>> from our studios in new york city, this is "charlie rose." charlie: senator bernie sanders is a democrat in for the democratic nomination for president. he is down for his advocacy of greater economic equality for all americans. he refers to himself as a democratic socialist. he continues to draw huge crowds. he and secretary clinton spoke at the jefferson jackson dinner in iowa. senator sanders: today some are trying to rewrite history for

saying they voted for one anti-gay law. that is not the case. let me be clear about the current trade deal we are debating in congress, the transpacific partnership. that agreement is not now or has it ever been the gold standard of trade agreements. it gives me no joy to tell you that much of what he predicted about iraq turned out to be right. it does not give me any joy at all. that was a tough vote. i came to that fork in the road and i took a ride road, even though it was not popular at that time. i will not abandon any segment of american society, whether you are gay, or black, or latino, poor, working-class, just

because it is politically expedient at a given time. charlie: one line of attack is that hillary clinton has calmly to the policies he has long supported. i am glad to welcome you to the table at this time. that was clearly a portrait of hillary clinton, or at least some of the words that she has use. senator sanders: i have known hillary clinton for 25 years. i have enormous respect for her. she is a friend. but when you're running for president of the united states it is important to differentiate the differences between the candidates, and there are real differences between hillary clinton and i felt. i have been extremely consistent on my views for many, many years. on tpp, some people like it, some people do not. charlie: she described it as a gold standard. senator sanders: and i'm glad that years after i came out against it, she said i think it is a bad idea.

in terms of the keystone pipeline, i extremely worried, along with all of the scientists who have studied this issue with -- that climate change is already causing devastating problems, and it is only going to get worse unless we are bold in transforming our energy system. if you're going to be bold about transforming your energy system, you do not give one second thought to supporting the keystone pipeline, which is excavating and transporting some of the dirtiest fossil fuel on earth. you don't give a second thought. i oppose that from the very beginning. charlie: and she? senator sanders: she came around. i am glad that she finally came around. now she is in opposition to the keystone pipeline. in terms of wall street, you are looking at a guy who helped lead the opposition to the deregulation of wall street. wall street spent $5 billion to tell us what a great idea what

that idea it would be if the commercial banks and investment banks and insurance companies would merge. i never believed it. i believed that we need to reestablish glass-steagall, and i believe we need to break up these large financial institutions and i'm glad that , over hillary clinton has come out with some ideas about how you deal with wall street, but frankly do not go as far as they should. when you have banks with such economic and political power, we -- have the six largest institutions holding 60% of the power in the gdp. we have to break them up. charlie: anything she has not changed on that she should change on? senator sanders: it is not just about this issue or that issue. she recently came out -- i came about two months ago out against corporations running prisons. i understand that she has come out against that as well.

the issue to understand is what are the most important problems facing our country. they are huge. to me it comes down to the fact that it is not just income and wealth inequality. it is not just corporate control over the media. it is not only the fact that we have more people in jail than any other country on earth. it is not only that we have a campaign finance system which is corrupt. the real issue is who is going to stand up to all of that? who is going to take on the corporate interest and wall street and try to create a government that works for all the people in this country rather than a small number of billionaires? that is the issue. and if people hillary clinton is that candidate, they should vote for her. charlie: they think that she will stand up to those

establishment interests? senator sanders: look at my life's work him and you look at what my agenda is today. there is one candidate in this race who is in fact prepared to stand up to the billionaire class, to stand up to wall street, corporate america, the big-money interests who have been running a rigged economy in a corrupt campaign finance system. now people are satisfied with the establishment politics, you have a candidate. if you want real change, i am the candidate. charlie: people want to debate the idea of you as a socialist. you tell us exactly what you mean. are you more liberal and more progressive than other democrats who have been in the political race? senator sanders: good question. let me answer it in a couple of ways. for a start, to demystify the word socialist, we have a really

strong socialist senior program called social security. it has gone a long way to lowering poverty among seniors since roosevelt introduced it. we have well over 50 million people who were on social security. lyndon johnson introduced a very strong socialist program in the 1960's called medicare. we have a beautiful national park system owned by the people of the united states. we have a postal service owned by the people. if you go to your local library, the fire department, it is owned by the people. we have many socialist programs in the united states. charlie: socialist is defined as government ownership? sanders: people control all of those institutions. social security is a government program. medicare is a government program.

the veterans administration is a government program. charlie: money raised by taxpayers to fund those programs. senator sanders: i would not use the word entitlement. charlie: that is what they call them. senator sanders: ok. second of all, i think that there are a number of countries around the world that we can learn from you do a lot better job protecting the needs of their working people than we do. if you look at countries in scandinavia for example, denmark, norway, sweden. what do they have? first of all they guarantee health care to all of their people as a right. in fact every other major , country on earth guarantees as ah care to all people right, and they do it much more cost-effectively down we do. senator sanders: can the single-payer system do that for you? senator sanders? yes. it can. in terms of childhood poverty. shamefully we have one of the

, highest rates of childhood poverty of any major country on earth. countries which have had democratic socialist governments have much lower rates of childhood poverty. they have much better childcare systems. many countries around the world are doing what we should be doing right now, understanding that a college degree is equivalent to a high school degree. we should have free tuition in public colleges and universities. is, doesmany other i many other ideas, you know what many countries around the world , say it cannot continue to get huge tax breaks to the rich and have a massive income level inequality. charlie: those who make attacks on you would say that it is freedom, it is capitalism, democratic capitalism, that has enabled america to prosper. which you disagree with that? senator sanders: sure. of course i would. charlie: we would have been better off if we do not have democratic capitalism?

senator sanders: here is the point. capitalism plays a very important role. charlie: capitalism flourishes in a lot of places the call themselves democratic socialists. senator sanders: exactly. what is the difference between wet they are doing and what are doing. when we talk about prospering, let me break the bad news to you, most people in america today are not prospering. for 40 years the middle-class class of this country has been disappearing. there are tens of millions of people working longer hours for lower wages. people on top are doing phenomenally well. most others are not. charlie: which brings us to an adjusting point. of just going to the sense why and how you would create more income equality. we talk about income inequality, and we talk about what has

happened to the middle-class, a lot of people who do not call themselves democratic socialist talk about that all the time. joe biden is one of them. senator sanders: he's a good friend of mine. we are running on an agenda to deal with the issue of inequality. real unemployment today, as opposed to official unemployment, including those who have given up looking for work and working part-time is 10%. charlie: the number in terms of unemployment i given at around 5%? senator sanders: that's right. but if you includes those who have given up looking for work, it is 10%. african american youth unemployment for high school graduates is 51% unemployed and underemployed. charlie: i would assume that is unacceptable for all americans. senator sanders: good. we have some ideas on how to address it. and we have more people in jail than any other country. we have some ideas, that we

should invest in jobs and education for our young people rather than jails and incarceration. keep in on a on kids they are not dropping out of school. bring forth real criminal justice. we talk about the economy, this is what we have to do. we have to rebuild our crumbling infrastructure. roads bridges, rails, water , systems. we can create up to 13 million isn't paying jobs -- charlie: that doesn't require you to be a socialist to recommend that. people like larry summers recommends that. they have talked a lot about how we have to spend significantly more money in terms of infrastructure. senator sanders: good. charlie: in fact, that was part of the stimulus program? senator sanders: it was nowhere near enough. nowhere near enough. let me tell you what i believe

that you can determine what we mean by it. ok? charlie: i am the first person trying to argue away from the idea you are a socialist. senator sanders: if the argument is that i think we should take over every mom-and-pop store, that is not right. but if i believe that every person should get health care is a right, yes i do. charlie: do you believe the state should control your life? in terms of the state ought to be the arbiter of everything? senator sanders: of course not. i understand. charlie: there are those who see bernie sanders as a socialism think that is what he wants. senator sanders: when you have a middle class that is declining and we need to create millions of jobs rebuilding infrastructure. we need to make public colleges and universities tuition free. we need to raise the minimum wage to $15 an hour across america. charlie: they have done that in

some cities already. senator sanders: that's right. we need equal pay for women workers. we need to bring about bold criminal justice reform of this country. we need to create jobs by moving aggressively. maybe i'm not radical enough. i don't know what. charlie: a lot of people believe what you do about those issues, that too many people in jail, coming out, and not having a place to go, and they are back in jail. there are many people that believe the first step toward income equality is to increase the $15 an hour minimum wage. it has been enacted in certain cities already. these are not radical ideas. senator sanders: that's right. they are not radical ideas. i was just talking to a guy who said i went to the city university of new york 50 years ago. you know what i paid for tuition? $58 a term.

so the idea of making public colleges and universities tuition free when it exists in germany is not a radical idea. but in the context of politics today, it is a fairly radical idea. i give you another example. charlie: we have to go. senator sanders: we have a campaign-finance system that is a result of the supreme court decision on citizens united. it is corrupt and allows billionaires to buy elections. i believe that not only should we overturn citizens united, and no nominee of mine to the supreme court will get the nomination unless he or she makes it clear that they will -- charlie: hillary clinton believe as you do about citizens united? senator sanders: yes. and i believe that we need to not only overturn citizens united, we need to move the public funding elections. so that working-class people around this country, who want to

participate in the political process do not have to beg wealthy people for money. that would revolutionize this country and the politics of this country. charlie: you have been doing pretty well at fundraising. senator sanders: we have been doing very well, but we have been doing it differently than almost anybody else. charlie: in terms of growing up, and the influences on your life. you grew up in a jewish family? it is said you grew up with some sense of, there was tension of -- about money. is that fair? how did that shape you? senator sanders: a lot. i grew up in a 3.5 room apartment in a flatbush neighborhood of brooklyn rent-controlled apartment. ,my dad worked. we were never poor, but the truth is that we never had a whole lot of money. my mother's dream had been to own a home of her own, get out of the apartment and she never , achieve that, she died young.

buying anything, buying a jacket became a major production. how much money should we spend for the jacket? we can get it cheaper over here. money became an issue of tension in our household. and that is a lesson that have never forgotten. that all over this country now, there are people wondering today how they're going to keep the lights on, put gas in the car to get to work. i understand that. charlie: or they say to the kids that you cannot eat today. senator sanders: that's right. there are 47 million people living hungry in this country. we have people who are working hard and cannot afford to feed their families. my upbringing has given me a lesson that i have not forgotten and has had a great impact. charlie: what was it about your dad that made you admire him? sanders: he was a great man, a bold man courageous man. ,if you listen to his vision of what he wanted to do wanted to , create a world and a nation in

which all people had opportunity, and when he was working you had people in the mines, people in factories working under horrendous conditions. and he organize them and stood up and said what we have to say today in many respects we're not going to bring about the changes , we need unless we are willing to stand up to the wealthy. is not talked about often appeared we are the wealthiest country in the history of the world today, why do we have 47 million people living in poverty? well, because you have agreed in this country. you have a ruling class once it all. who want it all. you have people on top, who are so wealthy, and they spend millions of dollars to try to destroy social security, medicare, medicaid, more tax breaks for the rich. you have an incredible level of

greed, and we aceto for the last -- and as we have seen for the last 30 or 40 years. the result is very rich get much richer. almost everyone else gets poor er. charlie: the savage attack is what? senator sanders: opposition to trade unions, effort to destroy the trade union movement. opposition to the minimum wage. a series of trade policies which in fact resulted in the loss of tens of thousands of factories in this country, so that we now have walmart as the largest private-sector employer rather than general motors who paid workers a decent wage. charlie: you remember what henry ford did? he paid them a decent wage because he wanted them to buy fords. senator sanders: that's right. they think that citizens united does not go far enough. they want to move toward a system where there are no campaign regulations, so that the koch brothers themselves can buy candidates.

you want to run for office? here is you work for me. $100 million. of those add up to eight massive attack on working families. charlie: do you think all candidates are corruptible? senator sanders: i know that money has nothing to do with it. i have heard them all saying we are getting millions of dollars and it does not influence me at all. do i believe that of course not? , charlie: did bill clinton and barack obama take money from wealthy citizens? with a corrupted by that? senator sanders: i saying the system is corrupt. why do you think? ready -- a lot of people want to change the way we finance campaigns. john mccain, your friend in the senate wanted reform campaign , spending. senator sanders: yes, he did.

we have to be honest. i think the reason we are doing so well in this campaign, you know why, charlie? because we are talking about the struggle and straightforward way about the real issues that impact the american people. the campaign financing system is corrupt. anyone wants to deny it, anyone wants to think that would billionaires are going to spend and their friends are going to spend $900 million on this campaign in order to elect extreme right-wing candidates, that is corrupt. charlie: some things you have had to encounter. because you are the senator from per month, what is the african-american population? 5%.lie: mostly african-american. charlie: they say that while you talk about too many african-americans in jail, and you talk about how we need to change the system, but somehow you have not connected.

my question is has it has to be , something in this campaign that you realized you had to address? senator sanders: let me say, when you run a campaign taking on the economic establishment, the political establishment and the corporate media establishment, that is a tough fight. we started this campaign six months ago, and we were 4 percent. 80% of the american people did not who i was. ♪

dorlie: in a broader sense, you believe that they are an exceptional country? senator sanders: of course. my father came to this country at the age of 17 without a nickel in his pocket. obedient life for his family, sent his two kids to college. so, yes, and we have brought people together. charlie: we are exceptional more europe, scandinavia? senator sanders: we have done exceptional things all over the world. charlie: an exceptional place, and that is the reason so many people want to come here? senator sanders: of course we are an exceptional place. charlie: do you therefore want to reform america, or do you want to create a revolution in america, and use that in terms of radical. let me tell you

something, i think what we want to do is build on our strengths, which are many. we also want to deal with our imperfections which are many. ,charlie: which are primarily economics, as i hear you? it is a 99% and 1% as i hear you. senator sanders? it is not a small issue senator sanders: it is not a small issue. when you have almost all new wealth going to the top 1%, when you have in the last election to 3% of the people not voting, and give more people in jail for any other country, we have some serious problems that have to be addressed. what i mean by a political revolution is to say that no president of the united states, not bernie sanders, not hillary clinton, not anybody else, is going to be able to take on the power of wall street and corporate america and the corporate media by himself or herself. it ain't going to happen. anybody who tells me vote for me i will solve all the problems, is not telling you the truth.

the only way we will bring change is when millions of people come together in an organized way, and they say essentially enough is enough and maybe the government of the united states should represent us and not just the very wealthy , which is currently the case. charlie: why did you decide to run? senator sanders: i have four kids and seven beautiful grandchildren. in the united states senate as -- senate, it is said that every morning people brushed her teeth and see a president. charlie: when did it happen? senator sanders: it happened, i have these seven beautiful i think about and the enormous problems. we have not talked about climate change, and the fact that if we do not get out -- these are the problems we are facing. scientists tells we may not have much of a planet. charlie: how would you invite wait what president obama has

done to address climate change. senator sanders: he has run up against right-wing structures every step of the way. i know he takes this issue very seriously. to your point, when you asked about a revolution, of course it -- i want a revolution. i want a political revolution and i'm not content with 63% of , the people not voting. i want to create a vibrant democracy. do you think we are a vibrant democracy today? i don't think we are. the only way we transform america is when millions of people to become active in the political process. i think what is necessary to get them involved in to talk to them in a way that most politicians do not. and to also say that it is not just enough for us to what to do this and that, but we have to have the courage to do what many people feel uncomfortable about talking about. that is called taking on the billionaire class. real change will not happen unless we do that. if we do not do that, in my

view, the rich will continue to get richer, everybody else will continue to get poorer. charlie: and a lot of them are democrats? sanders: some of them may well be. i do not know that many wealthy people. [laughter] senator sanders they don't : contribute to my campaign. charlie: warren buffett is a wealthy man. senator sanders: he is a democrat, you are right. but in terms of the political process, you have right-wing republicans like the koch brothers and their friends, they dominate the amount of money coming into the political race. but here is the point, the problems we face are enormous. if we are going to prevent this country from sliding into oligarchy, we need to bring people together. my campaign is yes i want to be president of the united states, obviously. but equally important is the need to create that movement of people who will stand with me when we say to wall street you

are going to have to -- charlie: did you run because of your own personal ambition or you didn't see anybody who was prepared to go out and articulate the values and the urgency that you were prepared to do? senator sanders: i think at this moment, charlie, to be honest with you, it is too late for a establishment politics. the problems are too serious. i look around and i see very bright candidates. hillary clinton, a lot of experience, an extraordinarily intelligent woman, but we need to go beyond establishment politics. charlie: so she is by definition an establishment politician? senator sanders: she thinks she is an establishment politician. who doesn't think somebody who touts every day the support from another establishment figure -- i think you would consider that an establishment politician.

charlie: do you having establishment figures supporting your campaign? senator sanders: not a lot, some. charlie: here is a quote. i think we have to rethink our current financial system and the way wall street functions. rethink. senator sanders: yes. right now we bailed out wall , street, whose greed, recklessness and illegal behavior brought us into the worst economic downturn since the great depression. we bailed them out. they came crawling to congress. charlie: people like ben bernanke and a lot of other people have come to this table to say that if we had not bailed them out, the whole system would have collapsed. would you have preferred the system to collapse? : that's a fair? question, let me get to it. they destroyed the economy and

they said please bail us out. that's number one. you may know, i don't know how many of your listeners know, but three of the four largest banks today are significantly bigger today than they were when we bailed them out. significantly bigger. the six largest financial institutions in this country have assets equivalent to 60% of the gdp of america. they issued two thirds of the credit cards and one third of the mortgages in this country. charlie: what do you do, break them up? senator sanders: absolutely. we have to reestablish glass-steagall and we have to break them up. not bernie sanders. if teddy roosevelt was alive today and you have that concentration of wealth, what you think teddy roosevelt would have said? he would have said break them up, and he would have been right. give more support to community banks and credit unions. charlie: where do you differ from secretary clinton on that issue? does she want to break up wall street? does she want to break up financial power? senator sanders: no. charlie: she says she does. senator sanders: no she doesn't.

nobody in the world is not running against wall street. but, no, in terms of glass-steagall, she does not support the reestablishment of glass-steagall. she does not. charlie: when dodd-frank came along there was the opportunity to reestablish glass-steagall and they did not do it. senator sanders: so what? charlie: they had a chance to do it. senator sanders: democrats had a chance to do a lot of things that they didn't do. the point is i believe we should reestablish glass-steagall. warren believes we should reestablish glass-steagall. charlie: stop right there. elizabeth warren and you. she is closer to you in things you believe in than anyone else in the political spectrum and -- in the democratic party. so the answer is yes. in the senate, but also in terms

of people who are in elective office or people in a commanding position. senator sanders: elizabeth is doing a good job as a senator from massachusetts. charlie: the she support you? senator sanders: you have to ask elizabeth warren. she is a good ally of mine on many issues, yes. here is the point. they spent $5 billion in lobbying and campaign contributions. to deregulate wall street in general. and that is why i believe that anyone who thinks that congress regulates wall street got it backwards. it is wall street that significantly regulates the congress, and you need a political revolution to take them on because they have so much power. charlie: but if you took them on, it would be to break them up. what else would you do? what else would you do to reduce the power of wall street? campaign-finance reform is one thing.

you would reestablish glass-steagall. which separates investment banking from commercial banking as we know it. there are two things. what else would you do to break them up? help us understand. senator sanders: breaking them up is breaking them up. charlie: that is sufficient? senator sanders: and then what you do is you provide significant help and support for community banks and for credit unions. institutions that are part of communities. what is the major problem with wall street? it is not just that the business model is flawed. that in my view is true. the problem is that they live in a world unto themselves. they are not part of communities trying to create jobs. they are trying to make as much money as they can for themselves. they are an island unto themselves. charlie: you see nothing good that those financial institutions are doing? senator sanders: i think they have done horrific destruction to this country. charlie: horrific destruction to

this country? in terms of the financial recession of 2008? senator sanders: what they did, charlie, in their greed and recklessness and illegal behavior -- and i'm not the first person to say this. we find it very strange that kids who smoke marijuana end up with a criminal record, and yet people that who destroyed the economy, millions lost their homes and life savings. you tell me -- charlie: ben bernanke said he is surprised in terms of action been taken against corporations and not individuals. senator sanders: isn't that shocking? well, i'm not surprised. again you have criminal justice , that make sure some black guy driving a car may go to prison -- get a prison record because he forgot to make a left turn, but people who destroyed the economy don't end up in jail. i am not surprised. that is part of an economic system where small numbers of

people have incredible power. the banks are not just too big to fail, the bankers are too big to jail. this is a real problem. charlie: are they too big to fail? : oftor sanders course. we have got to break them up for that reason. if they were too big to fail in 2007, what do you think they are now? charlie: before you go, i want to talk about national security. how would you change national security policy in the united states? you made a clear point at the dinner in iowa that you voted against the iraq war and you understood -- and you want to point out what the consequences of that war have been. my question is, what would you do and how would you change u.s. defense policy? senator sanders it is a crazy : world out there. anyone who sits in this chair and tells you they have a magical solution about how you deal with syria, afghanistan,

russia, iraq, is pretty crazy. these are the principles i operate on. number one, we have the largest most powerful military in the world. what we want to do is use military force as a last resort, not a first resort. what bush proposed in iraq was a disaster, leading to all kinds of unintended consequences which we are dealing with today. number two, instead of unilateral action, we have a working coalition as best we can with arab countries in the middle east, with western europe. we should not be going it alone. charlie: you think we are going it alone now? is president obama going it alone? that is part of what he has tried to do. senator sanders: it ain't easy. charlie: you are essentially in agreement with the approach to the middle east that president obama has articulated. senator sanders: yes, i think president obama in incredibly

complicated and difficult circumstances has tried to do a few things. number he has tried to make sure one, we do not continue to see young men and women in this country get killed. i went to a lot of funerals in vermont. broke my heart. we lost a lot of young men in iraq and afghanistan. i haven't gone to too many funerals lately, and i'm happy about that. number two, he has been trying to extricate our troops from combat and he has succeeded in doing that. he is providing some support in those countries in order to train, whether it is the afghan or iraqi army, and i think we need to do that. charlie: he said he's going to leave more americans in afghanistan. and some say it was because he recognized that it was a mistake not to leave more americans in iraq. senator sanders: he tried to do the right thing. it is complicated and difficult stuff. what you don't want to do is give weaponry to someone

essentially to fight isis and you find out they are fighting you. charlie: or they wind up in the hands of some other group. would you cut the defense budget 30% and reestablish priorities and spend that on some of the social welfare priorities? senator sanders? i don't use the word social welfare. i don't think education is social welfare or health care is social welfare. every politician talks about waste and fraud. you know the one agency of the federal government that has not been able to undertake an independent audit? it is the department of defense. i would do that audit and find out whether in fact we need 5000 nuclear weapons, whether we need military bases all over the world to defend countries that in some cases are wealthier -- then we are. charlie: like south korea? senator sanders: i would tell you that almost every defense

contractor has brought forth weapon systems where there were massive cost overruns. i think you want to take a look at that as well. i know what the f 35 is. you don't vote for one weapons system. charlie: what do you regret most about your service in the senate? senator sanders: well, you know, i wish that -- i voted for the affordable care act, and we managed -- one of the provisions i got in there was $11 billion to expand community health centers all over this country, providing high-quality care to low income and working-class families. i should have pushed harder to get more money because we have a major crisis in primary care in this country.

we need more primary care doctors and nurses. i wish i had done more on that. charlie: as you know the wall , street journal had an article about you, and wind it looked at how much it cost to do all the things you wanted to do and it came to trillions of dollars. i have forgotten. senator sanders: $18 trillion, i remember. charlie: yes, you do. were they right? senator sanders: no. that was the wall street journal after all. let me tell you what they did. where they got it right and where they got it wrong. of the $18 trillion that they talked about, $15 trillion were in health care. what they said is sanders is proposing medicare single player program that's going to cost approximately over 10 years. $15 trillionwhat did they forget to say in the article? that you would not be paying private health insurance at all. you might be paying more in taxes but you and your ploy he

, -- your employer would not be paying any private health insurance and virtually every , study done on this issue suggest that a single-payer system is far more cost effective than the dysfunctional health-care system we have right now dominated by private companies. we save money by moving to a single payer. they also pointed out that i want to spend a trillion dollars rebuilding the infrastructure. that is right. we do that by eliminating tax breaks where corporations can stash their money in the cayman islands. we do want to see public colleges and universities tuition free. we do that based on a tax on wall street speculation. they got it wrong on the health care issue. charlie: would you reduce the corporate income tax? senator sanders: no, of course not. charlie: even if you could eliminate some of the deductions, would you reduce the rates? senator sanders: this is what i will tell you. sorryrs ago -- in 1952, corporations were paying over , 30% of the taxes of the

federal government. today there paying around 10%. you have a number of major corporations that are paying zero federal income tax. charlie: is it because of all the deductions? senator sanders: all the loopholes, i would call it. charlie: fair enough. senator sanders we've got to : eliminate the loopholes, and that's what my legislation does. ♪ buddy- nice place, nice car what happened?

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charlie: the biggest misconception about you? senator sanders: that i'm a grumpy guy. you can see that i am a very pleasant, happy fellow. charlie: i did 60 minute profile on larry david. you like to that, the idea of what larry did, and the notion of being in the public arena now, as you are in a much more visible way, and from saturday night live programs. it is kind of nice, isn't it? senator sanders i thought larry : david's tv show was hysterically funny. i'm not a great fan of tv, but i thought he was a very funny guy. charlie: take a look at this. here it is? >> how would you each differentiate yourself run the obama administration? >> for me, i am an outsider, anderson i'm the only candidate up here who is not a billionaire. i don't have a super pac.

i don't even have a backpack. i carry my stuff around loose in my arms like a professor. you know, between i own one pair classes. of underwear. that's it. some of these billionaires have three or four pairs. i don't have a dryer. i have to put my clothes on the radiator. who do you want as president? one of these washington insiders, or a guy who has one pair of clean underwear that he dries on a radiator? [laughter] bernie sanders.com, check it out. it's a mess. charlie: you love that. senator sanders: very funny. he is very good. charlie: so you are elected president. the first five things you want to do our? your first days in office? your first 100 days? senator sanders: we are going to bring forth a series of very progressive legislation.

by the way, if i'm elected president, it will mean there's a very significant increase in the voter turnout. it will mean it is likely republicans will not be controlling the senate and maybe not even controlling the house. that is what a larger turnout will do. republicans lose, and democrats win. what do we do? we bring forth a progressive agenda, everything i've been talking about in his campaign. we will raise the minimum wage to $15 an hour. that is legislation that is going in. we will demand that the wealthy and large corporations start paying their fair share of taxes. charlie: from what to what. senator sanders i cannot give : you a specific number. we will have a tax on wall street speculation. we will do away with a loophole that allows corporations to stash their money tax-free in the cayman islands, and we will have a progressive estate tax. i want to make it more progressive. if we have more progressive personal income tax, we will have legislation that makes

public colleges and universities tuition free. we will also deal very aggressively with climate change and with campaign finance. those are some areas initially. charlie: what is the lesson you learned in this campaign so far? senator sanders: it's very hard to talk about issues with the media that sees politics as soap opera and entertainment. charlie: so this is a rare experience for you? senator sanders: absolutely. to be on a show for 40 minutes and talk about issues is really hard. i don't want to make a blanket criticism, but by and large, it is the soap opera of what has been said today. has chris christie gotten thrown off the quiet car today. did marco rubio through a football that hit somebody.

the american middle class for 40 years has been disappearing. 29 million americans have no health insurance. we have a grotesque level of income and wealth inequality. we have a corrupt campaign finance system. and the world's future is being endangered by climate change that the republican party refuses to acknowledge. think we should be talking about those issues? should we also be talking about a system in america that has created in silicon valley leaders in the world of technology, which is a huge contributor to an economy of the future. should we be talking about the level of entrepreneurship and what incentives there are for people to create jobs build , businesses and create jobs? should we be talking about the idea of freedom and individual freedom?

senator sanders: so let's talk about it. the answer is yes, and let's talk about individual freedom. you're looking at a united states former congressman, i voted against the patriot act because i was very concerned , about the power we were giving to government and in addition, corporate america to know everything about your life. i don't feel comfortable that every phone call you make is being tracked someplace. there are corporations that know more about you than you think they know. we need public policy to keep up -- catch up with the explosion of technology. to answer your question, is there a lot about this country that is fantastic that the rest of the world is looking to us, ? of course, we should be very proud of it. but we should also understand that there's something wrong with 40% of african-american kids in america living in poverty. and almost all new income and wealth is going to the people on top. charlie: the challenge is how do

we maximize what is great about america, that has put us in a place in a remarkable time since the founding of this country. at the same time, which parts of able too many people to be in poverty, in prison, too many people not to have medical care and too many people not to be , able to see that their kids have a better opportunity than they had to buy into, to engage in the american dream? , senator sanders: what any sensible proposition is, you look at what we've been doing well. we are doing a lot well. you look at what we are not doing well. you try to figure out how we make it better. not the debates taking place on the campaign trail so far? sanders: the media is

not interested. what the media is more interested in -- i use the word, how much money did you raise and what's the latest poll, did you say something stupid? you are right. this country does a lot that we should be very proud of, and build on. but i think where we see a little bit differently, it's not just different ideas. there's a power structure in america which is based on greed. these guys have it. it's not like sitting down and saying how do we create a better economy? i don't think that is their goal. they have enormous power and enormous wealth. they want more power and wealth. they are willing to step on a lot of middle-class and working class people in order to get more. that's where we are. charlie: we do share this belief. and i'm not sure that we differ on a lot of things. we do share this belief the idea , that the middle class has been threatened.

senator sanders: no, not threatened. it has been virtually destroyed over the last 40 years. charlie: 40 years goes back to 1973. senator sanders: it started in 1973, i think. the question we have to ask ourselves, there's been an explosion of technology, right? we all produce a lot more. this television studio is a lot different than the studio was 40 years ago. we can do a lot of incredible things. why is it that with all that increase of technology and productivity, most people in the country are working longer hours for lower wages? i'm not interviewing you. you are supposed to be interviewing me. those are the kinds of problems. look at what pope francis is saying. is it moral that so few have so much and so many have so little? it is a moral issue. let's debate that issue. i don't think people feel comfortable that the top 1/10 of 1% on as much as the bottom 90%.

do you think american should be like that? i don't. charlie: i think a lot of americans would agree with that. senator sanders: i know they would. charlie: thank you for coming. senator sanders: thank you very much for having me. charlie: thank you for joining me. see you next time. ♪

apple sees a record holiday season. alibaba has for its best month since listing. sales jumped by a third.

gears.fting changes to a 16-year alliance with renault. let us know what you think of today's business by following me on twitter. let's take a look at the markets now with sherry. a lot of risk. people in the sidelines ahead of the the or j meeting. sherry: there's no clear direction on the markets today. fewstors are waiting a factors today. personal, negative sentiment coming from wall street as markets declined across the board on mixed on news. people are cautious because of the fed in the boj coming in this week. so we see the shanghai composite following after rising for fo