>> from our studios in new york city, this is "charlie rose." welcome to the program. earlier tonight, the republican presidential candidates squared colorado, for their third debate. we tape this, the debate is just beginning. we will have full analysis and tomorrow.ve >> you have to be patient and stick with it and all of that. also, i can't fake anger. i believe this is still the most extraordinary country on the face of the earth and it troubles me people are rewarded tearing down our country. it's never been that way in american politics before. by saying that i'm not sure it's a weakness,

sensedo believe i share a of optimism for america's future that today is eroding for too many of our people. sense in this a country today that somehow our best days are behind us and that doesn't have to be true. best days lie ahead if we're willing to do what it takes now. greatest maybe my weakness is i trust people too much, i'm too trusting. hen they let me down, if they let me down, i never forgive. hard to very, very forgive people that deceived me. > probably in terms of the applying for a job of president, the weakness would be not really myself in that position until hundreds of thousands of people begin to tell me that i it.ed to do i do, however, believe in eagan's 11th commandment and will not be engaging in awful about my compatriates here and recognizing it is so important, this election, we're talking about america for the people versus

america for the government. is here.to koppel e was the managing editor of "nightline" for 25 years. this is embarrassing to read. peabody awards in many of the honors of a long, distinguished career. "lights out, s cyber attack. a nation unprepared, surviving aftermath." it considers the possibility of an cyber attack on the u.s. power grid. passed its most significant cyber security bill yesterday. cited harry reid koppel's books in his remarks last week about the need for this legislation. three years ago this month the then secretary of defense panetta warned the united states of a potential cyber harbor. cyber pearl harbor, direct quote. cyber pearl harbor would be

would be a cyber attack on our nation's banks, power grid, government and communications network. and it sounds scary. scary. because it is cyber terrorists could potentially bring the united states to its knees. us.poensality is upon a cyber attack is not far fetched. ted koppel, the renowned journalist, has written another book. and the author reveals that our grid is extremely vulnerable to cyber terrorism. imagine the toll of these attacks. massive power blackouts, no telephone, no internet that's on your cell phones or whatever phones exist. first responders. an pin fra structure system to chaos. charlie: i'm pleased to have ted

koppel back at this table. he's a great and dear friend and i'm pleased a, he's written a to that calls attention what is urgently required to do to avoid a cyber attack. what t with the notion of caused you to come to this book? essentially, what harry reid was talking about there. smart, important, high-ranking people from the president on down. i mean, the president has twice warned about the danger of a grid attack on the power in his state of the union address. nothing in the press the next morning. harry reid e that defense secretary leon panetta. here's the secretary of defense talking about the danger of a harbor.arl the next day -- charlie: meaning a surprise attack on america will not come past.has in the it will be over the internet. >> over the internet and it will

infinitely more damaging potentially than pearl harbor was. response, nothing. i mean, i think there was a "the wall street journal." there was a small item in "the new york times." toi just sat down and i said myself, i wonder what plans, if the have been made for civilian population? so i picked up the phone and i called the red cross. picked up the phone and i called the department of homeland security. and i picked up the phone and i called fema. and i got stuck in one phone after another. i mean, my first reaction was, nothing is going on right now. no crisis. if i can't get through to any in a time e agencies of absolute calm -- panic.: >> -- in a time of no panic -- panic.e: during a time of >> exactly. eventually you get through the phone tree and find a human

being. human being refers you to a website. website,o look at that and you can do it, any one of your viewers can do it tomorrow. website for fema. look at the website for department of homeland security, cross. and they cite every possible befall the t could human race. i mean, an earthquake, a tornado, a hurricane, a blizzard. of the ng but death first born. is there one word about the attack?ity of a cyber there is not. nothing. and every one of these make talks about having preparations for two, two, three of food, days of water, two, three days medicine. problem is i cyber attack could knock out the power grid for of hs, affecting tens millions of people. we need a plan.

not a partisan issue. i mean, harry reid ought to be able to reach across the aisle talk to the folks. he and mitch mcconnell ought to be able to sit down and say, we have to do something. charlie: if there's anything that ought to go beyond it.tisanship, this would be a threat to the nation. >> absolutely, a threat to the nation. and it is. there was ayou knew question. why are we so unprepared for especially on the electric grid? >> at that point my question wonder if the federal government has a plan? and so i began talking to people. and -- charlie: you have seen no evidence of it so far? >> i see no evidence. started talking to folks, started doing interviews. of the to every one secretaries of homeland security, beginning with tom and going through to jeh johnson. the ones who have left office quite frank to admit, you know something, there is no plan.

there is no plan. acted as though there might be a plan but he's been too busy to really figure out. he sort of gestured to some olders up on the shelf ofs a office and said, i'm sure there's something in there somewhere. fundamentally when you say to are you going to recommend to the american public? it was get some batteries for battery-powered radio. charlie: walk through the process of how it might happen, how would the attack come about, and that would be the one of the if compromised.ds was >> well, let's start with the end. one of the electric power there s compromised, would be no light, no cooling, water, no, no flow of in the ing toilets, cities thousands of people would be stuck in elevators but they

of the t them out elevators eventually. but it could potentially be -- i know. you live here in the city, right? charlie: yes. >> how much food do you have at home? almost nothing for me because i eat out every night. people in eat many this city eat out or call out for food or have enough food in three days.r two, very few people have enough food to last them for months. so i spoke to the then secretary of homeland security for the york. of new i said, how many -- how much food do you have? said, well, we've got probably -- i think he said or 25 million m.r.e.'s, meals ready to eat. the state of for new york, right? exactly. york, you're ew talking about 8 million people. let's assume the folks upstate take care of themselves.

million people, 25 meals. that's three meals per person. let's say they limit themselves meal a day. charlie: three days. >> three days. that?happens after no plan. there is no plan. charlie: first question though, there any way to stop it? or is it inevitable that this will take place and we will have to deal with it. little more nly a than a week ago admiral mike ogers, the director of the nusa. "the wally read it in street journal." he addressed a "wall street journal" conference. of the, this is the head n.s.a., is inevitable that cyber going to be a attack against our infrastructure. austin, to lloyd general lloyd austin, who is the centcom.r of general austin said to me, it's not a question of if, it's a

question of when. charlie: let me just make sure i understand what you're saying here. it's not a question of if, it's question of when, in is that there will be a successful attack? >> on one of our grids. we only have three cyber grids in the united states. interconnect, texas has its own, and then the west coast. charlie: do we know if people had tried to attack the grids of the united states? know they are already in the grid. charlie: we know. but they haven't pulled the trigger? the ey haven't pulled trigger. and those that can do it -- the good news is, charlie, those who it, chinese, the russians, already have what sort of like cyber land mines in the grid. and essentially by hitting a key computer -- charlie: like a desktop computer. >> like a desktop computer. it could be anywhere. it could be someone sitting in

ukraine. someone sitting in can burria. in ould be somebody sitting brooklyn. you don't know where they're going to be. charlie: and this is in fact the possibility of the internet. >> the horrifying possibility is two-fold. was never ternet designed to be defended. designed as one army intelligence officer told exchange essors could good ideas. impossible to completely defend something that designed to be defended in the first place. designed to act be -- charlie: everything that's been done so for gnat short history internet has been to expand its possibilities rather it.n defend >> exactly. and in the final analysis, charlie, when you look around, you say wait a second, there

re thousands of hacking incidents every day. they target industry. banks.rget they target companies like target. target the files of our intelligence agencies. to get into the private e-mail account of the -- cia director. charlie: cia director. >> cia director. think, careless for anyone to assume we can do all of those things, all of those every that are happening day, but don't worry about what is fundamentally a poorly of ected piece infrastructure like the -- inevitable. it is the question is why is there no emergency and urgency? why? who used to ander, -- >> former head of n.s.a. crude, aid, it's kind of

but we're up to our as in alligators. alligator. iciss we have the syria alligator. alligator.n we have iraq alligator. we have afghanistan alligator and you're coming to me saying got this other alligator over here that hasn't happened yet but it might. said in the army, we have a special group and a special charge of the n future. what are the potential issues we about?o worry i'm not all together sure, charlie, we have someone in our system who is tasked with doing the same thing. woulde: but here's what i suggest maybe, it is that it's increasing as an priority for them. i mean, keith alexander was head of cyber and head command. those were the two jobs. and mike rogers has those two today. it is a priority for them now. it is a subject of great the chinese and

the united states. >> they certainly do, charlie. the n.s.a. is in deep trouble in this country. charlie: right. courtesy of edward snowden. > courtesy of edward snowden and much of what snowden reported turns out to be accurate. to ask tion we have ourselves as patriotic american citizens is, are we more worried having our privacy compromised by our own agencies or by the intelligence agencies of the theese and the russians and iranians? charlie: and what do they want to do with the information? exactly. and in the time analysis i think we may have to come to the to lusion that we have got give the n.s.a. a little bit of space. now, you spoke -- charlie: the balance between security?d >> absolutely. and you know, the irony is groups like google, for example, there saying wait a second, don't try and control do with the information

that we gather from your lap ops that you punch into your laptops because you don't really think about the fact that the you put into at that laptop is then being used of these private companies to do what? to make money. to other it then merchandisers. charlie: of course they do. apple makes a big point about that. argument, they don't sell information. they sell product. hat's apple's argument to try to separate themselves from google. on the other hand the government and f.b.i. is very concerned because they encrypt the products in which they cannot access them. no backdoor. >> no backdoor. nd yet one of the interesting things as you heard at the black hat conference, usually takes place in las vegas. hackers go and delight in pointing out to the companies, siemens, or example, has all of these

skatia systems they create. scata stands for supervisory acquisition.ata essentially they run the that keeps our energy grids in balance. a perfect have balance between the production consumption ofhe energy. so siemens makes a lot of these systems. essentially the same scata system is sitting in california in tehran.ng they're sold all over the world. we have this s password hack-proof that only siemens technicians an get into with these scata systems. and at one of these black hat conferences, one young man gets and explains this and says his is what siemens says and here's that password and he proceeds to give it to them. o siemens had to send people

all over the world to get into heir backdoor and change the password. charlie: rechange the password, yeah.

charlie: obviously, have you heard a word about this in the political campaign so far? i heard one word from jim webb, who, of course -- longer a candidate. >> no longer a candidate. he made a passing reference to cyber attacks and

nobody paid any attention to him whatsoever. of course, he's not in the anymore. charlie: one other question we always ask presidents, potential the famous, what if you got a call at 3:00 in the orning, which was part of the democratic debate in 2008, when hillary and president obama. you outlined before we began what rogram a sense of would a president do and how would he have to respond? you know, the be, presentation to a president if there had been an attack? the right ctly question to ask. if we go back into the 1960's, what we were worried about was the potential of a nuclear attack, we would have known where that newell lar attack was coming from. the president wouldn't have had much time. someone would have called the president and said, mr. minutes., we got 28 they just launched -- the oviets just launched however many nuclear missiles and they

will be impacting here in the next 28 minutes. 28 minutes the president would have then had to make a decision as to whether he wanted to launch a retaliatory attack. but he would have known exactly attacking and where the attack was coming from. charlie: today? theoday somebody walks into president and says, mr. president, someone has just the texas power houston, dallas, san antonio. they're all in the dark. beforebe weeks or months we can get it up again. and the president says, well, do idea who did it? we have , we believe 57% certainty it came out of the ukraine. wait a president says, second, you're telling me you've got 57% certainty. i supposed to do with that? and who exactly in the ukraine it?ou think did

and are you absolutely confident ukraine, riginated in or when you start back channeling here, are you going o find out actually it didn't originate in ukraine. it was just passed through it came from chile. charlie: or pakistan. chile, it came from islamabad. and before islamabad, someone some connection with this in brooklyn. and now the president says, and are you tly recommending that i do and against whom? briefers sort of look at one another and say, we'll get president., mr. just remember -- charlie: make sure you get back to me within -- within how much time? just remember how much time it when north korea hacked into sony pictures. months before the f.b.i.

could say with any certainty. came from at it china -- or from north korea. > and even then, when they realized it had come from north do?ea, exactly what did we we targeted a few individuals in the north korean hierarchy but think anything that the united states did at that point -- i don't know what they privately -- is going to discourage north korea from doing it again. charlie: in all of the people you talked to in writing the best plan had hat ought to be implemented today? > well, the only people who really have a plan didn't form late it because of the danger of attack against the u.s. power grid. and many rmon church mormons in this

country are about as well disaster or anything as anyone could possibly be. why that? >> because they have been kicked from the political posts the past 200 years. they were kicked out of new york of new york into ohio and from ohio into -- in utah.ending up >> ending up in utah. and throughout their history, hey have been told by their leaders, by their prophet, you worst.o be ready for the you have to be prepared. it may be a natural disaster. t may be that your husband dies. it may be that you and your both lose your jobs at the same time. back log of food and many, if not most, mormon country have at least a three-month supply of food. harlie: the president said in one of his statements we don't want to wake up in ten years and we do something.

it is one of the things the president has said. >> indeed he has. seems the d it president is the person ultimately responsible for doing it. >> in his state of the union address. should he be held accountable for not doing something, just talking about it? poor man has a lot on his plate. charlie: oh, stop that. a lot on his plate. like the people you want to talk to saying i'm busy, i don't have the time. busy.esident is i'm giving him a pass. >> i'm not giving him a pass. i'm giving you the answer you from the administration, the president has a lot on his plate. what is being done, for example, there is a required three-star working together with a colleague. him got a few paragraphs on in the book. charlie: right. >> and their theory is -- it's more than a theory. they say look, the u.s. navy has een using the small nuclear generators on navy ships for the not 50 years and we have

had a single accident. hy don't we put these nuclear generators on military bases round the country so that, a, the military has a guaranteed supply of electricity? b, the surplus of electricity that they produce support n be used to hospitals and all kinds of infrastructure in the local community. wonderful idea. if indeed it is approved, it ten years to implement it. hasn't been approved. today.e: you should start >> they should have started yesterday. i'm s what i'm hoping -- hoping that we will get a national debate started, charlie. debate. a a conversation. charlie: let me just talk about you. how do you view "nightline" in your life? in my life? charlie: yeah. >> well -- me doe: here you are, let

this. one, born in england. to stanford. ended up as a radio reporter for abc, was it? was.t charlie: and television, correspondent. you said some wonderful things about henry kissinger because well.overed him you and marvin calb and others was secretary of state. then we have the hostage taking. --s to you arledge goes to dan rather. dan, we have this late-night it a we're going to make personal anticipate the show. i would like you to come over from abc to do that show and dan says thank you but no thanks. harlie: anchorman of cbs news at the time? >> yes. i think what dan was doing, he being the chief.

because roger mudd was next in walter cronkite. he by taking dan away, wanted, ruan wanted to create trouble for cbs. so cbs had to offer dan the evening job, and they did. my old friend o tom brokaw. tom said thanks but no thanks. to roger mudd. roger said thanks but no thanks. so -- charlie: he offered it to ted koppel -- ok. ted -- charlie: was it to do a week of it was a wo shows or commitment to do what? >> it was a commitment -- at remember it had been america held hostage, day 326. whatever it was at that point. hand c was losing money over fist because it was a special. a regularly scheduled

permanent program. so they couldn't put advertising on it. as each month or two goes by, they're losing another million dollars. finally the folks over at abc headquarters say, got to do something about this. well, let us -- let's turn it into a permanent program. "nightline" was born. charlie: when was that? >> that was in march of 1980. charlie: right. it lasted for 25 years? in terms of you. > in terms of me, it lasted almost 26 years. charlie: 26 years. leave?d you >> look, i left -- to me : everybody says look, i'm skas operated to have to tell you this. not exasperated. it's just two of the sad realities about our business. reality number one is "nightline" at one point had been making a ton of money for abc.

really a ton of money. but as cable television came satellite television came along, the number of competing air becomes he greater and greater and greater. charlie: right. >> the cost of paying all of the salaries, my salary, the salaries of all of the people who were very loyal to the who stayed to me with the program and when folks n network television stay somewhere for 10 years, 12 years, 5 years -- charlie: 25 years. years, they don't expect their salaries to go down at the end of each contract, up.y expect them to go so we're costing more and more money. e're earning less and less money, and there are folks who are very gently coming to me and ted, these programs you do on foreign policy and these of rams that you do on all these serious issues at "nightline," they're awfully good. they really are. deny it. but have you thought about -- hey didn't quite say the

kardashians, but the implication was if we could just get a showbiz into this thing. if we could just lighten it up a little bit. a you could just appeal to younger audience. and at that point i was 65 and i you know something, it's time to go. charlie: at some point they didn't offer you what you wanted or -- >> no, it wasn't that. charlie: at some point they got week?of three days a >> i think they were tired of three days a week. paying they were tied of exorbitant amount of money for three days a week. and they were very nice about it. my old friend -- one of your colleagues -- charlie: president of the news division. >> brilliant job as anchor. looks better than you. ooks better than me and is smarter than both of us. he's doing a good job. how would you like to do "this week "?

i don't think so. think so. charlie: why not? you know, the argument is -- the perceived conventional wisdom and may be that. you were not that interested in american politics. >> that's true. that's true. harlie: you're not a perfect fit for that and you knew it. >> well, wait a second. at that point in time, i think to say youl feasible on't have to do these sunday morning programs on domestic politics every single week of the year. just don't have to. there are, after all, really important things going on in parts of the world. there are really important things going on that had nothing to do with politics. and my feeling has always been been what hould have these sunday morning programs do. but i get it. they have been very successful at doing politics and

nothing but politics. must tell you, i don't watch those shows. them.ten to charlie: podcast? >> they're rebroadcast on c-span for anday afternoons i go long walk and i put on my headset and i listen to all of the programs one after another. and they're all the same. they're all the same. there's nothing really new on them. charlie: ok. whatever happened, happened as you described obviously. you and abc came to a parting of ways. an amicable parting. charlie: you had a lot of money place on chesapeake bay and kids and grace ann was now happy to have her teddy back home. >> i hope so. yes. do?rlie: what did you did you get bored? did you write books? >> no, no, no. harlie: did you become a fisherman? did you develop new talents? did you do what george bush did?

go and learn how to paint? what did you do? >> no, no. as an analyst on bbc america. charlie: well, bbc america, you're an analyst. was an analyst. i did the same thing for npr radio. charlie: yeah, ok. >> at the same time. i ended up spending a couple of working for my friends news when brian williams had a brief fling with a magazine program. charlie: that's right. you were one of his -- part of that. >> i was a special correspondent. charlie: why the network? >> i don't know. yes, i do. i think -- charlie: sure you do. think it didn't work because nbc kept moving it. whenever the -- hell it was on. monday night. and then they say would say

we're moving it to wednesday. then wednesday night. we're going to move it to thursday. ou can't build a loyal following, and you can't build a local following in two years. it takes a while. if cbs had lost patience ith "60 minutes" after two years, which they might -- charlie: it took more than two years. gone.would have been charlie: then they found sunday night and everything worked. >> exactly. to lie: what's interesting me is i think you were "nightline." was you.e" this was a case, you know, as about y churchill said entering 10 downing for world ii, everything prepared me for this. you were the perfect person to o that show and it was the perfect fit. >> while it was that show. but if it was to become something different, which it has -- charlie: it has. >> -- i wasn't the right guy for that. charlie: that's true. you tried to expand to an hour and tried to shrink it

back. >> i didn't try to expand it. was making so much money at that point, they said do it for an hour. said, i really think that's a bad idea. it was a terrible idea. we almost killed "nightline" in year.cond finally after about nine, ten months of doing that the powers conceded that this was not a good idea and we went back to hour.n charlie: here you are 75 now. looking great. looking in great health. everybody's k that talking about. >> thank you. charlie: what else do you want with other than spend time grace ann? >> i might do occasional pieces -- i mean, i'm -- i'm fascinated by sunday morning cbs programs. charlie: it's a good program. good program. they do great pieces. they have been nice enough to say they might want me to do a pieces.f and doing a piece every couple of months, that would be lovely. charlie: and you don't need much money. all of that money. it's not an issue. >> it's not an issue.

it better not be an issue. i got to pay at any rate. charlie: i know cbs. that it has to be a compelling story that you wanted to tell. >> it has to be compelling to me. charlie: yeah. an example of you a story i would love to do. india, they are now rresting restaurant owners who are serving beef. bombay, bai, the former is a very cosmopolitan city but hindu city.ely and even though there are have s in mumbai who restaurants which were attended by people like you and me who overseas, people are getting five-year prison terms for serving hamburger. that's a hell of a story. a story.really is >> i would love to do that story.

charlie: and india has the muslim population in the world. >> yes. even though most of india's now in pakistan. charlie: it's great to have you here. charlie, it's always a delight. it really is. you.lie: thank >> you make subjecting one self-to an interview such a pleasure. to an interview such a pleasure. self to an interview such a pleasure.

charlie: steve martin and edie brickell are here. steve called their musical partnership a giant accident. accident has led to two highly acclaimed albums, grammy new broadway musical. conan o'brien said of martin, he's the first man in history to inspire the phrase, hey, quiet down, i'm trying to hear the banjo! grammy award e winning debut album released on friday, here's the trailer for "so familiar." ♪

harlie: i'm pleased to have steve martin and edie brickell at this table. welcome. congratulations. >> thank you. thank you very much. charlie: you said this was a giant accident, this partnership. mean?did you >> i meant that it was -- it was not by design. coincidence and then we had such great fortune come from it. mean, i'm not talking financially, i'm talking artistically. a couple of bits of serendipity that edie ran into me at a party and said, i would you. to write a song with i had never written a song with anybody. so i'm kind of nodding, yeah, sure. i thought, this is edie

brickell. i got to call her. would. i and we got together. charlie: before you got together, did you send her something? >> yes. actually, the first time we didn't. i just came over to your house said, i got this song. we were both so shy. i actually couldn't believe he was showing me a tune. -- theht that would just suggestion would just float away like feathers in the wind. he was. >> we didn't really know how to work together or how it was done. would play the song and edie would kind of walk around with it and we're both a little finally she said, why don't you just record it and i ill spend some time -- ok, i recorded it and she sent me a beautiful tune. which is in our musical now "sun to shine." charlie: tell us about the musical. >> it's hard to discuss. open at the kennedy center in december and in it's coming to broadway march. and it's -- the music is based

around the type of music that we write. agreed that we both love musicals and we both grew up on them. and one of the great assets of hose musicals were very strong melodies, and that's kind of the way we think we write or try to write. a story and the story -- am i talking too much? charlie: what were you surprised about with steve? >> his heart. i knew that he was a really smart guy. everybody knows how funny he is. me a version of the script very early on. nd he's written the most beautiful scene. and i wept because it had so much heart and love in it that i was moved. i did. i actually saw it. then i went to pick up the i cannot believe you have written this. pin sulting, of course. the most gorgeous thing. charlie: you're much better than i thought you would be. and i work alike

in that we're -- i don't think us is crazy. we get along. demands.make we collaborate and work together. charlie: what was your training? >> i don't have any training. singing around the house. charlie: is that it? >> my mom singing around the house. she allowed for a house that was not shy. charlie: music in the house. >> so much music. there was always -- it was like life going on. we were encouraged to sing along. charlie: what's the process for song?g a >> well, with steve i'm inspired y his banjo track and personality and melody of the banjo. images just settle in my listen to ss when i it. all i have to do is pay attention and narrate them. music obviously dictates how you're going to sing and what key. attention and be in the present moment. >> you also have many ways of writing songs. way we sze fined it is one

thing. but i know you could improvise a song. >> i love to improvise. that's my favorite thing to do. what's attention to flowing through consciousness. charlie: how does -- steve brings out the best in you. the way, likewise. likewise. >> thank you. that work?w does just because she understands your capable of -- >> here's what great what i think the best collaboration is, is when the other person is cannot do orng you not do as well. and so edie's lyrics, she's the lyrics for our show stunning.nk they're first of all, i didn't know -- a musical -- whether you write a regular song, one person is singing. you write a musical song, you have several people singing in their various, chas are. excelled atthat she that, giving opinions, coming back and forth in the scenes.

and you have an extra challenge that the song doesn't just simply reiterate the scene that came before it. otherwise, yeah the audience know that.we the song has to reveal new information or new story or new thoughts. story.: to move the >> right. charlie: you have said he banjo parts. stock the music. banjo parts like i ever really heard before. melodic and not that really fast -- not what i would expect. he plays in an original way, i think. i hear it. charlie: you say this is not bluegrass, this is americana because you can do more things. >> well, you know, bluegrass is well-defined genre and it

generally means guitar, violin, bass but our say is -- i don't want to broader just using more instruments and swings a from ent way, away bluegrass. not always. there are bluegrass songs in the show. as i don't define this bluegrass musical at all. i think of it as music. charlie: take a look at this. you and edie performing the grammy award has come for love you." here it is. ♪

♪ charlie: is performing in front audience, singing and playing the banjo, is it the stand-up tion as comedy? >> well, actually in that show that you saw that we taped -- so glad we taped it with the steve canyon rangers and edie. several that show for years. it was constantly changing. so i'm glad we have some kind of record of the way it was at that time. but it has a lot of comedy in

that show. so it's actually kind of ideal i don't have to do an hour and a half of stand-up, really hard.ly, i get to, you know, break it up with a song, make some jokes with the band. joke with edie. and then start another song. and it's a nice, relaxing way to work. ok.lie: this is a clip from the music off for "won't go back" their new album. here we go. ♪

♪ never, never, never, never going back never going back ♪ charlie: here's what you went through, playing the banjo, it's like you're sitting at home and says to you oh, look i see jerry seinfeld is doing an of original songs he basoon.or the >> i forgot about that line. charlie: steve martin's playing the banjo tonight. oh, my god. but you passed that point. > i have been playing for over 50 years. but i say i just started playing with a band. ago now.ght years

o that's another thing too, to do. charlie: why is banjo your instrument of preference? >> from the first time i heard it.i loved i loved it for several reasons. it has this his -- ability to be played at high speed, hard, driving, fast speed. interestedreally was n it for was its capacity for melancholy. it's a very american sound. it's like -- copeland never used but he sort of didn't need to. charlie: right. ofbut i really love the idea banjo with strings, which we do in our show. emotive instrument. it's gone through a huge complex history. did the musical come about? did you decide you had a narrative and story you wanted tell? >> we had discussed that we both loved musicals. a it was a little bit of

challenge in our mind, like yeah, that seems like a really challenging thing. but then we start about it for probably six months before we find d because we had to the right idea. charlie: you said every time you get a new banjo, there's a song out.ing to come >> yes, i found that to be true. if i ever bought a new banjo for ne reason or another, you pick it up and start playing and go where did that come from? ut you only get that one song per banjo. that's spontaneous. say you is it fair to didn't take the badge banjo seriously until later? but i hadit seriously another life going on. i was doing movies and i would practice in the trailer. that's how you pass -- charlie: always a part of your life. was.ah, always less present then as it is now. now it's really, really present. charlie: why is that? doing the 're not other things and -- >> well, you know, we have something to do. two records. we have done a musical. you're always thinking and you songs for the ew

new album. and it's really a nice process. you know, you develop friends. new friends, new people in your -- i found the people in bluegrass to be so generous and kind and and talented and really smart. charlie: much success. you. great to see >> thank you very much. charlie: we really enjoyed it. thank you for bringing out the him. in >> we're going to keep talking. just roll the tape. we will keep talking. charlie: we will have a long, tape. but you did perform for us and i'm thrilled to have you here. take a look at this as we go away. ♪

♪ we're supposed to be together i know my soul down deep in we're never meant to be a part my ep you here inside of heart always have always will lways, always, always will i always have, always will, always, always, will we're supposed to be together it's true i had my doubts but not about you to be apart eant i love you now start from the will, ys have, always always, always, always will i always have always will always, always, will ♪

♪ i always have always will always, always, always, will i always have will ys always, always, always will ♪

>> rally interrupted. the best monthly gains since 2011. the dollar near august high. one thing they are watching is the recovery. figures showing the economy remains buoyant. this is an -- decision day, the his biggest facing decision since taking over in 2013. i am angie lau. coming here live from hong kong.