announcer: from our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose. is the headan meyer football coach at ohio state university. the buckeyes are the defending national champions. he is one of two coaches to win a national championship at two different schools. he had previously won two titles at the university of florida. ohio state defeated oregon in the first-ever college football playoff last season. that run was made possible in the arm of a third string quarterback. he writes about last year's team and much more in "above the

line." i am pleased to have him at this table for the first time. welcome. let's talk about the title. leadershipve this consultant and we became very close. we have very similar philosophies on live and it became -- it came about -- every day there is a line in life and you either live above it or below it. below the line is impulsive and autopilot. dealingntele we are with, you have to live your life above the line and it is not easy. charlie: is there a place in this for spontaneity, instinct, acting in the moment? urban: absolutely, but it has to be taught.

self-discipline, self-respect, incredible work ethic. there spontaneity is right on target. for the average joe, it is not good most of the time. for the highly trained people, hopefully, spontaneity has put them in the right position. charlie: some of the best jazz musicians have been well schooled in every aspect of music. jazz is something they can go to because they have a grounding in good music. urban: i would like to think that football players is no different than a highly trained jazz musician. taught to perform above the line. that is a lot of what college football is, reactionary moments on the field. charlie: do teach a lot of fundamentals? your predecessor used to say, 30

yards and a cloud of dust. urban: i love the way you put that. some of the elite performers are spontaneous, you cannot coach what some of these incredible athletes to. .- athletes do we fill your toolbox with fundamentals and let you play with reckless abandon. this is a story they tell from texas. why are you spending so much time on that? you have never had to hit that shot. and he said, someday i will and i want to be ready. tell me about the championship season. there were some people who thought oregon was going to be you. urban: we were the six point underdog against alabama.

in the final game, we were a touchdown -- touchdown underdog. it was a logical to do what we did. we did.ical to do it we endured a tragedy, a young player on our team committed suicide. there were so many reasons why we should not do what we were doing. the inner workings of this team, i am not quite sure i have ever been around anything like that before. charlie: it was because they came together? urban: they loved each other, they cared about each other. we worked so hard and to see it come to fruition -- charlie: that is what they teach in the military, too. urban: we use as often as possible examples from the united states military. is there another greater form of

motivation? there is nothing quite like it. charlie: and you can teach this. urban: i cannot teach it by myself. i have a group of leaders. their job is to get their unit to perform at the maximum capacity. we are getting close again. we are not there yet. nine units are operating at full capacity. charlie: what is your record so far? urban: we are getting close. maximum capacity. there is still something left. our players know it. we are not hitting on all cylinders, but we do not have to yet. play within --

perform -- ed to charlie: you always need to have something extra to push through at times. urban: absolutely. that is the term we use, maximum capacity. always something left in the tank. charlie: what do you look for in terms of well-rounded, in terms of being fully developed human beings at that age? urban: the number one thing i look for is a competitive spirit. a competitive spirit and a person of character, you can't teach that person to move mountains. the greatest competitor i have ever coached is tim tebow. checkers orplayed

ping-pong, you are not getting out of that game until he wins. it just rubs off on people. charlie: he has a strong religious component to his life. urban: it is all real and i have witnessed it. he goes to work every day with a purpose. charlie: i do not know him, but i would ask the question, why hasn't he delivered in the pros? urban: i am not a pro coach, so i do not quite understand. it is a different game. maybe it is a skill set of throwing the football. they do not run their quarterbacks like we do in college. it has nothing to do with competitive spirit. charlie: he has tried as hard as he possibly could? is it a lack of skill? urban: that is what i am hearing. charlie: you are hearing it?

you coached him 14 of you owed championship series. urban: i still think he can. charlie: if you were a pro coach today, you would want him as your quarterback? urban: in a second. charlie: but he cannot throw the ball. he is not tom brady and he is not peyton manning. urban: he is the second most efficient passer of all time. charlie: help me understand why he cannot pass in the pros. urban: i am not an expert. charlie: yes, you can. if it is teachable, he would have learned. urban: he has worked for chip kelly and belichick. charlie: your conclusion is? urban: goodness.

if i went to the pros, i would go get tim in a new york minute. he is a winner and he brings people with him. charlie: but he has had a chance in the pros. several times. if tim called you and said, coach, you and i had some great times together. you were there for me and i was there for you and we won. what would you say? we have hadurban: that conversation. he has had opportunities to move on. i tell him to keep swinging as hard as you possibly can. -- ihat this final chapter think his pro-opportunities are going to diminish. to look fore has out -- look out for himself and

i don't want to see him go into a situation where he has no chance for success. tell me about florida state and you. urban: florida. charlie: bobby was at florida state when you were there. urban: i love him. great person. we had a great run, six years. --went to championships -- 2 we won two championships. there is a special place in my heart for the 40 gators. -- for the florida gators. charlie: i asked you this morning, what happened before you took a year off? you decided to investigate

leadership and you decided to talk to leaders and coaches you admired and find out what common denominator was there. you to that? what happened? urban: well, we were having tremendous success, a 22 game win streak. a great friend of mine passed away of a heart attack and i started having these chest pains. every year, i would get checked out and they would always come back and say your heart is fine. i did not feel right. charlie: you did the stress test. urban: inside-out and upside-down. one night, i went down. charlie: your wife found you on the floor. urban: it was a bad situation. charlie: bad situation because?

urban: i don't know. i did not feel right and i thought i was putting my family in harms way. i started evaluating why. why am i doing this? this is going to kill you. charlie: you are neglecting your health? urban: i have always been a good workout guy. in the last year and a half, i did not. charlie: you thought it was necessary to spend all of that time to win. ambieni had to take an and drink a beer on top of that to get to sleep because i was so obsessed. i felt god was tapping me on the shoulder. you need to step away from it.

charlie: he put you on the floor to tell you. ♪

charlie: to be number one in college football? urban: to be perfect. nevert and floor to, they -- perfect in florida, they

never had an undefeated season. but we lost that game in alabama and the perfection was shattered. charlie: you thought you were a failure? urban: i think we failed. we failed. charlie: 22-0 and you failed. urban: it was madness. it was out of control. charlie: they had stories -- they have stories about this. coaches who sleep at the gym, fall asleep watching film. urban: i did a little homework on you. you are perfectionist and you work until you cannot work anymore. i really believe, and so does everybody, there has to be some kind of balance. i fervently believe i

have worked too hard. e in having believ a well-rounded life and doing other things. playing sports is important to me. books sense of enjoying and movies. imagine if that was gone from you for a period of time. there was nothing there other than the relentless pursuit of perfection. charlie: i believe in the relentless pursuit of perfection, i really do. i believe in being as good as you possibly can. bethe same time, you cannot the thing that drives your life. i agree. how did you recover?

urban: i stepped away. i thought i was done for good when i stepped away. about two months into it, i am on a walk with my wife and i said, i cannot do this. i miss it so bad. she looked at me and said, you are nuts. please give it time. i am very close to my children. tv.s all set to just go on way, -- touesday stay away. and then my homeschool called. they went through a complete program. charlie: we need you and only you can do this for us and we are family? urban: and it is your home. charlie: and you need to give

back to your home. urban: that is kind of how it took place. decided to come back. did you change the way you behave? did you? urban: absolutely i did. staying above the line is every day and i have a lot of mechanisms in my life. charlie: you just said to me is the goal this year is to be perfect. you are 8-0. urban: i never said the goal was to be perfect. maximum capacity. charlie: the difference is the point you want to make. urban: maximum capacity is being as good as you can possibly be. charlie: beyond the of session

with perfection -- obsession with perfection, you know a whole lot about football. as belichick does. i saw the jets yesterday and that was unbelievable. they played well in the first tab. all of a sudden, in the fourth quarter, they could not stop brady for a second. belichick, chip kelly, they do know football, that they know the human spirit. -- but they know the human spirit. i do know the human spirit and i trust and believe in the human spirit. charlie: getting the maximum amount out of his players. having this players that can

literally -- he says -- coach on the court. leaders are the assistant coaches and we pick a unit leader of every group and we expect them to lead. charlie: motivating people, recruiting, and discipline. above the line. it is also -- you know something . you know something about the game. urban: i know a lot about the game. i have had mentors who have guided me. i love football, i love the strategic part of it. i have been around some incredible people with knowledge of the game of football. they cannot transfer that knowledge and get the player to go it maximum capacity. charlie: one of the reasons why

some great players cannot become great coaches. urban: the greatest coaches are the ones who struggled athletically. they had to work so hard for everything they had. charlie: they knew what they wanted, but could not get their. -- get there. what do you want to do with your life now? i want to see young people do things they never thought they could do. charlie: what did you learn when you talked to all of these people? youn: when i was younger, get so in a cocoon because you are so paranoid people will steal what you know. -lifeout about work

balance. profession, you were soft, if you spent time with your family. i went on a mission. makes to find out what these great programs. the one thing that is the common denominator in all of these great programs, chip kelly's greatest gift is the ability to make all believe this is the only way to do it. bill belichick's greatest gift is the fact he has everyone within the organization -- everyone believes that his system is the way to do it. i call that alignment.

top to bottom. that is a full-time job. it is so fluid. charlie: belichick is a defensive genius. you are a what genius? urban: i do not like to use the word genius. you created this spread offense. explain that to me. urban: it is all about equating numbers, not running a bad play. if they have extra people in the box, you don't. force the defense to fend horizontally and vertically. athletic quarterback helps you with that. charlie: you like one who can move around. urban: you need an athletic quarterback. charlie: isn't that the quarterback of today?

urban: it tells you how hard it is. when you say brady and manning, that is why there are only a couple of them. stand in apeople great team,st a knowing where everybody is that -- the quarterback has to be an exceptional leader. he takes the snap and within two 6'6" man trying to rip your head off, you need to identify the defense. it is so complicated, that part of the game. deliver the ball on time, all within two seconds. identify the movement and deliver the ball. in of the hardest skills

football. that is why there are so few pocket passers better great. charlie: -- passers that are great. they do it all the time. they know it is coming. urban: he is that exceptional. .wice i watched the patriots i cannot believe what i saw. charlie: he was not a top draft choice. urban: phenomenal. charlie: that says there is an x-factor. urban: and with what coach belichick has done with him.

he took a six rounder and made him a hall of fame quarterback. charlie: we talked about whether we needed to do something about making it safer. from the nfl to college to high school. urban: i was not aware this morning of what happened. horrible. took my breath away. i have a son that is 16 years old and played high school football. it is horrible. i do believe football is as safe as it has ever been and i know that sounds irrational to the families that it happened to. the rules are in place to make it a safer game. the equipment is safer. when you asked me that this morning, i was not in touch. i did not research until i walked out of your room.

and it hit home. charlie: have you seen every game he plays. urban: the majority of them, that is above the line behavior. charlie: what is the last movie you went to see? urban: every christmas, we do a family movie. , everybodyban meyer has to find their own balance. they really do. this is a starting point. urban: that is my journey. i do not like talking about myself. charlie: hello. urban: i am not comfortable talking about those things. charlie: thank you for coming. urban: an honor to meet you. charlie: i have to come to ohio

state to see a football game. back in a moment, stay with us. ♪ ♪

(ee-e-e-oh-mum-oh-weh) (hush my darling...) (don't fear my darling...) (the lion sleeps tonight.) (hush my darling...) man snoring (don't fear my darling...) (the lion sleeps tonight.) woman snoring

take the roar out of snore. yet another innovation only at a sleep number store. charlie: richard holbrook died on december 13, 2010. he was an american diplomat, assistant secretary of state, peace corps officer, and author. he was a friend of this show. he appeared close to 50 times.

diplomat airs on hbo monday, november 2. here is the trailer for the film. >> this is dad spoke. my father's career as a diplomat spanned 50 years of american foreign-policy. >> those who travel into dangerous areas take great risks. >> he was brilliant, demanding. >> he knew where he was going and no one should get in his way. >> what is the bottom line? he said, it cannot work. >> realized my father was an historical figure.

charlie: i am pleased to welcome david holbrook to the stage. david: a little weird not to have my father here. i wish you were here. charlie: you went in search of your father. at the kennedy center memorial. this incredible array of washingtonians, hillary clinton and barack obama and president clinton. i really did see him as an historical figure for the first time. when he was around, we had a lot of fun. he loved to go to movies and enjoy himself. i sat there and to see the president sit there for 2.5 hours a listen to people talk about them, it changed my perspective. final teamore his gathered and they told stories about a guy i did not know.

they were talking about traveling with him and these crazy yellow pajamas that he wore. it made me think, who is this guy? it was a journey film. it took me 29 different countries and we interviewed -- it took me to nine different countries and we interviewed 75 people. i think his impact and what ago,ned in bosnia 20 years and what he did in vietnam, china, all of these different things was seminal and his impact -- i threw it through the eyes of these luminaries. lauding him and caring about him. charlie: i knew him very well. one of the interesting things about him, and i saw him the week before.

he came to the new york where there was an event, a party for somebody. we walked across to the four seasons and we were talking about an appearance on my show and whether the white house would let him appear. i would say, it is not them, it is you. it was an interesting moment and then he was gone. david: just like that. it was striking because he never became secretary of state, which is the job he always wanted. his impact was greater than a lot of secretaries of state. warren christopher died a couple of months after my father. my father, because he was still in the game, it was news. -- richardthings

holbrook does not die. he is the most alive man most of us have ever met. the vitality was so shocking. he did not look well. you are a good friend and i wish more people had and i wish he had listened. he did not eat well. his office was on the first floor of the state department down the hall from the cafeteria. the big thing was the stress and that was paramount. wasou know anybody who under more pressure than my father when you saw him? i think the pressure on him was coming from the impossible task he had. he said to me, i know how to be secretary of state. i know how to be hillary's

deputy, but they have given me the hardest job in the administration. -- by manylinton metrics he did have the hardest job. it was hard enough dealing with the intransigence of pakistan and afghanistan, but he had enormous pressure coming from the white house. charlie: he was protected by the secretary of state. she saved his job more than twice. the constant drumbeat of disaffection and the frustration that he had over the white house and the white house had with him was creating an untenable situation. charlie: what i can say about him as far as a friendship, his remarkable record, he wanted to be where the action was.

i suspect he loved the job that he had, in part. even though it was difficult. he was not exactly in sync with the white house. the most important thing, he was one of those people that you would have liked as a journalist to see what they would have done as the nation's most important foreign-policy official. it would have been interesting. he had this personality that often clashed with a range of people. to see that man as secretary of state would have been a fascinating process. david: not to mention his vision. ability to unusual be able to see far away, but understand how to get there. some people can do one or to the other. film.e: let me show you a

this is hillary clinton speaking about afghanistan. was a big gap in our military commitment and our diplomatic commitment in afghanistan. pressdid not make a full on the diplomatic front, we would not know whether or not there could be some kind of negotiated ending. >> the military dominated everything. for your dad to show up, this high energy brilliant, funny, engaging diplomat who knew the region and was ready to push everyone else out of the way, it was really great to see. the relationship with secretary clinton? david: it was deep and i really

think they had known each other for the clinton years, they had stayed in touch during the bush years. she trusted him. she saved his job more than twice. she believed in his ability to execute and all the things he brought to the table and was willing to say it was richard being richard. he was difficult. the day he died, she said he came in late. she said that is richard being richard. she said, i saved the big chair for him. hillary clinton saves the big chair for my big father so he's comfortable. it is a remarkably human touch. do not sit in that chair. that is holbrook's chair. his heart starts to go.

she was a comfort to our family during that time. he got out of the hospital -- he got to the hospital but he quickly. he was taken into surgery pretty quickly. weekend.t through the it was not pretty. my heart breaks because he had so much more to say and so much more to give. one of the reasons i made this film i felt america should be hearing from him still. charlie: did he know he was not going to make it? think he knewt when he went under, but he knew it was bad. he was never conscious after he went under. the notes given to his aid as they are going to the ambulance,

he is saying tell david to come down. most, heys gets me the says, my career in public service is over. that is wrenching to him. he knew that carted -- being carted out of the state department on the stretcher would make the news. charlie: amazing to me that he thought about that. david: that is so much of what he cared about, charlie. every time, it gets me. that is why he did this. it was a holbrooke thing, but also because he believed in public service. he saw john kennedy speak, and that never left him. charlie: what we need in this , he believed in the

employment of diplomacy. he believed in afghanistan, there was a desperate need for diplomacy. a definite need for the united states to use what was in its arsenal, but was not needed well enough. militaryys the dominated everything. secretary clinton says his ideas were right on. one of his closest saying ine said, the bosnia was diplomacy backed by force. who should be, making our foreign policies -- the diplomats or the generals?

charlie: what did you learn about your dad that you did not know? david: the broad strokes, i understood. i read books about him and books he had written. there was understanding the details, how people come together around a table to make peace. here we are 20 years later, you can see how seminal that achievement was. no shots fired in anger. one of my real hopes with this film is that that is re-examined. americans -- charlie: you quote a letter he wrote to your mother. many -- that so

many military men can miss the facts before their eyes. david: there was a top-heavy thinking there. he saw a robert mcnamara come over to vietnam and not only not get answers, but not know what questions to ask. that drove my father crazy. he wrote my mother, how people .annot make decisions he really believed in the power of being on the ground. in vietnam, he is there in 1963, john f. kennedy was still president. bosnia, he goes there as a private citizen. he sees firsthand what ethnic cleansing looks like. he does that again in 2008, toan in 2007, understand that. when he got into the government, he saw those restrictions

firsthand. he wanted to go to refugee camps and food markets and schools and he wanted to talk to people and he felt the altitude was a little high for a lot of the conversations he had as a government official. charlie: tell me about the secret diary. david: remarkable. here he is, we have the letters to my mother, which are beautiful. he is writing for prosperity -- four posterity. in the second act, we have bosnia. in the third act, we had him on the show, different clips, you got a sense of what he was saying. .ow frustrated he was

you can see some of the tensions coming to a head with him and people in the white house. he goes to the theater and talks about how brilliant south pacific is at lincoln center. charlie: there is also this. he wanted to create his own definition of his place. was, of what he said wanted to be the shepherd of his own legacy. david: i think he did. he was planning to write a book. the wiki guide, he had spoken -- the week he died, he had spoken to his literary agent. he wanted to accomplish what he good and then he would say, ok, i will write a book. he was keeping an audio diary.

his sense of history goes back to when he was a kid. i have a quote from my uncle talking about him writing his autobiography when he was 14. most people write their memoirs after they are famous, and i'm going to write mine before i am famous. >> hillary has delivered the all-important memo to the president seeking negotiating routes. finally, the president is focused on it. one of the most important memos we ever wrote, but that remains to be seen. that is all for tonight. david: here he was, this is pretty late, fall of 2010. he is still going for it.

he believes he can help shape this. get us out of this war. he knew it was complicated. his idea, there was a grand bargain involved in all of the regional powers. he had more clarity on it and for him, it was getting that to the president. the day he collapsed, he had a meeting with david axelrod at the white house. that meeting was, i need to talk to the president, give me 15 minutes. i talked to his front -- close friend, he picked up the phone and it did not go well at the white house. i have got to go. that is the last time i spoke with them. charlie: how long was it between that phone call and the collapse? david: half an hour, 45 minutes. was annot -- she

optimist -- he was an optimist and felt like he could still pull this out. even though the writing was on the wall that he would never gain the trust of this president. they were different stylistically. my father never denigrated president obama during the campaign. he just never found his footing. it is unfortunate because he had a lot to give and he was such a patriot. i have heard multiple times, if anybody brought any criticism of the president, he would stop that conversation. struggles. real it was more personality than policy. that is unfortunate.

charlie: this is state number five, one of richard holbrook's 50 appearances on the show. richard: i was thinking about this this morning. in architecture, you make up your blueprint, you design the whole building perfectly down to the last specimen and then you build it. foreign policy, you have a general concept. you start out, you encounter an obstacle, you adjust to realities and you have to bring congress along. you have to bring the allies along. you have to deal with the russians. foreign policy is not architecture and it is not prewritten. i do not know the end of the movie. what is happening in kosovo is of tremendous importance, not

only to the people of kosovo, but to the future of the atlantic alliance. david: what a great clip. my goodness. charlie: i will tell you two stories. one was told to me by a member of parliament. he told me that there was a dinner for secretary clinton. it had to do with afghanistan policy. stewart traveled through afghanistan. he had written a number of books. richard put him next to secretary clinton because he wanted him to make the argument that richard was interested in hearing. he basically said, you better convince her or you will never sit next to her again. david: that sounds like my

father. i love hearing him talking about kosovo. i showed the film there this summer. when i was leaving the country, i handed the border patrol my passport. he said, holbrook, and shakes my hand. he is number one here. that happened all over the place there. to see that impact, it is tremendous. in kosovo, there are statues. it is really quite a thing and i am glad that legacy and doers today --endures today. charlie: he would talk about everything from women to books to leaders. there was a time he wanted me to interview the prime minister of

afghanistan -- the president of afghanistan and the premised are pakistan -- prime minister of pakistan at the same time and he set it up. together, and we had an interesting conversation. him. that, i thanked not knowing whether he had done it or secretary clinton had done said to secretary clinton, thanks for putting together an enabling me for interviewing these two people for the first time. and she said, don't think me. it was richard. richard insisted that we get them to do it. david: that was his vision. he understood people. you have to get people to sit down.

the idea of diplomacy shifting and i have thought about president obama's efforts and secretary kerry's efforts on iran. he would have respected they went for this. he did not say it was a great deal. that imperfection is a hallmark of diplomacy. hislie: no one doubted skills. some worried about a bull in a china shop. thing, and ing have huge respect for george mitchell, i would have liked to have seen the president make richard holbrook his middle east envoy and say look, for all the reasons you want to see this succeed, because it is in the interest of the peace of the world, i am telling you now, i will give you my authority to make peace in the middle east,

primarily beginning with israelis and palestinians. that was my great hope. not knowing whether richard would accept it or not. it was a challenge up to his skills. david: afghanistan was an enormous challenge. the keyword is authority. that is what he never got from this president, sadly. president obama never trusted him to say, you are my point man. and then they took away the ball. years into, seven obama's war, and i would love to understand the afghanistan policy. my father would have been able to articulate it in a way that nobody could have. i am really sorry he is not

here. thank you for doing this. charlie: thank you. thank you for joining us. see you next time. ♪

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angie: will they, won't they? japan's production figures are due later this evening. the economy is in recession. was it all a dream? burst,after the bubble china's stocks are again trouncing the world. welcome to "first