♪ announcer: from our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose. charlie: urban meyer is the head football coach at ohio state university. the buckeyes are the defending national champions. he is one of two coaches to win a national championship at two different schools. he had previously won two titles at the university of florida. ohio state defeated oregon in the first-ever college football playoff last season. 42-20. that run was made possible in the arm of a third string quarterback. he writes about last year's team and much more in "above the line." leadership and life

from a championship season." i am pleased to have him at this table for the first time. welcome. let's talke about "above the line." it come from? urban: i have this leadership consultant and we became very close. we have very similar philosophies on life and it came about -- every day, there is a line in life and you either live above it or below it. below the line is impulsive and autopilot. especially the clientele we are dealing with, you have to live your life above the line and it is not easy. charlie: is there a place in this for spontaneity, instinct, for acting in the moment? urban: absolutely, but it has to

be taught instinct. self-discipline, self-respect, incredible work ethic. their spontaneity is right on target. for the average joe, it is not good most of the time. impulsive behaviour. for the highly trained people, hopefully, spontaneity has put them in the right position. charlie: in an interesting way, some of the best jazz musicians have been well schooled in every aspect of music. and jazz is something they can go to because they have a grounding in good music. urban: i would like to think that an elite football player is no different than a highly trained jazz musician. highly trained, taught to perform above the line. that is a lot of what college football is, reactionary moments on the field.

and as long as they are well trained, i am into it. charlie: do teach a lot of fundamentals? your predecessor used to say, 30 yards and a cloud of dust. is what weamentals teach. i love the way you put that. some of the elite performers are spontaneous, you cannot coach what some of these incredible athletes do. charlie: you cannot teach them about everything in the field. urban: we fill your toolbox with fundamentals and let you play with reckless abandon. charlie: this is a story they tell from texas. about then hogan. there was a shot that was hit from behind the tree, and someone said why are you , spending so much time on that? you have never had to hit that shot. and he said, someday i will and i want to be ready. urban: that is great. charlie: tell me about the championship season. there were some people who thought oregon was going to be at you in the final.

urban: we were the six point underdog against alabama. in the final game, we were a touchdown underdog. our players thrived on it. it was illogical to do it we did. we endured a tragedy, a young player on our team committed suicide the week before our championship game. there were so many reasons why we should not do what we were doing. the intestinal -- the inner workings of this team, i am not quite sure i have ever been around anything like that before. charlie: it was because they came together? urban: this might sound high school-ish or whatever, but they loved each other, they cared about each other. we worked so hard and to see it come to fruition -- charlie: that is what they teach in the military, too. urban: that is exactly what they teach in the military, and we use as often as possible examples from the united states military. because of the respect of them, and plus is there another greater form of motivation to

have people do what they do not want to do for love of country? no, there is nothing quite like it. charlie: and you can teach this. urban: there is no doubt you can teach it. i cannot teach it by myself. i have a group of leaders. their job is to get their unit to perform at the maximum capacity. and they did it last year for us. we are getting close again. charlie: close to what? urban: close to capacity. we are not there yet. nine units are operating at full capacity. charlie: what is your record so far? urban: we are getting close. charlie: you are getting close ability.m urban: maximum capacity. there is still something left. our players know it. we are not hitting on all cylinders, but we do not have to yet. charley: getting to the limit of

your game, if you play with in your game, is what i am trying to say. urban: like the level of competition, you are right. we need to perform. charlie: you always need to have something extra to push through at times, that you will have to have. urban: absolutely. that is the term we use, maximum capacity. there is always something left in the tank. if you are pulling everything out of the tank, like we did last year, that is where magic happens. charlie: what do you look for in terms of well-rounded, in terms of being fully developed human beings at that age? urban: the number one thing i look for is a competitive spirit. if you are a competitor, a person of a competitive spirit and a person of character, you can teach that person to move mountains. the greatest competitor i have ever coached is tim tebow. if you ever played checkers or basketball or free throws or ping-pong, you are not getting out of that game until he wins.

competitive he is, and that is in everything he does, and his level of competitiveness, being a competitor, it just rubs off on people. charlie: he has a strong religious component to his life. does he not? urban: tim tebow is incredible. i have witnessed it. he goes to work every day with a purpose. with respect to tim, and i do not personally know him, but i would ask the question, why hasn't he delivered in the pros? urban: that is one of the greatest phenomenons. i am not a pro coach, so i do not quite understand. it is a different game. charlie: why hasn't he delivered? urban: maybe it is a skill set of throwing the football. they do not run their quarterbacks like we do in college. it has nothing to do with competitive spirit. he tried hard. charlie: he has tried as hard as he possibly could? is it a lack of skill?

urban: that is what i am hearing. charlie: you are hearing it? you coached him for two w seasons, yes? urban: i still think he can. charlie: if you were a pro coach today, you would want him as your quarterback? just like that? urban: in a second. charlie: but he cannot throw the ball. he is not tom brady and he is not peyton manning. urban: here is a great number for you. charlie: ok. urban: he is the second most efficient passer of all time. charlie: help me understand why he cannot pass in the pros. urban: i do believe the pro game is much different from college. i cannot speak to that. i am not an expert. charlie: yes, you can. if it is teachable, he would have learned. is that right? if that was something that he could learn to do? urban: he has worked for chip kelly and belichick. charlie: your conclusion is? urban: goodness.

charlie: come on. urban: you asked me a question that if i went to the pros, i would go get tim in a new york minute. charlie: because he is a winner. urban he is a winner and he : brings people with him. charlie: but he has had a chance in the pros. several times. if tim called you and said, coach, you and i had some great times together. you were there for me and i was there for you and we won. what do i do? what would you say? urban: we have had that conversation. he has had opportunities to move on. we have had many of those heart-to-heart conversations. i tell him to keep swinging as hard as you possibly can. now that this final chapter -- i think maybe his pro opportunities are going to diminish. it may never happen again, unfortunately, but i tell him he has to look for out for himself

and if it is more specific when he calls me -- i don't want to see him go into a situation where he has no chance for success. charlie: tell me about florida state and you. urban: florida. charlie: i am sorry. bobby was at florida state when you were there. five years. urban: i did a stint with bobby. i love him. great person. we had a great run, six years. we won two championships. obviously, had a tremendous experience. i love florida. there is a special place in my heart always for florida gators. charlie: well, we all know your story there, and i asked you this morning, what happened before you took a year off. a year off, and taking the year off, you decided to investigate

leadership and you decided to talk to leaders and coaches you admired and find out what common denominator was there. so that you could learn, and a the same time, you could pass it on in other places, but what led you to that? what happened? that is what i want to know, in your words, not somebody else's. urban: well, we were having tremendous success, a 22-game win streak. and a great friend of mine, randy walker, passed away of a heart attack and i started having these chest pains. significant chest pains, and every year, i would get checked out by the cardio people and , they would always come back and say your heart is fine. i did not feel right. charlie: you did the stress test. all of that good stuff. urban: inside-out and upside-down. especially the third year. night, i had a bad night. i went down. charlie: your wife found you on the floor. urban: it was a bad situation. charlie: bad situation because?

you almost died? a bad situation because? urban: i do not want to go there. i did not feel right and i thought i was putting my family in harms way. i started evaluating why. why am i doing this? that is when the questions started coming back. get away from this. this is going to kill you. get away from it. charlie: you are neglecting your health? urban: i have always been a good workout guy. always. in the last year and a half, i did not do that. charlie: you stopped working out. you thought it was necessary to spend all of that time to win. urban: i had four hours of sleep, and i had to take an ambien and drink a beer on top of that to get to sleep because i was so obsessed. in the pursuit of perfection. charlie: you had to take an ambien and have beer. that is an indicator.

he put you on the floor to tell you. ♪ urban: yes. ♪

♪ charlie: to be number one in college football? urban: no, it was much more than that. charlie: what?

urban: to be perfect. perfect in florida, they never had an undefeated season. but we lost that game in alabama and the perfection was shattered. and everything you worked so hard for was gone. charlie: so you thought you were a failure? because you were not perfect? urban: i think we failed. we failed. charlie: 22-0 and you failed. urban: it was madness. it was out of control. charlie: they have stories about this. about coaches who sleep at the and coaches who fall asleep watching film and all of that stuff. urban: i did a little homework on you. and some people would -- charlie: what would they say? urban: you are perfectionist and you work until you cannot work anymore. i really believe, and so does everybody with common sense that there has to be some kind of balance. : this is about you and

not about me, but i fervently believe i have worked too hard. i fervently believe in having a well-rounded life and doing a whole lot of other things. i really do, so playing sports is important to me. in the sense of enjoying books and movies and things like that. i am not -- i am 24/7 but -- urban: imagine if that was gone from you for a period of time. it was gone for me for a period of time. there was nothing other than the relentless pursuit of perfection. charlie: i believe in the relentless pursuit of perfection, i really do. i believe in doing and being as good as you possibly can. youto know that you do what do as good as anyone in the world is a rather comforting feeling, but at the same time, it cannot be the thing that drives your life.

i agree. urban: that is what took place. charlie how did you recover? : urban: i stepped away. i thought i was done for good when i stepped away. about two months into it, i am on a walk with my wife and i -- we are extremely close. i said, i cannot do this. i miss it so bad. she looked at me and said, you are nuts. please give it time. i am very close to my children. and now they are old enough to understand, and we talk, 24, 25 years old, and i was all set to just go on tv. i was set to stay away. i had plenty of opportunities. people would call. and then my home school called. i am from the state of ohio, and they went through a complete program. they lost to seven games, and all sorts of things. charlie: we need you and only you can do this for us and we are family? we have roots here. urban: and it is your home. home,e: and it is your

and you need to give back to your home. urban: that is kind of how it took place. charlie: [laughs] of course, it is. and so you decided to come back. did you change the way you behave? did you? urban: absolutely i did. it is staying above the line is every day and i have a lot of life, and iow in my go below the line. charlie: you just said to me is the goal this year is to be perfect. you are 8-0. but you are not perfect. urban: i never said the goal was to be perfect. maximum capacity. everybody giving all that they can. charlie: the difference is the point you want to make. urban: i think it is a whole different atmosphere. maximum capacity is being as good as you can possibly be.

: ok, let me assume that it is beyond obsession with perfection, and it is above the line. you know a whole lot about football. as belichick does. obviously. i mean i saw the jets yesterday , and that was unbelievable. i thought the jets were going to play well. they played well in the first , and all of a sudden, in the fourth quarter, they could not stop brady for a second. urban: see, i would say that bill belichick, and i know him well, and chip kelly, they do know football, but they know the human spirit. i do not like talking about that i'mnd to say smarter that another football coach, i would disagree. i would say that i do know the human spirit and i trust and believe in the human spirit. getting the most out of people. charlie: that is what mike said getting the maximum amount out , of his players.

he says he can literally coach on the court. urban: we lead. our unit leaders are the assistant coaches and we pick a unit leader of every group and we expect them to lead. from within. charlie: motivating people, and it is recruiting, as you said and discipline. , above the line. but it is also -- you know something. you know something about the game. urban: well, i think i know a lot about the game. i have incredible leaders and have had mentors who have guided me. i love the strategic part of it. spent a lot of time with it. i have been around some incredible people with knowledge of the game of football who cannot get out of their own way. they cannot transfer that knowledge and get the player to go it maximum capacity. charlie: one of the reasons why

some great baseball, basketball players cannot become great coaches. they have extraordinary talents, but they cannot to negate what they have to other young men and women. -- but they cannot communicate what they have to other young men and women. urban: the greatest coaches are the ones who struggled athletically. they had to work so hard for everything they had. charlie: they knew what they wanted, but could not get there. so what do you want to do with your life now? urban: i want to continue to build teams, and i want to see young people do things they never thought they could do. charlie: what did you learn when you went and talked into all of these people, not just about leadership but about life? urban: when i was younger, you get so in a cocoon because you are so paranoid people will steal what you know.

so for two reasons. find out about work-life balance. bob is a great person. taking to the kids to school. in our profession, you were soft, if you spent time with your family. i did not want to be that way, so i went on a mission. can you have balance in your life? i want to find out what makes these great programs. two chips and bob and bill belichick, they can not the more different, but the one thing that is the common denominator in all of these great programs, chip kelly's greatest gift is not the spread offense. it is the ability to make all believed in his organization this is the only way to do it. bill belichick's greatest gift is not that he is a defensive genius. it is the fact he has everyone within the organization -- everyone, from the personal cleans the place, from tom brady to everyone down, everyone believes that bill belichick's

system is the way to do it. i call that alignment. top to bottom. that is a full-time job. to get everybody to believe in that consistently. it is so fluid. people are leaving your program and coming. charlie: belichick is a defensive genius. you are a what genius? urban: i do not like to use the word genius. motivating. established that, but are you offense of? -- offensive? you created this spread offense. explain that to me. urban: it is all about equating numbers. it is all about not running a bad play. for example if they have extra , people in the box, you don't. spread formations. force the defense to fend horizontally and vertically. and an athletic quarterback helps you with that. charlie: you like one who can move around. urban: you need an athletic quarterback. charlie: isn't that the quarterback of today?

i mean, the new quarterbacks are not brady or peyton manning. urban: it tells you how hard it is. when you say brady and manning, that is why there are only a couple of them. it is a much different thing now. i have had people stand in a pocket against a great team, knowing where everybody is -- at. charlie: explain that to me. what does a quarterback have to do? urban the quarterback has to be : an exceptional leader. he takes the snap and within two seconds, a 6'6" man trying to rip your head off, you need to identify the defense. make sure the protection is correct, the offensive line is protected, and it is so complicated, that part of the game. and have a movement key and deliver the ball on time, all within two seconds. identify the movement and deliver the ball. one of the hardest skills in football. that is why there are so few

pocket passers that are great. it is such a hard skill. it -- i mean, i could have told the jets defense that brady was going to throw it . right? urban: i did not see it. charlie they do it all the time. : they know it is coming. urban: he is that exceptional. twice i watched the patriots. and he was running the offenses. i walked in there, and i could not believe what i saw. the receiver is there. josh was sitting with them. charlie: he was not a top draft choice. urban: sixth or seventh round. phenomenal. charlie: that says there is an x-factor. urban: yes. charlie: in winning. urban: and with what coach belichick has done with him. he took a six rounder and made him a hall of fame quarterback.

in a system that obviously works. charlie: we talked about whether we needed to do something about making it safer. urban: right. charlie from the nfl to college : to high school. urban: i was not aware this morning of what happened. i looked horrible. it up when i left. horrible. it took my breath away. i have a son that is 16 years old and playing high school football, and it is horrible. and i do believe in the bottom of my heart that football is as safe as it has ever been and i know that sounds irrational to the families that it happened to. i think we're going to continue -- i think the rules are in place to make it a safer game. the equipment is safer. when you asked me that this morning, i was not in touch. i thought i heard something, but i did not research until i walked out of your room.

i said, what happened? and i looked it up, and it hit home pre-like i said, i have a 16-year-old. charlie: have you seen every game he plays. urban: the majority of them, that is above the line behavior. charlie: what is the last movie you went to see? urban: every christmas, we do a family movie. my wife makes sure of that. the book is called "above the line," urban meyer, everybody has to find their own balance. they really do. don't they? urban: i think you need guidance though. charlie this is a starting : point. urban: that is my journey. charley: why is it so typical to get you to tell it? urban i do not like talking : about myself. charlie: hello. urban: i am not comfortable talking about those things. charlie: thank you for coming. urban: an honor to meet you. charlie: i have to come to ohio state to see a football game.

urban:, as my guest. charlie back in a moment, stay : with us. ♪

♪ charlie: richard holbrooke died on december 13, 2010. he was an american diplomat, u.n. and bassett are assistant , secretary of state, peace corps officer, and author. he was a friend of this show. he appeared close to 50 times.

the sun went in search of the father he never knew. the documentary made about him, "the diplomat," airs on hbo monday, november 2. that marks his crowning achievement, the dayton peace accords. here is the trailer for the film. ♪ plays]clip >> my father's career as a diplomat spanned 50 years of american foreign-policy. >> those who travel into dangerous areas take great risks. life is always risks. >> he was brilliant, demanding. achievement. >> he knew where he was going and no one should get in his way. >> what is the bottom line? he said, it cannot work. >> i went around the world working to understand my father's legacy, and i realized

my father was an historical figure. [end video clip] charlie: i am pleased to welcome david holbrook to the stage. david: a little weird not to have my father here. charlie: he was here about 50 times. david: i wish you were here. charlie: you went in search of your father. david: i sat at the kennedy center memorial. this incredible array of washingtonians, hillary clinton and barack obama and president clinton. and all of these other people. i really did see him as an historical figure for the first time. he was my father, and he was absent, obviously, but when he was around, we had a lot of fun. he loved to go to movies and enjoy himself. i sat there and to see the president of the united states sit there for 2.5 hours a listen to people talk about them, it changed my perspective. the day before his final team

in afghanistan and pakistan gathered, and they told stories about a guy i did not know. they were talking about the familiarity of traveling with him and these crazy yellow pajamas that he wore. all of these stories, and it made me think, who is this guy? it was certainly a journey film. it took me to nine different countries and we interviewed 75 people who knew him in very is ways, and it was a remarkable experience. came away fromu that with that he was a historical figure. david: yes, and i think his impact and what happened in bosnia 20 years ago, and what he did in vietnam, china, all of these different things were seminal and his impact -- i really saw it through the eyes of these luminaries. to see these presidents lauding him and caring about him. charlie: i knew him very well. one of the interesting things about him, and i saw him the week before. he came to the new york where

he was at the proper library where there was an event that we were both attending, a book party for somebody, and then we walked across to the four seasons and we were talking about an appearance on my show and whether the white house would let him appear. and stuff like that, and i would always would say it is not them, it is you, and he would always say, no, no, but the point is, it was an interesting moment and then he was gone. david: he was gone, just like that. it was striking because he never became secretary of state, which is the job he always wanted. he was ambassador to the u.n. and had a lot of posts, but his impact was greater than a lot of secretaries of state. warren christopher, who he worked for in the clinton administration died a couple of , months after my father. my father, because he was still in the game, it was news. and i think one of the things -- richard film

holbrooke does not die. he is the most alive man most of us have ever met. and i think that vitality was so shocking to people, but you saw him. he did not look well. i am glad you did, you are a good friend that way, and i wish more people had, and i wish he would have listened, but he was under such tremendous pressure. he did not eat well. his office was on the first floor of the state department down the hall from the cafeteria. that did not serve him well. the big thing was the stress and that was paramount. do you know anybody who was under more pressure in than my december 2010 father when you saw him? : with the pressure question what david i think the : pressure on him was coming from the impossible task he had. he said to me, i know how to be secretary of state. i know how to be hillary's deputy, but they have given me the hardest job in the

administration. and i asked that very question by secretary clinton, and she said, by many metrics, he did. metrics, he did have the hardest job, and it was hard enough dealing with the intransigence of pakistan and afghanistan, but he had enormous pressure coming from the white house. and his relationship with them, which we explore. charlie: he was protected by the secretary of state. david: yes, and she saved his job more than twice. and i think the constant drumbeat of disaffection and the frustration that he had over the white house and the white house had with him was creating an untenable situation. : the most important thing i can say about him in terms of friendship, his remarkable record, and he wanted to be where the action was.

so, therefore i suspect he loved , the job that he had, in part. even though it was difficult. even though foreign-policy was run from the white house, and he was not exactly in sync with the white house. the most important thing about him, one, the achievement with dayton, but he was one of those people that you would have liked as a journalist to see what they would have done as the nation's most important foreign-policy official. it would have been interesting. you know it would have been interesting. it would have been different, and yet he had this personality --hat would sometimes clash often clashed with a range of people. and to see that man as secretary of state would have been a fascinating process. david: not to mention his vision. one of his friends told me that he had this unusual ability to be able to see far away, but understand how to get there. charlie: that is what they also said about de gaulle.

david: some people can do one or to the other. charlie: let me show you a film. this is hillary clinton speaking about afghanistan. here it is. plays]clip clinton: there was a big gap in our military commitment and our diplomatic commitment in afghanistan. if we did not make a full press on the diplomatic front, we would not know whether or not there could be some kind of negotiated ending. >> the military dominated everything. everything that we did, and so for your dad to show up, this , high energy brilliant, funny, engaging diplomat who knew the region and was ready to push everyone else out of the way, it was really great to see. it was like, wow, man, we have got like the a-team here again. [end video clip] charlie: the relationship with

secretary clinton? david: it was deep and i really think they had known each other through the clinton years. they had stayed in touch during the bush years. and i think she trusted him. she saved his job more than twice. she believed in his ability to execute and all the things he brought to the table and was willing to say it was richard being richard. you know he was difficult. ,he was not an easy person. and the day he died, she said he came in late. meeting with the pakistanis. i have been meeting with the white house," she said that is richard being richard. and then she said something beautiful. she said i saved the big chair , "for him." hillary clinton saves the big chair for my big father so he's comfortable when he comes in. it is a remarkably human touch. she would say do not sit in that , chair. that is holbrook's chair. his heart starts to go.

she really was a real leader and a real comfort to our family during that time. : the moment that he died. david he got to the hospital but : he quickly. he was taken into surgery pretty rapidly. a pakistani surgeon worked on him for 22 hours to save him. he made it through the weekend. holding on, but it was not pretty. it my heart breaks for because i think he had so much more to say and so much more to give, and one of the reasons i made this film is i felt america should be hearing from him still. and i think his vision well -- charlie: did he know he was not going to make it? david: i do not think he knew when he went under, but he knew it was bad. he knew what was really bad. charlie: there was a moment that he went under -- david: he was never conscious after he went under.

the notes given to his aide as they are going to the ambulance, he is saying tell david to come down. all of this stuff, but what always gets me the most, he says, my career in public service is over. and that in his last moment that is wrenching to him. , he knew that being carted out of the state department on the stretcher would make the news. he knew that would be the exit ramp for him. charlie: amazing to me that he thought about that. david: that is so much of what he cared about, charlie. every time, it gets me. because -- because that is why he did this. he had an ego. it was a holbrooke thing, but also because he believed in public service. he saw john kennedy speak, and that never left him. what we yes, and believe and also, and hillary clinton and colin powell, he believed in the employment of

diplomacy. he believed in afghanistan, there was a desperate need for diplomacy. there was a definite need for the united states to use what was in its arsenal, but was not being used well enough, which was diplomacy. yes, and they continue to talk about that. dexter says the military dominated everything. secretary clinton says his ideas on the civilian search were right on. the annam, bosnia, and afghanistan, in afghanistan, in charge, in terms of making foreign-policy, and one of his closest friends, he said, the saying in bosnia was "diplomacy backed by force." charlie: right. david: and i think that is the key to the film, and in afghanistan, who should be making our foreign policies -- the diplomats or the generals? charlie: what did you learn about your dad that you did not know?

david: you know, i learned a lot about him. it is really -- the broad strokes, i understood. i read articles. i read books about him and books he had written about what he had achieved. there was understanding the details. it is fascinating how people come together around a table to make peace. here we are 20 years later, you can see how seminal that achievement was. 20 years later no shots fired in , anger. our troops have been safe there, and we have maintained a piece, a tenuous peace, and one of my real hopes with this film is that that is re-examined. here we are 20 years later, the clinton administration, and i hope that -- americans will not take a lot of leadership, but making sure that keeps the peace as a was intended to. charlie: you quote a letter he wrote to your mother. where he says i'm amazed that so

many military men who have been here for so many months can miss the facts before their eyes. david: he at a tremendous respect for the military, but he also felt there was a top-heavy thinking there. he saw a robert mcnamara come over to vietnam and not only not get good answers but not even know what questions to ask. it was a flyover, even though he landed, and that drove my father crazy. he also wrote my mother, how people cannot make decisions. from 12,000 miles away. he really believed in the power of being on the ground. each one ofit in his postings. in vietnam, he is there. in 1963, john f. kennedy was still president. bosnia, he goes there as a private citizen. he sees firsthand what ethnic cleansing looks like. before he is in the government, and then he does that again in , afghanistan in 2007, 2008, to really understand that. when he got into the government, he saw those restrictions firsthand.

he was not allowed out of the green zone. that -- he did not feel could tell him things. he wanted to go to refugee camps and he wanted to go to food markets and schools and he wanted to talk to people and he felt the altitude was a little high for a lot of the conversations he had as a government official as opposed to a private citizen. charlie: tell me about the secret diary. david: remarkable. it is a remarkable thing, because here he is, we have the letters to my mother, which are beautiful. he is writing for posterity. and he is writing her saying, keep these. instead of a journal. in the second act, we have bosnia. what he talked about on this show so eloquently, and then in the third act, we had him on the different clips of him in various places. you got a sense of what he was saying. how frustrated he was.

that he was not able to advance what he thought were good and important ideas, and you can see some of the tensions coming to a head with him and people in the white house. but there is other stuff in there, where he goes to the theater and talks about how brilliant south pacific is at lincoln center. they are kind of like, this is what i had to eat. they are remarkable. charlie: there is also this. he wanted to create his own definition of his place. and that a lot of what he said -- wanted to be the shepherd of his own legacy. yes? david: i think he did. he was planning to write a book. the week he died, he had spoken to his literary agent. and to his speakers agent, and my sense was he was looking to get out in he wanted to july 2011. a cop he could and then he would , say, ok, i will write a book. he was keeping an audio diary.

that he should be viewing this for posterity. bethumously, it was going to two volumes, but his sense of history goes back to when he was a kid. i have a quote from my uncle talking about him writing his autobiography when he was 14. most people write their memoirs after they are famous, and i'm going to write mine before i am famous. my point.hat is take a look at this. this is the audio with hillary clinton on afghanistan. plays] >> hillary has delivered the all-important memo to the president seeking negotiating routes. >> finally, the president is focused on it. one of the most important memos we ever wrote, but that remains to be seen. that is all for tonight. [clip ends] david: here he was, this is pretty late, fall of 2010.

when he is recording that, and he is still going for it. he believes he can help shape this. and get us out of this war. he knew it was a normatively complicated. his idea, as i understand it there was a grand bargain , involving all of the regional powers. he had more clarity on it and for him, it was getting that to the president. the day he collapsed, he had a meeting with david axelrod at the white house. and as i understand, that meeting was to say, hey i need , to talk to the president, give i 15 minutes with him, and found out afterwards. i talked to his close friend, he did not go well at the white house. i have to go. that is the last time i spoke with him. charlie: how long was it between that phone call and the collapse? david: half an hour, 45 minutes. charlie: oh, really. that close?

he jumped on the phone and told us. he was an optimist and felt like he could still pull this out. even though i think the writing was on the wall that he would never gain the trust of this president. unfortunately. charlie: why was that? david: i think they were different stylistically. my father never denigrated president obama during the campaign but had been a supporter. secretary clinton, and so, he was -- i think he just never found his footing there, and it is unfortunate because he had a lot to give and he was such a patriot. i have heard multiple times, if anybody brought any criticism of he would stop that conversation. the president he would stop that conversation. in the staffing or anywhere else, for respect for the president and the chain of command was sacrosanct, but he did have real struggles. and as i look at it it was more , personality than policy.

that is unfortunate. charlie: this is tape number one five, of richard holbrooke's 50 appearances on the show. here it is. [clip plays] richard: i was thinking about this this morning. in architecture, you make up your blueprint, you design the whole building perfectly down to the last specimen and then you build it. foreign policy is not like architecture. you have a general concept. you start out -- this is like 50 years ago. you start out, you encounter an obstacle, you adjust to realities and you have to bring congress along. congress says no. you have to break -- back up. you have to bring the allies along. you have to deal with the russians. foreign policy is not architecture and it is not prewritten. i do not know the end of the movie now. all i know is what is happening in kosovo is of tremendous importance, not only to the

people of kosovo, although they are the primary ones concerned but to the future of the atlantic alliance and europe. david: what a great clip. my goodness. charlie: i will tell you two stories. about your dad, which you already know. one was told to me by a member of parliament. stewart. he told me that there was a dinner for secretary clinton. hillary clinton. i have forgotten exactly where it took place, but it had to do with afghanistan policy. and stewart traveled through afghanistan on foot, and he had written a number of books. and richard put him next to secretary clinton because he wanted him to make the argument that richard was interested in her hearing, and stewart i think told me this. i think this is reasonably close to what he told me. he basically said, you better convince her or you will never sit next to her again.

does that sound like your father? david: that sounds like my father. very much. i love hearing him talking about kosovo. i showed the film there this summer. it was amazing because there was the press, local. when i was leaving the country, i handed the border patrol my passport. he said, holbrooke, and shakes my hand. he is number one here. and that happened all over the place there. said that his name was synonymous with hope, with freedom, and to see that impact, and with that clip you showed it , is tremendous. in kosovo, there are statues. it is really quite a thing and i am glad that legacy endures today. charlie: my final story about richard holbrook is that he would talk about everything from movies to books to women to politics and two foreign policy and two leaders, as well. there was a time he wanted me to

interview the prime minister of afghanistan -- the president of afghanistan and the prime minister of pakistan at the same time. they had never done that before, and and he set it up. they came together, and we had an interesting conversation. between these two people. after that, i thanked him. not knowing whether he had done andnot knowing whether he had done it or secretary clinton had it, i later saw secretary clinton or when i was interviewing her for some the, and i said thanks, meeting general thanks for putting together and enabling me to interview these two people for the first time. an exclusive interview, with putting these two people at the table at the same time and she , said, don't thank me. it was richard. richard insisted that we get them to do it. david: sitting them down here or sitting them down somewhere else. that was his vision. he understood people.

at the end of the day you have , to get people to sit down. that clip you showed the idea of , diplomacy shifting and i have thought about president obama's efforts and secretary kerry's efforts on iran. he would have respected they went for this. this is a good deal. he did not say it was a great deal. that imperfection is a hallmark of diplomacy. charlie: no one doubted his skills. some worried about a bull in a china shop. as a kind of metaphor, but the interesting thing, and i thought it would have been amazing and i , have huge respect for george mitchell, who i think was a great, great american, and he worked hard -- i would have liked to have seen the president make richard holbrook his middle east envoy and say look, for all the reasons you want to see this succeed, because it is in the interest of the peace of the world, because it is in the interest for whatever your own ambition is i am telling you , now, i will give you my authority to make peace in the

middle east, primarily beginning with israelis and palestinians. that was my great hope. of what obama might do not , knowing whether richard would accept it or not. david: sure. charlie: it was a challenge up to his skills. david: afghanistan was an enormous challenge. i think the key word you used to their is authority. that is what he never got from this president, sadly. i think president obama never trusted him to say, you are my point man. and then they took away the ball. and i think that was unfortunate for my father, unfortunate for the country, and unfortunate for the administration, because here we are, seven years into obama's war, and i would love to understand the afghanistan policy. i think we just do not have it. my father would have been able to articulate it in a way that nobody could have. charlie: thank you for coming. david i am really sorry he is

: not here. i wish he were here instead of me, but thank you for doing this. charlie: thank you. thank you for joining us. see you next time. ♪ . . .

rishaad: it is thursday, the 29th of october, by rishaad salamat and you are watching "trending business." rishaad: here is a look at what we are watching. a game changer. nintendo shares plunging in tokyo after releasing the smartphone game. it was supposed to come out this year. it will now be out mid-march at the earliest. surprising strengths. japan easing fears of recession. it raises the bar for stimulus when policymakers meet tomorrow.

mark zuckerberg talking internet access in india. the only thing facebook users want is an invitation. he said that is what people care about, we will do it. let us know what you think of today's top stories. follow me at twitter. the jakarta session just about getting started. where having a look at what else is going on in the asia-pacific, having a look at how the markets are really doing. mode are in wait and see in the beginning of the week as we waited the federal reserve. now we await the bank o japan. the bank of new zealand releasing its decision as well. you are seeing a mixed picture. gains in north asia. the nikkei trading lower in hong kong and shanghai. the in markets in wellington and australia. you're seeing again in the wellington market. sydni down.