>> i am campbell brown. mark: i am mark halperin. tonight,due respect, we are all about milwaukee. ♪ mark: hello, milwaukee. and hello, campbell brown. we are here for the republican debate at the downtown milwaukee theater. which is fitting, because this nomination fight has seen its share of theater already.

there is the classic political story in marco rubio, jeb bush, the soft-spoken storyteller, then carson, and donald trump. act one, we call it "carson p."sus trum >> a lot of weird things are happening. this is a strange election, isn't it? ab somebody, and the newspapers say, you did not do it. you say, yes i did. no, you did not. yes, i did. they say, you did not do it. if they said i did not do it, i would be so happy. this is the only election in history where you are better off if used out somebody. what are we coming to? mark: that was theatrical.

now we come to dr. carson, who got a chance to speak out today in a conference about education with campbell brown, who asked dr. carson about the debate. campbell: how are you feeling about tonight? >> pretty good about tonight. love to talk about economics, economic development, and the future for our country. i am hoping we get into some real substantial issues. campbell: do you think people have moved on from questions around your biography? people said, this is part of the vetting process. >> i think the public has moved on. the media will never move on. campbell: probably true. mark: on the right side of the digital divide. you can see campbell's full interview online. tonight, dr. carson is likely to be more at the center of things than he ever has before.

it features eight of the republican candidates. there are plenty of motifs to pick apart, but when it comes to carson and trump, what are you looking at tonight? wouldll: i think trump like to continue attacking dr. carson on his biography. but one of the things that maybe interesting is what the moderators have been saying about how they will handle the debate. they are reacting to the cnbc debate i got criticized, and they're talking about being substantive. that does not necessarily lend itself for an opening for him to go in on the bio stuff. mark: some of the moderators suggested they would ask about it. p has been criticized for disappearing when questions become policy-oriented. -- be interesting to see if he weighs in on other

issues. dr. carson, same thing. he has not done policy in these debates. less to me about the question of whether he has exaggerated his biography, does he compete on policy tonight? campbell: to your point, neither of them has been tested on this in any setting. i tried to act dr. carson about education policy. he has a philosophy may be the best way to put it. they have ideas, but they cannot articulate how that translates into policy or how you govern around it. mark: in the past debates, people have tried to take on trump. tonight, i think people are of the mind to talk about the economy, what they want to talk about. on carson, campbell: it is hard with his voters to go after him. even on the biography stuff. he has been using social media to rally.

of our play is called "mentor and mentee." the new york times ran a story about the millions of dollars jeb bush's supporters are prepared to spend to bring down. marco rubio. rubio put out a video today. has is something that the republican party needs to have, which is a hopeful, optimistic message based on our principles. fan.a huge marco he has the fortitude to be a good president. >> i am so proud of his high-voltage energy, enthusiasm, eloquence. >> i am marco rubio, and i approve this message. campbell: ok.

so when it comes to bush versus rubio, rubio versus the world, what are your thoughts? jeb makes meeo never want to eat pizza again. bush was heard by having his brother in his head and now he has rubio in his head. that video was devastating. tonight, hebush just has to show people why he would be a great president. as for rubio, he is the best political talent on the stage. if he has another good debate, he will solidify his hold. what is funny about the potential for bush to go ofer rubio is that a lot people supported bush from the beginning were not with him because he was a bush, but they knew he was smart about policy issues and they believed he would be a good president.

this should be the perfect opportunity. mark: to thing about the camps is they are supremely confident. is confident that as rubio get scrutiny, he will come down. at a minimum has to get people thinking he can be a momentum candidate before iowa. campbell: i wonder if these attacks we keep hearing about are really going to come. is it more of the threats? mark: finally, act three. typically the most boring part of any play. that is about the other parade of characters on stage. besides bush, rubio, carson, trump, who are you watching? campbell: we are not giving cruz enough attention. he has a plan and is extremely effective on the stage.

at the last debate, he got a lot of applause. he is waiting for carson or trump to start hemorrhaging. a new tax plan, which i suspect he will talk about tonight. that leaves kasich, fiorina, and rand paul. campbell: i am still sort of watching chris christie, even though he did not make it on the stage. he has not been getting the attention maybe he deserves. with theging in there hopes he can move in if bush or rubio does not make it. the other thing jeb has is money. mark: they are good at priming the pump. kasich have both had strong debates. i think both of them need to have a big night so they are in

the conversation. cruz, trump,rubio, and carson crowding out coverage. campbell: those performances did not translate into sustainable bumps in the polls. mark: second to last debate is going to harder to break through. campbell: we will be watching. we are going to take a brief intermission. check your playbill. up next, we have supporting actors for the carson and cruz campaign. ♪

♪ campbell: welcome back to downtown milwaukee theater. please, no outside food or drink. but we do allow outside circus. tyler, us now are rick national spokesman for ted cruz's campaign, and the senior strategist for ben carson. a few people are predicting we are going to see a carson-cruz showdown. are we expecting that? are planning our campaign in iowa like we have been from day one.

having carson show his values and personality. we try to get him to the caucuses on february 1. mark: are you expecting a carson-cruz final? >> we are working very hard in iowa, and the carson campaign is competing as well. mark: you both have candidates that do well raising money on the internet with small contributions. i have been surprised that marco rubio has gotten on particularly -- not done particularly well. you have to demonstrate grassroots support. mark: why is marco rubio not demonstrating grassroots support but your candidates are? cruz, heng for ted electrified the crowd. i do not know what the answer is. sees -- seems to

have that too. candidates that occupy a concern land. and for ted cruz, they are excited about the things he is saying. competing more in establishment land, which is not electrifying any activists right now. we get a lot of energy. has the onlyruz balance. not any other candidate has the. >> i also think on the grassroots of appeals side, there is values. and who you're taking on. " factor. is the "it everybody in houston says that. >> and everybody wants an outsider.

carson has been popular, donald trump has been popular. cruz is the original outsider. he has proven he will go to washington, stand up to the establishment and members of his own party. we have a lot of rhetorical outsiders. >> in the communication world, people make these judgments for themselves. they gather information on their own, not waiting for people to tell them who they are. campbell: that is kind of the secret to it. he is on facebook every night, talking to people. kind of bypassing mainstream media, reporters. >> we talked to some reporters too. campbell: for keeping that connection with your supporters. >> we are in a whole new world. our years,s every f but it is happening. the way you target supporters is

beyond four years ago. prep -- are they looking at it differently? >> i do not think it is old hat. >> maybe in february. >> it has narrowed down a little bit, which is exciting. moreovide candidates opportunity to get out their message. there is sort of a winnowing. tonight ifd out someone who has been demoted to the other debate can come back or not. this is a new way of narrowing the field. >> debates are important. past, everything was centered around debates. all the news would emanate out

from them. with new communications tools, there are additional ways to promote yourself to win voters. what did you do to prepare for tonight? you can tell us. >> with dr. carson, it has been ongoing. he has policy advisers he talks to quite a bit. it is very much about relaxing and getting comfortable. campbell: i saw him earlier, and he said he will chill out. >> that is what he does. the senator is kind of chilling out today too. people are recognizing that senator cruz in all the debates turned in very solid performances. we hope to repeat something like that tonight. mark: you are a veteran observer of controversies.

has dr. carson been helped or hurt by the scrutiny of his biography? >> he has done a good job of explaining his side of the story. mark: helped or hurt? >> time will tell. mark: what is your appraisal today? >> more than ok. mark: when you talk to him in private, is he phased by this? he had a press conference where he was uncharacteristically combative. bywas certainly frustrated repetitive questions, questions he thought he answered, and parsing of words beyond what he thought was done to other candidates. but his overall outlook about the process, he knew there would be times when people would jump on him. but his life story is his life story. it has not changed. he may not tell it in a way that fits into a typical washington-speak. there is not another

debate until december 16. you have a big chunk of time where the potential is for not a lot of movement. >> maybe. there are other ways to campaign other than debates. there are other ways to communicate your values, your vision. because foxortant news has a vested interest in what happened at cnbc. i think we will get a substantive debate. we will get a lot more substance. campbell: thank you, guys. we will have much more on the circuit surge after the break. ♪

tried to get into position before all the good seeds are taken before the debate in milwaukee. we are joined by strategist for the candidates. i want to talk about marco rubio. is he the future of the republican party? >> he should be. we have four candidates for the presidency. they bring their own skill sets and assets. thequestion is not is who

future but who can be the best leader in our country. the crisison, with that we have worldwide and the challenges we are facing, you want to have somebody who can be the president on day one. that is why i believe my candidate is ready. mark: your candidate talks all the time about experience. how does he view senator rubio's level of experience? >> like senator rubio, he is an hasicable person but kasich been talking about what have you done? it will demonstrate what you can do the next time through. he is the only guy who has balanced the budget after nine terms in congress, turned around a dire economic situation in ohio. there is no doubt what you are getting with john kasich. at the end of the day, voters will look for someone like that. you guys have a vested

interest in advocating to voters. do not go for somebody who needs on-the-job training. has senator rubio done what he does -- needed to do to convince voters? >> what the debates have shown -- is as much about personality on the line as there is about experience. balancing those things is key. when you have governor bush for kasich, can they connect those policies to what voters care about? that is a question that rubio have to answer with experience. mark: neither governor kasich or governor bush had their best debate in colorado. how hard is it to come back psychologically? >> i am not sure anybody keeps score other than those of us who

make it part of our life. psychologically, if i have a bad day playing basketball, the next time out, i am thinking about it. >> i know what i do well, how i move the ball forward. >> the one that score was cnbc, an outfit supposed to be the least likely to create a circus atmosphere. all this is is a job interview for the voters to figure out who should lead the country. when you get into gotcha questions, it does not come out well for anybody. this is a job interview. no one should forget that. moderators, it is not about them. it is about the candidates. i do not think jeb bush did as well as he can in a circus atmosphere. tonight is about a substance, where he will do very well. mark: if someone like governor -- isor governor kasich there a way they can have a great debate and dominate?

candidates on stage, the tougher it is to dominate. it is about a moment where a connection is made. with marco rubio, that happened last debate. cannot happen? -- can that happen? will there be an opportunity for governor kasich or governor bush? come up in thec debates tonight? will it be an opportunity for him to say something that resonates? >> as important as these events are, there are more across new hampshire and iowa and florida. people at a time are looking at these candidates one-on-one and making up their minds. >> iowa and new hampshire have

one thing in common -- a latebreaking tie. this is one of the most outlier campaigns. i think iowa and new hampshire will fill us with surprises. mark: big night tonight for your candidates. good luck to you. al for jeb bush, tom for john kasich. thank you all. when we come back, we will have a live interview with the new speaker of the house, paul ryan, from here in wisconsin. ♪

mark: every performance needs a reluctant hero. it had the greek captain of

haca, and the captain of the millennium falcon. joining us now, paul ryan. do not think i have ever heard my name mentioned with the millennium falcon before. mark: are you a star wars fan? speaker ryan: i grew up with it. it has been said guantanamo should not be closed. the administration is being they about whether the president will use executive action. what is your message to the president and the administration about whether they should use executive action? speaker ryan: he cannot. he does not have authority. we passed a bill with over enough to override a veto. the senate passed the bill with 91 votes, well over what is necessary. the language is clear that it

cannot transfer prisoners. this is language that was put in the defense bill by democrats when they ran congress in the early part of the obama administration. mark: what about the president, aying to fill fill -- fulfill campaign promise? speaker ryan: the law is the law. need you have said that we to be a party of policy and not run on platitudes. i want to ask you about specifics, tax reform. i know you want to lower rates for corporate individuals. but are -- what are the other elements you would like to see? what are the big elements? speaker ryan: a cannot just be a paul ryan tax reform. it has to be republican tax reform by the way's committee. orrin hatch will be working on something. kevin brady will be working on a plan. it to thewe owe

country to show them what it looks like. we need to show the country what a new tax code looks like. let me hear some of your opinions about deductions, other things you would like to see. speaker ryan: i think we are getting a consensus on how to reform international tax code, to get to a system that is like the rest of the world. you want to do that as part of comprehensive reform? speaker ryan: i would love to see that done in 2016. i was working on that while i was chair and i think it is in the car. given the big trend of inversions and corporate takeovers. it means fewer loopholes and deductions. in congress, we need to force a consensus on what that looks like and how we do that. mark: where are you now on deductions? speaker ryan: i will not get

into details. i do not want to get ahead. i want to form a consensus on how to do this. countrys to show the what a new tax system looks like. that is progrowth, create more job, faster growth, makes smaller businesses more competitive. mark: are you open to eliminating deductions? speaker ryan: everything should be on the table. that has always been my preference. ever since i was a young ways and means guys. we have a consensus in our party to put something out there. mark: citizens are distrustful of taxco because they think special interests get a lot of bricks. paul ryan on the question of too much influence in washington? banks are an example of too much influence.

mark: what about big corporations, unions who have powerful lobbyists? what should be done about that? speaker ryan: here is what happens right now. people pay taxes at higher rates than they should because we have so many loopholes in the code. what happens is, people send their money to washington. washington will let you keep more of your money if you do what they approve of. that is what special interests have put in the tax code. by getting rid of loopholes, you are able to lower tax rates across the board so people decide what to do with the money. mark: changing the tax code would do along -- go a long way. speaker ryan: absolutely. going after influence-peddling in washington will clean up the tax code and let people keep more of their hard-earned dollars. mark: anything else you want to

do to limit the influence of lobbying? speaker ryan: shrink government. so long as you have so much money and power concentrated in the federal government, you will have money and power trying to influence it. by returning power to the states and people, you are doing a lot to reduce influence. mark: when you're working with jack kemp and bill bennett, there was a voucher movement to allow parents to take money away from public schools, move it towards private schools for competition. where is the voucher movement? speaker ryan: we are in the middle of milwaukee, proof of concept. sendlped poor parents their kids to better schools. as speaker of the house, there is an important issue. should the federal government do this? do i think this is the role for state government? absolutely. am i a passionate believer in school vouchers? absolutely.

but you have to respect different roles of government. putting that into that context, it is important we advocate for school choice. mark: you have tried to stay out of the presidential race. speaker ryan: and i will continue. mark: but you have some candidates in your party saying social security and medicare are fine. you have long advocated fundamental reform of the entitlement system. that debate, what do you say to the candidates who say social security and medicare do not need reform? speaker ryan: math does not lie. if we do nothing, we are complicit. this is a math thing. you're going from 40 million retirees to 77 million retirees. these programs are going bankrupt. you have to fix these programs to preserve the programs. if you do it now, you can make sure that no change occurs near

retirement. those of us in the younger generation have new programs that are solid and are there for us when we retire. right now, the status quo is that the programs go bankrupt and our generation does not get the benefits. out fromull the rug under seniors. be honest with the american people and taxpayers about what is happening and how we need to up so peoplethem in retirement can be kept going forward. i am just going to look at the math. who arethe trustees telling us that the valuable programs are going bankrupt and we had better do something about it. mark: you meet people who are supporters of dr. carson and mr. trump in gainesville? speaker ryan: sure.

mark: is it smart for them to support someone with no government experience? speaker ryan: i tell people to go with where your heart tells you to go. what i think is happening right now is the action is on the other side of the aisle. mark: you have to say what you think. speaker ryan: i think the democratic field is pretty well set. our field is far from set. is there a difference between someone who has never held office? that point, is it sensible to think that someone who never held elected office -- speaker ryan: sure. there are different kinds of experiences someone can bring to the table to show leadership. you do not have to be elected in government as a senator or congressman to be president. i think that is exactly right.

i think the action is on the republican side of the aisle. the energy is on our side of the aisle. we have great candidates. i love that our candidates are putting out what they're going to replace obamacare with. that is great to see. a specific idea dr. carson has put forward that you like. speaker ryan: i will not get into it. mark: can you name one? speaker ryan: he was talking about the flat tax, which is interesting. i'm not going to weigh in on who is better. mark: i did not ask for food is better. last question, you did not want this job. how is it going? speaker ryan: it is going great. when you make a commitment, you stick with your commitment. if i am in for a time, i am in for a dollar. i am full steam ahead. i did it under circumstances

that may make it successful. i'm doing it different from the way john boehner did it. i think it is a better fit for me. mark: you know what they're calling you in wisconsin? speaker for life. good to see you. coming up, we talked to marco rubio's man in wisconsin. ♪

campbell: it is a big night for marco rubio, and one big fan is

here with us now, congressman sean duffy. how are you feeling? a lot of momentum around your guy. >> what is nice with marco rubio is when he does a debate, he is so articulate. when people go after him, he is the to knock it out of park. he touches the hearts of the american people. lookingan voters are for someone who can articulate in a way that resonates. mark: do you see a leader that is ready to be president? a lot of people see a future leader, but still too young. >> i do not know if that is the case. people look at how qualified they are. how well they can articulate policy. if you are talking about what is happening with russia and isis, probably the most

articulate guy on the stage with foreign policy. when you look at a leader, you do not look at how much gray hair they have. you look for someone who can drive a message, talk about the big idea. marco does that better than anybody. great leaders build great teams. people that are smart on issues. they listen to good advisors. marco will do that. barack obama has done that on the left. i think we can do it on the right. campbell: just to push you on that a little bit, he is extremely good at articulating what is happening in the world. very charismatic, good at painting a picture for us. when it comes to making an actual decision, there are some who raise the issue of stature, the experience that comes with time. he has not had that time. decisions, when

you look at the history of hillary clinton, someone who has been in the white house as first lady, has been in the state department, she has made some really bad decisions. you ask, what are some great things that hillary did in the senate or secretary of state? there is not a lot to talk about. or benghazi. poor decisions in regard to e-mails. her taking money through the clinton foundation. a lot of really bad decisions. bernie sanders is a socialist with bad economic policy. policy, whok about has the right ideas to lead the country? mark: senator rubio has not emphasized congressional endorsement. >> they mean so much. mark: how much chatter is there now in the house about him? >> there is more and more senate

and house members getting excited. there is a real youth movement in the house and senate. a lot of men and women in their late or mid-30's, early 40's. they see marco rubio as a guide brought up with the same tv shows, same values we were brought up with. he resonates with them. you look at some of the older members on the democratic side, and this is a fresh face the republican party needs. it is that kind of exciting youth movement that has rallied members of the house. mark: thank you. appreciate it. congressman sean duffy. more from milwaukee. we will be back in 60 seconds. ♪

mark: debate double-header starting soon in milwaukee. we will preview the debate and come back after this.

mark: joining me now at the milwaukee theater, members of

our campaign reporting team, el, and john. you had a story this morning on bloomberg politics about jeb bush and the notion he has a robust ground game operation and infrastructure. what did you find? >> we pressure tested his argument that he is the candidate built to last when the primary hits march. obviously, there is iowa, new hampshire, south carolina. march is the most frenetic stretch of the debate calendar. bush says he is the one building a presidential campaign. we found out that is not quite the case. like his campaign in early states, it tends to be top-heavy. for performances in debate so far, his troubles on the stump, are hurting him in the march

states. of twohe tale floridians. stock has gone up. >> there is a lot of optimism, energy from the fact that crowds are getting bigger. sinking is not something they tried to do. marco rubio is being attacked from all sides, including donald trump, jeb bush. even chris christie and rand paul are going after him, not to mention the democrats. hillary clinton is very nervous about him. he is trying to emerge from this error-free. mark: you got to see them side-by-side yesterday.

tell us about their mood, crowd reaction. >> they were west of here. rubio had a good-sized crowd for the afternoon. 300 people in wisconsin. there has not been a lot of campaign activity. gave sort of a standard stump speech, but jeb bush appeared 90 minutes later. design,e different in but not as much energy with bush. he was there with scott walker. he is not happy he is outside of the presidential race. but he seemed to be having fun, trying to get back into the national conversation. mark: we talked earlier about the fact that rubio has not been a good grassroots fundraiser, has not raised donations like carson or cruz. do those campaigns aspire to ramp it up? >> in the long run, he feels

like he has to. the critical number is favor of really-on favorability. he is not generating anything 2008.arack obama did in if rubio wants to be a candidate that inspires the base in the same way, that is something he needs to aspire to. notionush laughs off the he may be out of the race. are there people that have it in their mind that he maybe get out? >> nobody close to bush is telling hito get out. they have the money to keep going. short of a disaster tonight, i sloughing offkeep suggestions to get out. mark: widely circulated cnn piece about iowa. does he have an infrastructure?

is there time to build one? can he be a finisher without having spent time on the ground? >> for rubio, a third-place finish in iowa could be good. he does not seem to have a lot of infrastructure the way carson does or donald trump does. those guys are really building things out in iowa. they have volunteer networks in place and are making calls, going to church. doing the things you need to do. the next debate is not for 35 days, but it is an important thing for bush. the narrative will be locked in place and harder to change the dynamics. you will run into christmas and a holidays. , talking in iowa say to republican leaders, they think it will be a fourth quarter game. there could be a lot of movement in january. mark: january is not that far

away. >> i was with him in new hampshire. at least three times, i will be back. mark: gentlemen, appreciate it. enjoyed the debate. thanks to all of you watching at home. you can follow my twitter feed. i will be reporting on the debate. just my bets -- best jokes. thanks to campbell brown for joining us. we appreciate you watching. we will be back tomorrow night from gotham city with a wrapup of the debate. see you tomorrow. nara. ♪

cory: you are watching "bloomberg west." a $607nt obama will sign billion defense bill, banning

moving guantanamo detainees to the united states. josh earnest says the decision the president's desire to close the prison. the olympic committee is asking for discipline to ban russia from the 2016 olympics. a report found that russia's federal security resources interfered with a moscow lab checking for doping. the hurricane season may be remembered for a subpar number of storms. the season produced tropical hurricane joaquin in october, and tropical storm kate, the 11th this year. and