him >> from new york city, this is charlie rose. rose: he's previously served as chief white house correspondent for nbc news. a spiritual journey to understand his own beliefs. it is called house your faith. your faith?

gregory: it was something that has been rising up inside of me for a long time. grappling with these questions. who am i? what is a life full of meaning and purpose? arose at a time when is , married to al woman with great kids. my wife is a christian a protestant, i am jewish. she was challenging me to lead our family and faith. silliness on a spiritual path. i discovered a lot about myself. the search for goodness.

rose: this is religious readings by the allergens -- theologians? texts,regory: spiritual in judaism as in other faiths a lot of medieval scholars and phosphors were self-help gurus. they help you deal with anger and pride and humility. path thatdiscovered a was a loving path, on the path. one that for me at least was something we don't talk about a lot in media circles. cultivating a relationship with god. george bush and i have a number of conversations. he had heard that i was studying

with a scholar in an attempt to deepen my faith. i walked into the oval office , stand up straight girls there is meet the press. he asked me about my faith. i said was strong and getting stronger. the question struck me in a way .hat intimidated me i grew up with a cultural and ethnic identity, but not a real spiritual belief. faith?my how could it be better? how can i be better? by seeking answers and grappling with questions about living with meaning and purpose and trying to quiet myself. become a little more humble. i am doing all this in these years as i am on the ascent in network news. that is not a place where the

spiritual journey flourishes. think about others. the whole thing is structured around south. i failed then i continue to fail now. rose: how has it changed your life? both in terms of religion and practice of your daily life. secondly, would have made a difference if you discovered this 10 years before. gregory: i think i might've been a little bit different. i could have been different if i had been more committed to a path of deepening my faith, seeking humility, seeking goodness. i could've dealt with some of the things that did hurt me. i succeeded young in this business.

when things didn't go well for me at nbc and ultimately losing my job and meet the press part of that. better at making people understand that my success was their success as well, that we were all in this together. i was a little bit more aloof and insular. being on a path of faith and humility couldn't help anymore. i feel like faith has taught me understanding that my life is pretty small in relation to god and relation to the rest of the world. if i am just for myself, then who am i? understanding that we are all in this together. there is such an important virtue and being committed to each other. be better as

individuals and to make the world better place. this outer directed thinking is a way that i think has helped me . at no point to i feel like have figured this out. whatever weaknesses and flaws that i have are magnified through a search for greater spiritual awareness and maturity. but there is also the comfort that i am not alone. god is present. goodness is still a goal. charlie rose: it was timothy dolan i think who said don't make this a project. religion is not a project. gregory: for me, the search for god, the search for

goodness, the search for the spiritual touch has become less about the head and more about the heart. it is as cardinal dolan says i dare, an act of love. faith is ultimately about love. this is about having an openness to receive. an openness to each other humanity. to seek the presence of, whether it is perspective or appreciation. the presence of the divine. elevates me, comforts me, inspires me. and forces me in my life to try to do better. anger had always been my adversary, you say. my father who just died about a month ago really scared me as a kid.

he was tall and intimidating. i really resent to that. i resented it as i got older. .hat he made me feel that way as a parent i said i would never do that to my children. and so i did. i was very much like my father. when i had episodes where i would frighten my children. i realize that this is a problem. this is something that i have to control. rose: as you talk to other people was there a common denominator in their messages to you? gregory: at a time when religions can so often divide, the message i got from joelgelical preachers, jolo s

, andn, cardinal dolan others. [laughter] david gregory: come on this is got to happen now. i am knocking at the door. there was an acceptance, a universal message of just having an openness. to try to do a little bit more. that was really a wonderful message of acceptance that i think we do well in organized religion to transmit a little bit more. to figure out what unites us. common points of connection. charlie rose: let me talk at your professional life. what you doing?

david gregory: there is no time like now. it was tough. to go through. i succeeded for a long time very young. i had never known any setbacks. it was hard and it was embarrassing. i think it was unnecessary. it is about your identity as well as your job. the sense that people are looking at me and saying, what happened to him? he failed. something ugly happened to him. i felt that. the community, in our journalistic community. i was also stung by the fact that there was a fair amount of indifference to what happened to me. i try to take some

responsibility for that. people didn't really seem to care that much. they didn't really reach out. when i have more friends? -- why don't i have more friends? me, washington is a tough town, it's a tough business, we get all that. if i did some of you put myself out more for other people, maybe i would've gotten more back. i colleague at nbc wrote that everybody always thought you were unstoppable. that's not really the way that i wanted to have been known. i did see myself as unstoppable but i didn't have the same self-awareness. myhurt, but it led me to

faith, it didn't always hold me. it handled.e it was a big blow to my identity and what i cared about. television magnifies us in the a way where the level of recognition. to lose that identity i thought that maybe no one will care about me. if i'm not that guy on tv. working through that and realizing that setbacks happen. rose: you want to get back in there? you are much more connected to you really are. perhaps this is about, as was churchill's wife said, it's a blessing in disguise. and he said it's a hell of a disguise.

gregory: i wouldn't mind a little less disguise. [laughter] can i just speak about another kind of gift. my father was not a person of faith. culturally and ethnically jewish. the, he becamed more vulnerable. he became enthralled by the search. he didn't know where it came from. he was uncomfortable with some of the things i write about my childhood and about him. my mother's alcoholism. he all of a sudden as he gets closer to death is enthralled in the search. as he felt more vulnerable i would read to him from psalms. unusual vocabulary for both of us.

on the wednesday before he died i was with him. i said dad i'm going to go now. i hope to see you again but if you die before i return i want you to know that my heart is full. we had been estranged at various times. at different points. i am just so happy that you are my father. i took his hand and i prayed him: into your hand soul i place.y he said that's beautiful. i said i will see you soon or i will see you in the world to come. he died the next day. that moment accomplish something that mere words cannot

accomplish. , theauty of my father beauty of my parting with my father reaffirms the importance of the search. charlie rose: i urge everybody to go ande of cameras record conversations with your parents to let them know that their life lives through you. the you have it to show descendents yet to be born. your story is embedded in them. dna but in the sense of who i am. gregory: our parents are the authors of our story. even the tough parts. charlie rose: the search for who

i am and how i relate to something larger than i am is a journey that has to be beneficial to you. to will find some connection that there is a lot more out there than just you. you have context, peoples and places. david gregory: you also have something larger to aspire to. i haven't figured everything out. there is something aspirational that keeps me reaching higher to be better. of my life, that seeking was not a part of my life until about 10 years ago. i feel that i am better for it. called rose: the book is faith?your ♪ ♪

charlie rose: marlon james is here. book the author of the that was awarded the booker prize for fiction. the story revolves around the attempted assassination of bob marley in 1976. economy called the dizzyingly complex. even optioned by hbo

for a television series adaptation. james: thank you for having me. charlie rose: you came here looking for a teaching job? james: when i moved to minneapolis i just finished my second novel and that is said in the 18th century. story fromed by that way back in 1991 when i was still in college. timothy white wrote the definitive biography of bob marley. he wrote a really curious postscript when he went back to the assassination attempt. that was the first time i read anybody talk about these men and what had happened to them. as a novelist i am attracted by

mysteries. i am never going to solve them but i like playing around with them. it took me over 20 years to get back to it. the spark was from then. i wrote two novels. one was in the 1950's in jamaica . it was about to preachers fighting for this village. one was an alcoholic that is possibly demon possessed. was kind of ael slave narratives about six women who plan a slave rebellion in secret, an all-female rebellion. rose: you said you thought about killing yourself when you were only 16? marlon james. jamaica has a very acute

homophobia. you forhad to happen to you still to have this feeling of. charlie rose: you have gay characters here. you didn't come out until you were 44. you knew he were 16. james: i knew before i was 16. i think a large part of it was finding avenues to disappear in. for a long time that was the church. that was a great place to disappear in if you don't want to be yourself. that knocked off 10 years. before i knew it i blinked and i was 40. there was always some way to kind of escape it. charlie rose: you are influenced

by dickens. who else? james: toni morrison, salman rushdie. because, the story is set in church. was shame.novels i would have these really big bibles and i would slip his book inside the bible. i am laughing because i am reading the salman rushdie novel. when i first read that book i was so appalled by it. i was a dickens guide, a victorian. the idea of messing with narrative like that never occurred to me. in reading like that, it gave me permission to write in a certain way. the same thing with toni

morrison and song of solomon. british, in a very colonial education. disillusionment, change of the geography. i was looking for bigger answers than the church could give. very, a lot ofbe praise and worship not a lot of intellectual stimulation. it is hard to begin jamaica -- be gay in jamaica. . was a celibate christian

thinking that i was sustaining myself that way. not anything that ever confronted in jamaica. for moving when i left was that i just wanted to be somewhere else. lot a knock on a jamaica. i adore my country. it took years of coming into myself and wanting more out of life. want, who am i? i am in all of of coates.

his article ons reparations was the best thing that has been said about it. acute don't realize the nature of race in jamaica. mess is a whole different kind of mess. ourse far more subtle with .s more endemic we have a very british racism. we might not have had to desegregate our schools and at the same time we didn't have to if everybody's trying to bleach their skins and get their families lighter and lighter. rose: do you get up and write at a certain time of day? james: it is been different for each book.

for one book i got up at 5:00 in the morning and were up till 9:00. i would stop to regardless of where i was. a character a day. that is white ended up being the kind of book that is. it is the first novel i wrote what i had to let go of my idea of what a novel should be. my last novel despite being written in the slave language still adheres to the classic idea of a novel. multiple characters. stories that sometimes just peter out. the novel doesn't and it just stops. which is weird for a 700 page novel. i had to let go of all that.

i will leave in in into my editor takes it out. that's how i got there. taking up more than he did. even after he approved it, i took 10,000 words out. i don't did i tried to distinguish between memory and history. fiction, as a writer i reserve the right for invention. fantasies and making things up. ways responding to gaps in history. there are things of that this that we areabout never going to know. such as the names of the men who tried to kill bob marley. i didn't even start to write a

novel. i started to write a novella. i was reading jim thompson and , really classic short crime novels. i wanted to write a cool crime novel. i kept running into dead ends with these characters. the first character that i wrote in this novel is on page 458. i was still writing it in the way that i wrote my previous novel and i kept running into dead ends. said to me what you think it is just one person's story? that was the turning point.

charlie rose: have you read as i lay dying? jame? james: i read frank sinatra has a cold, this stunning essay by gate ouy talese. i didn't even need marley's name for the book. i just said the singer. turns into this bob marley has a cold kind of novel. there were lots of reasons why they wanted to kill him. he was becoming too influential in jamaica. house, theirther's

pictures on the wall. political party, no pictures of the family. that is how much the calls of personality became ingrained. the idea that people in the ghettos in the slums of jamaica could think for themselves even to the point may be forming their own government was just unthinkable. and the left wing both hated that. he was becoming too much of the unifier. the booka character in who says bad times are good times for somebody. he was disrupting that way too much.

the idea that one side may have wanted to become a martyr. , the only other person on that level. i cannot think of another artist who has summary forces working against him. every day is a negotiation between some of the most dangerous man in the country and him. he wasy days before smoking weed with. house is asn the outrageous and attack as the attack on him. these killers violated that. rose: you show violence and sex in a rather graphic and detailed way.

james: violence should be violent. ofre is a was a danger sliding into a pornography of violence. just like with sex. i tell my students to risk pornography. get close to it. is not just a matter of being visceral. explicit violence or real violence may shock the reader but ultimately it doesn't turn him off from that narrative. , this is sonse was bad that i stopped reading the book, that is different from i was shocked but i finished the book. it is a very very fine line but

you always have to walk it. charlie rose: writing female characters. james: i struggled with them early on. it was another writer, she read and she saidovel you have a clue about women. i am in civil jamaican man raised by woman. she said who do you read? like a lot of male writers, i haven't read any women. she was the one who made me read toni morrison. that changed my life.

whereis a scene in sula and nown her deathbed finally confronts her. i have done this, i have seen this. i have all this great things that i have done. she says what you have to show for it? then sula says showalter who. who.ow to that was the validating moment. i'll have to prove anything to anybody. rose: you called winning the booker prize affirming.

james: it is the riskiest and loosest novel i have ever written. i still consider myself a victorian novelist. i still believe in the nuts and bolts to the point of annoying my students. playing with narrative. writing a chapter in blank verse. writing a nine page sentence. this is the first time the novelist in my head came down to the page intact. awarded to that is a hell of a thing. it means that i can be myself as a novelist. rose: will this affect caribbean literature?

james: there so many exciting voices. .e don't just mean anglo cuban literature has been revolutionized. literature coming out of puerto rico. haiti.rom a novel from the virgin islands. has a whole bunch of new writers coming up. i am leaving the 20th century behind for a little bit. i am going to africa in the 11th century. argument aboutis hobbit. we're having a discussion we always have about diversity.

if the shire was multiracial, nobody would've cared. the lord of the rings is european. i said you can do whatever you want with it. about the rich mythical and historical tradition of africa and the great african empires. the huge folklore that is there. .onsters and witches they even have their own vikings. it had nothing to do with scandinavia. i am not trying to write a historical novel. i'm trying to do and invented worlds. resource. that huge

and to be a total geek with it. , almostluenced by film more so than books. , the are things that opening scene of touch of evil can do so much for a novel. i'm influenced by the crime writers. orson welles, alfred hitchcock, the visual language. film has to get its residents from the actuality of the scene. i don't get to tell you a metaphor so you can appreciate it. .harlie rose: thank you

it was a pleasure to have you here. back in a moment. ♪ ♪

word peast: her 5000 in national geographic calls mary the most powerful woman in the world. we are so pleased to welcome her. orth: merry christmas to you. hunt: tell us about these apparitions. there have been 2500 reported apparitions and sightings and appearances of mary. only 16 of those have ever gotten vatican approval to be considered to meet the standards that they consider them to be

real. it doesn't mean the others weren't. al hunt: is always the poor and the crisis ridden. orth: she speaks in their native languages. rwanda she spoke in the language there. sometimes it is reported that she appears so frequently over such a long. of time that the three young women to whom she appeared in rwanda in 1982 to study calling -- just started calling her mama.

hunt: what do scientists say about this? do they say it is hocus-pocus? orth: some people think it is hocus-pocus. millions around the world believe in this. the catholic church itself, which isn't the only religion that believes in miracles, says that you are free to believe it or not. al hunt: you wouldn't instinctively associate rwanda with mary. said they spent time with mary. also foresaw the terrible genocide of the 1990's. mary was a kind of a brown color.

she is breathtakingly beautiful, she is always young and has this beautiful voice. she emanates such radiance of light and love that people are awestruck. she first appeared in this girls boarding school in 1982. there were many other people but the reported apparitions church decided that this is were the ones that they would officially recognize. some of whomesses, i also interviewed. the girls really started crying and they would have these public apparitions and thousands of people, and gather and it was

like a one-way telephone conversation. they could hear with the girls were saying but not was coming back. the girls started crying and said don't show me. she was predicting the rivers of blood that happened 12 years later. you went to lourdes. there are millions who go there. you went with some moroccan afghan wounded war veterans. maureen orth: foras incredible experience may. me. there, sory gathers that the french and germans could get together after world war ii and focus on peace and

focus on justice and human rights rather than war. mary would be the unifying figure. i was there with a group of that wentrriors through the archdiocese of the military. 40% of them were non-catholic. they had a lot of traumatic brain injuries. peace that sense of thatgot from being in place. it was a very humbling experience. were you bathed in the spring waters there? maureen orth: there are volunteers there who help you out of your clothes. there is a picture of the virgin mary. you walk down the steps and you get into the water.

i have always tried to be the very objective reporter. after i was walking out of the water, i got this very calm sense of peace and tranquility. al hunt: there was nothing that surprised me more in this terrific article then that she andelebrated by muslims their more mary citations in the koran that there on the bible. maureen orth: she is known as the holiest woman ever to be born. there is a fascinating nativity birth narratives about how the baby jesus was born. koranngel appeared in the car on be?tells her how can that

if god says is going to be, it is going to be. she is vilified to be pregnant without a man. she goes off into the desert to have a baby by yourself. humiliated she says i would rather die than have to go back like this. as the baby jesus comes out he talks like a man. there is a palm tree and the dates are going to fall. the water comes all around her. she brings the baby back to her community so she can be accepted. see, fascinating to me to when i was in cairo, i met muslim women who have a great deal of love and veneration of

mary. some women go into coptic churches and really create her there. pray to her there. there really are not references in the gospels to marry. we don't know a lot about her. maureen orth: she is only mentioned four times really in the bible. she speaks very little. she speaks with the angel appeared. she speaks in the song of mary. she speaks at the time of christ's first miracle. she tells the servants to do.

the idea that she can intercede with god. religion, you're not supposed to pray to her. you pray to god she can intercede for you. first 10for the centuries she was depicted as rather imperial. then she became the mother, more compassionate. maureen orth: when christianity was declared , only until about the fifth century that she was declared the god bearer. on, monasteries were springing up all over europe. younger and younger

ages were being put into these convents and monasteries. they didn't have their mother with them. this is when mary become much more of a core maternal figure because there was not a mother present area. the figure of god is so distance for some people that the figure of mary is much more comfort and joy. al hunt: can we separate the virgin mary from the mother mary? maureen orth: she is no longer the same as a young innocent virgin who is being told she is going to bear christ. the mary that is at the cross. there's a great deal of wisdom and love in miracles. christmas weng

don't want to be political. i'm going to quote something. the lord has cast down the mighty from their thrones and has lifted up the lowly. the rich he has sent away empty. she makes bernie sanders look-alike ted cruz. maureen orth: pope francis takes a tremendous amount of his teaching from that. blessed are the meek. the fact that she is in the , i don't understand why we not using this as a bridge to the muslim religion to discuss what we have in common. we're supposed to try to come together. figures many political would be as surprised as i was

that the muslims have the feeling that they have towards mary. maureen orth: the reach goes all across centuries. and geography. i went into the university in knew that there was a benedictine priest who has thousands of volumes about mary in a nearby library. will use the books about mary to study. al hunt: some people say this is a beautiful story, but miracles. give me a break. do you believe in miracles? maureen orth:

i have come to see a lot of things. tie started as a skeptical reporter. i am writing for a scientific magazine. i didn't want to be any kind of a pushover. andve seen some things influences on people that i have to think cannot be explained by rational means. al hunt: did you change your view of the church? maureen orth: it has deepened my own sense of spirituality. the church is an extremely imperfect institution that always needs renewing. he decide to do it from within or you don't. that you haveel to be a member of the church to care about mary.

that is one of the most interesting things that i learned in my reporting. said maryin rwanda never once mentioned a religion. it is not about what kind of religion you are. she just asks you to love her as much as she loves us. al hunt: thank you so much for being with us. ♪ ♪

♪ >> welcome to "with all due respect," the christmas eve show. the year is almost over and it has been one of the most exciting years in presidential politics. tonight we will start by recapping the big moments for the leading republican presidential candidates and ponder what they might need to do next to win the white house. we will start with, who else? donald trump. what was his big moment? john: donald trump is a man of big moments. it was his announcement speech.