>> from our studios in new york city, this is "charlie rose." charlie: admiral william mcraven is here. he retired from his post as u.s. special operations commander last year after more than 3.5 decades of military service. he oversaw the expansion of america's most elite warriors across the globe and is known for devising and directing the navy seal raid that killed osama bin laden in 2011. in a speech marking his departure, chuck hagel said a full account of his military career has yet to be written. when it is it will have to be heavily redacted. he is a warrior leader that

generations will strive to emulate in every way. he now confronts a new set of challenges as chancellor of the university of texas system. and i am please to have him here at this table. welcome. mr. mcraven: good to be here. charlie: so, tell me what chuck hagel meant. mr. mcraven: across 37 years most missions we conducted were classified. normally if they are at the top secret level you retain that for 25 years. over time as some missions come to light, and we andrew jackson the american people will be pleased to see what the special operations community has done for them over many decades i have the opportunity to be a part of them. you have told me every night special forces to get osama bin laden for taking

missions like that. gotmcraven: the night we bin laden we conducted 11 missions in afghanistan. afghanistan, the profile was similar. the distances were longer. at the complexity of the mission, we have done in iraq and afghanistan are much more complex missions. the real credit in the bin laden raid goes to the president and his national security league and the cia, and those folks that located the compound, and the president in making the tough decisions to go do the mission. i am proud of my guys. they did a marvelous job. this mission was something we had been trained. and all of these seals were hand-picked to do this job.

i will not call it routine. buting about it was routine it was not the hardest part of the raid. the hardest part was the decision made by the president and the intel. charlie: they did not know if he was there. mr. mcraven: we did not. this was part of the intel buildup to figure out whether or -- there were arguments on both sides as to whether or not it was bin laden. a 50-50ht it was chance. the president called me friday. we had thought about doing the mission on saturday that we had weather and i elected to move it 24 hours. i was in afghanistan and he said what do you think? at the time it was still 50-50. if he is there we will get him. if not we will come home. charlie: did you tell him that is what we do?

we go somewhere? mr. mcraven: that has been the profile in afghanistan. in afghanistan because of the distances most missions were sealed for delta operations or rangers getting on helicopters, , ong to a target location the target, or off several locations. taking care of business on the target and coming back. the profile for the bin laden raid was in a lot different. the differences were further. charlie: we know how dangerous it is because we originally saw the loss of a member of delta force in the rescue of hostages held by isis. mr. mcraven: absolutely. every mission has its risk. the training missions we do our realistic. whenever you are training as a special operator and the marine

corps, the risk is always high and the potential for loss of life is out there. in a combat situation where the the risks a vote, rises exponentially but we are well trained and we know how to deal with those situations. charlie: the enemy gets a vote of the nature of the rescue. mr. mcraven: they are part of the calculations. charlie: what remains to be told about that mission? mr. mcraven: not much. you have seen the recent article in the times magazine. lawyers today about the looking at the issue. mr. mcraven: and that is an aspect of the mission that was interesting. aspect there is nothing left to be told. the way it has been per trade and provided in terms of books and movies are pretty close to reality. what i can tell you is we have a

approval to do the mission, we helicopters, weeight brought him back to afghanistan, we transported the body to the arabian gulf and buried him in accordance with islamic tradition and that is where he lays today. and there istory nothing else to the story. charlie: why do people raise all these questions? mr. mcraven: you know -- i'm baffled. absolutely. some accusations are just bizarre and i don't even know where to take them when they talk about the seals were .utting up body parts you begin to ask yourself, who does he think these soldiers are? this is not the way we treat anybody. there is almost a moon landing conspiracy. it was a straightforward mission

, authorized by the president of the united states, and there is unfortunately today there is not anything left to tell about the mission. charlie: you were not happy though stories got out. mr. mcraven: i wasn't happy but thekly i think in light of public interest, international interests, it was probably inevitable. charlie: it was a mission that was cia directed. and you carried out the mission. was there every emotion -- moment you had doubt? in terms of the success of the mission. one helicopter was in trouble. did you say oh my god? mr. mcraven: it's always prudent to have doubts. you need to make sure you don't comment any mission overly confident. we had plan a, plan b, plan d.

one helicopter went down. we had a backup plan. i had another standing by. we had anticipated this was a possibility. we anticipated it for a different reason. we were concerned because of where it was doing the fast trip it was possible bin laden or is associates could come out and engage in the helicopter but i had talked to the pilot ahead of time and we knew if that occurred the helicopter could make it into the animal pen where they landed. he was confident taking fire he could do that. when i saw the helicopter , i understood what was going on and had a visual. i was not overly concerned. i knew the helicopter was not crashing. it was a hard landing. so we had a backup plan and we executed the backup plan. charlie: for you surprised that

the pakistanis did not react? mr. mcraven: a little surprised. .e were in their backyard obviously we had the ability to understand in general what was going on but i had given the team a 30 minute time frame on the ground. charlie: if you haven't accomplished in 30 minutes. mr. mcraven: get back on the helicopters and let's get out of there. the commander identify the location of the computer hard drives and a lot of important material on the second floor. as he related back that there was important things they needed to get i allow the clock to continue. we were on the ground for 48 minutes before we lifted off. charlie: what do you believe about what pakistanis knew about bin laden? mr. mcraven: i think it has been

said from the beginning, they had no knowledge of bin laden's presence. charlie: how could that be? mr. mcraven: you'll have to ask the pakistanis. absolutely. they did not know. and the national security service did not know. mr. mcraven: i believe that. charlie: why? mr. mcraven: we have pretty good intelligence. suffice it to say. there was nothing that led us to believe that the pakistanis knew he was there. charlie: they were surprised to find he was under their nose. mr. mcraven: they were. aboute: in the discussion joe biden, you were not there for that, the discussion was about options. what were the options? mr. mcraven: again. it has been raised in open source material. we had options. i will leave it at that.

there were kinetic options. the problem was evidence. if bin laden had been killed in a bombing raid, how do you prove that? you could have those that wanted to keep his legacy alive for a long time. that would create problems. more important than that, the president deliberated about that. there were women and children. you will have to ask the president. that would have been a tough call in light of the fact that we had the rate option. charlie: he had to have confidence in you. mr. mcraven: it wasn't just me. we had a large operations force and other military components of the raid that were in afghanistan. charlie: assess where you think you options are in syria for the united states in the battle against isis and other groups,

and the fact that the russians are there, and there is some development in terms of assad's getting stronger. mr. mcraven: certainly the intervention of the russians has complicated the matter. i applaud the president for not taking aggressive action from what i have seen in the texts from secretary carter and chairman joe dunford. we could not be better served and to have those gentlemen where they are. ash carter is a terrific public servant. for the american people to recognize we have two of the finest in senior positions in the military and the part of the defense is terrific. now we have to be able to devise a strategy that is more than just the word can edit, the drone strikes and airstrikes. that is clearly a component of how you have to deal with isis. recognizing that isis in iraq,

we are going to need to partner with iraqi soldiers. and we need to get out and have boots on the ground. we knew to be true partners with them as they begin to root out isis in iraq. fighting on the front lines are providing services? mr. mcraven: i will defer to the secretary and the president on that. we absolutely need to be on the front lines. this was a serious national security issue. in order to deal with that we are going to have to put young men and women at risk. i think we need to put boots on the ground as far forward as we need to.

i think the threat is multi pronged. the part that concerns me most is the effect isis begins to have on the problem at large. as they have moved into iraq, you begin to pressurize lebanon, and pressurize jordan. , it is aat builds second and third order effect that if you do not deal with it in syria and iraq the pressure could cause the entire area to tumble. it is not just the fact that it is a safe haven from which isis could carry out strikes against the u.s. or u.s. interests, it is the impact isis will have on the region. you see how it is creeping into turkey and the others as well. charlie: it seems to me you are taking the experience in

iraq and afghanistan, we need to use military force that we have within our command to stop isis. it is that serious a threat. mr. mcraven: absolutely that serious. in my 37 years when i look back on the threat we have had to deal with, i see us and a perilous situation now. i don't think it is an exit stencil threat yet but i am concerned as this ideology begins to spread the more european and north africans coming to join isis, as it , itns to build momentum does create problems for not just the middle east, but you see the surgeon immigrants and refugees into europe. this is a major problem for the europeans.

a destabilizing problem, absolutely. if you don't do something about the situation now, which is primarily being caused by isis in syria, thed i see russians creating a bay area where he can continue to conduct his actions, if you don't tackle that problem you will have to address it with american military might and coalition partners. any that will join us. the united states is going to have to take the lead. a lot of people say why? it is not necessarily our fight. i have heard that 100 times before. it may not seem to be our fight but i guarantee you it is our fight. it threatens our national interests abroad and in the states. haslie: the president reluctance about this fight because he came to office to get us out of afghanistan and iraq. mr. mcraven: situations change.

charlie: because we have witnessed the rise of isis and they are not only engage in terrorist activities, in taking and holding territory and building a caliphate. mr. mcraven: absolutely. what you see from isis is barbarism that we didn't even seeing in iraq with al qaeda. they are the worst of al qaeda. when you look at how bad daddy al-bagdadi, they are barbarians. you cannot deal with them as though they were a state actor or they had any legitimate aspects to their ideology. charlie: several states in the region that are close to being failed states, if they get access to that kind of possibility. an elevation of hostility to another level. mr. mcraven: absolutely.

effect isis can have, if we allow this to go unchecked can create so much turmoil in the middle east will have a cascading effect across europe and north africa, and that will come home to roost. charlie: because we missed opportunities earlier? mr. mcraven: it is necessary to do it now. it is hard to look back on missed opportunities. it is easy to second-guess any president when you say why didn't we do it two years ago? circumstances change. i will tell you, we need to do it now. ♪

charlie: how many troops are you prepared to see -- or would you recommend? mr. mcraven: i have not seen the latest intelligence. we need to put enough troops in there to get the job done. if you begin to marginalize it for concerns that we are investing too much of our national treasures, invest what you need to invest to solve the problem now. charlie: you don't have sense of what that would take? mr. mcraven: not in terms of pure numbers. i would be misleading if i had

numbers standing of the number needed. charlie: a lot more than now. mr. mcraven: a lot more than special operations and intelligence. absolutely. you need a strong infantry force, it was just as component. we need to reinvest in the security of iraq to make sure isis doesn't continue to move. charlie: are you speaking this bluntly because you have said this is going from bad to worse? mr. mcraven: it has gone from bad to worse. i'm not speaking bluntly because that we are in a situation we can't handle. i think we can handle it. we need to move quickly. i applaud the president and secretary carter for making the decision to do that. it would be easy to say why did we do this a couple of years ago? charlie: correct me if i'm wrong, it is special forces right now. mr. mcraven: that is a large

part of it. and airpower. charlie: you have fought alongside iraqis, afghans. why is it difficult to build an effective fighting force? -- mcraven: i think it takes it is a little bit different in iraq. when you look at what we tried to do, to full the ethnic groups together, to create these italians, brigades. an army that represented that was the best of iraq. we did that well in some areas. the politics of iraq undermined that over time. also with any of these units you have to stay with them. there is this expectation that

you train them for a couple of years, take the training wheels off and go home and they will be fine. we knew early on the iraqis in particular were not going to be fine. you did need to partner with them when they were engaged in hard combat. the afghans from what i have they are very capable. we have done a great job there. forplaud your president making the decision to keep american troops partnered there. charlie: 10,000, 15,000? mr. mcraven: when you look back on the estimates done years ago, anywhere from 10-20,000. i am not sure what the lay of the land looks now in terms of how we have that relationship. we need to continue to staying gauged in afghanistan for the foreseeable future. if we don't the effort we put into it may go the way of iraq.

the administration recognizes that and i appreciate the fact that -- charlie: you have heard this before. we cannot fight their war. mr. mcraven: i understand that. but we can't turn a blind eye to the fact that their war is also part of our war. the taliban to come back in afghanistan -- charlie: they are back. mr. mcraven: they never left. parts of the never left. if you can keep the pressure on the taliban and and the level of al qaeda that remains you don't give them an opportunity to use that as a safe haven to continue to conduct strikes. you do that by applying pressure. does that mean this war will be over in a year, in five years? probably not. this is a generational fight. the problem for the american people is are they committed to

a generational fight? they need to be. we need to recognize isis, the taliban and, the threat that is out there in terms of the , thisism and insurgency is a generational fight. we have the finest armed forces in the world. probably the finest the world has ever seen. force, thevolunteer finest young men and women you will ever meet. they signed up in the days when we were at war. they know what they are getting into. people talk about the , they are this century's greatest generation. i saw it first hand. we are in good hands. these kids signed up because they know they have a mission to do. we need to let them and the leaders in the military do that mission. let them do that mission but it is not going to be resolved in a year or two years.

it is a generational five. if we keep trying to fight on the margins we may never get there. charlie: is that what we have been doing? fighting on the margins? mr. mcraven: we have been fighting it on the margins. charlie: recognition that we thought we could get away with this commitment and then we realized that was not working, so we would need a larger commitment. so we have to rethink it. it seems to me there has been a rethinking of the strategy almost every six months until you see what ash carter had to say. but they have been trying to do in syria had failed. let's rethink that. mr. mcraven: this is the nature of warfare though. the strategy has to adjust the problems that. >> you think there is the national will on the part of the bills,who will pay the

offer their sons and daughters to do this? >> i think this is where the president and the national leadership needs to make the case to the american people. at the end of the day it is up to the american people. they have to decide if this fight is worse than their tax money, worth their sons and daughters. they have to make that decision. mr. mcraven: you could make that case. mr. mcraven: i the guy could make that case. it is the responsibility of the national leadership to make that case. why do we need to go into syria, why do we need to partner with the iraqis and put pressure in yemen, and areas of north africa? why do we have to have this prolonged fight? charlie: why do we need 50,000 troops in afghanistan for the long run? we need to explain

to the american people why that is necessary. when you take a look at the troops we left in south korea to maintain the dmz, we have been there for a long time. it has been a great strategy and it has kept the north koreans contained. charlie: same true in europe. mr. mcraven: absolutely. over time we are down to 20-30,000 or so in europe. of hundred couple of thousand in the heyday of the cold war. eventually things will get to a state of normalcy. but not right away. do we need to commit to afghanistan, i believe we do. in our national interest? absolutely. if we don't and afghanistan has the ability to go the way of iraq. charlie: you believe there is a perception the united states is leaving a vacuum and there are people who want to move in like

russia? mr. mcraven: i don't think it is a perception, it is a reality. the russians have begun to dominate what is happening in syria and of course they are being aggressive in iraq as well. they are forming partnerships. clearly the relationships -- the russians are in to fill the void. that may or may not be a bad thing. but is high-level strategy at the end of the day are they filling a vacuum? certainly they are. charlie: is that a perception of american weakness or inaction? mr. mcraven: it could be a little bit of both. who is a bully on the international front. has an expectation he can move pretty freely without the international community pushing back on his actions. as long as the international community doesn't take action to

stop putin he will move or he wants to move. on russia the bird but i'm an expert on bullies. i've been fighting bullies my whole life. i know a few allow bullies to keep bullying you then they will continue that practice. you have got to stop them in their tracks. you have to stand up to them. if you don't they will keep pushing. charlie: and putin is a bully. is it possible there could be some kind of partnership in syria with russia? mr. mcraven: i think there can be a partnership but it is going to have to be a true partnership. then at the end of the day who continues to move chess pieces around the board the way he sees fit. the only way you get a true partnership with the russians is strength. you have to show a willingness,

you have to be strong. if you are strong in the face of strength now you can have a strong partnership. if you come in from a weaker position, my guesses he will be happy to have you join his coalition and you will move in the direction you must move. it is going to have to be from a position of strength. mr. mcraven: those who argue now we would be better if saddam hussein was still in power and cut. b was still in power in terms of they were prepared to fight terrorism. mr. mcraven: i think that is -- charlie: you know of the violence of their nature and you know of how much punishment they were prepared to inflict on their own populations to maintain control. josh: it's easy to look at dictators and say they kept the country together. when you look at how they kept the country together, and the hundreds of thousands that saddam murdered, the kurds, his

own people. we're not better off with saddam hussein. i don't think we were better off momentt off the -- contact what we realized early on in iraq is you are not going to create this jeffersonian democracy. there are still democratic processes that can be in place so the power rest in the hands of the people. if you get elected officials they need to understand at the end of the day they are responsible to the people. do they need to be strong and make sure that you have an inclusive government, absolutely. would we be better off if saddam kaddafi were there,

absolutely not. charlie: why did you leave the military? mr. mcraven: it was my time. three years at the special operations command. you have to move aside so that the next group of leaders can,. we have a great leader at the u.s., now. stay too long at a fax military in particular, there is a domino effect. it was time. i was pleased with the career i had. i was fortunate. when i joined the navy seals in 1977 you were lucky if you made lieutenant commander. my only aspiration was to be a seal platoon commander. we didn't have any admirals at the time. you never thought about being an admiral. all you cared about was having an opportunity to do your job as an operator. and then, as the military began

to recognize the value of special operations in the mid-80's, he began to see this recognition and trajectory of special operations that took off. there were a number of us fortunate enough to ride that wave and i was one of those guys. charlie: do they now represent what in terms of america's fighting force? mr. mcraven: i think they represent -- the great thing about special ops is they come from all forces. , and navy, marine corps great civilians. folks come to me and say now is the opportunity to make special operations the fifth service. there has always been this discussion about could special operations be the fifth service. we are not going to do that on my watch. the strength is the unique

coulters you get from the army, navy, air force, and marine corps. when you bring them together and have this joint nests, we are raised joint, the strength of special operations. it is the fun part of special operations. a navy guy gets to understand were predicted understand how marine commandos work. it is fabulous. it is a great environment. special operations represents the strength of all the services. but we can't do what the big services do. the idea that special operations are the end-all be-all and solve all the problems is not the case. --cannot stop people from [inaudible] as. special operations has nice niche we operate in. charlie: how do you define the niche? mr. mcraven: between unconventional warfare, to man,

train, and equip a guerrilla force, and our ability to conduct direct action. we have to operate in this human domain, training our allies, understanding how populations and people work. we do both of those exceedingly well. most of what special operations do is training foreign counterparts. that is some of the most rewarding work we do. we look at the areas we have operated for 70 years in asia and latin america, over in parts of africa, you see the good footprints, fingerprints of special operations everywhere. that is rewarding part. charlie: if someone did said this is black ops stuff would you say proudly yes? mr. mcraven: it has a negative connotation. 75% of what we do is not really classified. it is training our allies.

that is the rewarding and one of the most important things we do. the black ops peas of it are they classified missions but it implies that you are a little off the grid. -- that is as far from the truth as it comes. we probably have more oversight that any of their unit because most operations outside of the theater of war are approved by the president of the united states. you mentioned before we started taping about the lawyers that were part of the decision to get bin laden. unitve lawyers and every within special operations to make sure we are following the law of armed conflict and rules of engagement. discipline and the integrity of the unit. what makes us good is the fact that we are not cavalier. weaver hers and rehearse, and

were hers. that is what makes you good. you have to have imagination. if you don't partner that with rigid discipline and rehearsals on top of rehearsals you are going to be able to pull off the imaginative idea that you can be cowboy, that is not the way it works. ♪ buddy- nice place, nice car what happened?

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charlie: speaking of bin laden, what was the expectation that you would take him out of there alive? mr. mcraven: when the issue came mission, do with every we take a look at the law of armed combat. our concern in the raids, you saw a lot of the al qaeda and taliban, they would sleep in suicide vests. we have had a number of cases where soldiers went into a building to get a high-value target and they blew themselves up. entire houses fell down as a result. that was not unusual in iraq or afghanistan. the potential he was wearing a suicide vest was medium to high. charlie: did he think anybody knew where he was? mr. mcraven: absolutely not.

but we didn't know that. you asked the question about it we know whether or not the pakistanis knew that bin laden was there, were they going to tip bin laden off? we didn't know that. intelligence has shown that was not the case for going into the compound we were not certain, or whether or not the compound was rigged with explosives. the premise was unless bin laden has his hands in the air and you can determine he doesn't have a suicide vest on, you need to shoot him. charlie: and that determination -- there is controversy of who fired the fatal shot. mr. mcraven: the issue with bin laden is you can imagine you are just landed in this compound, guys are wearing night vision goggles. it is dark. they have had to engage in individuals on their way up the stairwell and blow some doors

down because they were barricaded. the adrenaline is pumping. goggles haveion constrained or field of view and bin laden peaks around the corner. the first guy up there takes a few shots and moves into the room where bin laden is and there are women and children. he has to make a split second decision, do i engage bin laden or not. i can't tell you. i was in the room. if again bin laden was not in a position where he was completely hands up and not a threat, that decision was the right decision. charlie: that was the likely thing. again, unless bin laden was in a position where he came out and said i surrender. make no mistake. this was not a kill bin laden mission. charlie: he didn't have a chance

to surrender. mr. mcraven: the action was moving so fast, you don't want to give a guy an opportunity in the middle of a complex and fast-moving mission to stop and say hands up and then he cranks himself off. you don't have the -- the operator doesn't have that time. air, in mys in the not going to take action? he was still a threat. charlie: you are a leader. you were the leader of the people who went there. is or anything in your warrior heart that wanted to be there that night? mr. mcraven: i certainly wish i was 30 years younger at the time. you bet. charlie: the operation of a lifetime. mr. mcraven: i'm not sure i looked at it that way. a lot of people have asked me what was i thinking at the time. i looked at it as another

mission. i had an opportunity when i talked to the troops on friday, i talked to them before the mission. i actually relate to do the movie hoosiers. some point in time gene hackman is taking the small-town boys to the big city and they have never played on the court bigger than a gem. he says measure the distance of the court. it's the same distance. same height of the basket. the court is the same. i relayed that to the guys. the court is the same. this is a mission you have done hundreds of times before. just go do your job and we will be fine. they did that and did it magnificently. charlie: in terms of your career, the idea of war means what to you? mr. mcraven: i think it means a lot of different things.

hadme in at a time when we relative peace. i came in 1977. i participated in a number of wars. bosnia, kosovo. there was nothing quite like the actions that occurred from 9/11 on. pure group, the folks i grew up with and how we do find warriors, first and foremost it was a sense that you were willing to be in the fight, regardless of what the fight was . you were prepared to sacrifice your life for your fellow seal and your country. that i think is the essence of being a warrior. when i first joined the seal team, at first it was an adventure, the challenge. you can get to training.

then it was an adventure. then it became a profession. when i was the commanding officer of seal team three, it was in fact a profession. i had to act in a professional manner constantly. 9/11 happened in it became a calling. you see the warriors that go from the challenge to the adventure to the profession to the calling. the real warriors and 9/11 to whom it was a calling, to support the united states of america, to support their comrades in arms, and you see the warrior spirit come out in the young men and women when they recognize how important it is. charlie: was leaving hard? it -- mr. mcraven: it wasn't that hard. charlie: you have passion in your commitment to the values. mr. mcraven: what made it great

for me was i was moving to another job as the chancellor of the unite university of texas s. i tell folks, i look back in my military career and it wasn't about the bin laden raid, saddam hussein, captain phillips, all the missions that garnered the attention. it was about being around young men and women in the military, having an opportunity to change their lives for the better. that is what leadership is about and being in the military is about. the other things circle around that. realized we teach 200,000 students across the university of texas system, 7 million patient visits a year at our health units. im honored enough to be part of that.

you see what higher education can do. there is nothing that changes your life more than higher education. charlie: how do you want to change higher education? mr. mcraven: the more you can make available to the men and women of texas and the world, the better off we are going to be. education changes everything. you can look at the statistics. isetime earnings exponentially higher than if you don't get a degree. even an associates degree will make the only your earning power better for quality of life better. youreality of the matter is become better people when you spend time around a diverse university environment and engage faculty members and other students, and have a chance to talk to great clinicians that are trying to change the world. these are experience you can get in four years, five years, six

years in of university that would sometimes take you a lifetime. i tell folks i went to the university of texas and i was a journalism major. you got a chance to take a lot of elective is because they wanted you to know a lot of things. philosophy,es -- on and sufi mysticism. what i learned in the classroom wasn't near as important as what i learned in the environment of the campus. in dealing with the faculty, having girlfriends, living with roommates that didn't always get along. these are the things you can learn in the comfort of a campus environment but then will make you a much better human and citizen when you get out of higher education. you move into the real world. charlie: you made a famous commencement speech that got attention. what were you trying to say, what did you say that summed up

your attitude about life? a numberen: there were of things i wanted to bring out. there was obviously the issue of sometimes life is difficult but if you start your day with a task completed, the make your in, everyone who has been basic training, the first thing they teach you is get your uniform stray and learn how to make a bed. you make the bed. .ow you have done something you have accomplished something. it is small. if you do it right and take pride in that you can build on that throughout the course of the day. the point of the commencement speech was the things that i learned in the six months of seal training. life lessons that have served me well throughout my career in the military and beyond. you have to stand up to bullies and recognize life is not going to be fair. things toeople want

be fair. life is not fair. get over it. some cannot get over it. they do not understand why life treats them a certain way. you are never going to continue to progress. training, there were drills where you looked perfect. your uniform was starched. your shoes looked gray and yet you still had to jump in the surf zone, rollaround in the sand. there were some guys they didn't understand. i looked great. but they miss the point of it. the point was, some days you are and lifelook great isn't going to treat you well. if you dwell too much you're not going to get up the next day and look just as good. probably the most important one was you just cannot quit. we talked about the breast well in the speech. bell.

you bring that bell three times and you were out. you just decided you had to quit. there had to be an audible signal that you were quitting. you could hear it. that you were giving up. it was a signal to the other trainees that somebody had given up. they were offering -- the bell was always there whether it was in your mind or physically there. you can quit. go ahead and quit. you are not going to be a seal but it is ok. the bell is there. the point is there are a lot of easy ways out in life. sometimes you have to bring the bell. but if you want to accomplish something you just don't give up. mr. mcraven: were there a lot of people that a lawrlie: for there an went on to be successful? mr. mcraven: of course there was

pregnant there was self reflection. they are not bad people who don't become seals. some weren't physically ready for it or mentally ready to suffer through the pain and agony of training. it didn't make them bad people and i'm sure they went on to be successful. they reflected back on the fact that they gave up and now there is a second chance. don't give up again. charlie: is that the most important test for you in your life, passing seal training? mr. mcraven: at that point, absolutely. just like every life, as you go forward you get challenged again and again. i was fired from a seal team when i was 26 years old. i have the best job on the team, a team leader for where i was in my career. it did not get any better. and then i was fired. you look back and say what did i do wrong? where could i have done things better?

but that was the point in time where you have to have somebody that picks you up and says you are going to be ok. keep moving forward. that happened to be my wife. charlie: thank you for joining us. see you next time. ♪

francine: it is ranked as one of the top companies in the world to work for and its products are used on 2 billion of us everyday. polman has made their core strategy having a positive effect on the environment. he talked to us today about what makes a good leader. francine: think you for joining