wave of a recent violence as raise tensions in jerusalem. eight israelis were killed in stabbings over the past month. responded.ces thewhite house announced secretary of state john kerry will be traveling to the region soon. joining us now from washington as a fellow at the brookings institute and a former advisor to the palestinian leadership. here in new york, the u.s. editor of the israeli nugent

paper -- newspaper. i'm pleased to have them on the program. what is going on? >> there has been an outbreak of kind that even though israel and the palestinians have a lot history of violence, there is always a new. very personal, very scary kind of violence. it has to do with stabbings at a table really have to confront their victim is start hacking away at them. all the while endangering themselves and many of the lending of seriously wounded or dead. this comes against the background backdrop of several issues, the most immediate of the provocation on the temple mount.

everybodye issue of is all around us. they can carry out their own ax of violence and terror. what everybody monsoons is the lack of any progress. i do not think that these people , these children for the teenagers were carrying out these teenagers care if there is a peace process or not. this is all broken out at once. charlie: the sense of frustration and grievance. what do you think? khaled elgindy: i think that is true. the great reservoir of

frustration and anger. we are to look at the circumstances in jerusalem were most of these attacks are happening. similar episodes of violence a year ago. this is the one area that has been overlooked by the process. it is a piece free zone. not been part of any settlement isezes, at the same time, it denied services. jerusalem palestinians have a history of separate and unequal treatment. 75% poverty rate. they are not part of israeli society and they are cut off from the west bank.

for has been building probably the last 15 years where israel has intensified grip on jerusalem. it has shut down jerusalem institutions. the sense of despair that all palestinians feel as much more intense in jerusalem. charlie: does this have, as some have suggested, the possibility of becoming another intifada? khaled elgindy: that is certainly a possibility. for that to happen there would need to be a couple things that would happen before then. it would have to be sustained over time, and that requires political organization and mobilization, at a certain level of discipline among the various palestinian factions. we just do not see that right

now. the palestinian political scene is very fragmented, and in a safe date of disarray. -- state of disarray. previous uprisings sustained themselves because the political factions were able to organize and coordinate with each other. that has not happened. as we have seen elsewhere in the region when you have this mass mobilization that is leaderless and cannot articulate clear political demands, it does not often succeed. the worst fear whether general or spirits fear is that there will be increasing radicalization. will be some incident that sets off the entire territory. i think everyone is worried about one of the possible collapse of the palestinian .uthority

there is a fear that we could kind ofinto some military occupation or chaos. -- suspicion of isis is all around us. the large majority of people are aware of what is going on around , either the violence in syria or the massive refugee camp's. i do not think anybody has any wish to descend into that kind of situation. at least from the israeli point of view, and think the target now is just to get things back under control. primek that despite

minister netanyahu's talk, he likes to talk loudly and carry a small stake. -- stick. what they want to do now is stamp it out. they won't have enough troops on the ground so no one can move. short course, not an actual aggressive attack. chemi shalev: you have heard things that may develop. americans have been in touch with king abdullah. they did the same thing last year when they were having trouble in jerusalem. it is a festive ceremony that might allow people to step down. is, or: the question these teenagers controllable, and how many of them are there? how many are there that are

willing to undertake this very scary operation. chemi shalev: i do not have the answer to that. charlie: and who are they in terms of family? chemi shalev: there are many types. there have been disaffected, unemployed teenagers. there's a famous case of a 13-year-old boy who acclaimed had been executed, and israel celebrated the fact that he was a life in an israeli hospital. perhaps the least to complain about among the palestinians and they are also participating. i think that the core problem is who have been the

core of this campaign. i do not know how many of them they are. charlie: you do not believe it is the people who were doing side,n the palestinian about anot -- it is not peace treaty, it is certainly about personal grievance. chemi shalev: and might even be, for some of them, a personal grief. it is the first series of incidents that are mainly based on social media. there is a lot of facebook and blogs and secret places that they go to. the iphone intifada even though it has not been declared as an intifada. they see what is going on around. those that take inspiration from isis or other radical groups, they don't need an iphone for that. i do not think the israelis have

recognized central control yes. they are accusing the palestinian authority of inciting, but there has been no accusation that this is somehow being managed from headquarters anywhere. it is spontaneous, and -- charlie: 20 you think -- what do you think? khaled elgindy: invoking isis, fears of isis is a little bit exaggerated. isis does not have a foothold, not a factor in the very large protests that are happening in jerusalem, in the west bank, and even among palestinian citizens of israel. ins is a very marginal fluence and all of this for you what this really is is about occupation.

israeli occupation that is deepening every day and is intense in jerusalem because of thatpecial circumstances abide there. you have this generalized anger, and as we have seen in other protests elsewhere in the region, it is usually the teenagers and those in their early 20's who are at the forefront of this mass mobilization. dissatisfaction with their conditions, but it is also dissatisfaction with their political leadership. whether the established political groups in palestine, whether it is hamas in gaza, or the pan was bank. they are making the point that this is not driven by factions, unlike past uprisings in and as he says, there is no central had they may emerge at a

certain point, but we have to distinguish between a couple different things. there are the stabbings, which are abhorrent, and the other attacks on civilians. but the vast majority of the unrest is the standard palestinian protest of stonethrowing at israeli troops at checkpoints and other places that we have seen in the past. so that is not new. agreeving said that, i that there are some new dimensions to this. obviously the technology is a slice of things in a way that we have not seen before. that is true across the organization elsewhere in the world. there is another thing that i think is overlooked. the israeli side of this.

there is a radicalization and extremism that has taken root in israeli society it has sort of become allies. it is no longer just in the margins. we see really horrific types of violence. just this past summer, before in therent clashes latest crisis erupted, we had this family that was burned to death by israeli settlers in the west bank. , if you look at the israeli discourse on social media. again, social media, these trends apply on both sides. the commentary that you see in the israeli social media arena is quite fiery lightning -- quite frightening and bloodcurdling.

offering calls for murder. we see videos that are making their way around social media palestinian gunmen who was killed in various jewish extremists are parading his body -- a meats of pygmies on top of him. some gruesome things. radicalization but it is happening of both sides are at on the israeli side is actually influencing policy .hoices and limiting them i agree there has been radicalization on the right-wing side of israeli society and i agree some of the sec's -- some of the things you see on social media are horrendous. but there is a vicious circle here.

the palestinian violence and the lack of any belief that the toestinians are willing enter into a peace process on the israeli side, and isis, and the horrendous things we have seen from isis, all of these have radicalized israeli society and has turned the right-wing part of it even more violent, and has turned public opinion generally -- the right-wing has become radical right ere the moderate center is gone to the right when there's a small left-wing left. the leader of the labour party find himself calling for tougher measures. even though he is still wanting to see a two state solution the rhetoric is becoming harsher on both sides. i think this is not helping.

he is not been helping the past few weeks. i think that this incident with the 13-year-old boy that he claimed was that has done him real damage in the public opinion. not the part of the do not want to have anything to do with him in the first place, but the portions of the center that still believe it is a possibility. iso not see right now where this that is going to come and save us. things go from bad to worse. palestinians become more violent israelis become more partial. sunshine that is going to break this darkness? charlie: thank you for coming. ure to see you. back in a moment. ♪

charlie: pablo picasso was the most dominant artist of the 20th century. his ground breaking work changed the course of modern art and he was a devoted sculptor throughout his lifetime. a new exhibition in the museum of modern art focuses on his work in three dimensions. like 02-1960 --

opans years of 1902 tp 1964. i am pleased to have our experts at the table. what wonderful titles. [laughter] now? .veryone is raving about this picasso attracts a crowd. sculpture is such an important part of his work. and it has not been here in 50 years. >> the general fact is that sculpture is less known and less about and painting because it is

harder to make a scene. space, moremore trouble to transport, harder to arrange in a gallery. across the board it is what less well-known, but particularly with picasso. how good was he a sculpture? >> as good as he was at everything else that is one of the revelations of the show. charlie: that is what someone said to me. was as good ahe sculpture as he was a painter. did he sculptor until the end of his life? >> he did not. last decade, and of his very last works, sheet --al sculptures from 60 14 1961 were converted into public

monuments. aswatched from his home there were 50 foot sculptures arising from his designs. charlie: how do you define his greatness? >> i don't know. cory: one thing i have always been impressed by. i have done lots of television programs of all kinds. ofrospectives of all kinds portrait tours. the thing that impresses me most about his genius is how obsessive hed worked at it. unstoppable, there is no idea not worth doing something to or working and remaking. charlie: he would even excuse from dinner parties to go paint.

>> yes. , withe exception to that sculpture in particular is carving marble. you think about the traditional image of a sculpture like michelangelo patiently working away at carving stone. for,also had no patience it was too slow. charlie: so how did he do it? ann temkin: much more impatiently. he did not date them with the year, but the day he made it. characterized primarily by the sheer pleasure of invention and experimentation. anne umland: i think that comes through in the show. you just go from gallery to any newand each time

set of materials, a new subject matter, a new way of making. hard to believe that in some cases comes from one artist. there is that much range. charlie: someone writing in the times said that the exhibition raises the question of whether also was a better sculptor or painter. we have already touched on that. great at each. there are just so many people who know so little about him as a school term. anne umland: an important point was he was trained as a painter. with new school for years to learn to paint. his father was a painter. he had no schooling in culture, no training whatsoever. when he approached it right from the start it was as a self-taught artist borrowing materials, using friends studios and equipment, and he kept that spirit his whole life. there was nothing to unlearn. the freedom which came to him

came. toreas he sent his paintings shows, he did not have that with sculpture. anne umland: you can see a , astant back-and-forth dialogue. picasso would never want to stay in one category or other, cuc in applying paint to his sculptures from day one. and some of the same subjects are there in the sculptures. think conversation is a good word. -- inot think he ever

think there is an interchange between the two. charlie: how did his sculptures influence others who followed him? >> if you look through this exhibition, even watching visitors in the show, people will be dropping names. s --erent moment charlie: they can see the influence? >> yes. charlie: does his early work have some relationship to greek sculpture? work, that isly something he came to later in life. from his very earliest moment when he was painting what we think of as the chapters of the blue. period, he was looking at the most famous sculptor of that time. -- he about classes

did nothing about classicism until a few decades later. charlie: betty sutt -- but he studied them? >> informally. he only let him african work. that was the biggest impact. tremendous admiration. both formulae, in african masks shells and nails and all sorts of other heterogeneous materials that he imitated. but also the idea that sculpture had a magical presence and had some kind of force or power within itself that was virtually animate. that he wanted for his sculptures. charlie: did it change during the war? >> was at a different mood? i think so. he famously chose to say on occupied paris. he makes some of his most somber in mood works at that moment. charlie: you can see that in the

paintings as well. anne umland: you can, but you can see the sculpture of the d for instance. but at the same time he also t iconic of his most time o handlebars and bicycle seat sculpture. childliket had a more feeling. to the south of france and remained there for the next 30 years of his life. he was down in the sun, on the beat, and you feel that strongly. and given the father of two little kids. there is a playfulness and a joy in that later work that is him discovering his own childhood again. charlie: let's take a look at some of these images.

describe this. tell me about this. called as a sculpture glass of absence from 1914. it is one of a group of six cast picassoe, but typically undoes everything. as you can see with this one and its five companions, decorated surface, covered in paint, added a real absinthe spoon. it is a phone option -- found object. i suppose the funny thing with -- picasso is this whole idea of taking a transparent glass, as a subject for sculpture, and not making something opaque and also the is liquid but he renders it in solid form. he loves to write with how can you make something absolutely

the opposite of what you think it should be. charlie: the next is in paris in 1924 is, what was that about? think here you have a great example of how paintings and sculpture were in many ways and forth. the guitar hangs on the wall that it comes in and out, there is solid and void, there are wires as the strings. it is a playful object done as a serious sculpture. charlie: how many of these pieces are part of the permanent collection? 11.: in the show there are charlie: the next one is woman in the garden.

this was the last of a number of works custom-made as proposals for a graveside marker for his dear friend. picasso received a commission to marker. tombstone it is one of the great chapters in 20th century art history in terms of the things that were rejected by the committee of to and including this one. charlie: this was rejected. anne: they all were. not a conventional marker as a -- conventional thought of a marker. charlie: does this reflect his admiration for african figures. anne: absolutely. all of the works from this

moment have -- they are almost more african and african objects themselves. charlie: this is from 1933. the warrior motif. worksthis is one of the in the moma permanent collection. studio this in the first that he actually had first culture, in his shantou in normandie. château inith -- normandie. one of the things we love, you see that eyeball, if we x-rayed that underneath it is a tennis ball. he had a tennis court on the property. , arlie: the next is a vase woman in 1948. >> one of the ways he reinvents

his practice after the war, he learns how to make ceramics. course they began with picasso. he learns how to throw pots, and proceeds to do everything to them that you shouldn't and the owner of the ceramic workshop where he worked was famously said if he had been his real apprentice he would have been fired. charlie: because he lacked what? anne: because he was irreverent. he took a nice vase and squished it to make a body. charlie: what does it say about his depiction of women? >> traditional. that he could make something or a figure out of anything. charlie: this is from 1950. >> a very well-known -- it has

been in the moma sculpture garden since 1959. one of the things he said about this, she is more real than a real goat. there is an incredible amount of life likeness. ven though it is a wicker basket for the frame. he cap this in his yard and he had a pet goat he would tether to it in a leash. from 1951.is is made when a work picasso is a father of a young boy named claude. this is one that he pilfered two of his toy cars for and put them together to make this baboon's head. there are any number of

photographs holding his young son to his chest in the way that this baboon, which has been identified as a female baboon in the past, but reads as a self-portrait. charlie: also, another example of his commitment to naturalism -- [laughter] a self-portrait, yes. >> typically picasso sent a real watering can, and then these fragments from his pottery experiments and things like real nails. there was a junk heap in between his studio and his home and he would go walking their. -- there. fromie: the next one is 1958.

>> another work from the moma collection. here you see picasso going back to working with wood, something that happened early in the cupid years. these flat forms. int is so great about it real life is if you look, it has these nail heads. it is so picasso to make something that has a thick itole -- pectoral sparkle to using utilitarian things. >> in the branches are from the palm trees in his backyard. charlie: and the next slide. >> his last campaign of sculpture was in 1960-61. he began making works in sheet metal.

cardboard, folding it, cutting it. charlie: early frank gehry. >> yes. them to hise collaborator who made them into sheet-metal works. in many cases he would paint them. he made over 120 sheet metal sculptures. charlie: how hard was it to bring the pieces together? >> we relied on the kindness and generosity of a lot of people. charlie: including museums in paris. >> picasso in paris was our real partner in this project. over 50 sculptures. charlie: 50 from them. >> out of 141. >> picasso cap his sculptures with him for most of his life and after his death when they settled the estate those works became the core of the collection. charlie: why did he keep them with him?

obviously you could say he loved them. >> one could speculate endlessly . i think he likes living with them. clearly from photographs he arrange them around his space. i do believe they had personalities and were company for him. there are all sorts of letters in our archives from alfred far to picasso asking him. sculpture x,with y, z and by and large the answer was no, no, and no. charlie: thank you. >> thank you for having us. there untilwill be february. it is something you don't want to miss. an extraordinary thing. it happens every 50 years. [laughter] thank you for joining us. back in a moment.

stay with us. ♪

charlie: cary fukunaga is here, the director of his first feature film by the screening website netflix. "beasts of no nation" stars

idris elba. here is the trailer for the film. >> what is this doing here? >> what are you doing here? ha is responsible? what are they calling you? i saved your life. i saved your life. go.

, you know how something that stands for you. young, the powerful. >> i will always protect you. a son always protects the father. my men, you will remember me. [singing] family.e are you ready to fight? >> yes, sir.

>> victory. victory. charlie: cary fukunaga also directed the first season of true detective which he received an emmy. i am pleased to have met the table for the first time. what is it you want us to understand about child soldiers and "beasts of no nation?" cary: i don't want it to be a didactic film. it is a departure for most watching in their everyday life, transporting them to another part of the world and becoming emotionally connected to a kid who i think but otherwise be a headline. there is something indelible about emotional memory and it changes the way we look at the

world. charlie: where did you find abraham? once he was recast it -- street casted. we didn't have a traditional addition. we try. people didn't come. we had to find kids who might be interested in acting in a film. abraham was playing football on a pitch. approached himt and harrison thought -- abraham thought he was being scouted for football. he was excited at first. turned out it was only for a movie. charlie: did you know you had to make it into a film, did it affect you that way? it took him many years? cary: almost 10 years. i had already been working on the subject for five years before that. it has been near and dear to me for 15 years.

charlie: why? cary: i studied history and political science. the images that i saw children holding weapons, not only violence inflicted on them but the violence they are inflicting on others was too hard to fathom. charlie: you saw firsthand refugee camps. cary: i learn more details about the wars. i had access to certain parts of the country. at this part the war was over and there was disarmament. peace andcreate reconciliation. i got firsthand accounts of that particular war. when i read the novel i felt like it wasn't specific to any one nation. it tries not to go in

the context of any country's history. it is more of a human story than a political story. charlie: were you more interested in the children or the militia leaders? cary: the children become the militia leaders. i think that i am interested in everything about it. how the cycle works. why these wars take place. why these children decide to join forces and leaders, these charismatic military types, what with their life be like had they want with different country and and applied that to something more productive. charlie: your father was born in an internment camp. your grandfather was japanese. thishe influence any of career in movies and this desire to tell this story? cary: it is funny, growing up i

think it drove my grandparents crazy asking them questions about our family history, their lives. i think they felt there was nothing interesting or important about their life. charlie: you convince them otherwise? cary: final think i ever convince them. there was something about the mystery of it that i found intriguing. i don't know where my interest in storytelling came from. i would spend the entire day in the multiplex watching every movie. the travails of my family have definitely influenced and affected me and driven me as well in terms of knowing how much they sacrificed. charlie: are you in the back of

your mind thinking about making the defining movie about the interment process and impact? cary: i would love to tell that story. i am not sure we can talk about studio system is changing but in the current system i'm not sure how i could get that movie financed on the scale you would need to show these camps in the budget you need to make this movie. charlie: you were the director of the first season of "true detective," which i loved. autuer an up to her feeling. it just was -- cary: it was a fun -- charlie: what was it for you? cary: in hindsight it was fun. during it was a difficult process.

i had this naïve idea it would be much quicker to do then it was. i don't think i really pageered what a 450 script meant in terms of what it was going to mean from me. twolie: then you great t great actors. cary: and they are in every scene. the whole thing rests on their shoulders. charlie: and then you get to work with idris elba, a huge powerful presence. as well as actor. what was the -- why was he the instant choice for this? cary: he was pretty much the only choice. i was still shooting true detective. one of the producers was talking and waiting for set up to get done. he says you should get idris elba to do it.

get it. think we would a tiny budget, someone of his stature. his star was rising. the general public is becoming more aware of him. a lot of people think he is unattainable. i was able to get him on the phone. he signed on the phone call. charlie: in the phone call. cary: in the phone call. i got him on board. charlie: had he read it? cary: he read the script. the world was not beefed up as it was. charlie: you got a good actor. cary: he elevated what i wrote. i sort of made him a more central figure. board idris elba, and changed the story and made it more of the father-son dynamic that developed. charlie: is at the

dynamic of the movie? cary: i think so. the patriarch system. mean, thehat does he kid mean to him? what does he see? cary: at one point in the story he says you are my me of me when i was younger. i don't think he is line. something. he sees , i rememberildren speaking to a minister of parliament when we were setting up a moving, a commander and lord, and he said without any filtering, as if i was a journalist, child soldiers were his best soldiers. the most loyal, the most eager to please, the most fearless. i think it is the same thing.

he has all these young men and adults he is working with. there are the politics and a movement but the kids just do his bidding. there is a lot of power in that. charlie: do they see such gruesome things that it changes their soul, their psyche? cary: without a doubt. i don't think anyone who sees that violence, they are altered. i don't know, permanently. from those experiences. in abraham's case that is what it gets to, the heart of the story when he is speaking to the aid worker. but it is what he says to her and what his experience has been so far. and the future is not certain. his optimism, he knows he will

always carry that shadow. charlie: here's the scene between the commandant and him. >> my father and my brother -- i was going to run. >> everybody has the, undaunted. commandant look? >> what are they calling you? you must say it like you are proud of. one more time. well, that is what i will be calling you.

leave this one under my charge. i will train them to be a war hero. charlie: there you go pick you were almost moved there. cary: i was rmb and bring the day. charlie: what were you remembering? cary: that was one of the first days they work together. he was having a hard day. we had him walk through the valley. he hates snakes, terrified. his nerves were on edge from that. in that scene the cap shooting over and over again. it was an oppressively hot day. you felt like you were in a sauna. you might as well have been on drugs. he got emotional. it was the first time that i saw this kid can do it. i wasn't certain before that. shooting chronologically. charlie: this convinced you. cary: in the edit we just let

the camera run on him. eventually, idris is also amazing and we had to cut to him. charlie: what you are doing with netflix, you think this is where they are going? cary: i don't want to pretend i can see the future. i see from the writer-director's perspective, the amazing potential. i feel a we're back in the 1960's, shaking up the system in terms of hollywood and how movies are made. charlie: why is that? cary: you have a subscription service getting involved. the subscription service is the brand. the box office, when it comes into cinema is not the most critical factor to remaining in the cinema. that changes everything. charlie: because they have people pay eight dollars a month. thank you for coming.

cary: thank you for having me. charlie: see you next time. ♪

twocine: welcome leaders with lacqua. earlier this year it sold two of its most well known brands. i speak with the group's ceo, john fallon about the impact of selling those established brands. thank you for speaking to bloomberg. we have been talking about the sale for as long as i can remember. when you do