♪ >> from our studios in new york city, this is "charlie rose." is a former first lady, former senator from new york, and former united states senate -- secretary of state. hillary clinton is now running for president. the front runner sat down with me in lexington d.c.. she talked about her plans to fight isis and remove bashar al-assad. the problem of climate change, china, russia, and the role of the united states in a rapidly changing world. from a balcony overlooking the

white house, she told me how she would like to fix the dysfunction in washington, and what being president is about. power inthe seat of america, the white house. there seems to be gridlock. can hillary clinton make a difference? barack obama thought he could. and he didn't. hillary clinton: well -- charlie: it takes two to tango. hillary clinton: he got a lot done. charlie: how can he do it? hillary clinton: get at it every day. charlie: it's not enough. hillary clinton: it starts with that, it starts with nurturing relationships. lady, when irst was a senator or secretary of state, i worked across the aisle all the time. sometimes there was only one thing that i could find to work with somebody on, because

everybody -- everything else we were at odds. charlie: so you say to the new speaker of the house, hillary clinton is someone you can feel it, i'm prepared to reach out to you. hillary clinton: right, and i will do anything to find common ground, but i will also stand my ground. there are some things that are not good for the country. i will not give in on those. but there is a lot of room to find common ground. charlie: buton: you know a lot of people think the biggest problem for americans washington. and that is part reflected in the politics we see. hillary clinton: that's true. but look at the way our founders set it up. they set up the separation of powers, and they made it really difficult to get things done. years, it is really hard. we are in one of these. iods where we have a minority in the other party that does not believe in compromise are reaching consensus here it is. charlie: that's not the way to do it. hillary clinton: part of what

you have to do is make it clear to everyone else who is in the party that there is room for negotiation. do not even believe in the legislative process, because they think they arrived with all the answers, and there's nothing they can learn -- maybe there is some ground. onorked with tom delay reforming the adoption system. even though we were politically opposite, he cared a lot about foster kids. them, that, i cared about so we found common ground. that is just a 24/7 effort. i will put whatever it takes into doing it. charlie: waiting for the plaintiff come down from new york, a nice lady said to me, where are you going? i said, i'm going to talk to hillary clinton. she said, ask for this one question. what can i do to make a difference? that is what she said. you must a finding that as you go. i would think my running for president, you have done this before -- as tough as it is an sleepless, you get a sense to

touch base with the with and reds of this country -- width an country and how they aspired for a better life. hillary clinton: they're so intimate and personal about the encounters you have when you are running for office. you have only 30 or 60 seconds, people look into your eyes and say, i need help. my son is a drug addict, and taking care of his daughter. we have to have more help. are young men i meet who says, and taking care of my mother quitalzheimer's, i can't my job but i can't afford a caregiver, so i take her to work. i hear these usually intimate stories. it gives not only a real texture to what i thinking about and what i'm proposing, but it makes it all real. there are real people doing the best they can out there. what can she do? maybe there is somebody she can help.

maybe there's a child she can tutor. project to is a raise funds to send kids to college. maybe there's something she can do to contribute to the life that will be better for somebody else. i say in my speeches, and i know it sounds a little corny, you don't expect a presidential candidate to say we need more lovingkindness in america, but i'm saying it. we have to stop demonizing each other. we have to stop with the anger, and the terrible sense of alienation and division that is stocking our country. we need to be kinder to one another. we need to put ourselves in each other's shoes and walk in them, if you can. being president is running the executive branch, doing foreign policy, working with congress, but it is also being a catalyst for people to feel that they can be their best selves, and that we need them. we are in this together. absolutely. charlie: this was the first

major interview secretary clinton has granted the terror attacks in paris here and we began with that tragedy, and her strategy to defeat isis. thank you for doing this. it is great to see you. hillary clinton: great to see you, charlie. charlie: this is the first interview since paris. what is new? what did paris change for all of us? hillary clinton: i think it that is conversation taking place, not only in our country and europe, but in many places across the world, about what are the opportunities and the dangers in this very complex time we are living in. specifically, with respect to isis, i think it really has accelerated a discussion about how the world is going to deal with not only isis -- how to deny a territory -- but also

with a whole network of radical which has taken advantage of the arc of instability from north africa to south asia. finally, how are we going to protect ourselves, our friends, our partners, in a way in keeping with our openness, our values. i think it is really -- it has pushed all these discussions that you have in the situation room, and lots of places. now it is pushed into the open, and it is a matter of personal and political debate. ♪

with respect to the new urgency, what should the united states do, and what you would you recommend we do? i gave a speech about this on the consul of foreign relations, i think it is important we look at it from a broader perspective. number one, we have to deny them territory with a multi national effort, and the united states must lead the effort. charlie: what does that mean? hillary clinton: it means we have to do the heavy lifting, to get people to make contributions that they have to make, whether to fly airaft strikes against isis territory to go after leadership and economic infrastructure, or putting together the troops on

the ground, how we get more equipment and support to the kurds who have been bearing the brunt of the fighting. how we do everything we can to get the iraqis not only to end up their army, but to begin to work with sunni tribal leaders. charlie: what incentive would you offer to sunni leaders to get them to engage on the ground, so that with the addition of american airstrikes, you might wage an effective campaign in iraq and syria? hillary clinton: nothing beats what was tried last time, which is cash. [laughter] let's not turn our nose up at it. yougeneral petraeus, recently talked with. and was very straightforward and said, look, we basically paid eiks, and now we continue to do that across the border and syria, to pull

together a fighting force. it worked. it worked in part because of repulsion against the predecessor, al qaeda in iraq, the treatment of everybody at their hands. that also works because they were promised that they would have the autonomy and authority to make a lot of decisions within iraq, on their own behalf. and hisately, maliki views towards sectarianism slowly but surely undermined all of that. iks you've got the sunni she and fighters on the sidelines, some of them, making common cause with isis. anrlie: which raises interesting question, did we lose influence in the baghdad government? would it have made a difference in the behavior so the sunni would not be so turned off by baghdad? hillary clinton: i certainly

thought we should keep troops there. i advocated for that. the real problem was maliki. he would not give us a status of forces agreement, that would provide protections for american troops, that we have to expect anywhere in the world. despite our best efforts, despite trying to negotiate and bargain with him, other members of his government, even the parliament, we were not able to reach the agreement. the prior administration, the bush administration, had set a date for us to withdraw. the absence of agreement, we had to withdraw. that is what he wanted. he made all kinds of promises to the administration. which he did not result. charlie: was the absence of american troops -- did it help lead to the strengthening of isis? hillary clinton: i wouldn't go that far. i think it was the collapse of the internal agreements. our understanding was we had helped them build up a force

respect her needs, have a place in the iraqi army, that there would be a national guard created that would in effect protect the sunnis and give them a sense of autonomy, enabling them to protect themselves. with theirthe kurds, ongoing arguments over oil distribution and autonomy. so what maliki did -- he was the driving force -- he was purging the army of sunni officers, began to take a hard line against the kurds and their desire for more autonomy, and so i placed the blame, such as it can be placed, at maliki's feet. charlie: what should be a limit of our involvement? hillary clinton: we have to look at it from several perspectives. number one, if we are going to lead a multinational coalition, we are going to still have to

take the lead in the air. that is our highest and best use. even with france picking up airstrikes, we are still carrying out the best majority of them. we also need to get special forces that the president has arena asd into the soon as possible, because they will be able to tell us what more is needed. in particular, how do we have better targeting on the ground? we want to go after isis leadership, economic infrastructure -- how do we really know what we are targeting? charlie: the general petraeus should be, that we embedding at the battalion level and not just special forces. hillary clinton: i couldn't tell whether he was meaning the iraqi army, if we ever get it stood up again, that is something we could look at. we had over 3000 american troops in iraq trying to do that, working to essentially undo the damage that maliki did to the it totrying to return

what it was. to train, mission is assists, and enable. if down the road it appears we do get them up and willing to take the site to -- fight to in iraq, thens there will be a role for americans to perhaps be a part of advising those army units. we are a long way from that. don'that i'm told, we even yet have confidence that we could put them back into the fight. at the same time, let's not forget what we were talking about earlier. we need to be building up a sunni force. that will have to operate on a parallel track to the army. charlie: but, many people are saying, we have been talking about this for a while -- how do we get the sunnis involved. there is a new urgency and new emergency now. tell me how serious the threat of isis is, and what level do we

decide, we will do anything we have to do to stop them. hillary clinton: i think we have to have as our objectives, their defeat. what is it you have to do to defeat them? i think you have to hide them in their desk fight them in the air, fight them on the ground and in cyberspace. it seems to me, there are people both currently serving and retired, like general petraeus, who know a lot of the players. we should be utilizing anyone who has that kind of personal contact. it is all relationship based. we need people to go over there, look into the eyes of the tribal leaders who say, you betrayed us and we say, no we didn't. when you have promises of continuing to pay sunni troops, continuing to have an integrated army -- we had promises. they were systematically broken. let's do it again right. used it against al qaeda in iraq, because you saw the damage they were doing to your way of life, to your people, the

oppressive and violent approach they took. now you are facing an even more barbaric enemy, which has more money and now controls territory. we need to get back in the game, and we need to help you do that. charlie: do we need to make coalition with russia to do this? first of all, i think we need to build a coalition of europeans and arab states. charlie: don't we have that now? and don't we see market is a patient by the british in terms of proposals to their parliament, and the french are clearly energized. hillary clinton: the french are energized. the brits are waiting for the weather they can be. we have a number of european allies who are flying. the arabs have pulled back and we need to get them reengaged. with respect to russia, i am not yet sure what exactly putin's objectives are. we know he has been vomiting a lot of the opposition to a

ssad. we have to operate on two tracks at one time on a lot of what we are doing. theyit comes to russia, have to understand that we are going to go forward with our multinational, multi-pronged approach. i believe a no-fly zone is important to try to provide safe havens on the ground. taking back the syrian turkish border will require turkish help. it will require the russians to be at least respectful of our efforts. we need to be engaged. we are engaged on a military to military level. we conflicted the airspace we are both in, so we are not making mistakes. but what they did, whether intentionally or unintentionally, invading space -- r forc charlie: they did it on purpose? hillary clinton: i don't know,

but they were on notice to stay that. you can't make mistakes. but they got so close that a mistake was possible, or they just did not care. charlie: why did they do that? what is vladimir putin trying to say to the world? hillary clinton: i think this probably was not something that came down from the kremlin. they want to go after those somes threatening assad, of whom are near the turkish border. but by invading the airspace -- this is not the first time they came close to doing this. thehowed a disregard for perspective of others, most particularly the turks, that is troubling. i think they have been pushed back, and i think that we will be able to have a more realistic conversation with them, which i would urge. charlie: but isn't vladimir putin's interest clear, he wants to be relevant, he wants to be a player and be part of the

decision-making, and he wants to say to the world, russia is important. and he has accomplished that. hillary clinton: he has certainly stake a claim, whether he has accomplished it or not is not clear. there is what also has to happen. -- here is what also has to happen. we need to get over the choice going after bashar al-assad or going after isis. charlie: everyone talks about that, how do you do both? hillary clinton: you do both by making it clear in bringing the russians in. they have paid a big price because of the bomb in the jet. they have lost people to isis. i think you say, look, it is not acquiescenceelp or in what you are going to do going after isis. that means you are going to have to pull back from the area while we go after their leadership and economic infrastructure. but if you want to be part of that, we would welcome you.

you have a dog in this hunt now, because you are worrying what is happening to caucuses, isis spreading the ideology. tothe same time, we have fight the ideology. there has to be more willingness on the part of russia and iran, to take a hard look at how we prioritize. right now, we are not going to see a military defeat of assad. it's not going to happen. it might have been possible if users of the, it will not happen now. you will continue to see russia from the air,, iran from the ground, where running soldiers are dying on behalf of assad. you will see them continuing to hold the territory they haven't pushed back against opposition. part of what we have to do is say, you have to help us get to a political and diplomatic and you have to either get out of the way or come on board with respect to isis.

and we have to be very clear about that. it should be a full throated effort. charlie: and you have to thatnse -- convince assad time is limited. hillary clinton: right. and there will be a transition. and the iranians have an invested interest. ,f they in their own minds they quit bombing the people helping us fight isis, go ahead and put barrier, charlie: protect them. some people like to ask you this question. the question becomes, if there is a no-fly zone, which you are and the russians invade the no-fly zone, with president clinton say, shoot it down? that would not: happen. we are going to put up a no-fly zone where the russians are clearly cap informed. i want them at the table.

they don't have to participate in it am a but i want them to understand that there has to be areas on the ground, safe areas on the ground. if we can stop hundreds of thousands of more syrians leaving syria, because they get to a place where they can get medical aid, that is good for russia. why does russia want this incredible burden that is going to be coming up through europe, and yes, maybe they are happy to see europe suffering -- but in the end, it makes no sense for them or all of us. i think you have to have that conversation. it is never easy with the russians, and particularly hard putin.adimir if you say, as i think you should and the conversation needs to get to an operational level, and then at the same time a conversation with putin about what options truly are, i think you can say to him, we are going to put up a no-fly zone. you will know very well where it is because it is going to be the

same people 2-d conflict airspace, the same americans you are dealing with. but we have to figure out how to keep syrians in syria, and frankly, it is good for the fight against isis if we have populations that can be a locus. charlie: no-fly zone is one place where th you and the president disagree. are there others where there is a difference? we saw what he said at the council of foreign relations and the interview he did in turkey. you seem to be responding to what the simulation -- similarly responding to what the siation is. where else do you differ? hillary clinton: i think the president has said, perhaps we should have taken additional steps earlier. thatie: back to the point you and general patriots were recommending in 2011? hillary clinton: yes. now the important issue is what do we do now. i'm arguing for perhaps a

greater, quicker intensification of the work i think needs to be done. i agree with the president's point that we are not putting american combat troops back into syria or iraq, we are not going to do that. charlie: under no circumstances would you not do that? this point,ton: at i cannot conceive of any circumstances where i would agree to do that. i think the best way to defeat isis is as i have said -- from the air, which we lead, on the ground which we empower and train and equip, and in where, don't forget, they are a formidable adversary online. we don't know yet how many special forces might be needed. how many trainers and surveillance, and enablers might be needed. that in terms of thousands of combat troops, like on the republican side by recommending, i think that should be a nonstarter. be a nonstarter, both

because i don't think it is the smartest way to go after isis -- i think it gives them a new recruitment tool, if we get back in the fight. whereas if we are equipping and supporting the kurds, then we can do a lot to make it work. charlie: let me take you to another time. libya. you were a strong, if not the proponent of the u.s. and others going to protect benghazi at a time that it faced almost certain attack by qaddafi. was that a mistake when you look at what has happened since? hillary clinton: first of all, it is important to remember that the libyans themselves helped -- held two successful free and fair elections. the libyan people rose to the occasion. they voted for moderate.

and then, unfortunately, there was a lot going on in the region that was not necessarily in the control of anybody. it had a big impact on libya. charlie: i have two questions about that. first question, is there some lesson we need to learn, maybe equitable -- maybe applicable to syria, you do not want chaos or circumstance in libya, because what you have in libya now is increasing force of isis? hillary clinton: in one part of libya. let me address that. it's a totally or question. qaddafi had american blood on his hands. qaddafi was a threat to the broader region. arab friendsand saw him as that, and as you say, he was promising to track down his own people and killed them like cockroaches. demise, was, with his there was a coalition that rose up. they did hold elections.

prepared to begin forming a government, and there was a lot of pressure coming at them from extremists in all directions. likeof the old attitudes, the split between tripoli and i believe that right now there is an ongoing effort by the u.n. and others to try to form a unity government. to try to get people once again to get back to working together.the problem is , we see advances by isis -- they are not the only terrorist troup, but isis claims that they have now really taken control of qaddafi's hometown. one of the ways we need to approach this is continue the discussions about national unity, but as a precondition say, we need to join together right now before you get a stronghold, and work to

eliminate isis. going toething that is require a lot of cooperation. there are armed groups that are fighting for power within libya, that are not in anyway identified with or allied with isis. they need to form even a loose confederation to try to push prices literally into the sea, before they get a stronghold. there are other bad actors, don't get me wrong. who have taken a population -- occupation. charlie: we go in with great intentions, we help participate in the arab spring, it was their revolt, not ours. and we end up with where it is not successful, democracy would does not emerge, and you end up in some cases with failed states or states on the verge of becoming failed. it is just not a place for america to be. hillary clinton: i think it is

dangerous to make sweeping generalizations. look at how valiantly the tunisians are struggling. charlie: they are the big exception. hillary clinton: they are the big exception, because they are a relatively small country, and they have worked really hard to get everybody under a tent, so to speak, and get them organized. libya has pockets of functioning government, but they are not united. difficult toll be unite them, because there have been historical rivalries between them. but we are talking about four years. i know, we did not create democracy over not. did not.linton: we nobody that i know has. not to say there are not dangerous. if we could turn the clock back, if there had been away -- and we tried, to convince the libyans to take more help from europeans

that they had pre-existing relationships with, or even others that might have come to support them, the scandinavians, help them do more. they were so proud and so resistant to having security forces on their territory. there were even resistant to having foreigners come and help them figure out how better to run the oil industry. they had a lot of really smart people who had been ex-pats for decades. they came home, and they wanted to do it themselves. if there had been a way that we could better partner with them, supported them, maybe it would have made a difference. prospect long-term that you have to be looking at. charlie: speak to this. we are looking at a world that is changing rapidly. china sunergy become the biggest economy in the world. whatever their ambitions are. the middle east, which is close to exploding in some cases. some would suggest you have russians involved. how do we make our way in a new world order, and what is our

role to do that? hillary clinton: i think our role is to lead. the absence of american leadership is not somebody else's leadership. charlie: ok, but some argue there has been a vacuum him of that america has not been leading. hillary clinton: well then we should get to that. [laughter] if that is the perception, we need to rid the perception. charlie: there is a perception we were not prepared to leave. a vacuum was created. hillary clinton: i think it is a very complex set of circumstances. it is important to look short-term, medium-term, long-term. i remember in some of their arguments i had over mubarak, there was a lot of excitement about him falling. i was one of the skeptics. what was going to replace him? yes, he was a heavy-handed authoritarian. but what was the alternative?

i remember saying, this might look great in 25 years, the between now and then, a lot of trouble for the egyptians, that region, and us. you have to constantly be balancing, what is the best decision today, how do you think about what comes next? what are the consequences you are trying to promote or prevent, and what are the long-term challenges? it sounds easy to say. it is very difficult to do. when i became secretary of state, osama bin laden was arrived and plotting against us -- a life and plotting against us. ron was in a fast track to a nuclear weapon. we had hundreds of thousands of american troops in the battlefields of iraq and afghanistan, and our alliances were incredibly frayed. it is important to remember in big challenges were seemingly as difficult as the ones we're talking about now. economiccompounded by

problems. hillary clinton: compounded by a recession that could have become a great depression. we worked our way out of that. i don't think president obama gets the credit he deserves from literally saving the economy. bin laden is dead, al qaeda is on life-support. it is still kicking, we have to keep our eyes on it. we cannot just focus on isis. we have to be aware of their continuing maneuvering. we did reach an agreement to put iranians and a nuclear weapon. speake: but that did not to a ringing behavior. i am suggesting iranian behavior is going to be an issue for the next president. hillary clinton: absolutely. igave a big speech about what would do as president, and to deal with enforcing the agreement, because there are a

lot of important details and the iranians have to know from the beginning that they will pay a price, that there will be consequences for any misbehavior or breaches, and we have to now turn our attention to dealing with their other bad behaviors. exporting terrorism, destabilizing other regimes. there is a bucket of problems we have to deal with. charlie: how do we deal with them? hillary clinton: i would rather deal with those with the nuclear -- this is a big deal. with the nuclear program, literally under lead so to speak, now it is not so important that we stay as focused. we are not spending all our time and effort dealing with the nuclear program, which they really got under the fast track when bush was president. now, we had to look at all the other bad behavior, and have the same kind of patient, strategic planning that went into the

agreement. i started putting together the coalition to impose sanctions within the first month of being in the secretary of state office. it takes time. i had to convince the russians and the chinese, and the southern europeans to give up oil and gas from iran. this is a long struggle. but it was the policy that was day by day, that reached results. now we have to say, what is it do?ave to clearly we need to keep forces in the persian gulf. we have to do a better job dealing with golf partners who are very shortsighted, and failing to cooperate with one another to deal with threats. charlie: iran is the biggest enemy there is. split inhe sunni shia the region. that is why they want to get rid of assad, supported by the readings. hillary clinton: we get all of that, but the good news out of

the iran agreement, is so far as we know, they are not pursuing their own nuclear weapons right now. that was a very real threat. they understood the agreement was better than they thought it would be. too can turn their attention to the behavior. our fear was we would see a wicked race for proliferation in the gulf. ♪

charlie: let me ask you about trade. we have the vote coming up in the congress. trade is an important aspect. you were very strongly in favor of the trade agreement. hillary clinton: i was in favor the high standings of it. we are 5% of the world's population. if we are going to grow, we have to sell to the other 95 percent. i understand that. here are two problems. same criteria for judging trade agreements for years. i voted for some, and i did not vote for others. charlie: you are really in favor of this one. i said clinton: what from the very beginning is, it has to produce more good paying

jobs for americans, and raise american wages. it has to be in furtherance of our national security. none of use out -- all the details until it was actually produced a few months ago. did not meet, it those standards. and so i said, i'm against it. i'm not against all trade. but i am against certain provisions of this, including the failure to integrate currency manipulation into the enforceable body of the agreement. there's another point i want to quickly make. which is, yet republicans are always for every trade agreement. trade, if it is going to be successful for the american worker, the american business, has to be more than just special deals for giant multinational corporations who have some linkage to america. the republicans have blocked every effort, raised the minimum wage, better training,

apprenticeship programs, make education more affordable. they have blocked every effort to make sure american workers were as good. as possible to compete and win in the global economy. on me, the trade agreement merit is not one i can support, and the failure to make the other side of the equation so more- fair, americans can get the skills they need to compete, makes it a decision i'm not ready to take. charlie: would you encourage democratic members of congress to vote against? hillary clinton: i have stated my position. if anybody wants to talk to me, they are welcome to call me. i have stated my position and i will let the congress work. charlie: you have announced a significant idea of the infrastructure. why has it taken this country so long to deal with infrastructure? what's the problem? hillary clinton: the problem is that the republicans don't want to pay for anything. i was was in the senate,

on the committee responsible for writing the highway transportation bills. it was hard, we had a lot of back and forth. but we got it done. there has not been a bill that has actually come out for years now. the congress is in the middle of arguing about whether or not they can get a highway bill. but they don't want anybody to pay anything for it. they don't want to use the user fees, they don't want any kind of seed that could be construed bea tax -- fee that could construed as a tax. at some point, we are crumbling. every independent assessment says the same thing. we had a failing grade, or at the most, a d minus. charlie: and putting citizens at risk. hillary clinton: and costing us money. people pay a lot to ask axle than wheels, and damage from deteriorating roads. -- we have aidges

lot of bridges, if you had a choice you would not cross. we don't have a single airport in the top 20 airports in the world. the closest we get is cincinnati at 30. you know in new york, we have water means, and sewer means, and gas lines, some of them are going up. anrlie: did we miss opportunity in the first four years of the obama administration to do more? hillary clinton: we did as much as the congress would let the administration do. the recovery act had build america bonds, money going into all kinds of construction, we could have done a lot more. charlie: this campaign is about middle-class economic future. hillary clinton: right. charlie: you recommend cutting middle-class taxes? hillary clinton: well, not raising them certainly. the favor of giving specific tax credits and brakes so middle-class families can meet their obligations.

for example, more help on child care, more help on caregiving like taking care of an elderly relative, making sure we keep tax credits for education. in effect, those are cutting taxes, but not across-the-board cut. they are tied to certain activities or services that middle-class people need. charlie: but do you also urged raising taxes, income taxes on wealthy individuals? charlie: on you and me hillary clinton: -- hillary clinton: on you and me? yes. [laughter] charlie: and i am willing. hillary clinton: the system is truly stacked for those on the top. and it is something that brief so much resentment and grievance on the part of small business, on the part of hard-working people. the wealthy pay too little, and middle-class people take too

much. we have to get a better balance. we do need revenues. i just want to start with the people actually can contribute more, and make the tax system fairer in the process. charlie: what about corporate tax? hillary clinton: we have to take it that look at it. we had a very high rate right now, but the effective rate hardly ever reaches that. charlie: over 35%. at the same time, the average is 80% or 20%. hillary clinton: and some get away with nothing. i don't want to stifle american entrepreneurialism, i don't want to stifle american business. but i want to change the incentives. that is why when i rolled out the economic plan, i want strong growth, fair growth, and long-term growth. the long-term might be the parts -- most important piece. i will tell you a quick story. there was a survey where the ceos of companies were asked a question. if you knew an investment

you would make today would pay off down the road by experimentation or worker training, but it would not a penny off the share price, would you do it? and they said, we can't do it. i called up someone we both know to say, seriously? absolutely. makes me sick to say, was the response, but we can't. we would be putting a big target on our chest from the activist shareholders. we must change the incentives. we need more patient capital and investments at home. charlie: how about payroll tax? hillary clinton: i don't think it is that big a deal. it,ident obama suspended and nobody even notice. charlie: wouldn't that put money in the pockets right away for the middle class? hillary clinton: we did, but it is not something people really

valued. charlie: politically or economically? hillary clinton: apparently both from the research i have seen. charlie: speaking of corporations, many of them moved to ireland to reduce tax rates. they say, meaning they will be be able to have more money to spend to develop new drugs. they say it's in the interest of the public. hillary clinton: i never know what to make of these kinds of comments. personally, i was deeply distressed by the pfizer decision. i know for instance, that drug companies spend more money on advertising than they do on research in our country. when they say, we will be able to spend more money on research, i would love to know the numbers. i find that hard to buy. there's a certain gamesmanship associated with it, that i find really regrettable.

if we can beat the system, and ireland has a big welcome sign, we can go down as low as we can -- the rest of europe is annoyed. i don't think inversions should be legal. i know the justice department and treasury department have looked at those weird --. charlie: the president said it is unpatriotic. hillary clinton: they are, if you think about it. pfizer employed fewer people, but it has always been an american flagship company. gamehem to say, is just a -- if you listen to it, how many executives are actually going to move to dublin? they are going to move virtually. the button you press on your computer, and say this is where intellectual property lives, in a castle outside dublin. they don't have that many left. i'm sure you have a global reach. -- they have a global reach.

but it is, it is a kick in the teeth. this country has done more to inspire this kind of innovation than anyplace in the world. charlie: you have a lot of companies, like apple, a lot of money overseas -- and they say, do something, bring amnesty, and we bring the money home. hillary clinton: we have to look at all of that. let me tell you, we did repeat treatment i was in the senate under george w. bush. they said the same thing to us. i know i had a parade of people really needying, we to do this. when we get the money back, we are going to do all of this. and what did they do? they bought back shares, increase the dividends, and put more money into ceo pay and bonus. george w. bush is on record as saying he would never have supported that, because they all lied to us. if we are going to do a repatriation, and has to be rock solid and very clear about where the money goes and what it is

used for. we have to look at the entire corporate had code. i don't want to preside over an exit us of american companies here in i want people coming here to invest. i want people building the next generation of clean energy, technology, you name it. i want to be a good president to business, but i also want be a good president for everybody in america, not just ceos and activist shareholders. charlie: have you suffered from the fact that they say you are too close to wall street? has that hurt your image in your judgment? corporateor of regulations as she should be, says elizabeth warren. hillary clinton: all i know is that it was in 2007 i called outlaw street on the use of out walls -- called street on the use of securities and call them out on the hedge fund loopholes. i have been very outspoken on this, and i have stood for a lot

andegulation on big banks the financial services sector. i also represented new york. i represented everyone from the dairy farmers to the fisherman. and help people, rebuild after 9/11? yes, i did. charlie: and you save money. hillary clinton: yes. but that has nothing to do with my position. anybody who thinks i could be influenced does not know me. charlie: what about the reports of foundations and the money from the foundation? hillary clinton: it is ludicrous. is, i saw a lot of people as secretary of state, and i worked really hard to increase exports from american businesses. i saw a lot of business people and union leaders. i saw as many people as i could fit in the data needed something from their government.

call me fromuld fedex and say, the chinese government is taking away our permits. we had been in china for decades. or corning, a company i knew well in my time in the senate. they are trying to put a tariff on us that is going to drive us out of business. i worked really hard to get more and thatamericans, meant representing big business and small business, and everybody in between. charlie: do we need to regulate wall street more? hillary clinton: we do. i probably have the most comprehensive plan. it looks that shadow banking, it thes at all of the parts of financial markets that influence 2008, but arein not big banks. many say i have the best plan. banks, thec of the senator from ohio, says i have the best plan.

charlie: why do you want to be president? you have had a remarkable life. hillary clinton: i'm not doing it to move back in, although it is a wonderful place. ? -- why are you doing it? is it about history, that being the first woman? hillary clinton: no, that would be a next her part of it. for me, i really love this country, and i think it would be a watershed election, where we will either get the economy working for everybody, or we will see increasing inequality and unfairness in a way we have not seen since the 1920's. we are either going to figure out how to live together despite differences, show respect for people, and forced human rights, civil rights, gay rights, women's rights, or we are going to really have the balance shift dramatically against the kind of democracy i believe and that works best for america.

and we are either going to lead around the world, or take a backseat and handed price. there is a lot at stake in this election. the republicans are certainly sparingly on because of what they say -- spurring me on, because of what they say, and their values that are negative and mean-spirited in a lot of ways. i believe we have to wage and win an election about the future, and the kind of country we want to have for my grandchild. charlie: how is she doing? hillary clinton: she's great. we had thanksgiving and it was marvelous. charlie: thank you for coming. ♪ ♪

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