sounds like my ride's ready. don't get stuck on hold. reach an expert fast. comcast business. built for business. >> from our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose. is here.mandy patinkin he is an emmy and tony award-winning actor. you knew that. he stars on the hit series, "homeland." >> i am not done. i guarantee you not one thing about your life from this moment forward will be easy. i will personally see to that. killed.d to have kerry >> nonsense.

>> she was your friend. >> you were my friend. more than that. >> you butchered agents in cairo. that was years, wasn't it? charlie: the show has become a prescient commentary on our time. mandy patinkin traveled to greece to assist a refugee -- to assist refugees arriving from syria. im please to have him at this table. pleased to have them at this table. we will talk about homeland, but tell me about greece. why did you decide to go there? season onwrapped the friday night and i was on the first plane to greece in the morning. charlie: why? mandy: i live in a fictional , a fictional hell, a mirror of the world we are living in, and i needed to

connect with the real world. was was as real as i knew happening anywhere on the planet, and i wanted to help. i wanted to be with families and do whatever i could for them. hold some children. just help them along in their journey. i knew immediately when i saw what was happening that these numbers would take place and that this was my family, these are our families. ,0 years ago, 100 years ago fleeing russian pogroms, nazi germany, it's us. it's you. it's me. it's every american. charlie: marco says 991,000 of are people who having gate their own fear and calm because theirolerable -- engaged own fear and come because of intolerable circumstances where they were, but one of them may

not be that. they may be someone who is trained and radicalized to kill americans. mandy: not a single refugee has committed a murder in america since 9/11. many homegrown americans have theme terrorists through internet. it has not yet happened. can it happen? sure. say one of the terrorists in paris came through greece as a refugee. mandy: i have heard that passport was not authentic. yes, that mayay be a possibility, but that is not who we are. we have to open our arms because that is how we began. that is what the statue of liberty has always stood for. we welcome you to our country. met dr., charlie,

and i prescribed medicine, one day, if i have a good career, i will prescribe aspirin to someone. someone could die from aspirin. am i not to prescribe medication to anyone who comes through my door for fear that what i do could one day kill them? this is insane thinking. i saw marco rubio on your show. he walks in and says the guns aren't the problem. these people would get the guns anyway. the guns are a problem. 2.4 million incidents of people having guns that shouldn't have them, mentally ill people, sexual abusers, would be terrorists, have been stopped in the past 20 years. but now, because the world has changed, you can buy a gun at a gun show without a background check. there is a video of jihadi joe

that the brady campaign sent me. he says go to the gun shows, please. you don't need a background check. by these guns now. what are you waiting for? but marco rubio isn't trying to do anything about stopping the gun situation in america. and by the way, the brady campaign and everyone else is being very clear. are not against healthy, law-abiding citizens owning guns. what has this compelled you to do other than alert americans to the passion you have found? to elizabeth, new jersey, last thursday with my wife and two people from the international rescue committee. i met two people, a man and wife. they have a daughter on the autism spectrum. aspirate or syndrome.

-- askedburgers parker's syndrome. through their home. it blew their daughter to the other room. them, puther took them in a van, and drove them to turkey. they were in a detention center for two and a half years. because of the daughters problems, they could not handle her and said we are going to take her to norway. with the schools and care was the united states of america. so the family was brought to new jersey, which has some of the best care for refugees in the country. we spent to the day with this family. they were wonderful. my wife and i went through the whole house. we have four huge boxes of clothing, shoes, coats, everything we are giving to this family. we are sending another round of clothing and shoes to another

family we met in greece but i talked to every day. i encourage everyone of my fellow citizens to seek out one of the 24 or 26 -- forgive me, im much or what the exact number is -- of international -- i am not sure what the exact number is of international refugee stations around america and find out where syrian refugees have then brought in your community. welcome them to your home. have them over for a holiday dinner. bring them to your mosque, your synagogue, your church. stop helping isis recruit young men and women from all over the world. how? change their marginalized lives into wonderful lives. all over our country and every ,ountry to give them education opportunity, jobs, medical, agricultural, holmes. give them everything that we have and want for our children,

and get to our children in this country. take care of everybody. the amount of money, $1.6 trillion spent on the war effort. take a fraction of that them put it to a humanitarian effort. if you do that for these people all over the world, people in these beautiful muslim communities, beautiful children and families, and you take care of their children, palestinian families who need help and care, people will stop being so victimized. they will say -- they want desperately to have freedom, justice, and dignity, as i have said before. we all do. and we can help them have it. charlie: this is not a new idea, as you know. mandy: no serco, but who is doing it? sir, but who is doing it? charlie: my question is why.

we understand that people are driven to radicalization for a variety of reasons, including feeling that life is left them out. they can find people, causes, purpose, all of that. and education would play a role in having them see there is a better place to be. question is why haven't we done that? it has been understood that we need to do more. part of thenk reason is people are addicted to a class system. i think they want lower classes so that they feel more powerful, so they can exercise their greed . i think that happens all over the world. i think there are economic reasons. i think war makes more money than peace. it's big business. you make a lot more money selling billions of dollars of weapons and shipping guns. you are the

president of the united states and you have just witnessed paris, you go to the side of of thosemes, -- site crimes, and then you get a call from someone saying we have a terrible incident in san bernardino. then he realized these were two people who are radicalized years -- you realize these were two people who were radicalized years ago. and then you have americans saying this could happen in my neighborhood, and it is all coming from isis. what is the president do? take the fight to isis, but at the same time, we want to fight them in the world of ideas and finding a better alternative. mandy: i believe it is called the international criminal court system, which the united states does not participate in. i would not assassinate the head of isis nor adolph

hitler. i would put them in jail for the rest of their lives to protect the rest of the world. i think killing breeds more killing. do want to others as you would have them do into you -- unto you. -- do unto others as you would have them do unto you. there is nohink question that if the president had him in his sights, he would kill him. mandy: absolutely. saul would, but mandy wouldn't. if he had a button in his hand and was going to hurt a human being with it, i would kill him. charlie: he does have a button in his hand. mandy: you're right.

so i would kill him. i am being contradictory. do let your guard down. i want every security agency to work harder than they are working now to ensure our security and the security of every individual all over the world. i know people will slip through the cracks, but i am not seeing the other side being taken care of. what i am referring to is opportunity for these men and in neighborhoods where there are muslim communities where they have no quality life. i am not seeing any funds cut or any way to make this quality of life. charlie: a lot of people agree with you. a lot of people in the military agree with you. are notates has said we using all of the arrows in our quiver. mandy: it's a failure of imagination. my wife has an expression, hurt people, hurt people.

i am so upset with people who are not exercising their intellect as much as they are exercising their emotions. look at me. i get that's because i am an emotional human being. nuts because i am an emotional human being. we all are. but i must exercise my intellect. how many refugees have committed at the attack in america? i do the research and find out none. let me say one other thing about what to do. it's about how to think, how to be, where to put your heart. ted cruz, running for president. he loves a movie that i was privileged to be a part of called "the princess bride."

a family movie. it has caught on over generations. and when he does interviews like this, or group interviews, or makes speeches, he quotes lines from this wonderful movie that william goldman wrote. a friend of mine sent me a picture of me a family movie. it has caught on over generations. and when he does interviews like this, with ted cruz's face superimposed on my face. i have to approve every glass, mug, or t-shirt that has my image, but he is allowed to use my body without anyone approving this. so, what do i think? happened, ted cruz says we need to go on a war footing. we need a war president in this country. that's how he campaigns, to be be president of the

united states of america, the most powerful force in the free world. and i couldn't disagree more.

charlie: we shouldn't be at war with isis? mandy: we should be. we are.

i want isis to stop the killing. i want everyone who does the killing to stop the killing. to protecthe way everyone in the world is to stop killing universally. create better systems of living and existing, freedom, justice, dignity, quality of life to humanity all over the world. stop spending $1.6 trillion on bombs. cruz, if you quote all these lines from "the princess bride," why do you leave one line out? making the32 and movie, i didn't really realize what i was saying. i didn't pay attention until i was 55 or so. it's my favorite line that william goldman wrote. i asked him to look at it, deeply consider it, learn it," it. the line is, "i have been in the ,evenge business for so long

now that it's over, i don't know what to do with the rest of my life co-i thank william goldman for writing that. -- my life." i thank william goldman for writing that. urge ted cruz to learn those lines from the movie he loves so much. talk aboutt's homeland. tell me about the evolution of saul berenson. we just saw a scene from a very in which he lost and it was about his humanity. it was about friends who had been killed. it was about the trail. it was about a whole range of things. even all of since you first created the character?

mandy: you know, he and i are , and he has taught me to be more hopeful and more optimistic in my life. he has taught me to go to greece and hold these families in my arms. saul berenson taught me that because of the necessary things one needs to do to keep america safe, use some drones sometimes. it?how do you balance you find a way to feed your soul and your moral heart by taking care of human beings whenever you can. he is a bit naive, like mandy at times, in his hope and optimism. he is a tough guy, and he will do whatever it takes to keep the

world safe, but he sometimes trusts people that he may be shouldn't be so trustful of. he is in great pain and suffering most of the time over the condition of the world, and he would love -- my friend larry norton, who is a dear friend, our kids went to kindergarten together. we have grown up together. i remember larry years ago said i believe i can cure cancer in my lifetime. at some point the last person will walk through the door who has this cancer. and i know larry to this day is living with the believe in the hope that before he checks out, he will stop all cancers. he will hold that. charlie: i believe that someone will. believesul berenson that this kind of inhumanity toward man will one day stop.

you could say to me, mandy, that's naive, it has never stopped from the beginning of time. so i am supposed to stop hoping for it? a war mediator. at the end of season four when saul berenson was captured by a , played by an actor who is a beautiful human being, but at the end of it, saul berenson is going to be traded, as it happened here, for four or five known terrorists who would go out and do more harm. he would rather take his own life. kill me before you let someone else go out there and heard someone else. suffered fromly post-traumatic stress disorder. i woke up as we finished shooting and i wrote this one that half page feeling

saul had about where he was at. was very dark. very angry. very revengeful. the polar opposite of what i have been saying. he wanted to just and nine relate all of these people who have been doing harm but also including people like dick --ney, don runs itself donald rumsfeld, not just known terrorists, but people who don't too good. nathan at it to lori dinner. -- iconversation started will back up a little bit to the conversation at the dinner the day before. he was talking about the middle east and he said i don't think there is going to be peace in my lifetime. i said really. or our children's lifetime. really. right when the gaza war was happening. it was a horrible time. and every day i was looking at an island from my window, it was

where mandela lived for all those years. all fools,, are we who work for peace, who work for these organizations? these organizations that try to make peace in the middle east and all over the world, are we fools? he said absolutely not. he said it's imperative that every organization continues that effort toward peace because when the opportunity comes, the window cracks open for a mere second, and if you are not ready, like in this country. no one expected mandela to get out of prison let alone become president. but the world's pressure, the world's sanctions and attention toward this difficult situation , and then mandela was brought out of prison and for 25 years the world changed. it has slipped back now. he said you must continue these efforts and these works.

family who think i'm naive and it's a shame that i talk about this. to make the palestinians lives better? to give them opportunities in schools, why? they are killing us, say some of my relatives. for my relatives because they are frightened. they are very frightened. but let me tell you what has happened to saul berenson because of fear. because mandy and saul berenson live together. , read these lines all day long and i am old, so i have to read them a hundred million times to learn them. and then i shoot this dark tale that we are all living in the real world. id then i leave work and watch your show and read the newspaper, and it's more of what i've been doing at work. and do you know what has happened to me? i am not afraid.

afraid of a are not terrorist coming into your home or a movie theater? mandy: i am not. why? because i think i have been desensitized to it in a positive way. i think possibly the only thing that will happen from all this fear is that eventually we will. being so afraid and get on with living this very short life we have to live. , and neitherfraid is mandy. i am afraid of other things, but not terrorist's. terrorists. i am afraid of people not being morally, ethical human beings. charlie: that we will not let the better angels of our souls -- mandy: the better angels. i am working on a movie about an immigrants story and the last song -- a musical about an lastrant story and the

song is about the better angels. please, everyone listening, call the international rescue committee. go visit a syrian family. you won't be afraid. when you read about it and hear these shows that make you look at the real thing. you can do it in your neighborhood, your country, your village. you will feel differently. i want to nicaragua during the war. we went -- went to nicaragua during the war. we took testimony from people who had watched their families being killed and dismembered in front of them. we took that testimonies to -- testimony to congress and a broken hearts. saul see int does arie?

he met her at yellen believed she had a sensitivity to human nature greater than his up -- met her at yale and believed she sensitivity to human nature greater than his own. mandy: knowing that he won't get to be here forever, and knowing morethe world is getting and more troubled and is on fire all over that his best shot for healing humanity worldwide is that child. say but she does this, she is called the drone queen and all of that, but he believes she is the best thing going for humanity. she has does he believe better skills than he does? mandy: yes, just like i believe better skillsave

than i do. what do you see him as? mandy: her father figure and mentor, whether she likes it or not. she had her own dad. charlie: she wasn't very nice to him. wasy: if kerry matheson here and said i don't see you as my father, i would wait until she left the room and say, she does see me as her father. she needs to say what she needs to say. who is the student, who is the teacher, who is the parent, who is the child? saul has taught me to be quieter. you see how crazy i get. saul doesn't get that way. charlie: we just saw him lose it. years.one time in five

one time in five years when a lover had betrayed him and jeopardized the whole western world. that shedid the fact was the lover make it harder for him? mandy: yes. trust. charlie: and terrible judgment. rawy: i am in my naked, humanity. you me. you lied to me. you tricked me. you used me. you destroy human beings. you try to get my child. friends of mine, you killed. dore are people -- how do i this? because i don't live on a fictional paper. i infuse things that happen in the real world all around me, real people, real things, real names, and some that i imagined, that i use everything really my mind. you don't hear or see it. it wears me out. is it fair to say that mandy, as much as humanly possible, once to live his life to the fullest? he want to make sure -- wants to

live his life to the fullest? he wants to make sure he is as open and accessible to everything that is important? and that is what the refugee trip was about? mandy: yes. charlie: that is who you are. mandy: i don't want to waste my time on this planet. i want to do good for humanity. i really do. it's the most selfish act i can do because it is the thing that makes me feel best. to do something for others. i was a very selfish person for most of my life as a young person, wanting to get ahead, wanting to be successful. charlie: ambition. mandy: but i have learned that the real gifts come from helping others, being there for others, my children, my wife, my fellow citizens of the world. and i have become less afraid. you can bet your whatever you want to call it that there are all kinds of people out there and they want to say, you know, he is a bad guy.

mandy is a bad guy because he says this or that. i am not afraid of them anymore. charlie: you have learned to listen. mandy: saul has taught me that an homeland has taught me that. thank you. hope you are right, even if just a little more than i had before. wondered when homeland began why it was such a success. i believed it was because of how we listened to people or how we are not listening. when we are listening or when we are not listening about what we are listening. so, we get to watch this mirror of our own existence and see what works and what is not working. and usually what is not working means loss of life and what is working means possibility.

charlie: i give this credit where belongs, to my friend tom brokaw, who said it's a mistake not to gocharlie:. meaning, it's a mistake not to go to greece. it's a mistake not to give full expression to your own openness , ande world around you don't seek the quiet, uneventful place where you can live within your own accomplishments and your own material gains. go where there is the challenge, the test, and learning, and listening. absolutely. and be grateful for the risk of life. if you don't take a risk every waking up.ot worth being afraid, having dark this is an equal part to joy. you don't know what to joy is unless you know what it is not.

get rainbows without rain. it's an equal part of life to be , but ited and scared mustn't override the good possibilities that exist in all of our lives. has saul berenson as a character had a greater impact on you than any other character you have played? or maybe because it came to you at a different time in your life? mandy: i would say the character i feel has had the greatest think -- well, it was george in sunday in the park with george. james lapine and stephen sondheim wrote words repeatedly repeated by my character, connect, george, connect. aboute have been talking

is connecting. connecting to humanity, two children, to the living part of this world. that is what that artist tried to do. , i want to be with everyone who is terrified, and i want to sit with them as long as it takes until they are not afraid to go to the movie or the mall, not afraid to get on the airplane. charlie: you should me a film, and we will take a look at it now, in which you said you ask fearful,ple, are you and they said? mandy: no, we are not afraid of anything. they had just told me how the father had beaten isis, knocked him down. mom had her two boys taken, 10 and five. the children couldn't talk. they had to go through the woods and they escaped.

they had to go on this journey, and after they told me this journey i said are you afraid of anything? they said absolutely nothing. i need you to narrate this clip. what am i seeing? mandy: these are people i just met. you are going to see it a little bit acrid. they put this in front. the third day i was there, no boats had arrived. here is the boat those folks had just gotten off of. i am running down the street, coming there, and you will see me in a moment, and these boats holds 23-24 people, coming from turkey. this is a further point. shouldy, a six mile trip take an hour and a half. this took two and a half hours. they are setting foot on greek now they are free.

this man hands me his child, his little girl, and i take his daughter. someone else handed me their son. i got these two kids and then i and i wascome here, helping. i was so grateful i was helping. right after it, the little girl in the pink jacket had a facemask on. she was a moving and i thought she had died. i was terrified. but my mouth said she is sleeping. i remember my heart was thinking she is gone and my mouth said she is sleeping. i love that there was some optimism coming out of me in shock. fine.ild was she had epilepsy. the international rescue committee took her in an ambulance to a hospital. she had medication. they reunited the family and they went on their way. it's another wonderful tale. charlie: and you are glad you

went. glad: charlie, i am really i went. i just wanted to help anyway i could. here at i came back this moment when fear because of paris and all over the world has just exploded. things are coming out of donald trump's mouth, this fear mongering, and all of a sudden i am this small part of telling people wait a minute. wait a minute. i was just there. i was with these people, the syrian refugees, these afghan people. they are beautiful. they are like my children. please, don't be afraid of them. callu don't believe me, the international rescue committee. they are in your community. go see them. it will change your life. will stopof and the cycle of peace can begin. let's begin it. charlie: thank you for coming. mandy: thank you, sir.

charlie: i also congratulate you. i read today that showtime has renewed homeland for another season. mandy: yes, we have. charlie: that's good news. back in a moment. stay with us. ♪

serene jones is here.

to leadhe first woman the largest organization of theological scholars in the united states. next year, she will be president of the american academy of religion. thispleased to have her at table for the first time. let's talk about the union theological center first. oldest andis the perhaps most globally significant independent seminary in the united states. it was founded by a group of pastors from new haven and princeton who had the realization in the 1830's that if you want to teach people to and serve humanity, you cannot do it in the quiet of the countryside surrounded by elites. they set up a tent on the docks of new york.

since its inception, that has been our identity and we have been good at educating leaders who speak out on public issues. who made the offer decision to speak out against hitler and was killed just as the war was ending because of a stance that grew out of his faith. paul --, a scholar with a powerful vision of what it means to live with courage. him often innk of these dark days. he had this view of christian realism that people should not be afraid of moral complexity,. -- complexity. and should not seek simple answers. serene: there are no simple answers. more recently, it is focused on

black theology, feminist theology. a turny, we have taken in our curriculum to interface and have muslim and buddhist faculty. there are a lot of conversations about muslims today. the most loud conversation comes from donald trump. you have been tweeting about that. tell me how you see it from your own experience and position. serene: first of all, what trump has been saying as of late is a -- amoral andning frightening. pray, but when i pray i pray that it is not as fascist as it appears to be. what scares me more are the crowds cheering him.

that these words can be spoken and find an audience. i see our nation in a state of thel collapse where conditions created by economic crisis, the loss of the capacity a hope, the disintegration of moral framework -- and this is across the board -- is creating of rage and despair that we see popping up in all directions. it's interconnected. charlie: how? serene: well, dare i say that the kind of rage expressed in the shooting at a planned parenthood in denver is not that different than the rage that drives someone to go online and identify with isis and begin to make that journey. that is the kind of analysis and complexity that we need is a nation to not be afraid to look at. what drives a person to participate in these actions of horrific violence? if we want to just call them

crazy, that's fine. i think there is a certain level of insanity there. but if you have a complex understanding of human nature, you can't take into account how poverty, have fear, how -- how fear, how displacement, how the rage that comes with entitlement, things that live inside all of us as human beings, but we are living in a time of fanning the fires that create the outburst's. -- outbursts. isiske a mistake because claims to be islamic, and many muslims say they are not muslims, and if you dig beneath of them havemany never opened the cover of the koran. but to ask muslim leaders in general to somehow weigh in specifically on this group of thugs that is growing in power as if somehow there is a religious identity there -- but

this is where theological vocabulary and a depth of thinking about the human condition becomes quite helpful, because you stop seeing these in a simplistic moral framework, and you begin to understand the fear it's motivated by. the kind of fear that would mobilize a man to shoot planned parenthood. the kind of fear that mobilized the couple in san bernardino. something about who we are as human beings that can get ignited. and cause us to stop seeing another human being as a human being and do acts of outrageous violence against them. charlie: help me understand the connection between the deed and the mindset to do the deed. serene: i think that kind of mindset is developed in a , and it can be

attributed to almost any religion, where the world becomes a simplistic story about good and evil. p really bad people on one side, purely good people on the other -- purely bad people on one side and purely good people on the other, and the bad people represent such a threat to your existence that annihilation is the only remedy. charlie: and that is what isis has done. or other radicalized religions. done upchristianity has for years, centuries. the crusades. i would also say the crowds cheering donald trump right now. charlie: who are they? thatare they saying reflects your sense of who they are? think to be able to cheer that kind of bigotry and him a yourst of all

have to be very afraid. you have to see some -- first of all, you have to be very afraid. you have to see somehow that your own life is threatened. you also have to need a release for that anxiety. if i can find bad people and blame it on them, its classical scapegoating. there's a kind of relief that comes when you can demonize. charlie: do you believe the pope? kind ofi am not the christian who believes that miracles happen and i think he is america. who could imagine that a man the this would step on to world stage and speak with such prophetic power and clarity? is his: and what message? you are a religious dollar. what is his message? -- religious scholar. what is his message? serene: god tells us to love each other. that's it.

and if you are not loving each other, you are not doing your job. charlie: where is christianity today? serene: it is in decline. the number of people joining congregations and being active is down. globally, south america, asia, growing like wildfire. is exactly where the gains are in the catholic church. .ot in traditional places latin america. many of those communities would be unrecognizable to american white christian's or african-american christians because it is a very different language, ritual, worldview, and it's a challenge. charlie: what brought you to divinity studies? serene: i grew up in a family with a father who was a theologian. charlie: that's a good start. serene: common lingo.

i couldhe first words speak when i was about to was .ierkegaard my father used to say to us when we would fight or come home with a bad grade, he would call us children of light and children of darkness. a rich intellectual religious environment. came time for me to choose my path, i wanted a path where i could both engage in political discourse as a citizen and be active, but speak profoundly. charlie: what do you think of black lives matter? serene: my school has played a big role in mobilizing their protests. i went to ferguson for about two after thet fall august killing of michael brown. was stunned by what i

experienced in ferguson. it was life-changing for me. charlie: how so? -- i have always prided myself on being an open , but toressive person drive down the main drag of ferguson and see a town in the united states where buildings have been boarded up and burned out, where barbed wire has been put up, and then to come to the police station and see tanks and officers in gas masks holding guns, pointing into crowds of young people, it would shocking to me. to go to the place cash was shocking to me. to go to the place where michael -- it was shocking to me.

to go to the place where michael brown lived and see that there was no education in that neighborhood. you just get a sense of the despair and violence experienced by the people in that community. it was like going to a war zone, and it's our own country. you say what wrong with this -- what is wrong with this picture? what is wrong with this picture? why are we still in a war over this country -- in this country over race? the answer, i think, is slavery. lasted 200 years and it was a sanctioned, church execution.ystem of you have to develop a psychology of the part of the white people doing this that involves

enormous acts of denial just for the system to continue. and it's that denial about what was involved and the kind of unconscious processes in our own minds in this country that we have not begun to undo. we have not even claimed it as the horrific system that it once. we having gone through anything like what germany went through after the second world war, and i was a war in a relatively short time frame. -- that was a war in a relatively short time frame. we are talking about 200 years of a state sanctioned war on black bodies in this country, legal torture. to face intogin that and we have to talk seriously about reparations. there should be no african-american child in this country that does not have access to the best education, free college education. there should be no black family who -- 40% of the black

community lost more than 60% of ofir net worth in the crash 2008. this happens time and again. charlie: 40% of the black population lost over half of their net worth. serene: dramatically different than what happened in the white community. we need to address homeownership and issues of health care. we have kind of walked away from them. mission in life to speak to power and to speak to failure to address human needs, or is it to promote religion? it would never be to promote religion? butlie: i didn't think so, i was looking for a better way to express it. to train people in theology. serene: i believe in the message of love that it holds. i think some powerful form of

love that has to get broader cultural expression -- it's like we are sitting as a civilization on the cusp of a new understanding about love. there, but we are all going down if we don't figure this out. charlie: meaning what? serene: collapsing. as a globe. as a world. comeie: i hope you will back so that we can speak more. the first woman to lead the union theological seminary in new york city. thank you for joining us. see you next time. ♪

megan: i'm megan murphy. mark: i am mark halperin. "with all due respect" to donald trump, oy vey. ♪ on the show tonight, cruz's polls, rubio's trolls, and kasich's goals. first, trump's role. since we last discussed trump versus clinton, he escalated his hits on clinton last night in walker, michigan. he had choice words for the democratic front runner that has been the talk of the political world all day. mr. trump: she is terrible. do t