>> from our studios in new york city, this is "charlie rose." one of the biggest scandals in the history of the catholic church. the boston globe exposed coverups in 2002. the series won the pulitzer prize and led to the disclosure of similar scandals worldwide. it was the work of the investigative unit. here is the trailer for the

film. ♪ there is things you cannot tell me. i also know there is a story here and everyone wants to hear about it. >> you think your paper has the resources to take that on? >> i do. do you? priest molested kids in six different parishes. the church did nothing. we haven't committed any long-term investigative resources. >> stuff the kind of thing your team would do. >> spotlight. >> everybody is going to be interested. obviously, the church will fight us very hard. >> i'm trying to get some background information. >> i don't when you recording this in anyway. >> there aren't any records of any of these settlements. >> when you are a poor kid from a poor family and a priest pays

attention to you, it's a big deal. how do you say no to god? >> this is a tip line. >> you think you have something? >> need to focus on the institution. >> it came from the top down. >> you leave me alone. >> 6%. 90 priests. >> if there were 90, people would know. >> maybe they do. >> you're going to give me the names and the names of their victims. >> are you threatening me? >> i was doing my job. >> i am here because i care. we're going to tell this story and tell it right. >> i am hoping we can keep this between us until we all get on the same page. >> is that why we are here, to get on the same page? we have two stories, the story about the clergy and the story about a bunch of lawyers turning it into an industry.

which story do you want us to write? we are writing one of them. >> i'm not crazy. this is not just boston, if the whole country, the whole world. let it happen. it could have been you, me, any of us. 200 me now director and co-screenwriter of the film, actors michael keaton and mike ruffalo -- mark ruffalo. ?id they do the right job did they capture what happened? it's scary. they got us. they nailed us. the story is what appears on film. the reporting, all of the stumbling in the dark, the wandering, the arguments come and eventually, the story we got

to because it was so important. they got it. charlie: they got it. what does it say about journalism, this story of "spotlight"? charlie: it's a reminder the press is so important in our reporters,t for there are lots of the victimized populations around who have no voice. price is slowly disappearing right in front of all of us. there hasn't been a great public cry of alarm about it. your reaction to the film? and you? i thought it was a stunning the way they capture the substance of the film. it's surprising it actually got made and that it's really good. charlie: it captures the drama of the moment. does.really

it captures the importance of what we did, the way we lived our lives. the public mostly sees the glamorous side of being actors. we saw how much homework they do to be as good as they are. they could have played as any way they wanted but they studied us so well, they do mannerisms we didn't know we had. [laughter] charlie: so he is copying you now. why you thought you could make this into the movie you made it into. i knew i was immediately compelled when i was approached by the producers. the story picks it. -- it was so compelling. taking over marty the first outside editor. we all know boston is a very unique city and incomes this

onsider and sets his sights the catholic church, the most irish catholic city in the country. there is something about that took me and iy dug into the material with my co-rider and we realized how rich the story was. we were especially connected to the investigation. tireless come at times tedious, dramatic comment ultimately thrilling work. charlie: did you watch watergate were all the presidents men or any of those films -- you cannot ignore all the presidents men. is a great movie. , the lastfor this thing a what to do was watch any other movie about journalism. our plan was to commit to the story. charlie: restore you had an front of you was? tom: you have marty determining -- he read an article in the

globe the first week he arrived. it was basically saying a local that cardinaled law had knowledge that these abuses crimes of a father. his question was what we do about that? he really kept us focused on not just writing the story about the priest -- he said what we are trying to do is show whether church officials cover up for priests. larry: they were placed under a confidentiality order. the linecolumnist -- the colonists used was "the truth may never be known." that really got to marty. he said a journalist should never settle for a statement like that. if our job to find the truth. charlie: what comes through is

how hard it is to find the truth and how many obstacles were put in your way to find the truth. no one walks in your door and says here is the story. i think that's what we committed to early on, authenticity. the material and the stakes were so high. the welfare of children. we just committed to the details. theireat luxury of complete collaboration who were along with us every step of the way. it was, to be honest, a luxury. tom set this framing of the search for the truth and i have the truth is sitting there with me. [laughter] mark: i had to go and dig it up. i had to make sure that i could honest and get as much

information about what was happening inside. charlie: did you have to make any mid-corrections? the trust factor here was very big and mark came to my home and he opened up a notebook and he turned on his iphone and started asking me questions not just about how i did my job and why -- charlie: what the motivation was. exactly. i was a little taken back. [laughter] experience what it's like to be grilled and asked intensive questions like why did this -- how does this affect your marriage? it was a good experience for this. i thought, how many times have i done this to other people? they worked really hard and we respect that.

>> they went and interviewed everyone owes we have been involved in in the story. charlie: michael, you once thought about being a journalist. i have always liked it. when i was a little kid, i liked it. some of it was reading the sports section. [laughter] i took one course and i really enjoyed it. i've always been interested michael: -- always been interested. mark i think was much more thorough than i was. it a lot of times

when you create something. we had it. i need time i had it. -- i mean, i had it. charlie: here is a clip in which he is speaking to the paper's legal counsel. >> i like to challenge the protective order indicate in case. >> do want to see the catholic church. >> we are just filing a motion, but yes. >> we think it's that important. do.es, i because the church will fight is very hard on this, which will not go unnoticed by our subscriber base. 53% of them are catholic. >> i think they will be interested. charlie: the battle is on with the catholic church. one great institution in boston, the globe, pitted against the all minute

institution of the catholic church. charlie: what do we know about cardinal law during this? he seldom granted interviews. the globe used to get one interview a year with him. like at christmas but it was much anticipated and i don't recall very much was ever said that we published it nonetheless. in many ways, the most powerful political figure in massachusetts. somethingrch wanted asked until law, it happened. if they wanted to block something, it didn't happen. charlie: where is the spotlight today? the spotlight is still going strong. i'm still on the spotlight team. we have more on the team than we did in 2001. there is a hunger and a commitment to doing it.

after this story, we should know better than anyone how important it is. that commitment has remained even as the paper's fortunes have suffered. the commitment is still there. sascha: the team is not only larger, but it is basically a companion swat team where they do quicker turnaround stories. it's really no bull and i think we all hope that this movie will make people realize when you give reporters resources, this is what they can accomplish. i hope it makes people who consume news realize to buy your newspaper, get delivery, this is how you support what we do. michael: without good reporting, democracy will not work. people have to have information to make decisions. it's really critically

important. charlie: i think you said you consider yourself a player coach of the team. michael: that's right. i couldn't stand to be just the coach. i love to get down in the trenches and do what i love to .o, which is to find stuff out that's what we get out of the bed in the morning and we know what's happening. to be on a team like this where you can have months to take on a really important subject and come up with something that really makes a difference in people's lives in a positive way. charlie: take a look at this. this is where marty tells spotlight how to pursue the story again. >> that is why he had that reaction. he knew there were others. >> i think that's the bigger story. indicatembers kerley

that clearly indicate -- >> if we want to start with 50 pedophile priests in boston -- >> to get into this in catfight you got into, which made a lot of noise but change things not one thing. >> when you to focus on the institution, not the individual priests. practice and policy. show me the church manipulated. show me this was systemic, that it came from the top down. >> conflict we are going after law. -- sounds like we are going after law. we are going after the system. the church said for years and priests who abused children. we wanted to figure out how many there were and who knew.

we ael: was at the center. statementpublic saying that all of the reassignments of this particular serial child abuser have been approved medically. us law would be a central part of the story. charlie: where is he today? michael: in the vatican. he got a very nice job. many people regarded it as a promotion. he held very influential and even powerful positions in the college of cardinals. charlie: today? michael: i think he's officially retired but he did play a role in the vatican's conduct of foreign affairs. has there been any

roads into this -- has his personal mission affected behavior within the church? not just the act of the priest but the act of the governing? the church was very much a clerical society under him. that tended to protect the priest, all about the priest. by getting the bishops out of their limousines -- pope francis started to change that. what is the hardest thing about making this movie? you have good actors, good coaches. [laughter] i mean, come on. tom: one, transporting people back to a time where they knew nothing about this.

these reporters had no sense into what they were walking into. they were excited about the idea -- charlie: creating the sense of blindness they had. tom: how could this ever be apart of something like this, this iconic institution? they had no idea. with were so many moments characters involved all around the investigation so we had to thet it to two hours and amount of flow and -- of information, the spirit of investigation. one part was incredibly tedious and then ultimately thrilling. we were trying to combine those things to tell an interesting story. ♪

mark: this story was kept in the dispassionate, constant unraveling of the fax. -- facts. that gives us a real way to have such moral authority. we had gone through, as an audience, this investigation. we are pulled out of the

emotionally wrenching aspects of andng children raped and were listed into the dialogue between the mind and the heart. that's impossible to do almost and that's what you guys did so beautifully. charlie: i agree totally. the other thing is that of all of the people i've interviewed in 40 years and all of those i've seen portrayed on screen, you understand here and in other places the impact it has on those people.

sascha: you don't see that this movie. and he investigation still conveys the horror and impact without putting the words through that. ussian viewers -- viewers through that. i think, why didn't i see some of these things? it's constantly informative to me. is you can just imagine how small the target was . that target is tiny to do what andre all talking about it's really hard. --n you have the burden of

they didn't have the burden of the task of just children being abused and then faith. that's the other thing that's deep. no matter what kind of faith. imewhere down inside people, think that's in their gut and it i don't know -- how long the movie is but you don't lose interest. you care. the law.rd thing with if extraordinary. i feel fortunate i get to do something like this and when you get to see is actually good, it's extraordinarily rewarding. charlie: do you think the pope will see the phone? tom: that's a great question. i haven't anticipated a reaction from the church.

the vatican radio had some nice things to say about it. i am not an expert on this but speaking to several of the , veryzations like snap thing is they are just looking for more transparency. they really get into changing practice and policy. michael: it keeps the focus on clergy sex abuse because the church leave to do more -- needs to do more. we're hoping this movie will further spur the church. charlie: the journalistic action first of women the pulitzer -- winning the pulitzer prize

created waves around the world. we believe in the power of the printed word. that's what we do but all of a sudden now, we have this film that has the potential to come in a much deeper way, affect this. consciousness about that's an extraordinary thing, that film can do something as good as this. charlie: and at the same time to be entertaining, give you insight. mark: what you have captured so beautifully is these two institutions and in some way their part of the same problem. within the globe, there was a looking away. that's not active but it happens. what is beautiful is it never

has an institution right itself on film. come it's a possibility opens up the possibility for the catholic church to do the same thing. these guys are not asking the catholic church to do anything more than what they do themselves, which is look at the truth, expose it, and writing t the rounds. righ that's one of the beauties of the film but is not spoken about very much, how many institutions that have to be a part of it. it takes a village to raise a child, it takes a village to abuse it and that's a powerful message. the legislative branch, the police, the patriarchy of boston. michael: i think it is more

reaching -- more far-reaching than the catholic church. charlie: it will make the institutions re-examine themselves. michael: can't simply look at how child abuse and any kind of abuse has gone on in that only the catholic church about other cultures. -- but other cultures. that's a cultural thing. and i think it will spread wider. didn't: anything you have -- there is a time limit on how long films can be. did you have the opportunity to write the narrative, tell the story? we told the story we wanted to tell. there were some care is and storylines we wanted to include. 2001 when the in

boston globe was at the height of its power. maybew convinced there is a lack of public knowledge in terms of where they think the industry of journalism is now and how dire that situation is not just for that industry but for our country and our reliance on investigative journalism. josh and i struggled to include this idea. like we're missing out on that. we just thought it would hopefully come up once we made the film. role of tape. >> this is it. covering this is them for one priest. there's another 90 out there. >> we will print. story when it gets here but we need to run this now. >> no. a choice.t have someone else is going to find these letters and butcher the story. why are we hesitating?

>> he told us to get the system. deleted the full scope. that's the only thing that will put an end to this. >> let's take it to him and let him decide. >> we will do that when i say it's time. robbie, it's time. they knew and they let it happened to kids, ok? it could have been you, me, any of us. we have to nail these scumbags, show people that no one can get away with this, not a priest or pope!inal or a freaking just tell me, was that dramatic license or was that the way that meeting came down or some variation of that meeting? as a supervisor, i would have to say where there were

occasions to have passionate reporters working for you but you need restraints. beneath to say wait a minute, let's turn that -- you need to say let's turn that energy outwards and get more information. most editors really don't like it when you yell a lot them. mostly, it's a tactic that doesn't work. [laughter] charlie: you know that. thank you. " opens in limited release november 6. go see it and you will understand more about the collision between institutions and the press and some lessons about the book. back in a moment after this. ♪

in his: "a nightly show" words, is meant to give a platform to voices who always got out always heard. here is a look at "the nightly show." >> guys, stop it.

no, how are you shooting machine guns in front of a government building without getting arrested? >> we are white? [laughter] the kid made a clock and he got arrested? look at him and his handcuffs and nasa t-shirt. the brother cop can't even believe it. he's like, the last little piece of my soul just died. i get pulled over and the police are just checking on me. they're like, you feel ok? i'm like yeah, i'm good. [laughter] >> you feel safe? i'm like yeah, i feel pretty good. unlike you need a license? they're like, you don't need a license. the sad thing is, he probably

can shoot you all fixed to your party's position on not limiting high-capacity magazines. donald trump's tax plan would mostly benefit donald trump. slashedlike if obama -- we know what it's about. this is exactly who the pope is. >> there's a big part of the story they missed. he met with her because she asked to confess. >> really? i think you just made that up. >> i just made that up. [laughter] appearedyou previously as the senior black correspondent on "the daily show." he has been a show runner since 2001. thispleased to have him at table for the first time. welcome.

larry: thank you. charlie: who would have imagined that we would see ben carson overtaking donald trump and the two of them would be the leaders in the republican party? a lot of people called me crazy. those were my early picks. i said there are going to be the front runners. ,ou might pick your jeb bush but those are mine. it's like picking horses, you know. a lot of people pick them by their records but i pick them by their names. [laughter] you have to go superficial or don't go at all. you are off this week. an evolution of the

show we started out to create. you want to start with a strong idea of something. pitched thestewart show and he wanted to give a platform to people who don't necessarily get a chance to be heard and from the point of view of the other dog. he said, every important story in america has a race, class, gender. thought, ok,and that's a good point of view so let's make that a show. it has evolved into what it is now. we started out pretty strong and we are just working out the kinks. race, gender, class is under the major -- we feel most of the major issues have a patina of that in there somewhere. it's interesting how much those issues keep coming up again and again. charlie: whether it's a shooting

or -- larry: it's amazing how much class has so much to do with these things. even the pope spoke about that with capitalism and being the dung of the devil, he's speaking about class and income inequality. gender is probably the issue of our country now. there are likely hundred gender for classifications on facebook. ims with how fast the world is changing. five years ago, marriage equality would have been unheard of as the popular opinion in america and now it's the popular opinion. and i thought all the good race stuff happened before the show. it's like wait, did we overcome what happened? no, wait, we didn't. charlie: how do you get up --

you get up in the morning with your producers and what do you look for? larry: usually we speak about it the day before. we are trying to answer to the headlines. what is going on, what's breaking right now and do we have an answer, a comet? we are also looking for the underdog story of who is the underdog. what is the underrepresented voice? that sort of thing. charlie: you're looking for a story that involves an underdog as someone who normally doesn't have a voice? larry: top. underdog. there's a top dog, underdog in any situation. the underdog is more interesting for us for a point of view than the top dog. charlie: give us an example. larry: if you look at many of a very simplegive example. there is a kid who wanted to

valedictorian speech for his high school and he was going to come out of the closet and the principal told him he could not do it and he called his parents and outed him to his parents, which is horrible. is clearly the underdog in this story. his story we felt needed to be told. charlie: how did you tell that story? that's not at first glance a funny story. larry: no, it's not. in that situation, we made that story available to the audience and brought him out to give his and i kind of gave him crack during it. and the emotion coming out was so interesting. that was just one small example. toughmes, we take on a story like the charleston shooting. we didn't know how to go at that. do comedyt didn't

that night. there's really nothing funny about it. he said it was a racist agenda. the only reason why they were killed was because they were black. was a the church secondary part of the story, not the primary part. i immediately thought i wasn't old enough at the time but -- there was no confusion back in those days that it might have been a religious shooting or racial. everyone was clear it was racial took thefox news opportunity to make it seem like a religious incident. we felt like that was such a disservice to the story, but that was not the story. that. find the irony in

it's funny because some of the stories we do are inherently sad. what we're doing is finding the humanity in those stories and in that, we try to find the comedy. it's fun. it really is fun. it's everything you expected and everything no one ever tells you about. you have to work every day. what's up with that? [laughter] charlie: if you don't have a guest come you don't have a show. larry: or i have to talk to myself. for me, i'm hosting by myself. i don't get a cohost. larry don't show a, no show. if i don't show up, the ladies take over. larry: it's overwhelming at first but the more you do it, it's fun. charlie: it's one of the great

things you can do. you get up in the morning, you say, what's happening? that's what you say. larry: that's right. charlie: and you figure out how you can connect to it. you connect to it in a different way than i do. larry: i multitask in the morning. i watch about three shows that i watch all the time. i go back and fourth between them. i love your guys, your recap. charlie: the 90 seconds. larry: it's great. usually has a guess that's kind of interesting and sunday morning joe has the politics. time, i'm on my ipad and seeing things that are trending. charlie: you are looking at tweeps? larry: not so much social media.

i do go on facebook because i want to see what stories people are talking about. i just go through the newsfeed or see what's trending and then i checked the new york times. if uninterested in anything, i started reading not but i am doing that simultaneously. larry: your multitasking like crazy. i am scatterbrained. charlie: you just re-signed. larry: they just picked us up for a second season. so we get to cover the election next year. it's the most entertaining thing ever. charlie: i would love to have ben carson here tonight. larry: why is that not happening now? can i please be your cohost that night? charlie: i will bring you and that night. larry: i would love it. are you kidding me? i would drop everything to do that. charlie: you cannot make this

up. larry: cap seems to me -- i ttumpknow -- cap -- -- charlie: the first time, it's amusing, the second time, less amusing. the calling card of "mine is bigger than yours." absolutely. i'm not sure if that's a fact but anyone who wants to build a wall that big -- charlie: where are you going to take it this year? larry: we are sharpening the show, trying to make it better. we have done some things with the presidential candidates,

which is really a lot of fun. i have so food with the candidates and i just ask them questions while we are reading so food. -- soul food. charlie: what do you eat? larry: greens, chicken. whatever they order. gay ice cream with nancy pelosi. in new york, there's a place called big gay ice cream. doing fun things like that. we had plans to get out and do more interviews. i don't get a chance to do as many one-on-one interviews and i love doing those so we are incorporating more of that. of a lasere listening and answering that is a lot of fun. it takes a lot of work to have a

panel every night. charlie: that's harder than the one on one. larry: very difficult. it requires a lot of preparation. you are two minutes ahead sometimes or one person is taking too long. charlie: you don't want them to feel like they are not participating. larry: you are managing. charlie: it makes it interesting. you also have a video to add. that will produce a kind of reaction from everybody. larry: i know i have a certain amount of time to get entertainment out, information, provocation maybe involving everyone, hopefully coming to some point that builds, me being able to synthesize something out of it. i don't want to try to have any prefab jokes.

that has been the most fun, really listening to what they are saying and what's behind that and -- charlie: i call that living in the moment. larry: that's really what it is. charlie: sometimes you see people not paying attention and they will repeat something. but the idea of living in the moment. so you really do hear what someone is saying. they will give you five questions automatically if you are tuned in. larry: that's right. we just had a big meeting about when we first started the show and there was a lot of preparation spent on the questions. i realized i don't need a lot of questions because then you are so interested in the questions. i want to put my interest in the the questions. so i think at the direction of the conversation rather than the questions and how i will provoke that conversation and if it changes, that's fine because i need to stay in the moment so

where it goes, i am prepared but i have to be honest about that and just let it happen. if you can create that spontaneity, it will go somewhere that will be much more pleasing. larry: it's so much fun. charlie: the worst thing in the world -- i have seen people anticipating where they want to go and you work it out in your b follows a and somehow what that person says in a major should go right to f. you end up losing the best part. tory: and sometimes b goes 12, and your lightweight a second, how did we do that? ofre not even in letters now.

we were talking about women's issues and holly walker started speaking about how women have a. and she said i have one right now. -- a period. and these three women started speaking about women on their periods. like, so, tell us. no idea this was going to happen. it just happened in the moment and the audience was so interested and it was much better than anything i have prepared. charlie: you have any to do stand up, produce? larry: not as much time as i have but i'm still involved. before i did this, i was involved in a launching "bl ackish." the hbo thing we just did the pilot for an still involved with

that. i am always interested in writers. riders -- at some point, i will have a bigger production company. john mentor you? gosh charlie: he brought you in. wanted to you and said i you to do a show. is a mentor in this area, a master in this area. in thise yoda particular brand of comedy, and andorial style of comedy you have passion and conviction and there is content and clarity about all of those things. and he is amazing about that. he is a complete mentor in that area. charlie: he also seems to have a

really remarkable insight into what the potential of someone is. fory: he has a great eye talent and the way johnny carson did and a generosity. absolutely. charlie: i am constantly amazed at stories in which people say two things -- johnny had a great eye for talent and he wanted you to look for it. whatever he did was to make you look good. he wanted the laughs. attached toagle was the integrity of the joke. charlie: how do you measure the success of a show? larry: that's a great question. it's tough. there's the empirical evidence theho is watching it and quality that you think you are bringing to a show sometimes

that measured with the acclaim it gets, sometimes with word-of-mouth. you always try to measure it with how you feel as a group. i think it's probably a combination of those things. you have to feel satisfied with your project, know when you got the best out of it. charlie: and you know why. larry: exactly. and you always push yourself. i am always trying to push myself in my career to put myself in areas i don't know comfortable in. me, if it were up to me, i would be laying around watching golf all day. it's so funny. people say, but all you write? larry: i say, i need deadlines. andve being productive pushing myself and those challenges. they are very scary and i never think i can do it until i pull it off. people: we often ask

what is there essential talent. is yours, do you? ?r writing -- is yours comedy or writing? larry: if i were to say i have a gift, i would say i love human behavior and i really like to examine what motivates us to do things and it comes out in the form of comedy. so that's the thing god gave me. i love doing comedy in many forms, performing, writing, producing, i love all the ways in which it makes it a little comedy thing. charlie: the best thing in your life? larry: yes. with the exception of my children. so many speak to people, meets and many people. we get to tell these stories. i know how rare it is to have these opportunities.

i have a required -- acquired the amount of humility needed to enjoy this. charlie: it's great to have you. larry: it's an honor. thank you for joining us. see you next time. ♪

>> i am john heilemann. i am mark halperin. "with all due respect" to twitter, we heart you. ♪ on our off-off election-year show tonight, obama lashes out. but first, synchronize watches now. about a year from this first tuesday of november, we'll be picking our next resident. will it be hillary, donald trump, or maybe marco rubio? speaking of which, anything that