tv Whatd You Miss Bloomberg November 20, 2015 4:00pm-5:01pm EST
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scarlet: u.s. stocks posting their best weekly gain since october. european government bond yields falling. joe: the question is, what did you miss? shopping holiday season begins, is more trouble ahead? orwell -- or will americans get out and spend? joe: is there more selling ahead, or is it time to buy nike. the paris attacks one week later, our guests says they could send friends -- france into recession. highs inwe made our the first hour, but it has been to lower, we did manage to end the day with gains. it rounded off the best week for the s&p 500 since october. energy stocks falling 1.1%. consumer discretionary where the best performers.
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joe: big boost today from nike, that was a major mover. we had the news yesterday they were splitting. investors like that. yields.s. two-year continue to creep up above 0.9% for the first time in a while. people start to lock in on that rate hike possibility. chipotle fell to the lowest level since 2014. it was the biggest selloff since 2012. alix: there was another e. coli outbreak linked to the restaurant. it has spread to a total of six states, worst performer in the s&p. already they had a deal with 43 stores already affected. analyst like nicole miller had already cut down 5% of earnings estimates. that does not count what happened today. joe: for a company with a huge reputation of having
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, this start --od strikes with a core brand idea. scarlet: it is a little bit like what happened with yum. it took them a long time to recover. alix: absolutely. how do you overcome that? for liberal people have been talking about how narrow the stock market rally has been this year. let's show you. this is how for star performers are driving the gains. facebook, amazon, netflix and fanta., or you companies have raised 10% as a group. -- these have raised 10% as a group. let's stretch this out to one year, you can still see the big divergence. the s&p 500 still up.
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that onple want to winners, they don't seem to want to bet on anything else. i want to go into my terminal and talk more about short-term interest rate, specifically u.s. rates. rate -- two year and german ones. the german fell to a record low. year above 0.91, the first time since 2010 they are above these levels. we just keep talking about it, divergence. that is literally what it looks like. a look atnt to take something truly horrible, that is what has happened to the bulk and based commodities. that white line you see is copper. that is at the lowest level since 2009. the green is in sync, lowest level since 2003 -- the green
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line is nickel, the red line is zinc. what was striking to me is -- why? why is nickel below the 2008-2009 low? thisreading more about being a demand story. are we not seeing the kind of demand we need to see? that means we need supply cuts to balance the market. this has proven the catastrophe that we have seen in some of these metals. joe: i am disappointed you did not include iron ore. you can see that they spell out, " zinc." alix: it did not make my point. scarlet: you can see these on twitter. the chairman us is chief officer of cumberland advisors, david kotok. aboutt: we were talking
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the performance of facebook, amazon, and google versus the s&p 500, is that divergence a sign of a fragile stock market? david going you told the story of two -- david: you told the story of two stock markets. we see large companies that are selling text, or distribute in tech into services, and they are growing worldwide. we see industrial companies going in the tank. two worlds. joe: one of the gainers with the consumer discretionary but after last week's retail earnings it is an ugly situation. what do you make a retail right now and the string to the consumer? david: we have been in the consumer discretionary
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overweight position. i am worried about it. youas been a great run, compare the sector for the last five years against other sectors, it is terrific. how long does this go on? this is now a question for us. the etf forfor consumer discretionary and put up a five-year look, it is terrific. is an evaluation call? or is it a fundamental shift? things, worry about two we have had the benefit of low interest rate. we have had a slow recovery and we have had the benefit of -- anticipated in a stock prices of low, low energy costs. the consumers saved it, not that it. at some point in time that will shift. are we getting close to the ships -- shifts? the risk profile is changing. joe: i have heard the argument
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made that one case of the consumer, it looks like wages might be going up. -- it has been a long time since consumers could take home equity loans out. do you think we could see further tailwinds from the consumer? david: that is why it is a tough call. we are still overweight consumer discretionary, today has been great, the sector etf is worrisome to me after a long, five-year outperforming run. scarlet: that is worrisome to you. what you do like and have life is natural gas. i was talking about the metals, natural gas at its lowest level since 2002. and you don't want to buy? david: largest inventory, everyone hates natural gas. companies are selling for the value of their reserves in the ground, not on earnings. everybody dislikes the sector.
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we are 24 months away or less from exporting liquefied natural gas. the terminal turnaround is under construction. the infrastructure is being developed. this is a growth industry for several decades for event -- for the united states. entry is cheap, but no one wants it. alix: can they rally without crude oil underpinning it? david: that is a tough question. the old world answer was always know. -- no. this time it could be different. natural gas is clean, the volumes will rise. ,ifferent story with oil gasoline, as opposed to natural gas. joe: what is the best way to play it? david: we only use etf's, the only etf weirs is ecg. we own it.
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scarlet: it has been a rough ride. at what point do you have to say, i have to close this position? david: we just entered the position, we are only a few pennies the low-cost. is your redt flashing warning? david: one dollar. scarlet: look at the appalachian basin. that is not out of the possibility. david: there is a time when volumes rise. lng means items rise. -- means volumes rise. is a trade-off underway? we took a position, we think it is an entry point. in the next 15 years we will find out. : we will have you back in 15 years. scarlet: you might be stuck there for a long time. david: we took a position and we might be there for 15 years.
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joe: i want to talk about a hated commodity, a different story -- gold. a lot of people obviously loved it, there has been a few bad years for it. what do you think? david: we took a position in the gold stocks. scarlet: you did? david: they are under the cost of production. the russians are buying all of the gold produced and putting it in a central bank. chinese are buying gold. when you look at americans -- they are buying old coins. gold has killed like natural gas. wendy want to buy something? you want to win no one wants it. when the chart is ugly. when the history is ugly. and when the forecast is ugly. natural gas and gold qualified. some of the other commodities qualify. that is the entry time. alix: do you think gold is a safe haven?
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we have been writing about -- our credit rate strategist has been writing about the definition of a safe heaven -- haven has changed. is gold a safe haven? david: i don't know anymore. the world is upside down and backwards. there are large numbers of people who think gold is a safe haven. they take a little gold covered position, i think that is -- has a place today in a portfolio when it is a beaten-down asset class. scarlet: you mentioned other commodities that could be good investment -- which ones? david: natural gas, gold, industrial metals are more and more attractive as the price goes down. -- say to yourself, how long how low do they have to go before the mines close, the
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when it and islamic extremist group stormed a radisson hotel. a group with links to al qaeda claimed response ability. u.s. and french -- claimed responsibility. forces assisted. a move expands police powers to carry out arrest and searches and allows authorities to prevent the movement of people and vehicles at times and places. meanwhile, french police have conducted nearly 800 raids since last week's attacks. the interior ministry says last night alone, police conducted raids.te, -- g vladimir putin and president obama agree they can hurt islamic state by bombing the terror groups oil. president obama has reportedly refused vladimir putin's offer.
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they are both targeting tankers. that is where the militants group is much their funding. the cdc says the e. coli outbreak at chipotle restaurants has spread to three additional states. at least 45 people in six states have now been infected. all the two cases are links to chipotle. arecompany says they conducting a deep cleaning of the restaurants, replacing ingredients, and changing food preparation procedures. most of the cases are in washington state and organ. -- oregon. you can get more on bloomberg.com. from the first word desk, i'm mark crumpton. alix: we're back with david kotok, the chairman and chief investment officer at cumberland advisors. you wrote a note talking about the economic implications for france. david: huge.
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you just got confirmation from mark on a change in business activity, regulation, supervision, security. france is -- has gone into a whole different operation. what does that mean for business , for tourism, transit, what does it mean for the open borders that were going to be expanded? everything has reserved -- reversed. the country, i think in 2016 faces a recession. piling on is germany. the vw scandal. largest the two economies in the eurozone with negative activity. it is not good. alix: we have a chart that illustrates that nicely. for most of us here, france's economy has been on the mend if you look at the real conditions index. certainly real-time index i should say. germany has been turning south.
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now, if france turns south and germany extends this recent downtrend, does that mean the eurozone cannot avoid recession? david: they might get one whether they want to or not. you see mario draghi worried. that is why the negative rates will go more negative. you may take more negative and instruments, but that does not get you inflation, it does not get you growth. it might get you raising -- rising asset prices. there is a long amount of time asset price to get to economic recovery. we see that in the u.s.. europe is worrisome in terms of growth, not assets. you take zero and price an asset, and you get infinity. what do you get with a negative interest rate?
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asset prices rise, but economic recovery is going to be a struggle in europe. you don't really think the ecb has much ability to affect the real economy? david: central banks have some -- but at zero interest rates for prolonged periods, the firepower is on. the only tool they had is more qe, lower rates, now we are into negative rates, those are going lower. what do you think about insurance companies that have to earn to fund long-term liabilities? how do they get the earnings? we are in a very, very strange environment. the world is upside down. core inflation in the eurozone has held up pretty well. today mario draghi seemed very
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urgent to fix inflation. possible this recession in france, the application for the eurozone need for inflation? he needs inflation to justify higher interest rates to translate this process back into normalcy. he feels the urgency for good reason. this kind of activity in france suppresses inflation. it suppresses economic activity. the difficulty for the european union and the eurozone particularly, my view, is how they will get out. imagine tapering back to zero. imagine what happens when the ecb goes down, switzerland goes down, sweden goes down, denmark goes down, more economic -- more negative rate. -- rates. joe: if we get the situation as you are describing, but asset prices favoring the wealthy people who have financial assets
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continue to do well, do you see further divisions happening in the political system? david: sure. it destabilizes things. we use the gini coefficient. the real focus is income distribution. if and him -- income this tradition widens, you have less middle. the others suffer, we have that in the u.s. right now. scarlet: thank you. david kotok. is a coming up, what slumping shipping index say about the health of the global economy? we will have the answer, next. ♪
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alix: i'm alix steel, the baltic dry index stands at the lowest level ever. some consider it a bellwether for the world economy. it measures how much it costs to ship commodities. others say the index is completely misleading. joe: this is one of the most controversial debates. people get passionate about it. i'll we thought it was a discredited economic thing. m and g investments today came out and said it is important. they tweeted a link to an old article. they put up this chart that i found interesting. it shows the baltic dry index versus a quarter on quarter change in world trade volumes. they say it lines up.
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bit here, buttle if you believe it is an indicator, maybe you would expect the world trade growth to slow down. scarlet: with the price measure that comes up before official data, it tends to be one month late. it could be a leading indicator for 10 year treasury yields. a drop in the baltic dry index tends to indicate a move higher in treasuries. you can see right there. it fell in early 2011, that led to a reaction a few months later. if you fast for to this year, there is a relationship, but it is not clear whether treasury yields are predicting movements in the baltic dry index. -- is it big debate is hogwash? does this have to do with supply and demand? are there too many vessels in the world to do that? part of the story starts with
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china and the stimulus in 2008 the cost the problem. -- caused the problem. joe: there is a good chart. you can see the yellow lines after the economic crisis, china iron ore is in the yellow. soared after china built up investments. that theyought was would build ships, but then china slowed down. scarlet: it is exactly what we saw with the vessel orders over the last two years. if you look at that versus the baltic dry index, this is what it will tell you -- the baltic dry index falls off around 2008. at the same time, orders had peaked. then what happens -- what do you wind up doing?
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that move up in the baltic dry index of january 2009, shippers said it cost a lot to ship an order, china is pumping money into the system, maybe everything will be ok, they go ahead with orders. that is why you get this record fleet size. that is the yellow line. we are getting the investment payback now. because ofare low the slowdown. part of that had to do with the fact that companies were buying their own ships. they did not want to pay the extra cost to rent them. that cause prices to fall. joe: what is the answer? alix: can people tweet us? i think it is a vessel. scarlet: i am with you. joe: unanimous. scarlet: great friday conversation.
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scarlet: i'm scarlet fu. "what'd you miss?" let's get to mark crumpton. passenger on a united airlines fight with governor chris christie aboard was removed before take off this morning. the gop presidential hopeful was with a member of his security detail on the san francisco to boston flight when the passenger was her moved. in a statement, the christie campaign says the governor never interacted with the passenger, nor did the passenger pose a verbal or physical threat to governor christie. a deadly siege at a west african hotel has left at least 27 dead.
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the united nations official tells the associated press that a least two of the attackers are among those killed, though others may have escaped. armed gunmen stormed a radisson hotel in mali today, tossing grenades and taking hospital -- hostages. died fromrson has last week's attacks in paris. the death toll now stands at 130, according to france's prime minister. he made the announcement in a speech to the senate today which extended france's state of emergency by another three months. hundreds of others were wounded during friday's assaults, many severe. on the campaign trail, hillary clinton is solidifying her lead in the race for the democratic presidential nomination. according to the latest poll, mrs. clinton leads for months senator bernie sanders 55% to 30%. in september's poll, clinton led sanders 33% to 24%.
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that poll included vice president biden, who decided not to run. after 30 years in prison, convicted spy jonathan pollard is a free man. early today pollard left a prison in north carolina where he had been serving a life sentence for spying for israel. he was granted parole last summer. the edmund -- obama administration refused to grant request to live in israel. more on these and other breaking stories 24 hours a day. from the bloomberg first word desk, i am mark crumpton. quick recap markets closed on this friday. gains across the board. for the week, u.s. stocks posting their best weekly advance of the year. we should know that nike was the star performer today, leading a rally in consumer shares on the announcement yesterday that it is buying back shares and coming
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in with results better than anticipated. chipotle, its lowest level since 2014. there was an equal outbreak in the restaurants, a total of six states now, wes performer -- worst performer in the s&p. it is affecting 43 restaurants. analysts had to rewrite what it would do for their same-store sales and now it hits again. >> it is pretty grim and given a selling point is the quality of their ingredients and they know where it comes from. scarlet: it does not fit with the narrative, does it? we know how media stocks had their come to jesus moment last quarter when subscriber growth numbers heightened. as we approach the holiday season we are seeing worry that the retail industry is facing similar secular changes. and analyst joins us. would you say that's a fair comparison, we're seeing a fundamental shift in retail that centers on what we spend and
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goes beyond the fact that we now buy more things online and we do in stores? guest:we don't y more online than we do in stores. scarlet: or that the trend is. guest: what we're seeing in retail is part of a multi-decade' shift away from physical places and towards online. that has unpredictable consequences. sometimes it moves quicker than other times, sometimes retail slows as a whole and e-commerce keeps going. there is a steady shift away from physical retail towards e-commerce. joe: what about the shift away from buying things to buying services in the economy? how does that change the equation? guest: it is sort of neutral. retail is a service. for total growth, the e-commerce shift around services might not be such a big deal. with regards to stocks
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themselves, it's hard to play macro translate. this is a trend that has been underway for probably 20 years at this point. it's hard to place stuff like this very quickly into single name stocks. it's a bigger picture strategic thing that needs to be thought about by investors. alix: are we seeing a structural shift on two prongs, where it's more e-commerce and we are buying different things? will this change the retail landscape over the next decade? george: e-commerce has been able to grow steadily for nearly 20 years. that is really hard to do, especially when you're up to 7.4%. it is more the fact that e-commerce is getting so big, it's taking up more of that incremental share of consumer spending on traditional stores, places like department stores. joe: sometimes i think people are surprised when they find out e-commerce is only 7% of total retail spending.
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could we see double-digit growth for several more years going forward as it becomes more normal? george: absolutely. it's been accelerating over the past three years. you saw the year-over-year growth in e-commerce sales at 12% in 2012 and now it's up to 15.2% year over year. there does not appear -- there does not appear to be anything that can slow it down and it does not mean consumer spending has to grow that has to grow slower overall. it's a combination of the pie changing shape as the economy expands and also the larger slice of the pie for e-commerce versus traditional retailers. scarlet: joe mentioned how we're spending more on experience and less on clothes and other stuff. do services have less or more pricing power than companies that make things? george: it's going to depend on the specific service. one of the things important to remember about services, making it more relevant is the input
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specifically. goods producers will have more exposures to commodities. if you're a service provider, think about a nail salon versus buying actual nail polish at the store. if you are a nail salon, you are passing on the cost of goods and it is a much smaller percentage of how much of the cost of the total service is. when you make the shift from much more goods to much more services, your increasing exposure to changes in labor prices. alix: when you take a look at what consumer discretionary has done this year, what part of it is amazon? you can look at the spy. amazon added 113% to return of the spy. definitelyre's specific strengths in retail.
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then you had some completely awful reports, reporting terrible numbers out of nowhere. that is what he speaks to, this idea of secular macro trends versus the specific company affects. there are traditional companies that will do really well in the next 2, 3, 5 years. it's not just about the shift to e-commerce. you have a chart, core retail versus quote, core retail. what are you looking at with this chart? we took monthly u.s. census retail trade data and said, what are the categories here where people are not going to buy stuff online? you can buy a car online. joe: you can't buy gasoline online. goode: that is probably a thing, given how explosive it is. we took out the categories we thought were fairly safe from
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traditional retail. we were left with about 32% of total retail sales. we said, this is a basket vulnerable to e-commerce. basket, that is what the traditional retailers are fighting over, and that's getting smaller. iraq 80 basis points year-over-year. in the most recent quarter -- that's really unusual outside of a recession. retailers are effectively in a recessionary environment. there can be strong performance within retail. on a totally different question, we just had a roundtable discussion about the baltic dry index. economic indicator that's useful, or the worst in the world? george: it's pretty bad. i got into a fight on twitter with some folks. well, it's useful for looking at specific shipping companies in different agricultural commodities.
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in terms of the aggregate macroeconomics state of health in the world, there are much better things you can be looking at. scarlet: such as? george: i have a strong believe that the u.s. is the center of gravity in the world, so i want to look at what final demand in the united states is doing. i want to look at consumers and not just how manufacturers and goods are doing, but the broad u.s. economy. that is what i really care about. alix: good to see you, george. due to recent paris attacks, yours open-door policy is now over? we will discuss that likelihood next. ♪
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scarlet: i'm scarlet fu. "what'd you miss?" a look at some of the business stories in the news. tesla retiring -- recalling its entire fleet of model s sedan. the global recall is company's largest ever and involves 90,000 cars. tesla's model x suv is not affected. alix: the epa says more volkswagen vehicles may be carrying a missions cheating software. regulators say vw and audi officials told him the same software issues extend to three liter diesel engines from models manufactured in 2009 through 2016. the epa says it will investigate. scarlet: starwood said hackers were able to see debit and credit card information of some people who died or shop that 54 of its hotels -- dined or shopped at 54 of its hotels.
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starwood says the malware has been removed. and that is your bloomberg business flash. in more general news, another suicide bomber went through greece according to the first trust eq to. greece one of the main gateways for refugees and migrants. joining us now from london, is this the beginning of the end of the treaty? >> it's under very serious threats. he was already under threat from the refugee crisis and now you have this bigger security risks thrown into the mix. we are seeing fences and borders going up across europe. france has said it will keep its borders closed as long as is necessary to secure its borders. we even see countries such as sweden installing border checks. we hearing talk of this idea of
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a mini schengen zone. a smallerinstalling border inside europe to secure their own borders because they don't really have trust in the external border of europe. that is what it comes down to, and the eu strongly enforce its external border? if they can't find a solution to that, it's hard to see everyone being willing to keep their borders open in the long turn. alix: is that necessarily a bad thing? bloomberg view editors wrote in if ited piece today, came to that, it would be serious loss but it would not be a disaster, insisting on schengen at any cost would result in an even fiercer backlash against the eu and all its work. what do you think? >> that is certainly something that has to be evaluated. travel. is border free it does not affect free movement in general. people would still be able to
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move between countries freely, they would face greater security and border checks. the economic cost in terms of having those borders on people is not that huge great it should not impact the free movement of goods and the customs union and the movement of the economies trading between each other. i don't think it would be that huge and economic blow but politically this is really a huge political project for the eu, on par with the eurozone. when you think about the blow people talked about when dismantling the eurozone, that has the same residence with dismantling schengen. it would be a big acceptance or failure but at some point you have to consider if it's not working, if they don't have a proper external policy, they don't have a proper immigration and asylum policy, then keeping it open may cause a backlash. i don't think we are quite there yet. joe: even before the recent attack, we saw some countries in eastern europe start to put up fences. closing itsance borders after the attack.
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what can countries do unilaterally and what has to be agreed to between countries when it comes to this question? >> under the schengen and eu treaties, there are provisions for emergency situations where borders and checks can be installed. in the long term this has to be dealt with on the eu or schengen level. ultimately it is tied into their requirements at the eu, and if they don't fulfill those requirements, at some point people question what the point is of being a member of the schengen or the eu more generally. it's all trying to be dealt on the deu level. -- eu level. scarlet: we would be remiss not to ask, what does less open borders mean for europe's labor economy? can a polish plumber still work in germany? >> i think they can. it's about borders, not movement of people. it's about security checks and provisions, not about stopping people being able to move. in theory, people should be able to move to work and it should
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of these parties. we had seen them grow up over the past few years due to thession, due to fears over eurozone crisis. this is really giving them a renewed boost and we are seeing them topping the polls in a number of countries, even country such as sweden, we have the sweden democrats pulling first in the high 20% right we see far right parties leading in austria, the netherlands, and eastern european countries. they are really seeing a renewed boost. that in itself, even if they're not in government, it is weighing heavily on some of the government and their policy decisions. we are seeing results in some of the policies and putting up borders. joe: on the chart right now we see the sweden democrats in blue. what is the ideology of the sweden democrats? raoul: they're about the anti-immigration. that has beening
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very underrepresented in sweden over the past decade or two. it's very much a liberal country. coming in with a very hard anti-immigration line, quite anti-establishment line, and sometimes anti-european line. they are trying to prey on these fears. sweden has been one of the countries taking in the most refugees and the most asylum-seekers and that has led to a fear in sweden over this growing dilution of their population. germany, where angela merkel was the champion of allowing refugees to come through, she has seen her popularity ratings come down as well, all the way down to 49% from a high of 75% in april 2015. she has shifted her position a bit. how much more will she need to shift to cling onto approval ratings above 45%? raoul: she's definitely scrambling and shifting her position. this is a drop in popularity that merkel has never seen before. she's been riding high for a long time. originally she had this open border policy welcoming
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everyone. that had some broad public support. that soured very quickly and now she's very much about enforcing the external border, deporting people who don't have the right to be in germany, making sure they're only taking refugees from syria and not economic migrants, and she will have to soften or hard in her policy even further to make sure she does not lose public support. her one saving grace may be at the moment there isn't really any alternative to her and her party in terms of government joe: great -- government. as an party started off anti-eurozone party but now they seem to have gather steam more on the refugee angle. does that speak to the fact that this issue more than the euro zone crisis is really resonating and working for some of these more populist parties? raoul: very much so. that transition is a fascinating one. they started out as an anti-euro party led by a bunch of professors and they gathered momentum in the early days of
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the euro crisis. over the past year or so they have transitioned to a more popular anti-immigration rhetoric. they did not pick up any support in the early part of the year because of the greek crisis, when many people thought they would flourish. with the migrant crisis they are seeing rising to record highs above 10% in some polls. they are really taking advantage of this, and this is something that has been missing in the german debate is always been hesitation about the party on the right of the spectrum, and now with the younger generation coming through, i think there's less hesitation about that and they are really capitalizing on that more open debate and on the refugee crisis. alix: we've also seen this move to the u.k. week, november 17, 16, 70 2% of britain's say the country should not admit more refugees. in september it was only 51%. can you speak about the rise there as well? the british change is in
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thicket of what we're seeing around europe. -- there's the start a lot of sympathy for these refugees fleeing syria, the middle east. although there was always some skepticism in the u.k., there was a willingness to take in some refugees. trend ineen a similar germany. now over 50% of people are concerned or against taking in more refugees. scarlet: regional elections are coming up and marine le pen could do very well. does she need to even say anything more at this point to cement her support? been: i think she's playing it very cautiously. she let it sink in, let people remember what she had said before the paris attacks, what she had warned about about open borders, and now we see her coming up. she had a very strong article in "time" magazine, talking about the frenche core of
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republic but phrasing it in a way that is protectionist and protecting liberty by defending and having hard borders. i think it will be very interesting to see how that progresses. it's very likely that she will capitalize. she's already doing well and they are expected to win two regions in the election. alix: such a pleasure to talk to you. thank you so much. ♪
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to joell due respect" biden, our gift to you is this one hour show. ♪ [laughter] >> have bp in a butter fudge day, sport pants -- sports fans. first, the database. sounds like a terrible sci-fi movie on deep netflix. it's even scarier. donald trump's seeming approval of the idea that every single muslim living in the united states be registered on a national database.
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