>> coming this election season, the final film in the wall street trilogy. >> those banks are too much. economic power over the nation. >> wall street will likely last. ess. >> trading capitalism for socialism. >> it is not good. bernie sanders and street.vine take on wall feel the burn. ♪

john: that film is coming soon to a theater near you. you will have an extended preview right here when we talk to bernie sanders and his supporters in a few minutes. first, president obama spoke about his executive actions which would extent background firearmor more ironic ridge e firearm purchases. as he talked about the mass shootings, the president shed a few tears. first-gradersa: -- from every family that ever imagined their family would be taken by a bullet,

every time i think about those kids, it makes me mad. by the way, it happens on the streets of chicago every day. john: president obama having great determination. that is matched by action, effort. what do you think he could get done in his last year in office? mark: i am touched about his motion and proud about his ability to show it. there is no doubt this is a national crisis. by emotion is backed determination but there's nothing that can be done by this. i do think we will have a more robust general election debate

about the issue of how to deal with gun violence more than we have ever had. he has done that through his efforts to change the nature of the current laws. john: i think -- i agree with what you said -- we talked about the way this will be highlighted, especially with the current rate of mass shootings we have seen. i think that was a huge deal. once you ruled out the notion that the can pass laws which -- i agree with you will not happen opponents of time, abortion or advocates of gay marriage, changing hearts and minds is the predicate for changing laws. that is the only way this can happen. mark: it has nothing to do with your views of the second amendment. policies thate addresses gun violence because

the emotion the president showed is because he has been in contact with these families. again, regardless of the policies. sanders is in gotham city. he gave a big speech about wall street reform. he called for the reinstatement institutionseakup that are too big to fail in contrast himself correctly. sanders: secretary clinton says the glass would not have prevented the crisis because banks -- not big commercial banks were the real corpo

culprit. needtary clinton says we to have more fees and regulations on the financial industry. i disagree. [applause] mark: we will talk to senator sanders about his speech today, but now, is what he is proposing good policy or politics? john: i think it is both. it is good policy in the sense of that i think most people frank is stilld too complicated and not strong enough to prevent the promises we had. there islitics because a genuine contrast. hillary clinton is vulnerable. bernie sanders wants to make that as clear as possible. mark: this is an issue where the base of the party agrees with him more.

hillary clinton has fuzzed up the issue and has made it more specific. his campaign knows they need a strong closing argument. i think on the politics, he was right. on the policy, a lot of what he is saying does not appeal to people. needs to make it clear. i'm a little confused. i read material from the campaign. i'm still confused. i give it more of an incomplete. john: we can talk about these very issues. i think part of the thing that benefits him is all those secretary clinton has put forward robust proposals, there's still hearts that people recognize she is close to wall street.

no one quite believes her when she wants to crack down on wall street. because it plays into the narrative about her of distrust, he is right to exploit her. if you're asking me for political advice, i think he should hammer on it. mark: one he speaks about this stuff, he believes it. it comes across his supporters. ago: less than a month before iowa, ted cruz and donald trump are still way out in front of the republicans. the hawkeye state is in many ways becoming a race for the bronze medal. at this moment, who would you say is best positioned to clinch the coveted third ticket? mark: it is pretty much conventional wisdom. in a year of a lot of unpredictability -- ted cruz and donald trump, in some order, first and second by a lot.

i think while third could be important, the big story is cruz and trump north of 25% could take the votes. third may not matter. on couldristie, cars finish third and rubio. i think third may not matter and i can tell you -- cannot tell you. the data says certain things about this right now. one is there is a clear one. if you look at the graphs and polling averages -- in mean something. areld trump and cruz ahead. the person that is ahead is marco rubio. he will have a punishing amount of attacks. mark: less of a turnout operation. john: i agree. he is not in the top two.

bu bush is interesting. bush is best positioned but right now, marco rubio -- at this moment is still it. mark: it marco rubio finishes second in new hampshire, he will ulfill the strategy. watch bush. if it turns out, he may do better to go to answer with momentum. john: the thing about this is the trump phenomenon. i would not be surprised if you won iowa. mark: i would be. john: i think he could win. mark: he has momentum, money and

he is finishing strong. john: we will see about that. coming up, bernie sanders joins us right now in this very studio and much more when we come back. ♪

mark: joining us now is the junior senator from vermont, bernie sanders. before we get started, the show you and everyone else the new cover of bloomberg businessweek. the votes of the

readers of businessweek. have you been on a lot of magazine covers? mr. sanders: the cover of rolling stone. mark: that is about senator sanders. mr. sanders: i would like the votes. we don't expect to get all of them. mark: the magazine will be on newsstands on friday. it will be $5.99. we will get you a free copy. 10 free copies. we want to talk about what you propose and the current environment on wall street. i want you to give me specific examples, current examples. you talked about wall street -- the greed, recklessness and illegal behavior. what is an example of greed on wall street today? mr. sanders: you have wall greed andse recklessness caused the worst economic downturn in the united states, where millions of people

lost their jobs and homes. i've never heard of apology. mark: i understand. it still exists? mr. sanders: of course. mark: when you talk about greed -- is there a specific company? mr. sanders: these guys continue to have huge compensation packages. goldman sachs -- i guess he is a billionaire now -- making huge amounts of money after destroying the economy. mark: that is one example. what is a current example of recklessness? mr. sanders: we have not yet changed. wall street has not changed its business model. in making investing affordable loans available for small and medium-sized i businesses, they have financial instruments which i think has

the potential to have serious harm in the future. mark: again, a current example of illegal behavior. mr. sanders: if i knew it, i would tell the attorney general. no one will argue. maybe you want to argue with me. system looking out for wall street. system looking out for wall street. we don't. since 2009, in a weak regulatory environment, they had to pay fin es for settlements. that is extraordinary. god only knows what would happen if you had strong revelatory environment. mark: what is a law that is being violated? mr. sanders: if i knew that, i would tell the attorney general. i think it is pretty clear to me that we have seen so many fines.

about all the settlements. there are six big financial institutions. is there some that is better in your view or worse? mr. sanders: it is not a question of better or worse. number one, are we in danger once again of too big to fail situation where wall street crashes and the taxpayers have tto bail them out? after we bail out wall street, three out of the four larger -- significantly bigger -- can you explain the sense to that? will we go through this too big to fail situation? second point, six largest financial institutions in this the equivalent of about 50% of the gdp of america. that is $10 trillion. two thirds of the credit cards

and 35% of the mortgages. if teddy roosevelt were alive today, he would say wow, that is too much economic power. we need to break them up. mark: who are the economic thinkers that have influenced your views? bobsanders: i worked with riche. the former secretary of labor. elizabeth warren is a good friend of mine. are the economic writers that have informed your views? i. sanders: i would say believe in the end of the day, churchill downs economics, tax economics,wn it has never worked. raising the minimum wage,

putting the money into the hands of working people -- with more disposable income, they will go out and create more jobs. john: we have a few more seconds, but want to ask you ceos.- talking about 18 mr. sanders: what? john: 18 ceos. etc. dimon, these high-level ceos in the financial sector have gone to jail. ceoshere specific that should have been charged with crimes? mr. sanders: i think when it is pretty clear to me that one of the reasons that -- not just me, many people -- one of the reasons why we were driven into this horrendous economic y wall streetle wal

crashed, is this behavior. here is one thing about him. these guys -- billionaires. of money helped destroy the economy. you know what they say? they say you have to cut social security and medicare and cut medicaid. ceos are there specific you think if you have been president that you would have said that person should be charged? mr. sanders: we should have had the kind of investigation that's 1930's during the instead of what we did. i cannot ast ask the question right now. mark: we have to go to break. you throw around the phrase, crime. you cannot name anyone. mr. sanders: i just gave you 10 examples of banks like citigroup, j.p. morgan chase, goldman sachs whoever paid

fines. mark: a criminal act to go to prison. mr. sanders: people are found guilty of illegal acts if there reaches settlements with the government. what do you think? the point was they have paid $200 billion in fines for illegal activity. do you find that a little strange? now one major executive on wall street has gone to jail or has been prosecuted. i find it a little strange. mark: we have to leave it there. when we come back, we will talk to send your sanders about his o senator sanders about his campaign after this. ♪

john: we are back with senator sanders. i want to go back to wall street reform. hillary clinton attack your proposal before today. she said it is weaker than yours. the ways you think are proposals are insufficient and tell me why you think they are. isue mistaken or shia cap -- she mistaken or a captive for wall street? mr. sanders: i think the proposals are not go far enough. when we see the track record of wall street and seeing it into a massive economic downturn -- when you see the concentration of wealth and power on wall street, i think for two reasons. the need to prevent another bailout and to bring more competition into the financial marketplace suggests what many

people understand -- these huge financial institution has to be broken up. she want to do this, that. the end of the day, yet the you have to bring it back in break up the major financial institutions. john: her husband broke it up. husband -- her did they have wrong ideas or pawns of wall street? mr. sanders: we can say hillary clinton has been a significant recipient over the years of wall street money. we can say her husband was very sympathetic to the idea of deregulating wall street. that is what they believe. not an evil person, that is just the view. i think they create the kind of

economy to deal with companies -- we need a financial system that is much more robust, not as concentrated as it is right now. we need banks to get back to boring business and that is to make affordable loans available to small and medium-sized businesses so they can create jobs. will be see a single-payer health care system before the iowa caucus? far morers: we spend on capital on health care than other people in the nation. we spent three times more than the british -- health care to more people. 50% more than french and more than the canadians. what we will do is come up with a proposal that does two things -- number one, as the united states joined the rest of the industrialized world, guarantee health care to all people? so many people do not have insurance.

huge deductibles keeping them. we pay the highest prices on the world for prescription drugs and far more for health care. we will have a proposal. mark: before iowa. mr. sanders: probably. i will not sway you. mark: will there be new revenues? taxes? mr. sanders: what i want to deal with -- i have seen hillary clinton do this. how will you raise taxes? you're doing away with all private health insurance premiums. if you're paying $14,000, 16 -- i would0 raise the taxes and you would wow. i'm paying less. mark: americans would pay more under bernie sanders? mr. sanders: no one. wow. we have, by far, spending far more by capita.

we need to significantly reduce it. and prescription drugs. john: one quick question on guns -- today, you praised president obama's executive action. is it enough? mr. sanders: i think the president was right. i know him pretty well. i saw him after the shootings in oregon. what he said i think was all that can be said. mark: we have to cut you off. thank you so much. when we come back, we will break down president obama's speech. ♪ we live in a pick and choose world.

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so your sleep goes from good to great to wow! only at a sleep number store... find the lowest prices of the season, going on now. save $600 on the #1 rated i8 bed. know better sleep with sleep number. mark: earlier, we talked about president obama's remarks about gun control. here is how we tried to counter

the criticism that his actions are an affront. president obama: contrary to claims before this meeting -- [laughter] this is not a plot to take away everybody's guns. check, youbackground purchase a firearm. i believe in the second amendment. it is written on the paper. it guarantees a right to bear arms. no matter how many times people iy to twist my words around, talked constitutional law. i know a little bit about this. [applause] i get it. but i also believe we can find ways to reduce gun violence consistent with the second amendment. mark: joining us now to talk

about what the president said, al hunt and our white house reporter and know what all margaret. is that emotion for him in public rare and wide you think he showed it today> ? you don't see president obama tear up but it tends to had to do with issues around an gun violence. they have said the massacre at sandy hook was one of the words, if not the worst days of his presidency. you see a lot of emotion for him. advocatesy speaking, of gun rights issues, president obama will forever be dog with his statement during the 2008 campaign clinging to the guns and his religion.

it is a frivolous battle to convince his critics. john: the president exhibiting a lot of emotion. do you think there is any way beyond what he has done today that he can achieve anything substantial over the course of the next year? don't. i normally, when the president or political candidate cries, that is bad. come to your eyes because of little children being killed, that is quite different. we have seen time and time again. democrats -- certifiably. i think there is still the fear. i don't know it will change the dialogue. let me say, he made one mistake -- i don't understand why they keep saying they are doing this.

they have executive authority. opposition,litical not a violation of the second amendment. they can say we have the executive authority. mark: how much do you think public opinion has shifted on this issue? but the senseit, among most people in politics is it maybe 75-25. it is issue number one or two. the contrast, the democrats we have seen in the 1990's and the brady bill -- look it all the republicans who existed after sandy hook. mild measures. not a single republican was hurt by it. john: let me talk about politics. we had bernie sanders today. franksically said dodd

is a joke. hillary clinton says we can go further than that. the white house, how do people there and the president feels about the fact is most likely democratic potential successors effectively one of the signature achievements of his first term? margaret: not what they want. they are not terribly surprised. president obama, going through this knows that you have to carve out your position. with some irony, the same day this is happening, bernie be talking wants to about guns because from a primary position, his issue is not as good as hillary clinton and he wants to meet the conversation about wall street. when he does, she wants to talk about that. it is give and take. mark: it has been the case for

months but it is still. he must be super well, if not win iowa and new hampshire as we go towards the home stretch. how do you rate his chances? al: i think he has at least a 50% chance to win one of them, conceivably two. even new hampshire and within striking distance in iowa. he has 28 offices, 101 page staff. bernie sanders will not go away no matter how many the hillary people want him to. i don't think he will be the nominee but the notion that after new hampshire yes nothing is crazy. he has massachusetts, colorado, and vermont. 2.5 million contributors. he is not going away. john: you covered the 2008 obama campaign. you know what momentum looks like.

late momentum that president obama had. when you look at this race in iowa, do you see momentum on either case? margaret: you don't see quite the dynamic that you saw with obama when he was so invested in voters.out younnger you see that with the sanders campaign but not the organization at quite the same level. that was something that was phenomenal about barack obama was doing in 2008. mark: al, you said sanders would not go away. would he be enough of a force in a threat in colorado and massachusetts where she cannot turn into a general election? al: i think so. i don't know how long it goes. the money is extraordinary. i think the passion is there.

i don't think he is the nominee. you think the donors keep giving even if he does not does well? al: they will give a lot more if he wins. i don't think they go away. other states like massachusetts -- i think he could do well. he will give her heartburn. mark: thank you both. us inchris matthews joins iowa when we come back. ♪

mark: now it is donald trump

versus hillary clinton. the republican front-runners scarboroughh mark that interview will show tomorrow. he says he will double down. trump: he was not allowed to practice law, settled for a tremendous amount of money. a lot of things going on. have they not backed down? hillary would not respond. mr. trump: i'm just saying this -- it is fair game. i will attack them. if they don't, i will leave it off the table. >> you will say you will only past up bill clinton's history as a possible sexual harasser if she accuses you of being sexist? mr. trump: that is what it was.

it has nothing to do with isis. mark: another big interview, hillary clinton said this with chris matthews in a interview that airs tonight on hardball. >> is this a republican party problem? trump started as a rival on the stage. the president of the united states is one of the bad guys. he snuck into the country and assumed an identity. it is pretty sick. mrs. clinton: i think it is counterproductive. it undervalues our country. when i hear what is coming from the other side -- it is not just one person, there is a net which chamber. divide and conquer. we need to be united. we should not be rewarding people use inflammatory rhetoric, who use the kind of

derogatory comments whether about muslims or mexicans or women or people with disabilities -- whoever it might be. that is not a sign of leadership. that is a sign of showmanship, desperation that should be rejected by the american people. mark: joining us now is chris matthews. do you think hillary clinton is comfortable with where it she in she and her husband sit? chris: she is comfortable that he is a divider. it started with him saying the president is not muslim. he is some sort of identity thief. he was not born in this country, not honolulu. not in fact the person who uses barack obama. guy --s some sort of a

nobody knew in school, did not exist from the mideast. from africa or somewhere. this ethnic charge against muslims, against people of that part of the world is clearly not new. the republican party has not ever sanctioned donald trump for it. she is very comfortable but that, that defense. john: i will do another twist on that same question -- do you think a fight with donald trump is what the clintons want or do you think that is in their best interest to avoid the fight as long as possible? chris: i think trump is very good at getting down the mud. it applies. trump will say anything about a person personally. he even accused hillary of being an enabler. ca thing came

about and she cannot believe it happened. she somehow enabled the whole thing and had to do with the impeachment which is fairly outrageous. it? anybody believe i did think it was great when part of the interview, i think is very new, she talk about how starting in 1998, the embarrassment and a difficult period for her. she talked about building her own political career and how she decided she had to be her own self as a candidate. she went on to new york and n and founders ofrs o welcomed.self

the political career has led to the chance to be president of the united states. she talked very earnestly about the steps that led to that and how she bloomed and rose to the occasion after that very embarrassing period. that is new tonight. mark: you have been around here for a long time. what is your sense about what is on her mind? is you thinking about iowa, sanders, her cabinet? when: when you watch, youre with hillary clinton, know there is a different personality. a much more easy going person. i think you see that in the discussion tonight. she comes off as casual with people. she did not seem to be worried, sweating kind of situation. i think she knows. you are one of the two were three people that could be the next president. the field has narrowed. i think she is comfortable.

looking back to 2008, you are close observer, how she changed as a candidate between that election and this one. better or worse as a campaigner? chris: you know it has been mixed over the years. two steps forward and back sometimes. if you watch her development, in the first debate this year, she was excellent. very well prepared. i think those were the guys that andit -- she was prepared confident. she prepared very well before the house with benghazi.

the second debate, not so well. it is a question of doing homework and being likable. do your homework, be more confident and be likable. i would put her in the final category right now as she behaved in this interview tonight. very confident. mark: thank you. you can see the full interview with hillary clinton tonight on hardball on msnbc at 7:00. when we come back, feel the burn with us. bernie sanders in new york city today after this. ♪

john: we saw a show in midtown manhattan. not hamilton, not star wars -- a more interesting show. bernie sanders of the town hall theater. we showed up early and saw how his supporters are feeling about his chances of being the next president. [cheers] mr. sanders: let me begin by

thanking all of you for being here this afternoon. thank my twin senator, senator james sanders. >> i had very little choice here. i -- uncleous side, sam. looked at somebody who was a fighter. i need somebody who does not flip-flop. >> why did you do that? >> we are working towards the future and not the past. he has the ideas and policies for the future that will benefit, especially working families, low income families. mark: you are more bullish now? tell me why. shown thattes have he knows what he is doing. he is getting more coverage around.

>> everybody i know is leaning to him or voting for him. >> he has nowhere to go but up. the more people learn about him, the more they like him. >> he will kick ass. we are not taking no for an answer. >> the critical thing is the vote for the millennials. mark: do you think the debates have helped him? >> yeah, i do. media isi think social his strong point. the things he does say and brings the topics the light which is why like him. he is bringing topics to the table. mark: what about hillary clinton? >> if he wins iowa and new hampshire, i think he will get the momentum. if he does not win iowa, pass. john: is she a formidable obstacle? >> i think bernie sanders will

win. security. a lot of i think people are starting to question her more. her chances against trump versus sanders' chances are not that great. i think we have to closely evaluate the situation. >> i don't think she is a formidable candidate. mark: he is going to win. >> the house is powerful. mark: do not bet against the house. >> of course, she is formidable. not, if bernie when not in the race, we would consider it really. hillary, however we have bernie.

stillbernie sanders' fans as devoted as ever. quite savvy and showing a sense of momentum, he is back on the upswing. mark: they recognize hillary clinton brings it, but they have been impressed. they are really idealistic about their support for their candidate. john: like trump supporters, they are great media critics. we will be right back with more after this. ♪

4/7.: we are live 2

act birthday to the guy next happy birthday to charlie rose. john: tomorrow, we will that e randyaul, of the ren paul clan. if you're listening to us in washington, d.c., you can now listen to us are 99.1. for now, sayonara. ♪

emily: i am emily chang and you are watching bloomberg west. here is the first news. president obama has used his presidential powers to unveil new restrictions on gun sales. the action which is designed to

bypass congress will focus on that project. during an emotional address, he consisteded up, it is not a block to take everyone's guns away. bernie sanders is ramping up his attack on wall street. elected, theif candidate sat down on bloomberg television with all due respect. mr. sanders: wall street has not changed its business model. instead of investing in making affordable loans available to small to medium-sized businesses, they continue to come up with complicated financial instruments which, i think, as the potential to have serious harm in the future. emily: federal authorities are aeping their distance as national wildlife refuge in oregon.