♪ emily: he is the owner of the world's very first model s, and ker of elonck l musk's tesla and spacex. he has amassed one of the biggest private space collections in the world, and pondering thedays future of artificial intelligence and self driving cars. joining me today on "studio 1.0," steve jurvetson. steve, thank you for being here.

it is great to have you. steve: thank you. emily: i want to start in 1996. steve: oh, dear. early when you made an investment in hotmail, and you bet on e-mail before it was anything. what did you see? steve: it is usually a combination of things. an entrepreneur getting excited and jumping out of his seat, and an idea unlike anything i have seen before, which is, wow, e-mail wherever you go not tied to a corporate system or an e-mail server. in what became the first example of viral marketing on the internet. want to talk about how you became a guy who can make these kinds of protections and big bets. tell me about where you come from, what kind of kid were you? steve: i don't know if i ever grew up. i was born in arizona to estonian immigrants who came here. i was aspired by my dad growing up.

-- inspired by my dad growing up. i think there is something inspiring about the ability to code machines, unlike other experiments that take time to learn. emily: you graduated from stanford first in your class, you got a masters in electrical engineering, and aba at stanford. steve: i love to learn, and that is what i love about being a venture capitalist, i am always learning. i enrolled into a phd, which i didn't intend to take. it sort of happened. i eventually had to get a job, so i took off. emily: after you got all this schooling, you work for apple, you worked with steve jobs at next, and he tried to work. recruit you at pixar. what was your relationship with him like? who has thise incredible, laserlike focus on who he is speaking with. there were the walks that we would go on. i had hoisted into an agreement

with him that i would study how he does businesses. i was an acolyte, not that i thought i could be like him, but i can understand him. he was a fascinating individual. emily: how did you get that program? steve: i asked him. my business school, set across from the fireplace, and talked for like three hours. he was at next, ira member he was obsessed with apple. next has nothing to do with apple, he is distraught. emily: what kinds of things would he say? steve: he would always come to the conclusion that apple should nextext and bring the technology and operating system back in to apple. i would look at him like he was nuts. what ceo of apple would keep you and bring you back into your job? of course, that's exactly what happened. he was possessed. he had the mass market

appeal of the products that apple has. everyone knows he has fascination with design, but what fascinates me is that at no point do i ever call him stating a strategy. it was more like, this is crap and this is beautiful. more specifically, elon musk and he have a fascination with imperfection. your: tell me about relationship with eli. he went into debt with tesla, writing checks, to make payroll, and the headlines say that you saved him. steve: we first met in 1996, when he first came to california , pitching his first start up. the relationship -- seeing him develop these companies was fascinating. in december of 2008, he saves

tesla single-handedly. he went to that. debt to invest in tesla when no one else would. emily: so when did you come in? steve: the other investors were on the table, so i did my fraction. it's a herd mentality, if everyone else's in, i will be in. we came up with a way to get him out of a hole, so that is why i became an investor in spacex and tesla. emily: it feels like you have a mind meld to him. do you -- does he ever say anything to you that you think is absolutely crazy echo are you on the same planet? tell me about your own interest in space. you launched rockets in your yard, tell me about that. steve: my son has been doing that since the day he turned three. desert,the black hawk there are really big rockets. i have also converted the dfj

hallways with artifacts from the apollo era. emily: but you have not been to space yet. steve: no, i have been weightless a couple of times. will yourn first flight be? steve: probably in 10 years. the association with fear is that it feels like a dangerous thing, but the goal with spacex is to make it as routine as air flight, so to make the rocket reusable, throw it away after each flight, which radically lowers the cost, and when the cost comes down you can fly much more often, gain more experience. rocketa spac spacex exploded in june, and that was a huge blow. have a fixed the problem? steve: they have identified what the problem was and its complex

detail -- a little bulge, frankly in front of a larger tank. emily: so what happened? steve: it failed. but they can push that aside and push a replacement design that won't have that problem. will spacex a publish its goal of getting to mars in the next 15 years? steve: absolutely. i'm picking 20 years to get the colony started. emily: wow. steve: but just sending something to mars and not getting it back, they can do it a lot sooner, in a year or two. have a tesla model s and model x. do you have a preference? steve: i like them both. emily: you have the very first s ever made. steve: yeah, elon and i got the first production model x. emily: how is it performing? how many times has it been serviced? steve: not much. i have yet to replace the

brakes. there is no spark plugs, no muffler, none of the usual stuff i used to get maintenance on, like tires. so what features are you most excited about? steve: i get very excited about the future of driverless cars. for most of us, driving in one of these -- a lightning bolt goes off in your head. think, why doand we let our teenage kids drive? 10 years from now, we will look act and think, wow, we thought that was ok? the weight will come to market is a neighbor or lyft-like uber or-- is an lyft-like service without a driver. in the abstract it is scary, but

in the reality it's not scary at all. emily: when can i buy one. steve: you might be able to ride in one in vegas in two or three years. emily: are you concerned about competition from a company like uber? steve: no and yes. in the future, all vehicles will be electric and autonomous. all companies have to do it or they will go out of business. it is almost by definition. so they should, and you wish them well, and you hope that a whole fleet of different kinds of vehicles will come out, whether it is fans or two-person vehicles, bus like things. no one company can do it all. emily: do you think apple is working on a self driving car? how optimistic are you? steve: by the end of 2022. emily: apples thing is to do what somebody has already done, but do it better. steve: sometimes they do, but sometimes they don't. that apple watch hasn't really grabbed me. emily: so you aren't a fan? steve: no, the battery life, for

me. i have a lot of watches, and i cannot fathom the charging issue. that teslaou think should focus more on lower-priced, more mainstream electric cars? the model three, which is supposed to cost $35,000, but that is the base price. steve: that is a great question. vision.their long-term you either have many billions of dollars to put into equipment to mass produce something about -- something of that scale, or you do it in iterations. you take the model x, if you ,actor in the cost of ownership which are so much lower, your total is not much different from a high-end for cars. -- a high-end for guitarists. -- ford taurus. ♪ are youow concerned

about google? ♪

emily: i know that you are super fascinated with machine learning. what is your vision for how ai changes our lives, let's say five years from now. -- five years from now? steve: what we call it will be the specialties, things that are creepy or magical in their ability to do something somewhat human, like drive a car. let's say, manager schedule, -- manage our schedule, they will creep into engineering analysis and diagnostics, the field of medicine. there will be all these areas where we are recognizing a pattern -- a pattern of human behavior, a pattern of picture, a pattern of the world around us. seeill see things we didn't and pointed out, wow, i can navigate more easily through this traffic. i think that will start to act on it us to what we call ai

fully. concerned --e you how concerned are you about google's ambitions in ai? steve: a little bit, just because there is a bit of a reckless abandon, almost like a technical utopian flair, with -- almost like this is the inevitable trajectory that technology is our future, we will make good pets for ai in the future, things will be good and stuff. the ai i worry about is those that we may not know exist, that are purely digital, living off of fast information feeds and offering -- operating in a way we cannot fathom. so how is your interest

in ai and machine learning playing out in your investment philosophy? steve: i think the way we engineer things is changing. ofm everything we can think as engineering to things that feel more like growing and reiterating a solution very rapidly. emily: what do you mean? steve: imagine much like a newborn baby who can learn anything, you build a box that is exposed to videos -- to that same program could recognize anything on the internet, recognize speech, or be used to find tumors and s inograms -- tumor mammograms. this ai you can apply to different things, and you don't know how it is done. emily: could these computers one -- take over the world back over the world? steve: yeah, but why? emily: because they become smarter than us, like a lot smarter. steve: what they would do is --

-- day we would wake up, and imagine a gap between us and our enjoys hunting that toy mouse. it thinks it is a fierce hunter, but it's in the house. we have much less violence overtime. why would a more intelligent being used childish like kindergarten level -- it's my toy, i want that thing -- as opposed to much more sophisticated make -- sophisticated manipulation? dfj was an investor and there are those, now a $10 billion valuation. do you stand behind their nose? -- theranos? ♪

emily: what do you think about bubble talk right now and valuations? are we at peak unicorn right now? every time you asked me a

question like that, somewhere a fairy dies. i don't know, it is interesting how the private funding world is reaching valuations we have not seen. we focus on early-stage investing and growth stage investing that is way before the unicorn phase. people want to invest at those kinds of prices. in fact, two companies on the board just got offers at this new unicorn phase, new unicorns are being born every week. i think what is interesting is shutting.po may be emily: is it closed? steve: it seems that way, certainly for biotech stocks. emily: i have to ask you about theranos. in theranos,vestor now at a $10 billion valuation.

do you stand behind their nose? would you invest again? steve: we stand behind them and that we are investors and want them to succeed, but we don't have the answers to the questions swirling around, which is can i give you an answer to the questions others have? i can't do that. i remember meeting her, elizabeth holmes, when she was still a stanford student. she started the company with great passion. i remember my partner 10 saying in the first meeting, she is like steve jobs. before she was wearing the black turtlenecks. i did not see what he was referring to, i even wrote it down on a piece of paper. but it was fascinating. she had that mesmerizing deal to revolutionize. there were these special kinds of needles. we were the very first check, we wrote a $500,000 check before anyone else, but she has been so independent and has been going at it on her own. so i don't have the answer to your question.

emily: you guys have such a tough job because you want to inress -- invest breakthrough technology. how do you at the earliest stages separate something possible from something impossible? steve: there are people walking in that door every week, every -- wemetimes, but someone keep hearing about the steve on -- this steve jobs and elon musk said the next generation, but some of them are wrong. i think the best partnerships are when the investor believes in the entrepreneur. when we first invested in tesla, i was convinced that all vehicles would be electric. it was not my idea, it was his mother but i've fully buy it. -- i fully bought it. i have been wrong, and i will be wrong again, but when it is right -- can we talk about the ones that are right? emily: so the world of venture

capital has changed a lot in the last years. alongon horowitz has come , it is the hot new firm. they've got a lot of people in recruiting, marketing. place inyou see dfj's the hierarchy today versus 20 years ago when you started? steve: i try not to compete with any of them. in a healthy economy, you are going to have different firms that do different things, have different strategies. if we are doing our job well, we will not come head-to-head with the same group over and over again, because that might imply we are doing the same thing they are, and why would we do that? i like looking for industry sectors that are not over investor, where frankly no one else competes. the vast majority of investments i have made, there was no competing offer. emily: really echo steve? the question i was going to ask is, how do you get on the good side of every entrepreneur? when were first investing

in space, there was that no one else saying they were in space, discreet, and then they find us. we don't need the same sort of infrastructure to track down the opportunities to compete with everyone else. in fact, i think a venture term is a small team of five to seven people, no more. , whethervery endeavor it is creativity, or decision-making, or a state of ambiguity is needed, if you go bigger than seven, you are less effective stop -- less effective. emily: so what is next for steve jurvetson? to harvest organs for humans by changing the immune system of a cake to be like a human. biologythe field of and information technology -- we will grow technologies, we believe all technologies, we will help things -- build things that feel like brains, much less like computers. build things beyond the

human limit -- human design things which they can understand. if you ask one day, what have something smarter than humans, will weally smarter, -- have something smarter than humans, the answer will have to be yes. literally smarter than humans in every way, like, you have a conversation and gives you better answers than i can. that will inevitably happen. to say that nothing will ever be thatr than a human means evolution suddenly ends right now, and that is obviously not the case. we have wicked smart humanoid like things. , now thatthe question we understand the process of evolution, what can we do today to rapidly involve things that surpass us? emily: so that is what you will be thinking about. steve jurvetson, thank you so

much for joining us. it has been great to have you. i will see you on the moon. ♪

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