♪ announcer: from our studios in new york city, this is "charlie rose." charlie: "our brand is crisis" is the new film from director david gorden green. sandra bullock plays jane bodine, a political strategist who comes out of retirement to help reelect an unpopular former bolivian president. "vanity fair" calls the movie "an arresting, quickly -- quirky film -- a character study of a cynic reaching her limit." here is the trailer for the film. >> she is the brightest and most innovative. >> the best campaign strategist in the game.

>> responsible for the greatest political upset in history. >> you are a fighter, jane. i'm giving you another shot at the title. >> it is a presidential campaign in south america. a fragile democracy. an economy that is in real trouble. our candidate is considered arrogant and out of touch with people's lives. >> how far are you behind? >> 28 points. >> the opposition has hired their own american, pat candy. >> jane bodine, what are you doing here? i thought you retired, or gave up, or something. >> what happened to your hair? >> you still have a great sense of humor. >> how many times have you gone against candy? >> three or four times. how many times has he beaten you? >> three or four times. we will have to take risks. if security beats you up, you are doing your job right. get the beating on tape. wake up. there is only one wrong in this -- only one, and that is losing. [whispering] check and see if anybody understood that. >> [speaking spanish] >> gracias. you should feel something during

the interview -- tears -- turned -- could you just turn towards the camera. >> look at him. >> this is it. >> five points up. ♪ if i lose to candy now, i swear to god. >> this kind of matters, jane. this country could go under. we are talking about people's lives. >> you like to pretend you're not one of us. if you fight with monsters too long, you become a monster. >> is this your neighborhood? where you live? >> people are going to get hurt. what are you going to do? >> we're trying to save people's lives. these are the stakes. i am not going to stand by and watch as this nation falls apart. this is no longer an election. this is a crisis.

>> we are going to shoot the commercial, por favor. >> this animal will lead us to prosperity. >> he killed himself rather than be in one of our commercials. [laughter] sandra: no animals were injured during the making of this film. charlie: they -- say that again. [laughter] sandra: no animals were injured during the making of this film. no llamas, no dogs, no people. well -- charlie: debatable. here is the most interesting part for me -- i know -- you know i love politics and the people this is based on. the role was first thought of for george clooney. sandra: they developed it. charlie: george might play the main character. sandra: it was with them for about five years and nothing was happening. it crossed my table. i read it, and i thought it would be better for me. [laughter] charlie: he would rather float off into space than be with you? sandra: exactly.

"first you kill me, then you take my script." he very generously had no problem, no issue with the idea. charlie: the more important thing -- it seems to me -- women looking for interesting roles, they do not necessarily have to be for men. sandra: everyone is looking for a role that is not conventional, but can still tell the story and move people. when i read it, it just had words, thoughts, competitions of a human being that i thought i would like to play something like this. this would be an amazing opportunity. charlie: why is that? sandra: it is multidimensional. she is imperfect. she is not very pleasant and likable at first. you can pass judgment on why she is that way. then you see deeper and deeper into this flawed person and you have sympathy because you see her struggling, and i think that represents everybody. you know, we all want the brass ring, but we are all struggling for it, probably for the wrong reason.

charlie: this is an act of revenge for her? sandra: yes, a combination of revenge, and, i think, an extreme addiction to win. billy bob thornton is used at the dangling carrot. she -- it almost killed her the first time. they pulled her back in. charlie: zoe, who do you play? zoe: i am brought in by sandra's character to dig up dirt. charlie: she looks so -- sandra: she has that angelic demeanor. charlie: i would not do this, -- you would. sandra: and she will cut you. well, not you. charlie: this is based in part on a real-life story because we have american political consultants who have gone out -- in fact, two who helped president obama get elected or -- elected represented different parties in the most recent

british election, as you well know. sandra: it is loosely based on a documentary called "our brand is crisis," where they follow consultants that do just that. it is a job here they are hired -- it is a job. they are hired to do a job. their hearts are in that job for that moment and when the job is complete, the clock is punched out and most move on. my question and my thoughts -- is anyone affected by the consequences of that job? charlie: the consequences of being a political -- sandra: not just in politics. charlie: any institution. sandra: in all big business, you want to push a product, cell ---- convince the public, manipulate them, so they do what you want, purchase what you are selling. we have so much of it everywhere in the world. you turn on the tv, and you must say i need that to make life better, but these consultants do it for a job, a position. they are hired to go down and make sure this man wins. charlie: and tell us what a challenge it was to help make this man win.

zoe: well, we have a candidate who has previously done bad things for his country or caused civil unrest. charlie: terribly low poll ratings. zoe: very low poll ratings, and there is a line in the film on how they were in desperate need of a change and we are feeding them the same and that got them killed last time. we see the brilliance of her character because she manages to turn that around. charlie: what does she do? zoe: by addressing what is in front of her -- at the beginning of the film before jane voting -- bodine comes in, they are

trying to sell the candidate as something he is not, and she comes in and says you have to sell him for what he is, and she also says the line that gives us our title, where she says we need to frame the selection not as an election, but as a crisis -- "our brand is crisis." charlie: how do you do that? zoe: it is a scare tactic, and our characters do that in the film. it is employed every day in the media. sandra: fear -- it is a powerful thing that can help you get results in a way many things cannot. charlie: and you are saying you know hollywood executives just like this? sandra: yes, but i do not think they have that level of power. the difference -- zoe said it really well. hollywood is for entertainment, a job, to make money. you can choose whether to see a movie or not. this is people's lives, peoples futures -- their children's future. it is about somebody vying for a job -- a high-powered important job that, if not chosen well, there are grave consequences.

charlie: what is it that makes her good? sandra: what makes her good is that, unfortunately, her addiction is to win, and for her the thrill of the win is one of her addictions. they knew that by dangling the billy bob thornton character in front of her. they knew they were igniting the addict. she cannot go full-blown on the win. charlie: if she goes full-blown, she could win? sandra: she uses tactics that are unorthodox. there is a sad line -- they say she is disposable, she does not have family or children, not of value under -- other than she will go rogue. if she does them, and they are successful, good on jane, and if she does not, and she brings shame, shame on her and they can dispose of her. charlie: are you like her -- you are called in to do the dirty work. zoe: i thought about her as someone that is used to using her brain in a neutral way, that

is ammoral, sort of outside of the bounds of morality. i think a lot of these people have stopped thinking about whether what they are doing is good or bad. i think she thinks about the job as being just that -- a job. i think part of what the film is about is how jane, sandra's character, stands apart from these operatives in her dawning consciousness. charlie: who calls her calamity jane? sandra: everybody calls her calamity jane because of the degree of chaos she brings to every candidate she is back in. that is what makes her unorthodox, tricky, valuable, and a liability. you know, there's a lot of risk. charlie: if she is on the campaign, she wants labanc with her. sandra: that is what i love, she brings in this smart, understated person. you see how smart she is in

recruiting her, finding out this information. charlie: what is her attraction to candy? [laughter] sandra: i saw your eyes. you can edit. charlie: [laughter] sandra: her attraction to candy is what you see as a moviegoer when you watch him in this role. he is evil and sinister on one level, and on another level you love him. he respects her. she, him, but he respects her in a different way because he can distance himself. he can do the job, punch out the clock, go get a drink. charlie: and her -- sandra: for her, it is personal because he goes after her on a personal level, a deeply personal level. it is interesting because it does make you think of people

that grow a conscience, have consciousness, and look at the consequences, and what people can look at it as a job and move on. charlie: is it rare to see a leading female actor play a role written for a man? sandra: yeah. charlie: it is rare, and you hope it will send a trend that growth will not necessarily be gender, innocence, age, or nationality? sandra: that would be a beautiful thought. angelina jolie in "salt," that was written for a man. emily blunt is getting ready to play something that was written for a man. charlize theron -- some things are gender-specific. that has to be a woman or a man, but it is kind of nice to think that the mindset will be expanded and the open-mindedness will stay and not be a trend. we go, well, you have this, and it was not working.

what if we thought about this as a male or female, it instead of a female or male -- and maybe it will breathe new life to it and give it more perspective. charlie: with the academy and everything else -- are you where you want to be? sandra: i am so where i want to be. people say, "what next?" after "gravity," there is nothing else to do, unless there is something i want to say. i do not do things for money. i do not do things because i know they will be wildly successful. nobody thought "gravity" would be wildly successful. charlie: you do them for what? sandra: this i did because i was thinking about the essence of this film -- communities getting together for peaceful public

protest for issues and change, and are we too complacent, and do we feel to scared to step out of our comfort to do that. am i too scared? would i do it for my son, absolutely, but what i do it for the greater good of people i do not know? when you look back 40, 50 years, see people sacrificing, that has been on my mind a lot. i did not realize something was missing until he entered my life. charlie: what is that? sandra: i do not know. i barrel forward. i am grateful for what i have and what i don't have i obviously do not need. when you have something that is so full of life, and all of a sudden your life is going this way, and you make a sharp right, you see things in a different light, different routes, different opportunities. things become more important and less important. you know, i am lucky. i can stay home with my son and watch him grow. i know there are families out there that are like i would rather stay home with you then have to go work two jobs just so i can spend three hours with you at dinner, and i think about that and i grieve, because i cannot do that.

just being gone from him these last three days -- it is torture. well, i am being a little melodramatic. charlie: i know, but it is fine here. what have you learned from her? sandra: you can tell him what you learned not to do. [laughter] charlie: let's start there. zoe: go ahead. charlie: i do not know anyone that is more fun and spontaneous than this lady, but as an actress, you understand more about that than i do. zoe: i learned so much from watching sandy on set -- the way she came into a scene, even a scene on a page that looks like nothing, two people entering the room before the scene starts, she finds a way to bring

her creativity to that in a way that was not about trying to make herself look better, but to make the movie better. she thinks so much like a storyteller at all times. little things you see in the movie like her entering the room and her bag gets caught on the handle of the door, and she goes to give a speech and her foot goes through the chair -- she brought all of this physical comedy. sitting in toronto and watching the movie with an audience, every time one of those little things happened i could feel the audience leaning forward, leaned towards her, and it is a hard character to like. i thought it was so smart to have these little drops. her status dropped in these tiny moments. you felt free to laugh at her, but you felt like you were on her side. everyone has a moment where their foot goes to a chair metaphorically or physically. >> can i have your attention, please? everyone -- we are going to do something to

rivera that no politician wants to have done to him -- we're going to define him. the tagline is he is a crook, he is corrupt, inexperienced, and he lies. everyday we are going to ring and we are going to spoonfeed the rivera story -- every quote he has given, every person he has met, and look for ways of using it against him, and if anybody has any qualms about this, think that is wrong in some way, you come and talk to me. ok? if anyone has any problems about this, i will rent you a nice set of balls, because there is only one wrong in this, only one -- that is losing. [whispering] maybe check and see if anybody understood that? >> [speaking spanish] zoe: and also the way sandy conducts her self, everyone

enjoys being in her company, but the way she treats everyone as so equal -- i know from talking to her she thinks about the world that way, but a movie like that -- a movie set can be very stressful, especially when you are the lead, the executive producer, it can be hard to keep your cool and feel there is space for everyone and space for me to keep my work. the way she did that for everyone and at home is inspiring. charlie: do you want to be a filmmaker? zoe: she is a filmmaker. sandra: i think he means director. [laughter] charlie: no, i mean the whole package. sandra: i have no desires to direct. i directed a short film. i like working with a group more than i like being in front of the camera. i like collaborating, debating, offering a final result.

i love the timeline, the ticking clock. charlie: there's nothing about you that needs to be a star? sandra: no, absolutely not. it is weird. i'm in this position, and i try to look at it these days as such a blessing. i feel uncomfortable in the light. i do not feel secure in the light. i feel empowered and excited in the group, introduction. that is why i think, i, sort of, just tested the waters to see if i could do producing again and be the mom i want to be. charlie: and you found out? sandra: i love that. there are more boundaries now than when i was free and now have the ball and chain. [laughter] but life was not as good. charlie: [laughter] let me make sure i understood what ball and chain meant. sandra: my son. [laughter]

sandra: that ball and chain grounded me, it said i can do this if the parameters are met, and they were. we were able to make a beautiful film on the budget we were given, in the timeline we were given, when no one is making these kinds of films anymore. i want to make a film like this. i want to inspire people. i want to make them feel and laugh. so we can keep making them. i do not want them to break box office records. i just want them to continue being made. charlie: did you film it in bolivia? sandra: primarily in new orleans. [laughter] charlie: that is bolivia to me. sandra: it was bolivia in the movie. we had a second unit crew who went to bolivia. charlie: did you talk to any of these guys, men and women that are political strategist, gurus, spin masters, all of that? sandra: we seem to be surrounded by them. charlie: like james carville? sandra: i've only seen him -- i only see in the back of his head

at family dinners in new orleans. george and grant, they know them personally. that is their world. charlie: that is their world. sandra: we know those people. again, it is not just politics. to me, this was not about politics, it was about the almighty win, and how lost we have gotten in the acquisition of it. charlie: would you like to work with george again -- i hit the question -- sandra: i would. we both knew each other before we had jobs. -- no jobs. charlie: did you date? sandra: no, we never dated. charlie: what is wrong with you? sandra: he helped me date a friend.

he threatened the friend saying "if you don't take her, i will," but george and i are separated at birth. we are the same person. we would kill each other. charlie: he is the same way with julia, isn't he -- probably nobody like you. sandra: you do not have to date everyone to love them. we have smartly stayed away from that pool. charlie: can i quote you on that? sandra: would you, please? that is pretty good. [laughter] sandra: i want to start an offshoot company. zoe: yeah, hallmark. charlie: and then you can say -- you know, believe me, my beloved son is like a ball and chain. sandra: a ball and chain. charlie: that will do it, too. [laughter] sandra: thank you. i have a side business. zoe: you have to give him a cut of that. charlie: absolutely. maybe, maybe not. what do i have to do to get my 10%? zoe: 5%. [laughter] charlie: i will have you be my agent.

what is the message of this film? sandra: i think winning is everything. you need to make the change, if you find whatever rather know you have gotten in life is killing you, getting off the carousel is hard, daunting, the unknown, but you just have to get off. charlie: so, this is a catharsis for her? sandra: big time. that is what i love about the quotes. she is always keeping people at a distance, quoting other people, keeping them at a distance in her own words. i realized we had no quotes that were by a woman. i was like "female quotes, inspiring quotes" that put a spotlight on the end scene without having us over-talk it, and i came across the road "if you don't like the road you are on, start paving another one."

charlie: who said that? sandra: dolly parton. [laughter] sandra: did we say dolly parton and have the humor -- no, we let it sit. charlie: have you ever been in a rabbit hole? sandra: daily. i'm serious. to me, the rabbit hole is questioning your authenticity, allowing yourself to be swayed by public opinion, your neighbor's opinion, or your own thoughts, and mine can be very loud, and then waking up and realizing i have completely gone off the road i was supposed to be on. that is daily. if you are not honest about it, it becomes shameful. i am easily swayed. i go "wait, that is not where i'm supposed to be. this is my road." charlie: why don't you write a book?

sandra: because it would put people to sleep. "all about me." wasn't that katharine hepburn? i will never write a book. never. charlie: you have a lot to say. sandra: it is empty words and stale airspace. charlie: ok, make a movie. sandra: i just did it. [laughter] sandra: that is why we are here with you. you are impossible. charlie: you mean if you did not have a movie to sell, you would not be sitting at this table? sandra: exactly, you never invite me when i am just at home -- you never say tell us what you think, enlighten us. have you ever asked me to enlighten you? charlie: never. sandra: why would you ask? me to -- ask me to write a book?

you are a showman. a politician. i told you. he is a liar, but he is fun. [laughter] charlie: go see the damn movie. sandra: people at home are saying should i see it -- i do not know if he meant that. charlie: thank you for being here. i and/or you. sandra: you are the last one. charlie: you can express yourself in words you really meant. sandra: exactly. finale. what does that mean. charlie: is that something from the movie? sandra: no, but it should have been. she is a beautiful writer -- this one. [laughter] sandra: extraordinary writer. charlie: what are you writing? sandra: she is a playwright, a screenwriter. why is her hand -- this is not that kind of movie. as a producer, i applaud your decision. [laughter] charlie: as your friend, i would

advise against it. [laughter] sandra: she is a writer. beautiful writer. charlie: what do you write? zoe: i have had three plays produced. i wrote a movie that got produced a couple years ago called "ruby sparks" that i also in. -- also acted in. charlie: do you like writing more? zoe: i like to collaborate. what sandy was saying being on set -- i think i would feel lonely if it was just me in my room all the time, and i like the physical life of an actor, having to go in and embody something instead of using your words, letting emotions speak for you instead. i just learned a lot from doing it. there is also a weird high when everything clicks when you are acting. it feels like you are chasing that moment -- chasing the dragon all of the time.

that high keeps me going. i want to feel that against. that high comes much more rarely when you are writing. you can have a great day writing, but it is only you and your brain. charlie: writing might be the hardest thing in the world to do. zoe: i enjoyed because it keeps me sane between acting jobs and it allows me to use the part of the brain i do not use as an actor. charlie: do parts help you understand yourself? sandra: i think it helps you take ownership of yourself. at least for me, you spend a lot of time hiding what you see as a flaw or a weakness, and then you read it on the page and you say i understand us. you can spend three months to six months using that and it becomes an asset. by putting it out there, not shying away, not hiding it, you are neutralizing it. it does not have the weight it had before. charlie: what characteristic of

jane would you like to inherit into your own life? sandra: her brain, for one. being able to be that conniving -- being able to think on her feet the way she does, no human nature enough that she can see nature enough that she can see what is happening over here, react, and have an opposing reaction happen with her candidate. that is an amazing trait. i do not have that strength. that is not a great trait, but secretly i would love to have that. charlie: you would love to be tougher? sandra: a little bit. charlie: i'm not sure it is toughness. it is much more conniving. i think you are pretty tough. sandra: manipulate -- how she can manipulate without apology, and to be able to use that for good, not evil, and to be had that -- be able to have it without conscience. charlie: thank you for finally getting around to me. sandra: you are hard to get a hold of. charlie: great to meet you. zoe: so nice to meet you.

i totally lost my brain. charlie: after you heard terrible things. sandra: have us again.

charlie: "room" is a new film from lenny robinson. in mother and son have been held captive in a shed for years. "room" is adopted from a novel of the same name. calls the film a suspenseful and heartwarming drama that finds the most extreme metaphor for how time, regret, and the end of childhood can make unknown captives of us all. here is the trailer for "room." >> ♪ one evening when the sun

went down ire was jungle f burning ♪ ♪ down the tracks came a hobo hiking he said boy, i'm not turning ♪ ♪ i'm headed for a land that is far away ♪ >> i guess they still can't hear us. >> do you remember how alice wasn't always in wonderland? >> she fell down in a hole. >> i wasn't always in "room."...... -- >> i'm scared. >> wiggle out. >> jump. >> jump. >> run. >> run. >> ♪ the big rock candy mountain where the land is clear and bright ♪

>> you are going to love it. joining me now, two of the film's stars, brie larson and joan allen, lenny abramson, and emma donoghue. this is a remarkable achievement. congratulations to all of you. there is so much to read into it. is this what your imagination saw as you were writing this, the screenplay, and thinking about the book in the first place? soa: i didn't see a film at much to a book. it does so many things a book can't do. now when i look at the book, i will see them. charlie: this is the story as you imagined the store. emma: it's the cinematic

equivalent, and i'm so happy with it. the book is so much in jack's head. the book is an exercise in point of view. the film is about him and ma equally. it added something that wasn't there in the book. charlie: what is the lesson of this? want you to reduce it, but elaborate on what you feel like you are creating. emma: i think it's about everybody's childhood in that we all have a small-scale childhood and move out into the bigger world, but we do it gradually. jack does it overnight. i wanted this specific story to have a universal feel about the love between parent and child and about how it can sing with the claustrophobic bond at times, but also a magical bond, and how the child is always moving past their parents and into the bigger world. charlie: yeah.

the challenge for you, one room. lenny half the film takes place box, which by 10 presents a lot of challenges. we tend to think cinema is about wide-open spaces and fast camera movement, but what we said to ourselves, let's see if we could turn this small space into a whole world, also for the audience. we are trying to capture something of the little boys sense of the place, and therefore, the task is not to make it feel small and contained but to make it feel rich and fall and storied and a place where childhood can be acted out. charlie: that depends on the mother to a large extent. ma in the novel is so creative,l, courageous, and in a more t,tensified contest -- contex

does what all parents try to do, try to create something safe, warm, stimulating for their child. patterns weniversal were looking at come and that parente way in which a is a constructor of a set of safe stories and myths, and also just a giver of love, this is that story, but it is in a very high stakes and pressurized environment. charlie: you knew what you were getting when you had joan. what about jacob? simplest --was the stroke of luck. he was seven when i met him. he plays five, which he thought was a little bit demeaning. [laughter] brie: we would improvise, and he

would act like he didn't know certain things, certain timetables. he returned to me and say, i really knew the answer to that. [laughter] when we met him, we went through a long casting process, and there were various points where we felt we might not find a child who feels young enough, and then jake came along. he has all the equipment of a great actor. it's in this very small package. into the first week of shooting, we all knew we were taking a huge leap, a huge gamble. what if it is too much for him? he loves it, and he rose to the occasion. i think he's given us something pretty extraordinary in the film. lenny: what was your challenge in terms of this one room, this one little boy?

joan: once we were in "room," it was easy and comfortable to be in there because we knew what we were doing. it became this porter we had creedal for ourselves. spent it months prior building this character, building ma. in the book, she is anyone's mom, and she is told through the eyes of a five-year-old. she is a godlike figure in the movie. you don't get a true sense of what she looks like. you don't get a sense of her own struggle through it. first, we had to speak with a lot of specialists and understand how this trauma would affect this woman, how the lack of sunlight and sexual abuse, how all of that would create this person that you can see right on her face the second the first frame opens up, and then we built all of those toys. every single piece that was in

"room" had to have justification and a story behind it, had to be real and known to us, everything cleanhe racks i used to the floors, jack's old baby clothes. charlie: you are playing the role of a kidnapped parent. joan: it's devastating. it's one of the worst things that can happen to a parent, to lose your child and not know where they are. it was interesting. when i came and did some or "room" was shot first lenny andith brie and jake a little bit, because we didn't want jake to get too familiar with me. i made a choice to not look at it. joan wanted to look at it, but i was like, she would never know where her daughter was. what a before -- what a horrible

thing that is. charlie: it would somehow make the fear different, wouldn't it? joan: it would. just the imaginings of what it could be. she could probably imagine it being a whole lot worse than it was, and i didn't want to see that either. i just wanted to have that blank slate. charlie: let's take a look at this. you are trying to explain to jack that there is more in life than the world that he sees. how -- do your remember how alice wasn't always in wonderland? >> she fell down, down deep in a hole. >> i wasn't always in a room. i was little girl named joy. >> no. >> i lived in a house with my

mom and dad. you would call them grandma and grandpa. >> what house? >> there was a backyard. we had have xp. we would swing in the hammock's. >> atv house? >> a real house. not tv. are you listening to me? when i was older, when i was 17, i was walking home -- >> where was i? >> i was up in heaven. >> there was a guy -- >> what guy? what is the dog's name? >> there wasn't a dog. he was trying to trick me, ok? old nick stoneleigh. >> i want a different story. >> no, this is the story that you get. he put me in his garden shed, here. "room" is the shed. charlie: hard to watch? brie: it makes me feel emotional

every time i watch the clip. charlie: you are really feeling what she was feeling. guess, and jacob's face just kills me every time.

charlie: it is a luxury to have the person who not only wrote the screenplay but also created the characters. [laughter]

emma: it's a luxury to get me out of the way sometimes. lenny: it apparently is not that way always -- charlie: was it like, what are you doing here? have those conversations all the way through. how long did we work together? to two years. we never use the word faithful. you were looking for some equivalent. what happens in the book, let's try to find the equivalent for that that is cinematic, but we were never comparing them against each other like accounts. charlie: take a look at this. this is a scene in which brie is breaking down to joan. here it is. >> you need to play with something real. i'm worried about him. >> he's doing fine. >> i would appreciate if you didn't give him yours. >> great.

>> i just want him to connect with something. >> joy. joy, he's really doing fine. >> i don't know what is wrong with me. i'm supposed to be happy. >> you need to rest. >> no, i don't. i don't need to rest. that is not what the doctor said. you don't know what he said, because it's a confidential conversation. >> all right. you are impossible to talk to right now. >> sorry. >> no, you're not sorry. >> no, i'm not sorry. you have no idea what's going on in my head. >> try me. >> every time you look at me, that's all that you see? >> when i look at you, joy, i see my daughter. charlie: what interesting about that -- first of all, congratulations.

it's interesting. i assume you shot that with one camera. several different angles. lenny: we may have used one on jake. it was so real, authentic. he would do something, and you may not be able to get them to do it again. charlie: it's so different. what we do in terms of film and something like that -- we would have like five cameras, and then you would sit in an editing room and choose -- lenny: they are all live. this is sequential and repetition. charlie: would you get better performances? therefore, you might take a different angle than you might've expected because the performer from that view was even better. lenny: in that very seen, the first couple takes, which we shot -- we shot the wide master shot first. i don't always do that, because sometimes -- in this case, the

first two takes were really spectacular. it was fullmber on. we use that angle a lot. it's true. i scared myself with how much anger was coming out right out of the gate. lenny: sometimes, you choose a performance over the angle. .n this case, i think it works it stops it from becoming too over dramatize. charlie: how does the relationship change outside the room? : a lot. i think there is a lot in the second half. it's a lot about expectation and how beautiful it is to not have one. jack comes into this world not knowing what it is. he gets to come at it from a place out of curiosity, at times a little disoriented, but he's getting to know it all, and it's this strange world he gets to explore. you start to see how adaptable

and child is. joy is coming to terms with this bizarre situation where she was a 17-year-old girl in this bedroom cap completely intact, and it's this dream of hers to go back to it and be who she was, but when she returns home, she realizes there's nothing she was sher as can't put on the same clothes she was wearing before. she has matured in a way. she has outgrown even the confinements of this childhood home. she is trying to find a way to bridge the gap the tween the two. you are watching almost two different people. you get to know ma so well in "room" that you love and feel her struggle, and when she gets outside, she becomes at times a teenager. that last clip, a moment we were all excited about, suddenly,

she's talking in this way where you are like, that's a teenager. that's not ma. that's not this compassionate, patient, understanding person. she is completely reverting back. part of that came from the concept of, it doesn't matter how old you get or how much time you have to do charity work. you could be meditating 24 hours a day in the himalayas. the second you come home for the holidays, you immediately become an 18-year-old again. it was all about trying to find the truth to the situation but also the universal nature of it. that's something we can always -- it never seems like a spectacle as you are watching it. the kidnapping and "the room" is a dramatic means to tell a story you want to tell. what do we know about people who want to do this to other people? emma: we kept the role of the

captor not big and not dominant in the movie. we have all seen so many movies and tv shows that focus on the psychopath, and i'm sick of it. i find the survivors so much more interesting. we didn't want to write about another anonymous girl. we wanted to start this story seven years in so it's not about the kidnapping. the point is, the mother and child are reaching a point where the child is becoming old enough to become an listed as a partner in their escape. we don't give the captor any flashbacks, and the explanation, and we don't even resolve his story. we show him getting arrested, but we don't show the court case. charlie: is the escape the dramatic moment? emma: it's a funny shaped film, isn't it. the most dramatic climaxes in the middle. we start the story again to ask, what is freedom in a fuller

sense? brie's anticipated the years, but then point we always talked about is, it's an escape story, but the escape doesn't happen in the middle. the real escape doesn't happen until the end. it's like a false climax. you want it to be fully resolved after they come out. it's very dramatic and exciting come and as an audience, you want it to be resolved. breese in the position of character. you think this is it, and then the film says, have a think about this. if you came out into the world after an experience like this, there's a whole other journey to go on before -- charlie: what is that journey? lenny: i think what ma has to helps jack escape,

and in the second half, he helps her to escape in a deeper way. what she learns is she can't go back to what she was. she has to sort of except that she has had this life-changing and traumatizing experience, and still decide that it's worth going on, and primarily in this world, that has to do with how much her child loves her and how much she loves her child. that's why the ending of the film is very emotional for an audience. tremendously hopeful note after the journey they've gone on, and you feel -- i think it earns it, as well. it is not just saying, love is all that matters, and life goes on. it really shows you how i person has to fight for that and can reach that point. charlie: can we ask the question, where is joy at the end of the film, without giving away the end of the film?

brie: you mean mentally? charlie: yeah. brie: i think there is a first brought of relief, first breath of letting go of one story, and it's coming to terms with -- speaking on what lenny said, no matter how hard she tries to get away from this thing that happened to her, her son will forever be, for the rest of her ,ife, this living, growing delightful representation of that period of time. she can't run away from it. it's inescapable. he is here. we watch her for 40 minutes of the movie do everything she possibly can to remove herself from that situation and move on. she realizes, as we do, as we grow, that we can't escape our pain. we can't ignore it. we can learn how to hold hands with it and love it and grow

with it and walk into whatever that horizon is with it. charlie: thank you. great to have you here. "room." congratulations again. thank you for joining us. see you next time.

emily: investors are hoping two is better than one as tech icon hewlett-packard splits into two publicly traded companies. ♪ emily: i'm emily chang and this is "bloomberg west." coming up, a muscular third-quarter earnings report from fitness device maker fitbit, but shares slide after hours.