>> from our studios in new york city, this is "charlie rose." charley: with me now is dexter filkins on the new yorker magazine. he reported extensively from the region and i'm pleased to have them back at this table. you wrote about the kurds in the new york magazine piece i read. what is it about that meant made them a model in terms of the democracy of their government and how they run the government in terms of the efficiency of the government and their effectiveness as a fighting force? >> i think infighting, they have a lot of practice.

they have been fighting saddam for years. i think the main reason the government is as strong as it is . it has been going now for almost 20 years. first essentially liberated the kurds in the first gulf war in 1991. they have basically been autonomous since then. 1991 is essentially the birth of the kurdish government. they have been at it for a long time. they have had to protect that area and fight for it and it's very ethically homogeneous there. they have had a big head start on everyone else. fromie: a lot of support american airstrikes more so than coalition. dexter: everyone is dropping

out. charlie: it's really america from the air and the kurds on the ground. from all the contacts you know they would not want to take basel because -- basel -- mozul? dexter: that is my impression. the americans would love it if they would. charlie: the iraqis would love it if they would. dexter: yeah. maybe they will be persuaded to do it but if you look back to went intowhen isis mozilla and western iraq, it was the iraqi army, tens of thousands of iraqi soldiers were ul when isis just walked in and the iraqi army disintegrated. charlie: they fled. dexter: they through the uniforms and ran. charlie: there is a political

thetion obviously from when previous iraqi government was in power. now you have a new prime minister who talks a different story. this is a political issue and everybody says they somehow have to rally the sunnis to be willing to fight against isis in order to have a chance. i think they have to rally the sunnis. that hasn't happened yet. charlie: they still aren't convinced -- dexter: the shia government will instance you take for -- isis is old and around. despite all of these airstrikes, they still have ramadi. the whole area along the river is in the hands of isis. .p the tigris, they have mozul

they are doing pretty well. and conversely, the iraqi army is not. with the iraqi government has essentially come to rely on is she a malicious. militias. charlie: there has been some backing by the u.s. will it be effective? dexter: i doubt it. the news this week was that president obama had decided to send 50 special forces guys to the kurdish region of northeastern -- charlie: on the front lines or something support at the front? dexter: i think they will do a lot of support but like 50 guys? they will be able to do a lot and i think they will be able to do stuff like gordon the airstrikes so they will be more effective. they're hoping the kurds will push out a little more. 50 troops.

charlie: what you know about the russian effectiveness in syria? dexter: oh, man . one of the first thing the russian jets did was bombed some of the groups the u.s. has been supporting. but theangled mess russians one of course. the reason they went in so as -- save to get assad. they thought he was in danger. charlie: their claims to be some russian plan coming out of the u.n. they believe they can have some kind of negotiation. most people don't perceive there is a great love affair on part of the russians and vladimir putin and bashar assad. dexter: i think they are very wary of each other. i think the feeling is vladimir putin fears more than anything a

collapse of the state in syria. and the jihadi's taking over the state and more russian muslims going into fight. i don't think he feels anything in his art for assad. charlie: he is seemingly circulating some kind of political election that would take place. dexter: it's hard to imagine right now. charlie: elections in syria? dexter: any kind of political --tlement going on the giving what is going on on the battlefield. you can imagine at a point you can have a government of some sort, probably a coalition . charlie: that would be satisfying to all parts, including the iranians. dexter: right and i think the iranians are much more inclined assadpport a sawed --

himself than vladimir putin is. i don't see that happening for some time. charlie: i don't what the word effete medes in this case but my question is have you seen any -- because of your long involvement in the region and a raucous actually -- have you seen -- and iraq especially -- have you seen any plan that would lead to a significant decline in isis? dexter: no, i don't. look, i'll see the political will in the administration. as much as are doing we are going to do. dexter: there's is only so much you can do from the air and without people on the ground. the craven was here, head of special forces, home you know, advocating american troops on the ground to get the job done because he thought the

stakes were that high. a political, that's decision. military people have said to me the airstrikes themselves would be more effective if you had people on the ground. the people on the ground can look at a building and say that our civilians in that building. charlie: from a military perspective, you have to have people on the ground to be effective. dexter: i think so. charlie: there will not come from the other arab states. dexter: they are dropping out. they are not done airstrikes in months. they are focused on yemen. that is chaos as well. it's hard for me to see a change in the status. charlie: we're looking at some success on the battleground and singe our -- sinjar. what are we looking at over the long-term? --ter: the situation in iraq

certainly for the kurds, i think it's ok. but if ice isok still controlled territory between syria and iraq -- isis still controls territory between syria and iraq, we can live with that, can we? dexter: i think the fundamental problem here in both of those so -- is there artificial charlie: so there no reason for them to survive. dexter: people to want to die for a rock, that's the problem. as a state, a nation, it's broken. we are trying to hold these things together and it's not clear that they wanted more than we do. i think that's the kind of fundamental problem here is who wants to die for iraq? hard to find iraqis

that want to do that. you can find kurds, sunnis who want to fight for isis but he wants to die for a rock -- i raq? charlie: thank you for coming. dexter filkins with new yorker magazine. back in a moment. ♪

charlie: the founder and executive chairman of the world economic forum.

the organizational conferences with global leaders all over the world, included -- including in switzerland in january. he created the world economic forum in 1971 with a mission of improving the state of the world. if you have upcoming meeting will focus on mastering the fourth industrial revolution, referred to the period of digital transformation that will have profound effects on economies, societies, and human behavior. this first.bout you started this in 1971. you were out at that time what? >> was a professor and i had written a book on a concept that means business leaders should have an interest in the stake in business.

end and i felt stakeholders should meet.. in the meantime, it has developed and today, we have become the official international organization for public private corporations, which means to bring the public sector -- charlie: you say official. that means you have been designated as such. dexter: by the swiss government. similar to the olympic committee. charlie: how many meetings are there each year now? dexter: the meetings plan important role and we have doubles and maybe five or six other big meetings. colleagues, my 700 where mainly engaged in task forces, and working groups. governments,ther

business, and civil society to address specific issues. charlie: they are big things. it may be india rising as it was one year. >> or for example where working together with the french on a conference on the environment. we were engaged in the development of sustainability with the u.n. charlie: how has it changed? >> kit changed very much in terms of -- it changed very much in terms of business today as a -- to provide global goods, to integrate and dissolution of the big challenges we have in the world. charlie: i notice that from what i do. i was at apple doing a series of pieces for 60 minutes about apple.

they clearly have a sense of that. but only are they creating great products and not only do they play a role in today's society but there is a larger sense they have that we want to change the world. >> yes. to show that you deserve the best of your customers, employees. today, people have become very sophisticated. you have to show you are really committed to society. charlie: not only that. they are doing it on issues of sustainability, the environment. mere is a sense it seems to that they recognize that corporations in the private sector has two things. one, resources. money and lots of other things.

they have resources. have foundy, they they can work in combination with the public sector and universities to create bigger goals. >> of course today's big issue if youever you take -- courses, youeer have to create the conditions in those countries which keeps the people at home. so, this concept of working together, partnership, is well in compliance. the recognition by corporations. >> of the need to engage together with governments, society, and join efforts. torlie: you say you want

talk about in this year's conference in january mastering the fourth industrial revolution. >> when we look at the world today, we see governments and mastering.gage in if you look into the future, there is so much going on in technology. it's the real evolution and societies will be so much affected with what is going on in research and innovation. we are not sufficiently prepared for it. just look at the discussion. toshows how difficult it is find the necessary norms. at things like

gene editing and opening a whole new horizon for medical science. klaus: the fourth industrial revolution doesn't change what you are doing. it changes you. if you take genetic editing as an example, it is you who are changing. of course, a big impact on your identity. thatie: and possibilities you have to be careful about. when you begin to do gene some people said you were changing what it means to be human. the problem.s the new industrial revolution has many opportunities that raises many questions on the ethical and even legal implications. we have to be prepared for it. comeie: the reason people

is because the subjects are youresting, let's say, and have the leading people in a variety of private and public who come. and thirdly, it seems to me within that short time of a week, an opportunity to cross fertilize with a whole range of people in one place that you cannot easily replicate. klaus: i would add another die mention. another dimension. it is to look at all of the issues. charlie: seeing the contribution of everyone and how they relate. meetings related to one specific issue. today, live in an interconnected world. whatever you do in the political sphere, social security, is in

some way interrelated and should shape your contextual intelligence. charlie: 20 talk about technology and the way it can be deployed -- when you talk about technology and the way it can be deployed, how will that be implement it? klaus: it's a big question. robots.gy, charlie: machines. -- s: not everyone a question for governments and business alike and society will upscaleo we rescale and people to keep pace with what is

going on in terms of technology progress. this will also affect the entire national security arena. klaus: if we look at fighting -- it's a bigy , what we call asymmetry. with small means come you can do great damage. charlie: asymmetrical warfare. the most intense subject between the u.s. and china is the idea of cyber espionage and cyber warfare and the possibility of taking down someone's electronic grid. klaus: exactly. we had first cyber espionage and then cyber stealing but the issue is to implant some of

malware as we call it into the system, which you can at a given moment put into operation. charlie: the irani and self the brunt of that -- the iranians felt the brunt of that. klaus: this is just an threats,n of the big which the new technological characterizes. even more opportunities. we have to make sure we concentrate on using the opportunities because practically every issue in the world can also be solved -- disease, environmental -- by the technologies now available. charlie: it's amazing people talk about curing cancer, blindness. they see them as within reach because of the technology, all

of the developments in stem cell. it's really remarkable what people can imagine. we have the tools to imagine. more than 50% of people said it will be possible within the next 10 years to three-dimensional print human organs. charlie: it's amazing. as you talk about these kinds of evolutions in this fourth revolution, they're also be a need for new governmental structure, rules, regulation, a new structure to comprehend the possibilities that are being unleashed. klaus: the problem is governments have a different pace in terms of how they approach change compared to business. governmentsrtant is

become agile. we even have to go into the direction of what i would call agile norm setting, agile legislation, which means we have to have a cooperation between government agencies, parliaments, and the business community to bring the standards of norms and legislation raised to the latest levels of technological developments. charlie: let's talk about these things. he said the fourth revolution is from from the previous ones in the following -- first, speed. took: look at how long it google. to become a $50 billion company. and a disruptive technology. klaus: if the velocity, it's

disruptive. the new technological revolution is in principle not revolution of new products and services, it's a system revolution. the whole system has changed. charlie: you set the second reason is that it's not related to one area. look at brain research. as we have it today, it would not be possible without the progress in the information technology. charlie: the third difference that separates the fourth ,evolution is that beyond speed it is not about a single product. it's about systems. klaus: exactly. it's the systems revolution. it's not a new product. charlie: it's a shared economy. klaus: it creates completely new

conditions for the economy. charlie: you have been doing this since 1972. how long will you want to do it? klaus: as long as i can serve the world. as long as i have the energy. thatie: do you find today the most powerful leaders in the world what to come to talk about who they are, what they believe? you have had some famous fight as well. you have had famous people who are genetically opposed on the same stage -- dramatically opposed on the same stage. they walked off as i remember. the traction for not the people come as guests but people who come as primary components, participants is what? led toi think it has

tell political leaders to come. today, the situation has come because politicians come back to this notion of public and private corporation. the big issues which they have to confront. they need the help. the old world is gone. its execution. it needs the support of the other components of society. charlie: with all the change at some point, people will not want to go to conferences anymore or need to. klaus: that is the principle builthat we are doing is into the ongoing work process. haveo demand people will

download all of the knowledge you want to have but you go to a meeting to be part of a process. i think that's very important. what we are trying now to do is to integrate into this process the digital dimension, talking about the technology revolution or industrial revolution ourselves. we have to learn what it means to us. charlie: it's great to have you here. klaus: thank you. charlie: back in a moment. stay with us. ♪ you used to sleep like a champ.

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" is vital thater we do is a new film by pulled me film byer" is a new paul bettany. here is a trailer for the film. [horn honking] >> this is new york. it's not something for nothing town. >> can't do that. >> nigerian came out on a visa

and has overstayed his welcome. >> there is just no place i can get you both into. >> we need to leave now. >> we need something good. this is something good. >> i'm looking for my daughter, hannah? >> you have a child. >> what are you doing? >> who are you? >> who am i? i made such a mess. what i did is unforgivable. i don't know how to be in the world at all. >> ♪

>> ♪ >> used to live in a place like this. i was married. able toi haven't been see past [indiscernible] >> you have been having to hold back. it will be different this time. >> ♪ amen charlie: joining me now is the director and cast of the film, a court winning actors -- award-winning actors, jennifer connelly, anthony mackie, and paul bettany. this is your first -- your directorial debut. where did your passion for the film come from? why was it a labor of love for you? old: i dear, -- a dear,

friend of mine, ron howard, asked why i had not directed a film yet. i said, i'm waiting for the secret to get passed on. he said, what do you mean? the secret that you pass on. he said, paul, there is no secret, just get on with it. i was thinking about it. i was thinking about what i might like to make a film about. i'm rather interested in judgment. -- world i'm living in used seems to be a world of increasing gray area, but the culture seems to be getting more entrenched in black and white positions. i had no idea it was going to be about homelessness yet. sandy,e time, hurricane the same time it was percolating, hurricane sandy hit. there was a homeless couple that lived outside of our apartment in tribeca. we said hello to them. they said hello to our children. that theyd to say

sort of became invisible to me there. their poverty became more and more acceptable somehow, and i stopped being able to see them. and they disappeared actually before they really disappeared in hurricane sandy. they really weren't there anymore. i felt a lot of shame surrounding that and thought i might like to write about them, but i didn't know them. actually,ght, well, maybe that's a really interesting way with which to discuss judgment, because i do think that our response to homelessness is puzzling. charlie: what do you mean by "judgment"? -- : i mean that my my feeling is that you look -- people look at a homeless person and they immediately come to a list of conclusions, all that absorb themselves of any blame or danger in finding themselves that this -- themselves in the

same position. my late father had just died. i was just think about him. he was a very religious man. i'm not. he used to say this thing. "there but for the grace of god go i." and i love that sentiment. it has an admission of how precarious life is and how it .ould so easily be us so, that's really where it came from. charlie: and there are deep levels of homelessness and poverty and also medical issues as well. paul: absolutely. charlie: there are all kinds of people, "there but for the grace of god" find themselves in these circumstances. paul: yes. there are all types of homeless people that have recently slipped by the wayside.

last year in new york city, we passed two huge milestones. first apartment for $100 million sold and 60,000 of new york's residents slept in the municipal shelter system every night. charlie: how many? 60,000.paul: 24,000 of them were children. over half of new york's homeless population our families. and this is home -- a town that is home to more billionaires than anywhere else on earth. that is an untenable situation. we are told that it is an unsolvable problem, and it really isn't. so many has lost a family member, lost a job, -- somebody has lost a family member, lost a job, has addiction problems -- who am i to judge? how simply, how easily it could be me? charlie: tell me about your

character. complex he became more than he was originally. , i wasread the script impressed by the level of humanity and dignity that paul put into these characters. he was an educated man who lost his family and, for lack of better terms, became a terrorist. to get away from that, he left his country and came to america here.st try to find -- he never truly got over the loss of his wife and child, who were cute -- killed and mutilated right in front of him. solace, hisizes his heaven his ticket into is this young, beautiful woman he comes across. hannah. charlie: hannah. anthony: and just realizes that,

if he can save her, he can somehow possibly save himself. charlie: and why does she need saving? hannah, when we meet her, she is a woman who, i think she doesn't know how to be in this world, how to be in life anymore. she is not quite able to be here, yet she is not quite able to let go. she is tethered by something. later in the film, we discover what or who it is, more accurately. and she is someone who experienced loss and tragedy in to what ind turned think was kind of an old habit, which is the use. and i think, in an attempt to escape the pain she was feeling, it wound up creating somewhat more pain, because, ultimately,

she wound up doing things that she couldn't bear to sustain her habit. and so, ultimately, she made more of a mess. charlie: and what's the relationship? jennifer: he's -- they meet because she is actually -- she has actually stolen his jacket. charlie: yeah, right. jennifer: so, he has been -- he was in prison for the night. we assume, like in the drunk tank or something. and comes out and his stuff is gone from the alleyway. and he is sort of walking around, trying to find some things to replace the things that were stolen and sees this woman wearing his jacket, very recognizable jacket, and starts following her. and then that's how it starts.

and then he sees something in her. that's for anthony to talk about what that may or may not be. and it's the beginning of this relationship. anda first, he actually -- at first, he actually -- she has decided that she is going to try again to leave. which is to jump off the bridge. and he stopped her. -- he stops her and she is furious at him, but also it's the beginning of their love story. charlie: so, what happens when she -- when tahir finds out that she has a son? outraged,ink he is and he has a moment of judgment. just in addition to what we were talking about just earlier. before it was a story about homeless people, i knew i wanted to make a romance. if i wantght, well, to make a film about judgment, what would it be like if i put two people together who are, on

paper, just unforgivable, the things that they have done our unforgivable? introduce you to them before you learn about them as an audience and you fall in love with them, then reveal this thing to each other and to you, the audience. then make you love them again and forgive them. so, that was the sort of -- that was the sort of idea. hir, it's an, for ta unbearable idea. his child was ripped away from him. the very idea that this woman has has -- has chosen to leave -- child alone is a portent is abhorrent to him. they are very much, in almost a very real way, she is the person that took her husband away from her, or something very similar to him, which caused her to fall

so slowly. charlie: take a look at this. this is a clip in which they are having dinner. here it is. barefoot.m the man's shoes didn't fit. i smell chicken. did you find chicken? >> i feel unbelievably stupid suddenly. almost like a zombie goldilocks. this is where you should say something. actually -- actually, don't. don't say anything. >> you are more beautiful than i have words for. >> [inaudible]

why don't you set the table? i found placemats and everything in there. charlie: remarkable. very good. they are having dinner. they are also bound, in a sense, connected by faith. she is an atheist, he is a muslim. what's the point? paul: i think it is an issue that has -- i was raised a catholic. charlie: yeah. how's that going? paul: i'm a last catholic, so -- a lapsed catholic, so it's going. and it's a conversation that i have with myself. and i catch myself feeling slightly imperious sometimes with my notions of science. when you're standing by a grave with a loved one in it and you see people of faith, who sort of

-- their belief rises, you know, like a lark above your sort of reason. i just think, who is the clever one here? this whole sequence, this whole second act, which takes place in a squatted apartment, which i call the goldilocks act, it came from an agent. when i was talking about writing it as a homeless love story, the agent will remain nameless, the agent said, "well, you can't make a romance about homeless people. no one wants to see them kiss." and i thought what a repulsive and repugnant thing to say, but let me hear it, and let me maybe so that by putting them in a that by maybe solve putting them in a place where these people look and are living rather more like the sort of people that you think you might

want to see case. -- see kiss. it's amazing that the whole job has been to humanize human beings. it is sort of shocking. charlie: is this a political film? anthony: not at all. i think what's great about the movie is, for me, it finds beauty in all the tragedy. you know, people -- and i've always felt when i see homeless people or people in a desperate situation, man, their life must be so bad, how could you live like that in such a despairing situation for so long? but then when reading the script, things that i was entertained by an turned onto was the idea of finding beauty in the midst of madness. we all have bad days. we all have bad times. we find our way out of that, no matter what our surroundings are. i think it is less or not at all about politics and more so about the love and desire and need of people. charlie: you actually said you

don't like to see films in which you are thrown into a place of despair and darkness. you want to see some -- paul: i want resolution and hope. i do. but i also want a cathartic, redemptive experience. there is a fashion at the moment, the film is a little dark. but how do you have redemption without darkness? you can't redeem somebody from a happy situation. charlie: what about tahir? jennifer: he wants to go home. he doesn't feel able to. there is something he has to accomplish to feel able to do that. hannah in the movie does, too. she needs to learn how to love again and open herself up and to forgive herself, and she is able to love again through tahir. charlie: they find redemption in each other. pauljennifer:

>> the truth is i need the money for my boyfriend. he is sick. he has run out of meds. >> no, i can't wire you money. >> i'm not using. >> you said this before. >> i know how it sounds. i promise you this time it's true. >> why did you lie to me about the train ticket? >> [sobbing] i don't know. my friend -- he needs meds. he is so sick. they cost $370. >> well, if he is that ill, you should take into the hospital. >> we've been. i know you shouldn't believe me, i know that i've given you no reason to -- >> you are lying. you're lying, sweetheart. >> please -- paul: and the simplest version

of the film that i had in my head when i started to write it was there was a man who was walking in the city and he can't get to his family in heaven. he need -- meets a girl who thinks she is a ghost but realizes she has something to live for. if he can get her home to her family, he can let go and go to heaven. of course, it takes the form of a story, that he's homeless. charlie: this is your directorial debut. neither of you being homeless, did you want and -- did you want to and go to spend time at a homeless shelter? paul: after i made the decision that that's what it was going to be about, i went and spent time with the coalition for the homeless. they are an extraordinary group. they are real-life angels on the streets of new york. they deliver food. they provide advocacy. they provide education. they also provide an extraordinary summer camp for the children of homeless

families, to offer them some respite. script, butted my also got me out on the street meeting homeless people -- i was very intrigued -- the last act i wanted to be hannah against bureaucracy. i was really interested in finding out what bureaucracy is in place to stop a needy person getting what they need. if you read the literature, well, there are no homeless people, there are no needy people. if you read what is available to you. but there is absolutely bureaucracy in place, which we play on in the film. haslie: "marble -- marvel been very good to both of you guys, hasn't it? paul: yes, it has. anthony: no question. charlie: the gift that keeps on giving? paul: i don't know about you,

but it's the first time in my life that i know i'm working in a year's time. that is an amazing feeling to have. security. i don't know how you feel. i always consider the job that i'm doing to be my last ever. i'm going to be discovered and down never work again. charlie: people always say that, "i'm going to be discovered. i'll never work again." you don't feel that way, do you? jennifer: i feel like i never know if it's good or not good. if i'm going to find another job that i want to do again. charlie: that's as much as you -- that's as much you wanted to do. did you fire yourself? you thought about playing a role in this and the director said no way? participate int the casting couch. humiliating, really. i wrote some scenes in the film to raise some paltry finance on

my name. two weeks out, i cut the scenes. the financier was like, what? later, it made sense. me we moved on without hampering the narrative. charlie: have you started filming "american pastoral"? jennifer: i just wrapped, actually. charlie: how was it? jennifer: it was great. i had a great time making it. i enjoyed telling the story. i like this story. it was a lovely set. charlie: the editor of "the new york times" was here last night. are was a p of timeeriod -- period of time where he had been times" editor. he said that there was a time where he did nothing but read those novels for a year. he just wanted one subject to get his head around, so he chose

all of those bill of rights -- those philip roth novels. jennifer: one thing i love in those novels is the notion of a narrator who is unreliable and the ways in which we get each other on. at one point, the narrator talks did each other wrong before we meet each other and continue to get each other wrong, even in their presence." that's very much paraphrase. i think that's a large part of what this is about, the ways in which we make decisions about one another. and i think when we do that, it is very easy to put people into their little boxes, their little corners, and i think, you know, exploit each other and all sorts of horrible things that, hopefully, we can do better to eradicate. anthony: i just finished an adaptation of the broadway show

"all the way" for hbo, where i am playing martin luther king, jr., and bryan cranston is playing lyndon b. johnson. that was kind of an amazing -- charlie: bryan was just here. it's about the passing of the voting rights act or something else? anthony: it's about the eight months between the assassination of kennedy and him being elected president and martin luther king, jr., and lyndon b. johnson getting the voting rights act passed. charlie: this was what the play was about. it's going to be terrific. thank you for coming. jennifer: thank you for having us. " opens inshelter theaters november 13. thank you for joining us. see you next time. ♪

>> this is asia edge. kong leads asia higher. hike back and focus. president obama is a manila for the apec summit. in europe, police stage raids in france and belgium. the attack mastermind is named.