves what she does. megyn: yes. charlie: but it does not transcend -- i have lots of friends who are also strong women, and they want to be constantly making, and helping us remember how much we need to do with respect women and equal pay. you saw what happened at the academy awards.

where are you on that frontier? megyn: i'm not really an issue's advocate when it comes to women or anything else. it is not appropriate given my role. i do not speak out on those things. i will let other people take those positions. i have to cover those stories objectively. i should not be weighing in on that as a personal matter. but, having said that, i am all for female empowerment. and not at the expense of men. i don't like the women who stand up for the empowerment of women at the expense of men. they try to demonize men and suggest men all want to keep us down. which is one of the reasons why i do not like that label feminist. so, you know, my friend sheryl sandberg keeps telling me i am a feminist. and i keep rejecting the label. i've had a bad experience with it. charlie: what was the bad experience? megyn: i see gloria steinem. you're only a feminist in her world if you believe everything that she believes. if you are against abortion, you

are not a feminist. look at what she did and what many on the far left did in the feminist cause to somebody like sarah palin. and i understand sarah palin. i get it, ok? but, but -- charlie: i get it. megyn: i do. but she is running for president. and where were they when they were asking sarah palin whether she could be -- she was running for vice president. whether she could be both vice president and a mother to her children. that was a sexist question. if that had ever been asked of hillary when she was raising chelsea, naral would have been up in arms about that. crickets when it happened to a conservative woman. because, and some actually came out and said, she's less of a woman than some men i know. they try to take your womanhood

away from you if you do not walk in lockstep with their beliefs. that is what i mean by the feminism i reject. i think those feminists would be well served to be more open-minded when it comes to left and right in this country, so they could get more women into the fold. charlie: what is it, what influences your life most today? family? megyn: my family, my husband. charlie: religion? megyn: i was raised catholic. and still am. right now we go to the methodist church that is right by our house. i'm kind of cheating. it is very hard. i have three young children. which has been an experience. very unlike the catholic church, which is very regimented. i mean, my own life motto, charlie, has been to settle for more. and that was born of a dr. phil

saying. the only difference between you and someone you envy is you settle for less. i try to apply that to everything i stand for. my two-year-old has a much more efficient way of saying it which is, i want more. charlie: where's mine? megyn: i mean this in terms of everything. i want to do better as a person. i want to do better as a professional. i want to do better as a mom. i want to do better as a citizen. i want to keep challenging myself to just do better and be better. and the same goes for our country. that is one of the reasons why i love the microphone i have been given by my boss, because it gives you that opportunity. charlie: how much do you miss jon stewart? megyn: not at all. not at all, no. i would say i enjoyed him when he was making fun of other people. but when he was making fun of me, not so much. charlie: was it like a scalpel? megyn: sometimes. when i was younger in particular.

because i did not know whether he was damaging me. is this going to hurt my career? i was just wondering, wow, how much power does he have? i felt those bits he would do were taken out of context and sliced and diced in a way that posed a false message. that is fine. that is what he does. you know that some people are taking it seriously. even as gospel. over time, i came to see the answer to my question was it is not going to hurt you. you'll be fine. as it turns out, i think that fox news channel won that war. charlie: why do you say that? megyn: because he spent 10 years on the air trying to bring us down. he failed. charlie: what is the evidence of that? megyn: he has spoken about how -- charlie: his goal was to bring fox news down? megyn: he was sick and tired of having to watch tapes and to find the light in the darkness. he never felt he could do it. charlie: he felt sick because he failed to take fox down? megyn: yes. in so many words.

if you watch his program, it was clear. in any event, i'm fine. he's fine. fox is fine. charlie: it is great to have you here. congratulations on two years. megyn: thank you. great to be here. charlie: back in a moment. stay with us. ♪

charlie: we turn now to politics and the republican party.

a new poll from quinnipiac university on who is leading among republicans. in florida, ohio, and pennsylvania. ben carson took second place in all three states. house republicans are in the process of choosing a new speaker. kevin mccarthy is considered the front runner. he faces challenges from jason chaffetz from utah and daniel webster of florida. republicans plan to settle on the nominee on thursday. a final vote is set for the end of october. joining me now is robert costa, a national political reporter for "the washington post." he sat down with donald trump for an interview. it ran under the headline "donald trump plots his second act." i am pleased to have him back at this table. welcome. robert: thank you. charlie: a one-time colleague on the show. robert: 2006 intern. charlie: tell me where donald trump is today in terms of his campaign and in terms of his mind and finally in terms of his plans? robert: we went to trump tower. he really does care about these polls.

does not have a pollster inside his campaign. i said to him, are you going to bring on a pollster? he said i read the public polls. has them piled on his desk. he goes through with a blue marker. he really cares about his standing in the race. he's going to remain donald trump. he is not going to have a second act in terms of his style. what is changing for trump right now is the operation of his campaign. hiring more in the early states. moving beyond the early states for delegates. he is going to start to buy television ads. charlie: this is a self-financed campaign. robert: almost entirely. charlie: it would be for him a bit wrong for him to go raise money now because he has made such a point that people who pay and raise money for candidates are in someway corrupting. robert: even if you wanted to build a national financial network, that is the core of his appeal. he makes his case that he cannot

be bought. and that was a core appeal for ross perot when he ran. there is the sense of the billionaire who cannot be bought. it has a blue-collar, populist appeal across the country. i've seen that resonate with voters. trump, he has some super pacs that are supporting him, but he does not have a financial network. he will put $20 million into the campaign. he's going to put his own money in. charlie: is he going to change in any way in terms of style, in terms of how he criticizes other candidates, in terms of his bombast on the campaign trail and during the debates? robert: he still wants to be the celebrity. he will be on twitter. he wants to be accessible to the media. what was interesting -- i sat down with him multiple times. this is the most contemplative i saw him. the most thoughtful in this post summer period. when the cameras are off trump tones down the act. he actually sees the nomination with insight. that is something he did not

think would be possible when he entered the race in the early summer. he entered to win. but he also wanted to make a point. he wanted to be in the arena. he'd thought about it in 2012. did not do it. but i think he is also a realist. he knew it was a long shot coming in. he said it took him a while to get to yes. but it moved at a rapid pace. charlie: and what you think, and what to those people that you talk to, the political pros, the strategists, think about his chances of getting the nomination? what does he have to do to ensure that? robert: rival campaigns have changed their perspective on him 360 degrees. there is a sense that trump is a pure political talent. knowing that trade would be a key issue. when he saw immigration become a key issue, to ride that wave. that show political talent. that is what the washington insiders say to me. trump's better than they thought. they still believe he does not

have the commitment to put in millions of dollars to sustain himself january to february. when the early caucuses and primaries start. charlie: do you believe that? robert: trump was to be in it. his campaign manager says they will go all the way to the convention. but he's not building anything like hillary clinton's campaign. secretary clinton -- if you go to brooklyn, there are 250 people working for secretary. trump has a dozen people in the trump tower. that is his headquarters. he has a large grassroots network, but that is about it. charlie: will he layout position papers? robert: it is interesting for him, the vet issue. the mccain issue turned him for a bit. he wants to get in a positive standing with veterans. he wants to get back to his core issue.

china currency regulation, trade. he thinks that is the core theme of his campaign, not immigration. charlie: that is one interesting about him. he rides these issues. he picks them because he knows that they have deep political appeal to certain sectors and certain sectors of the republican party. the birthing issue. immigration as he expresses it. he knows they are inflammatory and political dynamite and yet, they can give you a start to build some sustainability. robert: he seeks the dynamite. that's what makes covering him different than anyone. most campaigns have a policy rollout. this thing for september. trump has his antenna up constantly. that is how he is. he is not a normal politician. he is operating to go with the crowd and to be trump. charlie: but he also seems to suggest -- and i'm asking -- that he lives by the polls and he will die by the polls. if the polls show him sinking he will get out. robert: that is true.

todd asked him the question "meet the press." he said, if the polls go down, i will get out. when i press him on this, he said he is trying to be honest . he is obsessed with the polls . i've never seen a politician -- but trump has them presented to him every day, piled on his desk. he compared it -- he pointed to the wall. he said look to the "variety" cover. i watched the ratings when i was doing "the apprentice" the same way i watch the polls. he sees it in the same way as ratings. charlie: ego. robert: a huge ego, but there is a confidence there that has propelled him for.

his ego has rubbed a lot of people the wrong way. he is very bemused. when i flew in the plane with him a couple times, when you follow him, he steps outside himself. i always remember the moment in alabama when he took in the crowd. he was amazed himself that what this has become. this was someone who had a small operation. it's become this movement, a phenomenon. charlie: so, today, he is leading in the states. is there a trend line? i've had people say to me, that it's more like an it a tube in which the air is beginning to seep out. robert: the polls are narrowing. when you look at the latest polls, he is still leading. so this is a phenomenon that may be is having some air come out of the balloon. but trump does have the strategy -- he believes the outsider will win iowa. not an evangelical candidate. if an outsider gets propelled out of there, they will go to new hampshire. the things he is -- because he is libertarian on social issues, he is antiabortion, but he thinks new hampshire could be a safe state. he looks ahead to the southern states.

that is why he keeps going to alabama. those march 1 primaries. if he can come out on the first three, iowa, new hampshire, south carolina in the top tier, that southern primary -- he is. charlie: with that, he can roll into the south. robert: if you win those 9-12 southern states and you go into super tuesday in a strong position. charlie: what is his vulnerability? robert: many. the biggest vulnerability is his temperament. he can become easily distracted. i've seen you become tired on become tired on the campaign trail. he is not a politician who knows about how to ride it in the sense of energy. he has had some low moments where he is burst out on cable news. he does a lot of press. we do a lot of press, you put yourself out there. we are fine with it in the press. but i think trump, he's struggling to realize i've had an amazing summer.

this is what he talked with us for an hour. charlie: trump summer in politics. robert: there is a lot of time between now and january and said -- february. robert: carly fiorina has done a lot for the party. i know the chairman are very happy she was on that debate stage in simi valley. but trump, when i was at a focus group, women have real concerns about trump. if he is the nominee, he will have to close that empathy gap. that is what he told me he is going to bring his wife and daughter on the campaign trail. charlie: to create a sense of him as a family man. where will he take stands that will go against party orthodoxy? robert: he is not a wall street republican, even though he is of the business community. he is against corporate inversions on trade. he is not a supply side conservative. his tax plan is different than a

traditional republican tax plan. it cuts corporate and individual rates in a populist fashion. on immigration, he is not with the chamber of commerce crowd. he is running as a populist. and he is not running an ideological campaign. charlie: you have done so well since you left this program as an intern. thank you for coming. thank you for joining us. see you next time. ♪

friday, and you are watching "trending busines " ." this hour, here's a look at what we are watching. asian markets leading the largest global outage. alternate signs the fed will not be moving this year. but not so fast, the biggest loser in tokyo today, falling the most in 18 months after its estimates and low brand recognition.

-- suing pimcolk for driving him out, saying that he was toppled by a plot driven by greed and lust for power. he wants hundreds of millions in compensation. rishaad.e on twitter, @ don't forget the hashtag as well. following the spike in crude final daysook at the of trade of the week. and what a week. >> yes, we are seeing some great gains coming through from energy hasalso mining, crude raised 10% so far in october. we are also seeing zinc at a 2 week high, on the backs of report that glencore is going to cut. you can see t