deadline called a joy. one of the years most reaching -- enriching, entertaining films.

>> you are in a room, there is a gun on the table. the only other person in the -- only one of you can prevail. gun, you pick up the enjoy? i would pick up the gun. >> never speak, on my behalf,

about my business again. is david russell. >> enjoy mine gone no is responsible for 50% of the story. charlie: it is inspired by brave women? yes. >> and the man who could be strong enough to be behind a strong woman. and love her that becomes kind

of a godmother. she is forgiving and patient. she is tough. best divorced couple. charlie: it is also about family. family is very important. robert feels like the godfather in our picture. he inspires everyone on the set. collaborator.o a he is new to our team. robert worth for -- worked with

score sisi scorsese so much. do you see this often? you see it a lot. a lot of directors, for leaning fellini, the list of directors goes on and on. before i nerd directors have that understanding. that seems to be a good thing. charlie: in your words, what is it? robert: well -- charlie: what is that's idea among directors? robert: that they feel comfortable working with people that they have worked with before, they know how they think, how they act, they know

certain patterns, they know certain parts. if i was in dave's situation, i would be excited. i would say, "well, i have so-and-so, so i can have him do this." you can see them in a way that you have never seen before. i think he is great at that. charlie: it is great that you and marty are in this. robert: yes, we have had a great relationship with each other. charlie: you are new at this. >> yes, this is a huge privilege, especially because i can sit at such a great table. i am saying that david has created a universe that is unique and it is surprising and it is funny and it is heartbreaking. it is life itself.

he is sensitive enough to capture all of these contradictions and put them all together in his films and make them work in a seamless way. that is something that you don't see very often. we have a handful of people who are able to do that. charlie: what is the story here? bradley: it is really what david said, it is a story of female empowerment, not hiding your dreams and cashing them away for 17 years. it is about overcoming obstacles, even family ones, and it is about doing what needs to be done and fulfilling that potential. charlie: and this is about discovery for her as well? yes, i have watched jennifer crow up, ever since we saw her in "silver lining playbook." "hunger games" had not come out

yet. i watched her have to deal with an enormous amount of attenion. i have had to watch her by her own house and unpack her own boxes. takestrue to yourself, it a certain power, and she started doing this at the age of 14. so to me, this movie is about jennifer as well. charlie: and this narrative is about her as well? self invention as well? david: it is about maturity and power. what is success? it looks a cake on the outside. what is on the inside? charlie: it is a struggle? david: yes, and i ask this question as a filmmaker. i have to go to my collaborators to say, this is worthy of your time. said, to jennifer and she "i will do it if you will do

it." are a child playing in the snow and making creations in your room, that is a particular innocent joy. when you get married, that is a euphoric joy. and robert is there with a disastrous wedding toast. [laughter] yes, and i have heard some doozies. that it is aay bear is a, but he is right. what is going to happen when you marry a latino singer who wants to be tom jomnenes? is he going to bring home the ?acon and what is joy at that moment of your life? how do you find inspiration

again? how do you find a mature joy? we met the real father who had sued her, that's what happens in family commerce. she forgave him. charlie: where does bradley fit in in all of this? david: i described this picture as it like the odyssey. she begins in robert's world. she grew up in her father's island.n long it is snowy and a metal garage and she is seeing his pioneering vision ending. it is detracting. this man becomes her dream for a moment, and then he teaches her to speak, i wanted jennifer to speak spanish, i wanted her to sing. that is exciting for me as a filmmaker. and then you see the romance that preceded it. by the time she gets to him, it

is the emerald city. i loved making a small cable station in lancaster, pennsylvania. of 1950, they treated it with great sincerity and vision. they took a chance with her. thelie: she comes in and first impression that you take is wrong. an give her a shot on qvc or equivalent of qvc. what do you think? think about it, it was kind of a home run. it was like the miracle month. he took the time to actually watch her properly demonstrate it for him. this is a guy who had a chance and you can tell that he doesn't look like these other people in the room. he is a little bit disheveled, you know, he comes from detroit. but like you and you, he took a chance with me.

he like you and like you, took the test of everyone and he he opened the door, he cracked it open for her, and she barreled through it. she never looked back. charlie: in these days, do you prepare a lot? robert: well, with david -- [laughter] robert: he does direction in such a way that it is all distilled through him. i would say to david, to me, he writes to the camera. so he will throw us lines and things like that. and this family, this dynamic, it is so complex, like every family. it just has to be distilled through him, and he directs it in a way that he wants it in a direction that it should go. so we follow him.

and, it's like our "rashamon," if you asked rudyh, the guy i played, what he thought, he would say, "whatever," but you have to make a choice. charlie: what do you think the father would say? robert: i think he would be happy, while i think the father of joy would be very happy. great. why david is so he will steer us in the direction that he wanted to go david: let me say something -- that he wants it to go. david: let me say something about him. he created a movie and he has become a man since he made this. he became a man, like the man that my father was. he put bread on the table. he is not fulling around. it ain't a joke. foolinging around -- around.

it ain't a joke. this guy comes on and he is meticulous, meticulous. he teaches every body to be meticulous. there was one particular day -- charlie: you're talking about the actor now. david: robert de niro was a very smart businessman and away, and going back 30 or more years, in real estate and in unexpected neighborhoods, and exciting restaurants and hotels, and involving his family, which is a balancing act. "the godfather," you have to watch people relate and control relationships. i just want to talk about meticulous relationships. one day on the set, he comes on and this is when jennifer is just the haunted by neighbor -- haunted by nightmares and dreams. and he said, "where are you? what happened to you? what happened to your magic? wake up."

in that scene where he is about to give her costs are to help her go to sleep, i said, "robert, do you think he would do something else? what do you think, do you think this is the kind of guy who would use a chain?" vinny, our amazing prop master, said it will take about 10 minutes to go and get one in the truck. so he said, let's just go. i hear a voice that says, "roll camera, action." and then i hear, "no, i want the chain. please get the chain." i just felt everything all the .et just go to total respect he wanted the time, the 10 minutes, to get a little chain. charlie: it's about details.

david: i only make movies about specific people that i can love and see in their contradictions. that is a specific thing. charlie: so why do you think you are that way? robert: well -- [laughter] david: come on, robert. robert: i don't waste time on things that i know. i just prepare and i prepare for better or for worse and i turn out totally better than i anticipated. that happens. i just don't want to be afraid to move forward in something, you've just got to say, "i am going to go do it, and i don't know whether it is right or wrong."

that to me is more important because it has spontaneity, like david does, and a liveness, if there is such a word, and it is essential to such a movie working and living and breathing, and the way he does it. so, i am sort of answering the question. bradley: the first time i worked with bob was this, and it is a marriage of the actual and the cerebral.

we are doing a scene where i come in the office and he walks over and he sits at the desk and he is going to have to look at a paper and his glasses are at the desk and this prop guy just told the desk -- just pulled the glasses and put them on the desk. and bob went over to the glasses and then he picked them up and he put them down where he was have put them and i thought to myself, "whoa." [laughter] bradley: these are the things that makes it real. charlie: can you teach this or is this something that -- bradley: i don't know. i don't know. robert: if you go on a set and you open a door, you have to do certain things, or if you pick up a piece of fishing or he and do something, it is very important to know how to do that. that little task, you have to know. that is because it is a something you have been doing for a long time. you got to make sure. what does also happen is that if you are doing a scene over and over again, you are making sure that you do something away that you should. if someone is opening a door, you can tell that they have never opened that door before, and sometimes you don't want to, but you have to be able to have all of that stuff down. because a person, those little

details -- people notice. they might not even know why it doesn't register. the thing that bothers me about sets is that the doors are very hollow and the floors are hollow and everything. charlie: it doesn't feel real? robert: it doesn't feel real. david: that's why we shot on location. robert: yeah, we shot on a relocation. ♪ charlie: this is when you

returned to live with your daughter and her mother.

here it is. >> hi. what are you doing here? >> i am returning him to you. i don't want him anymore. >> what? >> he is damaged. he has no place else to go. he has been living in my house for two years. >> oh my god, i am so sorry. >> tony is living in basement. >> that is not the proper way of being divorced. >> ok. i don't know where i am going to put you. >> dad, don't go in there. mom is in there. >> i don't want him anymore. >> what is so much better about being with sharon? >> we went to the metropolitan museum of art. >> what did you like? >> i will tell you what i liked. >> i like the ancient roman statues, i like the roman armor, i like the trust can -- the --uscan jewelry, i liked >> you like the coffee, and you

like getting a croissant. you liked a boring, dusty coffee. >> captain jack was so great. that's right, captain jack, the flying jackass. >> you creature from the black lagoon! [laughter] charlie: this is great. david: i mean, that is the music. i love the music of language. i write the script many times beforehand. robert memorizes it, even if we change it. so i love the music of family and talking and the music of language. having said that the people who , where we are from is what makes us who we are. the people we love, where we are from, that is who we are. and staying true to that has made me a better filmmaker that i can be. you must be rooted in who you love, who you have struggled with. she is rooted in this house with these people. and these people become the impediments, like a fairytale.

who challenge you but also enable you to become who you are meant to be. you have to challenge and rise and fight them when you need to. without him, the whole endeavor doesn't happen. charlie: just like isabella rosselini. let's watch another clip. >> what about you? >> i invented the dog collar and i want to get it patented. but i don't think it ever will. i was a valedictorian in high school. i went to a college in boston, but i came here because the parents are getting divorced, and i came to help my mom and help my dad with business stuff as an accountant. >> maybe your dreams are on hold right now? no? >> that is a nice way of putting it.

>> this song is going to be in the town musical. we should sing it together. i think you have the time to spend the evening with me. ♪ [laughter] charlie: was there much direction in that scene? director? edgar: yes, always. yes, david is always there with you. always. and that's great. we have been discussing this. in a way, it releases you from so many ideas and self-inflicted pressure that you can have in your head when you have that director right there with you. charlie: does it release you to take risks or does it release youtube -- --release you to edgar: actors can tend to be in

our heads. exactly. but it is a privilege to have a director who knows exactly what your character is thinking. and he is so sensitive that he even knows what you are thinking about your character right there. because he is very -- i mean, directors are so sharp. david is one of the most sensitive persons i have ever met. david: this man is very known for playing very intense characters like carlos. charlie: the jackal? david: yes. david: he is a very beautiful guy, you have that mug that can look so angry. and what was it like for you to sing with jennifer in the snow? edgar: it was beautiful. i had never tapped into that -- that emotional territory before. it was beautiful, because when the snow started to come down -- i didn't know that the snow was going to come down. actually, we were supposed to, i

remember, we were supposed to shoot another song. and then he said, no, we shoot and we sing this one, "something stupid." david: "something stupid." edgar: and i knew that song, but jennifer didn't know that song. there was a line that they had already written when we were coming on stage, and she asked me, "what if we don't know the words?" and i said, "don't worry, you will." and that actually applied to the reality of the situation, because she didn't know the words. and she was even more vulnerable and more open and it was beautiful. and we were dancing and singing for a number of takes and it was very emotional for all of us and even for people on the crew. it was beautiful. i remember when we finished that seen in the hallway, jennifer was very sick that day, so she was very vulnerable. and i remember that when we finished, you were in the stairs, there was a little pocket where david hid while we were shooting, and i said, "thank you for letting me fall

in love that way." in the cinema. i think that really changes you, you know? charlie: what's the soap opera? david: as a storyteller, what is the psyche of a 25-year-old girl who becomes a 45-year-old woman? let's tell the story. she has a metal garage and i said, you are where you come from. her mother is a timid person who has taken refuge in her bedroom and watches soap operas. and takes inspiration from strong women on soap operas. we've got some icons of soaps, susan lucci, laura wright, to me, that was a great opportunity to make a statement. in the first half of the movie, jennifer's character is trapped in a movie and she is trapped -- trapped in a world of her parents, and she can't get out. we go through 1979, 1989, 1999, each era. each struggling is like a soap opera and it is beautiful.

charlie: but what becomes the dynamic of the relationship than? -- then? david: well, for the first half of the movie, she is talking to all of the men across their desks, she is in there office, their garage, she is in his space and his space and his space, and in the second half of the movie, they are in her space. she has become the authority. the mountain wanted to help her, he did not intend to blocker. if we were sitting at a kitchen

table, charlie, which we always sat at little kitchen tables in my family, they help you through everything you could. and his girlfriend -- this girlfriend helped to finance this. if you make anything worth anything, they try to make it for you. it is relentless in business. charlie: are you also telling the story a family? telling the story of the strong woman? the values of business and the corruption of business or -- david: not the corruption of business. charlie: well, there's some of that here. david: well, to me, if you're talking about ethics, i think businesses, it's always been a no holds barred kind of thing. it's happened to my father. if you want to make anything, you have a middleman. all of a sudden, the middle man has a lot of power, if they're printing your book or making your plastic molds. i met a young woman who was making frozen organic foods. suddenly the person who cold-packs that becomes her item. that's his business. to me, i'm making a comment on how fierce you must be to succeed this business. it ain't easy. and i don't look down on it for

anybody. and family, to me, it's about being forgiving and loving through everything. and that's what i found inspiring about robert when he made "the godfather" and that's what i find inspiring about joy, as a human being. we sat with the real joy and her father, right in front of us. charlie: but are you attracted to this idea of, you know, creating a business? david: of course. i love people who create -- i love people who create something. and they have a thing. i mean, they have a universe that is supporting people's lives. they're all working it together. it's a system. that's what a movie set is. i love systems like that. a movie set to me is a big family. we're all in an endeavor together. a navy seal team is a family. they're doing an endeavor together. i love that. i love that. people relying upon each other for a larger mission. charlie: you see clear after your divorce, clearer after your divorce -- you see her clearer after your divorce? edgar: yeah. and i think that there's some

amends, i think, after they got divorced, because he needs to mature. at the beginning of the film, tony is her third child. charlie: right. edgar: you know, and as long as he stayed in that safety nest, basically, he was never going to see himself. actually, he sees himself clearer after the divorce. i've never been married, so i've never gone through a divorce, but i cannot imagine how hard and difficult the sense of failure of seeing so many plans and so many dreams be shattered. i mean, we discussed this during the divorce scene. actually, it was a very emotional scene. it's only a shot in the film but it was very strong, because i've never gone through that. and i imagined that going through that sense of loss is like as if somebody who you love very much dies. i guess that it can become compared to that, losing someone.

and all the dreams and the plans and expectations surrounding it so i think he gains perspective of his own life and then decides to -- charlie: you don't have to be married for that to happen, i don't think. edgar: exactly. i've been through heartbreak, but it's like, in a divorce, there's something that you sign. and there's a commitment that you -- a marriage, a commitment that you promised things in front of people. so, of course, there's a social context to it as well. the implications are larger. i imagine that the feeling of a failure must be even more, right? we discuss this a lot. charlie: a couple things. i want to get isabella here. this is isabella testing joy's business instincts. roll tape. >> you are in a room. and there is a gun on the table. and the only other person in the room is an adversary in commerce. only one of you can prevail. yes.

you have protected your business and the money. do you pick up the gun, joy? >> that's a very strange question. >> there is nothing strange about this question at all. this is money. do you pick up the gun? >> i pick up the gun. >> good. i'm going to remember that you said that. when i speak to my lawyer. [laughter] charlie: what was your reaction to that scene? david: she scared me. [laughter] charlie: she'd pick up the gun. david: isabella is scary! charlie: that's what i'm saying. isabella would pick up the gun. ha ha! so what happens when joy, this woman who was valedictorian of her class, she's had a failed

marriage. and she comes up with the idea of this mop. what happens when she meets neil? from his standpoint? from neil's standpoint? charlie: yes, your standpoint. bradley: um. charlie: because do you see her as simply another opportunity, or is there something that she has that he finds more than simply one more person wanting the sale of a product? bradley: there's something in that scene, the way that david shoots it, when they're in that sort of white demo lab, when she's doing the mop and the camera sort of pans up and you see him looking at her, starting to sort of -- and it sort of feels like -- he's constantly observing. you know, he's a salesman, constantly looking for ways to better his company. and i think that -- it's that moment, sort of watching her demonstrate, watching the mop. you see a bit of a lightbulb go up. you say, can you make 50,000 of these by next week? he's already off and running.

he is a to create the matrix by which she can live in. charlie: and she says, instantly, yes, not knowing. bradley: and he says, okay, i'm going to take you behind the curtain. then he starts talking to her about other people who have been successful and what they've had to do, as he's orchestrating. charlie: and the first demonstration is not successful. bradley: correct. charlie: that's when there's a confrontation. roll tape. >> i'm in a meeting with our lawyers. >> what do you think you're doing? >> go home, joy. and watch the numbers roll in on television. 50,000 mops, borrowing and owing every dollar, including your home. >> it could have been handled better. i'll -- >> i don't want todd or anyone else to try it. it should be me! >> we don't have regular people. we have celebrities, spokes models that do the selling. i told you this. >> who showed you the mop? who sold it to you?

who taught you how to use it, and who convinced you it was great, after you thought it was worthless? >> excuse me. can you give us a second? come with me. charlie: did you have a -- how did you prepare for this? bradley: you know, i've been thinking about it, as we've been talking, what it's like to work with david. i just had this image of, you know, he tells you the time to show up. and you just sit there and there's this place. he's got a map, the tools. he knows the tools he wanted you to bring. you're going to excavate with him. from the minute we started talking about it, i was doing this play in new york, and he had this idea, that he was going to do it with jen and bob and he wanted me to play this role. then it begins. you really do, i feel -- i feel like i'm preparing with him. charlie: but do you write with him in mind? david: yes. charlie: you knew each of these characters were who you wanted? david: i knew who i wanted.

i had never worked yet with a latino actor. that was new. he had worked in "hands of stone." but i go to brady backstage on "elephant man." we talk about, what should this guy look like? i like that he and jennifer are quietly powerful prior to -- more than in previous movies where they've been very loud. that's different for both of us, more mature. charlie: why do you act now? i mean, you know, you've done everything, won everything. you have all kinds of businesses or restaurant businesses, real estate. why do you do it? robert: well, i kind of -- i like to do it. it's sort of -- it clarifies my life, when i'm working on something. i'd rather be in new york but if i go away, it just clarifies. i have a focus. when i'm not doing something, then i'm focused on things but there's more stuff going on in my life, this, that. it can be in a way, a certain part of it is just distractions.

so when i, as i say, focus on something, it gives me a clarity in that period of time. charlie: it demands a plan and structure. robert: yes, and structure. i need that. i like that. charlie: do you think you're better today than you were 10 years ago? robert: i don't know. i mean, some things i'm better at, i suppose. ah, that's a tricky question. in some ways, i am. in others, i'm not sure. i mean, i'm struggling with something right now. i don't have it and i'm not going to be happy until i have the direction that i'm going in. so, i don't know. i'm just like in limbo with this thing. charlie: and how will you -- robert: by working through it, working through it, and just getting a clarity of the direction that i have to go in this particular project. the writer, the director, and so on.

david: robert, how do you find working with jennifer, when you started with her in "silver linings?" robert: well, jennifer, what was great, when she came in and did that -- the scene where she does all the technical, it was terrific. i mean, i read it. but then she did it. she did it so well. and that's hard, you know, just to do it and have the authority. i saw how terrific she was. and so that -- and then this movie, especially, she had so much to do. and sometimes she'd get annoyed at him, because she would jump in with a line and she just worked on it. she would say, let me just finish this! sometimes i would get annoyed too. let me just finish what we've worked on! then you can throw us over. charlie: let's get what we prepared first. robert: yeah. i mean, not that what he's giving is not good. it is good.

but we want to do this. but what was the end of the question? charlie: jennifer -- robert: she's great, yes. she's great. just terrific. she has a magic about her. charlie: magic. an undefinable magic? robert: yeah. charlie: how did you find her? bradley: from day one, easy, you know. i just felt like -- charlie: the first time you've acted with her. bradley: yes. kind of the first time i talked to her on the phone. i remember talking to her on the phone. had she shot the first "hunger games?" i was like, this person is so alive and open and free and out of her head. when she showed up that first day, it was like, whoa! unbelievable. david: how would you define the whoa? what was the whoa? bradley: um, instinctual. i have always said this. i mean, she reminds me of bob a lot. i think they are very similar actors. highly intelligent.

he is everything but at the same time can be utterly instinctual. charlie: congratulations. david: -- david: thanks! charlie: "joy" opens on christmas day. back in a moment. stay with us. ♪ charlie: you may not know his

name but you most certainly know his work. his name is bang bang. he is one of the world's most

sought-after tattoo artists, first rose to fame after evening a phrase on to pop star rihanna's hip. now he is the go-to artist, for justin bieber, lebron james and katy perry and adele. they have all become his living canvases. here's a look at some of his work. bang bang: nobody who ever hears my name forgets it. it started with just a commitment to myself to be a tattoo artist. when i was 18 and i decided that i loved it and i didn't want to do anything else, so i tattooed guns on both sides of my neck. throughout my career, i have had a lot of experiences. there hasn't been a way for me to really like adequately explain to people how these experiences have molded my career and my life. especially with celebrities, bieber, rihanna, katy perry, their tattoos become their image and those images are trend-setting. they're bridging tattooing and fashion. charlie: he has now written a book called "bang bang, my life in ink." i am pleased to have him here for the first time.

welcome! bang bang: thanks for having me. charlie: there's a lot to talk about. discovering something you don't know much about, you know, that's what you represent. bang bang: yes, sir. charlie: the idea that -- how did you get started? bang bang: oh, man, it was kind of a fluke. i had gotten kicked out of high school a couple of times. and i wound up -- charlie: you weren't paying attention or what? bang bang: i went to boarding school in connecticut. i got the boot. i was literally 18 years old, working at red lobster. i had the ability to create art and i had the desire to be tattooed. so i kind of just connected the dots. i'm like, i'm going to buy a tattoo kit. disclaimer. that's not the way to teach yourself how to tattoo. but that's the road i went.

and i just fell in love with it. i haven't found anything i love nearly as much. charlie: how long was it between that, wanting to tattoo yourself, and wanting to tattoo someone else? bang bang: same day. i mean, yeah! by the time that kit came in the mail, i was tattooing myself, cousins, friends, anybody that wanted a permanent mistake. [laughter] charlie: permanent mistake. how long ago was that? bang bang: 12 years now. charlie: so in 12 years, has it changed much? bang bang: yeah. tattooing has changed a lot. there's still a lot of stigmas on tattooing. i'm not sure if people really kind of label it as fine art. but in my opinion, it's the most difficult medium in the world. it's a living canvas. oh, even more difficult than sculpting marble. charlie: because? well, unlike a painting where you can step away and let that dry and layer and kind of like literally sculpt your image, tattooing, we can actually hurt you. we can harm you, you know. so we only get so many attempts at what we're trying to do in a certain area. we're also hurting you, so we have to move through it very quickly. a painting that may take a painter months and months and

months, we have hours to create it in. charlie: i assume day two, you're tattooing everything that they want you to tattoo? bang bang: sometimes. charlie: and be where they want it? bang bang: it's a collaborative process. often clients don't design tattoos for a living, but i do. so they trust me to design them a great tattoo. we kind of work out the subject, why they want to be tattooed, how much area. i try to fill it out like a design. i'm trying to design your body. charlie: right.ie: and after you do that, after you do that, is the rate of sort of enthusiasm for it pretty high? bang bang: oh, yeah, man. people -- they love their tattoos. charlie: what is that about? bang bang: it's fulfilling to see it. people feel differently, interior, on their inside, you know. it's difficult to show that on your exterior, other than with a tattoo or how you dress, how you decorate yourself, how you carry yourself. it's a way to like affirm who you are visually.

it's just a form of decoration, a form of style, a form of fashion. charlie: what part of the body is hardest to tattoo? bang bang: um... everybody is a little different. but, you know, for me, hardest to tattoo is just when somebody is not sitting still. [laughter] charlie: but, i mean, and is some of it more dangerous than others? bang bang: um, no. nothing that i do is any more dangerous than anywhere else. charlie: where you do it. bang bang: yeah, we have a lot of experience in skin, you know. so a professional tattoo artist knows what he's doing with skin. you kind of know the limits with skin, what you can accomplish, what you can't. and you can say no. charlie: some people just want it on their finger. bang bang: sometimes. and there's risks that come with that. high-motion areas tend to not hold pigment as well as softer areas that get less motion. so, for example, palms of your hands, soles of your feet. those are tough to make art with needles. charlie: for people who want a tattoo but don't want it to be so visible --

bang bang: we do a lot of those, even on pop stars. alluding to rihanna's tattoos, herhas got tattoos all over neck and collar, and a lot of them are cut with water, so she has some white ink tattoos that are bit more subtle. so it is not like an overwhelming image near their face. you know, i would just say that often what can go wrong is the clientele-to-artist relationship. we meet with every client before we tattoo them. and sometimes people want to really art-direct their artist into a bad tattoo. we don't really let them do that. charlie: a bad tattoo is? bang bang: well, something that's not working. i mean, something that's not going to age well, something that's not going to age

gracefully, something that won't look appealing. our job as the artist is to make sure the visual is amazing and the job for the client is to make sure they maintain their meaning. so if somebody has something meaningful but they're really trying to design that image but they're kind of, you know, driving it off a cliff, that's when we stop. charlie: is it regulated by anybody? bang bang: it is. by the health department. though there is not a ton of regulation on it. i've tattooed in new york city for over a decade and i've seen the health department one time, in the dozen stores i've worked in throughout new york city. it's not something they regulate the way they regulate restaurants and delis and bodegas. but it's the same people inspecting. i'm looking forward to the day that i get to have some input and sit down with some of those people and try to regulate it more. charlie: would you like more regulation? bang bang: yes, i would. charlie: you're among the best or are the best.

you want to make sure -- bang bang: i just think tattoo artists that take it seriously, should have a lot of respect. some of the people doing tattoos in hat stores and scarf shops, they don't belong doing topical surgery. so i think that, yeah, there's not another industry i could think of that is so medical, medically oriented, that's not regulated. so tattooing is kind of the wild west. charlie: tell me about rihanna. bang bang: she's amazing. charlie: she is? i agree with that. bang bang: she's an amazing friend. so much that people don't see that she doesn't even care that makes her a really incredible friend. charlie: like what? bang bang: anytime i've called her, needed her, she's been right there, you know. she shows up on my birthday. this year, she sent me a cake. only person that gives me a cake on my 30th birthday. i thought i got away. and to my store comes a cake from her! you know? charlie: how did you meet her? bang bang: well, years ago, 10 years ago, when i was tattooing, in comes a singer. i'm a little out of the loop. i don't know who is who. i mean, i knew who will smith was. but often i don't know who celebrities are, because i'm in my little world of tattooing and playing with my children.

so i just met a group of beautiful women. i'm like, who is getting a tattoo? she stepped forward and we just clicked. we got along. she wanted to get this little prayer. she wanted a sanskrit prayer on her hip. it was on a necklace. i took a close look. i met her best friend, melissa. she also wanted it. and we just got along. we just got along really well. charlie: so she's been a repeat. bang bang: she wrote the forward to the book. charlie: how much do you do in europe? bang bang: not a lot. i'm going to travel there soon. i have a great friend, a retired soccer player, who wants a tattoo. i'm going to go see him soon. but i'm interested in london. one of my favorite cities. so i'd like to be there more. charlie: would you go, for example, to katy perry or rihanna? bang bang: i went on tour with katy perry for a week, also to the west coast a couple of weeks prior to that. when they call, i'm there. charlie: how about adele?

bang bang: adele is wonderful. i only tattooed her once. charlie: she got the number five on the inside of one of her fingers. bang bang: i've actually never been asked about that tattoo. i thought people didn't catch it. charlie: tell me about it. bang bang: i actually don't know what the five is for. i just know that's her most private tattoo, so i didn't want to pry. we tucked it in there so that people wouldn't catch it. she got paradise and angelo, her son's name, on both outsides of her hands. we didn't photograph her son's name, because nobody had known it. she's very private. the five was an even more private thing. again, you're the first person to ask me about that. charlie: how about lebron? bang bang: lebron is cool, man. he's a hero. i grew up loving michael jordan, so basketball, greatest basketball player always, to me. >> how did you come to be the artist for him? bang bang: just i got a call, like everybody else that i've tattooed. i got a call at 8:00 p.m. charlie: he said, this is lebron

james? somebody told me you're the best? bang bang: his manager said, lebron wants to get tattooed. can you come tomorrow? the answer is yes. yeah, i did it. i got a couple of hours sleep. he's done one that nobody's seen. charlie: he wanted a picture of his daughter on his back? bang bang: we weren't photographing it, because he wanted it to be private. charlie: listen to this. america's tattoo industry, status. pew research center. $2.3 billion annual revenue. 15,000 tattoo parlors. 21% of americans have a tattoo. 23% of women have a tattoo. percentage of men is 19%. and percentage of 18 and 25-year-olds who have a tattoo is 36%. that gives an interesting look at who is doing it, who isn't. and your goal is simply to get better? bang bang: yeah. i mean, my original goals in tattooing would be, to be at the top of those lists, of that

15,000 tattoo parlors, i wanted to be number one. charlie: how do you measure number one? bang bang: it's inside, it's internally. we set those expectations for ourselves. we set them really high. i have a team of tattoo artists that are just the best in the world. no reserve in saying that my crew is the best tattoo shop in the world. charlie: thank you. bang bang: thank you very much. charlie: pleasure to have you here. bang bang: i'll see you for your tattoo! [laughter] charlie: you won't tell them yet, will you? bang bang: no. we'll keep it private. charlie: like a rose or something. bang bang: something classy. charlie: something classy. "bang bang, my life in ink." thank you for joining us. see you next time! ♪

♪ brilliant ideas. powered by hyundai motor. narrator: the contemporary art world is vibrant and booming as never before. it is a 21st-century phenomenon, a global industry in its own right. "brilliant ideas" looks at the artists at the heart of this. they have a unique power to inspire, astonish, provoke, and shock. to push boundaries, ask new questions, and see the world afresh. artists like simon denny. ♪