>> from our studios in new york city, this is "charlie rose." charlie: a recent wave of violence has raised tensions in jerusalem. eight israelis were killed in stabbings over the past month. israeli forces responded. the white house announced the secretary of state john kerry will be traveling to the region soon. joining us now from washington as a fellow at the brookings institute and a former advisor to the palestinian leadership. here in new york, the u.s.

editor of the israeli newspaper. i'm pleased to have them on the program. what is going on? >> there has been an outbreak of violence of any kind that even though israel and the palestinians have a lot history of violence, there is always a new. this is very personal, very scary kind of violence. it has to do with stabbings at a done stabbings of people that really have to confront their victim is start hacking away at them. all the while endangering themselves and many of them ending up seriously wounded or dead. this comes against the backdrop of several issues, the most immediate of which was the provocation on the temple mount.

there's the issue of everybody is all around us. they can carry out their own ax of violence and terror. what everybody monsoons is the -- mention the is the lack of any progress. i do not think that these people, children, or teenagers were carrying out these teenagers care if there is a peace process or not. i think they do feel a sense of frustration. many of them feel stuck. this has all broken out at once. charlie: the sense of frustration and grievance. what do you think? khaled: i think that is true. the great reservoir of frustration and anger.

we have to look at the circumstances in jerusalem were most of these attacks are happening. we saw similar episodes of violence a year ago. this is the one area that has been overlooked by the process. it is a piece free zone. not been part of any settlement freezes, at the same time, it is denied services. jerusalem palestinians have a history of separate and unequal treatment. they will pay 75% poverty rate. they are not part of israeli society and they are cut off from the west bank.

this has been building for probably the last 15 years where israel has intensified grip on jerusalem. it has shut down jerusalem institutions. the sense of despair that all palestinians feel as much more intense in jerusalem. charlie: does this have, as some have suggested, the possibility of becoming another intifada? khaled elgindy: that is certainly a possibility. for that to happen there would need to be a couple things that would happen before then.

it would have to be sustained over time, and that requires political organization and mobilization, at a certain level of discipline among the various palestinian factions. we just do not see that right now. the palestinian political scene is very fragmented, and in a safe date of disarray. -- state of disarray. previous uprisings sustained themselves because the political factions were able to organize and coordinate with each other.

that has not happened. as we have seen elsewhere in the region when you have this mass mobilization that is leaderless and cannot articulate clear political demands, it does not often succeed. chemi shalev: the worst fear whether general or spirits fear is that there will be increasing radicalization. will be some incident that sets off the entire territory. i think everyone is worried about one of the possible collapse of the palestinian authority. there is a fear that we could descend into some kind of military occupation or chaos. suspicion of isis is all around us. the large majority of people are aware of what is going on around, either the violence in syria or the massive refugee camps. i do not think anybody has any wish to descend into that kind of situation. at least from the israeli point of view, and think the target now is just to get things back under control. i think that despite prime minister netanyahu's talk, he likes to talk loudly and carry a small stick.

what they want to do now is stamp it out. they won't have enough troops on the ground so no one can move. charlie: short course, not an actual aggressive attack. chemi shalev: you have heard things that may develop. americans have been in touch with king abdullah. they did the same thing last year when they were having trouble in jerusalem. it is a festive ceremony that might allow people to step down. charlie: the question is, or these teenagers controllable, and how many of them are there? how many are there that are

willing to undertake this very scary operation. chemi shalev: i do not have the answer to that. charlie: and who are they in terms of family? chemi shalev: there are many types. there have been disaffected, unemployed teenagers. there's a famous case of a 13-year-old boy who acclaimed had been executed, and israel celebrated the fact that he was a life in an israeli hospital. perhaps the least to complain about among the palestinians and they are also participating. i think that the core problem is with teenagers who have been the core of this campaign.

i do not know how many of them they are. charlie: you do not believe it is the people who were doing this on the palestinian side, and are not -- it is not about a peace treaty, it is certainly about personal grievance. chemi shalev: and might even be, for some of them, a personal grief. it is the first series of incidents that are mainly based on social media. there is a lot of facebook and blogs and secret places that they go to. it is the iphone intifada even

though it has not been declared as an intifada. they see what is going on around. and those that take inspiration from isis or other radical groups, they don't need an iphone for that. i do not think the israelis have recognized central control yes. they are accusing the palestinian authority of inciting, but there has been no accusation that this is somehow being managed from headquarters anywhere. it is spontaneous, and -- charlie: what do you think? khaled elgindy: invoking isis, fears of isis is a little bit exaggerated. isis does not have a foothold, not a factor in the very large protests that are happening in jerusalem, in the west bank, and even among palestinian citizens of israel.

isis is a very marginal influence and all of this for you what this really is is about occupation. israeli occupation that is deepening every day and is intense in jerusalem because of the special circumstances that abide there. you have this generalized anger, and as we have seen in other protests elsewhere in the region, it is usually the teenagers and those in their early 20's who are at the forefront of this mass mobilization. part of it is dissatisfaction with their conditions, but it is also dissatisfaction with their political leadership.

whether the established political groups in palestine, whether it is hamas in gaza, or the pan was bank. they are making the point that this is not driven by factions, unlike past uprisings in and as he says, there is no central had -- headquarters they may emerge at a certain point, but we have to distinguish between a couple different things. there are the stabbings, which are abhorrent, and the other attacks on civilians. but the vast majority of the unrest is the standard palestinian protest of stonethrowing at israeli troops at checkpoints and other places that we have seen in the past. so that is not new. but having said that, i agree him that there are some new dimensions to this. obviously the technology is a slice of things in a way that we have not seen before. that is true across the region and elsewhere in the world. there is another thing that i think is overlooked. the israeli side of this. there is a radicalization and

extremism that has taken root in israeli society it has sort of become normalized. it is no longer just in the margins. we see really horrific types of violence. just this past summer, before the current clashes in the latest crisis erupted, we had this family that was burned to death by israeli settlers in the west bank. that is, if you look at the israeli discourse on social media. again, social media, these trends apply on both sides. the commentary that you see in the israeli social media arena is quite frightening and bloodcurdling. outright calls for murder.

we see videos that are making their way around social media with a young palestinian man who was killed in various jewish extremists are parading his body himes of pig meat on top of some gruesome things. there is real radicalization but it is happening of both sides and on the israeli side is actually influencing policy choices and limiting them. chemi shalev: i agree there has been radicalization on the right-wing side of israeli society in a agree that some of the things you see on social media are horrendous. either you wouldn't have seen them 30 years ago or we didn't know about them. but there is a vicious circle

here. the palestinian violence and the lack of any belief that the palestinians are willing to enter into a peace process on the israeli side, and isis, and the horrendous things we have seen from isis, all of these have radicalized israeli society and has turned the right-wing part of it even more violent, and has turned public opinion generally -- the right-wing has become radical right where the moderate center is gone to the right when there's a small left-wing left. the leader of the labour party find himself calling for tougher measures. even though he is still wanting to see a two state solution the rhetoric is becoming harsher on both sides. i think this is not helping. he is not been helping the past few weeks.

i think that this incident with the 13-year-old boy that he claimed was that has done him real damage in the public opinion. not the part that not want to did have anything to do with him in the first place, but the portions of the center that still believe it is a possibility. i do not see right now where is this that is going to come and save us. things go from bad to worse. palestinians become more violent israelis become more partial. where is the sunshine that is going to break this darkness? i don't see it yet. charlie: thank you for coming. a pleasure to see you. back in a moment. ♪

charlie: pablo picasso was the most dominant artist of the 20th century. his ground breaking work changed the course of modern art and he was a devoted sculptor throughout his lifetime. a new exhibition in the museum of modern art focuses on his work in three dimensions.

its main figures like 02-1960 -- spans years of 1902 to 1964. i am pleased to have our experts at the table. what wonderful titles. [laughter] why now? everyone is raving about this. picasso attracts a crowd. sculpture is such an important part of his work. and it has not been here in 50 years. >> the general fact is that sculpture is less known and less

about and painting because it is harder to make a scene. if takes up more space, more trouble to transport, harder to arrange in a gallery. across the board it is what less well-known, but particularly with picasso. charlie: how good was he a sculpture? >> as good as he was at everything else that is one of the revelations of the show. charlie: that is what someone said to me. i had no idea he was as good a sculpture as he was a painter. did he sculptor until the end of his life?

>> he did not. except for the last decade, and of his very last works, sheet metal sculptures from 60 14 -- 1961 were converted into public monuments. he watched from his home as there were 50 foot sculptures arising from his designs. charlie: how do you define his greatness? >> i don't know. one thing i have always been impressed by. i have done lots of television programs of all kinds. retrospectives of all kinds of portrait tours. the thing that impresses me most about his genius is how passionate and obsessive he worked at it. then let's, unstoppable, there is no idea not worth doing

something to or working and remaking. charlie: he would even excuse from dinner parties to go paint. >> yes. the one exception to that, with sculpture in particular is carving marble. you think about the traditional image of a sculpture like michelangelo patiently working away at carving stone. that also had no patience for, it was too slow. charlie: so how did he do it? ann temkin: much more impatiently. he did not date them with the year, but the day he made it. charlie: it characterized primarily by the sheer pleasure of invention and experimentation. anne umland: i think that comes through in the show. you just go from gallery to gallery and each time any new

set of materials, a new subject matter, a new way of making. it is just hard to believe that in some cases comes from one artist. there is that much range. charlie: someone writing in the times said that the exhibition raises the question of whether also was a better sculptor or painter. we have already touched on that. he was great at each. there are just so many people who know so little about him as a school term. anne umland: an important point was he was trained as a painter. with new school for years to learn to paint. his father was a painter. he had no schooling in culture, no training whatsoever. when he approached it right from the start it was as a self-taught artist borrowing materials, using friends studios and equipment, and he kept that spirit his whole life. there was nothing to unlearn. the freedom which came to him anyhow came.

whereas he sent his paintings to shows, he did not have that with sculpture. you can see a constant back-and-forth, a dialogue. picasso would never want to stay in one category or another, so you see him literally applying paint to his sculptures from day one. and some of the same subjects are there in the sculptures. i think conversation is a good word. i don't think he ever worked

from his sculptures like you might from a model but i think there is an interchange between the two. charlie: how did his sculptures influence others who followed him? >> if you look through this exhibition, even watching visitors in the show, people will be dropping names. different moments -- charlie: they can see the influence? >> yes. charlie: does his early work have some relationship to greek sculpture? >> not his early work, that is something he came to later in life. from his very earliest moment when he was painting what we think of as the chapters of the blue period, he was looking at the most famous sculptor of that time. he didn't really think about about classicism until a few

decades later. charlie: but he studied them? >> informally. he owned a lot of african work. that was the biggest impact. tremendous admiration. both formally, for example in african masks you might have shells and nails and all sorts of other heterogeneous materials that he imitated. but also the idea that sculpture had a magical presence and had some kind of force or power within itself that was virtually animate. that he wanted for his sculptures. charlie: did it change during the war? was it -- >> a different mood? i think so. he famously chose to say on occupied paris. he makes some of his most somber in mood works at that moment. charlie: you can see that in the paintings as well.

anne umland: you can, but you can see the sculpture of the death bed for instance. but at the same time he also made one of his most iconic handlebars and bicycle seat sculptures. charlie: it had a more childlike feeling. >> yes, that's very true. after the war, he moved to the south of france and remained there for the next 30 years of his life. he was down in the sun, on the beat, and you feel that strongly. and he became the father of two little kids. there is a playfulness and a joy in that later work that is him discovering his own childhood again. charlie: let's take a look at some of these images. describe this. tell me about this.

>> this is a sculpture called a glass of absence from 1914. it is one of a group of six cast in bronze, but typically picasso undoes everything. as you can see with this one and its five companions, decorated surface, covered in paint, added a real absinthe spoon. each spoon found is different. i suppose the funny thing with picasso is this whole idea of taking a transparent glass, as a subject for sculpture, and not only making something opaque and also the context is liquid but he renders it in solid form. throughout his career, he loves to play with how can you make something absolutely the opposite of what you think it

should be. charlie: the next is in paris in 1924. what is that about? >> certainly, picasso the spaniard very much thinking about that. have a great you example of how painting and sculpture were in many ways back-and-forth at work because this guitar hangs on the wall and it comes in and out, there is solid and void, there are wires as the strings. it is a playful object done as a serious sculpture. charlie: how many of these pieces are part of the permanent collection? anne: in the show there are 11. charlie: the next one is woman in the garden. this is from the key 29 and

1930. -- 1929 and 1930. anne: this was the last of a number of works custom-made as proposals for a graveside marker for his dear friend. picasso received a commission to design a tombstone marker. it is one of the great chapters in 20th century art history in terms of the things that were rejected by the committee of to and including this one. charlie: this was rejected. anne: they all were. that was not a onventional thought of a marker. charlie: does this reflect his admiration for african figures. anne: absolutely. all of the works from this

moment have -- they are almost more african and african -- than african objects themselves. charlie: this is from 1933. the warrior motif. anne: this is one of the works in the moma permanent collection. he made this in the first studio that he actually had first -- had for sculpture in his château in normandy. he worked with plaster intensely for the first time. one of the things we love, you see that eyeball, if we x-rayed that underneath it is a tennis , ball. he had a tennis court on the property. charlie: the next is a vase, a woman in 1948. -- 1848. >> one of the ways he reinvents

his sculptural practice after the war, he learns how to make ceramics. and of course they began with picasso. he learns how to throw pots, and proceeds to do everything to them that you shouldn't and the owner of the ceramic workshop where he worked was famously said if he had been his real apprentice he would have been fired. charlie: because he lacked what? anne: because he was irreverent. he took a nice vase and squished it to make a body. charlie: what does it say about his depiction of women? >> traditional. that he could make something or a figure out of anything. charlie: this is from 1950.

>> is very well known. it has been in the moma sculpture garden since 1959. one of the things he said about this, she is more real than a real goat. don't you think? there is an incredible amount of life likeness. even though it is a wicker basket for the rib cage and ceramic fragments for the others -- utters. had this in his yard and he had a pet goat he would tether to it in a leash. charlie: this is from 1951. >> this is a work made when picasso is a father of a young boy named claude. this is one that he pilfered two of his toy cars for and put them together to make this baboon's head. there are any number of

photographs holding his young son to his chest in the way that this baboon, which has been identified as a female baboon in the past, but reads as a self-portrait. charlie: also, another example of his commitment to naturalism , isn't it? [laughter] >> a self-portrait, yes. charlie: the next one is the flower watering can. >> typically picasso. he put in a real watering can, and then these fragments from his pottery experiments and things like real nails. there was a junk heap in between his studio and his home and he would go walking there. the biggest pack rat. charlie: the next one is from 1958. >> another work from the moma collection.

here you see picasso going back to working with wood, something that happened early in the cupid years. these flat forms. what is so great about it in real life is if you look, it has these nail heads. it is so picasso to make something that has a pictorial sparkle to it using utilitarian things. >> and the branches are from the palm trees in his backyard. charlie: and the next slide. >> his last campaign of sculpture was in 1960-61. he began making works in sheet

metal. cardboard, folding it, cutting it. charlie: early frank gehry. >> yes. he would give them to his collaborator who made them into sheet-metal works. in many cases he would paint them. he made over 120 sheet metal sculptures. charlie: how hard was it to bring the pieces together? >> we relied on the kindness and generosity of a lot of people. charlie: including museums in paris. >> picasso in paris was our real partner in this project. over 50 sculptures. charlie: 50 from them. >> out of 141. >> picasso kept his sculptures with him for most of his life and after his death when they settled the estate those works became the core of the

collection. charlie: why did he keep them with him? obviously you could say he loved them. >> one could speculate endlessly. i think he likes living with them. clearly from photographs he arranged them around his space. i do believe they had personalities and were company for him. there are all sorts of letters in our archives from alfred far to picasso asking him. what he part with sculpture x, y, z and by and large the answer was no, no, and no. charlie: thank you. >> thank you for having us. charlie: it will be there until february. it is something you don't want to miss. an extraordinary thing. it happens every 50 years. [laughter] thank you for joining us. back in a moment. stay with us. ♪

we live in a pick and choose world.

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"beasts of no nation" stars idris elba. here is the trailer for the film. >> what is this doing here? >> what are you doing here? who is responsible? what are they calling you? i saved your life. i saved your life. i saved your life. go.

all of you have seen your family killed. you now have something that stands for you. the put the weapons of this award back in the hands of you, the young, the powerful. >> i will always protect you. a son always protects the father. my men, you will remember me. [singing] >> we are family. are you ready to fight?

>> yes, sir. >> victory. >> yes, sir. >> victory. >> yes, sir. yes, sir. charlie: cary fukunaga also directed the first season of true detective which he received an emmy. i am pleased to have him at this table for the first time. what is it you want us to understand about child soldiers and "beasts of no nation?" cary: i don't want it to be a didactic film. it is a departure for most watching in their everyday life, transporting them to another part of the world and becoming emotionally connected to a kid who i think but otherwise be a headline. there is something indelible

about emotional memory and it changes the way we look at the world. charlie: where did you find abraham? cary: he was street casted. we didn't have a traditional addition. we try. people didn't come. we had to find kids who might be interested in acting in a film. abraham was playing football on a pitch. harrison nesbitt approached him and harrison thought -- abraham thought he was being scouted for football. he was excited at first. turned out it was only for a movie. charlie: did you know you had to make it into a film, did it affect you that way? it took him many years? cary: almost 10 years. i had already been working on the subject for five years before that. it has been near and dear to me for 15 years. charlie: why?

cary: i studied history and political science in college. e i first learned about the wars in central africa. the images that i saw children holding weapons, not only violence inflicted on them but the violence they are inflicting on others was too hard to fathom. charlie: you saw firsthand refugee camps. cary: i learn more details about the wars. i had access to certain parts of the country. at this part the war was over

and there was disarmament. trying to create peace and reconciliation. i got firsthand accounts of that particular war. when i read the novel i felt like it wasn't specific to any one nation. it is -- it tries not to go in the context of any country's history. it is more of a human story than a political story. charlie: were you more interested in the children or the militia leaders? cary: the children become the militia leaders. i think that i am interested in everything about it. how the cycle works. why these wars take place. why these children decide to join forces and leaders, these charismatic military types, what with their life be like had they want with different country and flight that -- and applied that to something more productive. charlie: your father was born in an internment camp. your grandfather was japanese. did the influence any of this career in movies and this desire to tell this story?

cary: it is funny, growing up i think it drove my grandparents crazy asking them questions about our family history, their lives. i think they felt there was nothing interesting or important about their life. charlie: you convince them otherwise? cary: final think i ever convince them. there was something about the mystery of it that i found intriguing. i don't know where my interest in storytelling came from. i would spend the entire day in the multiplex watching every movie. the travails of my family have definitely influenced and affected me and driven me as well in terms of knowing how much they sacrificed. charlie: are you in the back of your mind thinking about making the defining movie about the interment process and impact?

cary: i would love to tell that story. i am not sure we can talk about how the studio system is changing but in the current system i'm not sure how i could get that movie financed on the scale you would need to show these camps in the budget you need to make this movie. charlie: you were the director of the first season of "true detective," which i loved. it had an autuer feeling. it just was -- cary: it was a fun -- charlie: what was it for you? cary: in hindsight it was fun. during it was a difficult process. i had this naïve idea it would be much quicker to do then it was.

i don't think i really registered what a 450 page script meant in terms of what it was going to mean from me. with endurance and stamina. charlie: then you two great actors. cary: and they are in every scene. the whole thing rests on their shoulders. charlie: and then you get to work with idris elba, a huge powerful presence. as well as actor. why was he the instant choice for this? cary: he was pretty much the only choice. i was still shooting true detective. one of the producers was talking and waiting for set up to get done.

he says you should get idris elba to do it. i didn't think we would get it. a tiny budget, someone of his stature. his star was rising. the general public is becoming more aware of him. a lot of people think he is unattainable. i was able to get him on the phone. he signed on the phone call. charlie: in the phone call. cary: in the phone call. i got him on board. charlie: had he read it? cary: he read the script. the world was not beefed up as it was. charlie: you got a good actor. cary: he elevated what i wrote. i sort of made him a more central figure. having idris elba, and board changed the story and made it more of the father-son dynamic that developed. charlie: is at the dynamic of the movie? cary: i think so.

there are many dynamics taking place. biglie: that is one of the ones. car:y the patriarch system. charlie: what does he mean, the kid mean to him? what does he see? cary: at one point in the story he says to him, you remind me of me when i was younger. i don't think he is lying. he believes he sees something. but these children, i remember speaking to a minister of parliament when we were setting up the movie who was a commander and lord, and he said without any filtering, as if i was a journalist, child soldiers were his best soldiers. the most loyal, the most eager to please, the most fearless. i think it is the same thing.

he has all these young men and adults he is working with. there are the politics and a movement but the kids just do his bidding. there is a lot of power in that. charlie: do they see such gruesome things that it changes their soul, their psyche? cary: without a doubt. i don't think anyone who sees that violence, they are altered. i don't know, permanently. from those experiences. in abraham's case that is what it gets to, the heart of the

story when he is speaking to the aid worker. but it is what he says to her and what his experience has been so far. and the future is not certain. his optimism, he knows he will always carry that shadow. charlie: here's the scene between the commandant and him. >> my father and my brother -- i was going to run. into the woods. >> how does the commandant look? how does the commandant look? >> what are they calling you? you must say it like you are proud of. one more time. agu. >> well, that is what i will be calling you. leave this one under my charge.

i will be training him to be a warrior. charlie: there you go. you were moved there. cary: i was remembering the day. charlie: what were you remembering? cary: that was one of the first together. days they worked together. he was having a hard day. we had him walk through the valley. he hates snakes, terrified. his nerves were on edge from that. that scene we kept shooting over and over again. it was an oppressively hot day. it just rained the day before and you feel like you are in a sauna. you might as well have been on drugs. he really got emotional. it was the first time that i saw this kid can do it. i wasn't certain before that. we were shooting chronologically. charlie: this convinced you. cary: in the edit we just let

the camera run on him. eventually, idris is also amazing and we had to cut to him. charlie: what you are doing with netflix, you think this is where they are going? cary: i don't want to pretend i can see the future. i see from the writer-director's perspective, the amazing potential. i feel a we're back in the 1960's, shaking up the system in terms of hollywood and how movies are made. charlie: why is that? cary: you have a subscription service getting involved. which means the subscription service is the brand. the box office, when it comes into cinema is not the most critical factor to remaining in the cinema. that changes everything. charlie: because they have people pay eight dollars a month. thank you for coming.

cary: thank you for having me. charlie: see you next time. ♪

♪ francine: welcome to leaders with lacqua. earlier this year, pearson sold two of its most well known brands. in an exclusive interview i , speak with the group's ceo, john fallon about the impact of selling those established brands. thank you for speaking to bloomberg. we have been talking about the sale for as long as i can remember.