>> coming this election season, the final film in the wall street trilogy. >> those banks are too much. economic power over the nation. >> wall street will likely less. >> trading capitalism for socialism. >> it is not good. >> bernie sanders and ted devine take on wall street. feel the burn. ♪

john: that film is coming soon to a theater near you. you will have an extended preview right here when we talk to bernie sanders and his supporters in a few minutes. first, president obama spoke about his executive actions which would extent background checks for more firearm purchases. as he talked about the mass shootings, including the one at sandy hook elementary school in 2012, the president shed a few tears. president obama: first-graders -- from every family that ever imagined their family would be taken by a bullet, every time i

think about those kids, it makes me mad. by the way, it happens on the streets of chicago every day. john: president obama having great determination. that is matched by action, effort. what do you think he could get done in his last year in office? mark: i am touched about his motion and proud about his ability to show it. there is no doubt this is a national crisis. his emotion is backed by determination but there's nothing that can be done by this. i do think we will have a more

robust general election debate about the issue of how to deal with gun violence more than we have ever had. he has done that through his efforts to change the nature of the current laws. john: i think -- i agree with what you said -- we talked about the way this will be highlighted, especially with the current rate of mass shootings we have seen. i think that was a huge deal. once you ruled out the notion that the can pass laws which -- i agree with you will not happen -- for a long time, opponents of abortion or advocates of gay marriage, changing hearts and minds is the predicate for changing laws. that is the only way this can happen. mark: it has nothing to do with your views of the second amendment. there has to be policies that addresses gun violence because the emotion the president showed

is because he has been in contact with these families. i will say again, regardless of the policies. bernie sanders is in gotham city. he gave a big speech about wall street reform. he called for the reinstatement of glass steagall. about the breakup institutions that are too big to fail in contrast himself correctly. mr. sanders: secretary clinton says that glass-steagall would not have prevented the crisis because shadow banks like aig and lehman brothers, not be commercial banks were the real , culprit. secretary clinton is wrong.

secretary clinton says we need fees and a few more regulations on the financial industry. i disagree. [applause] mark: we will talk to senator sanders about his speech today, but now, is what he is proposing good policy or politics? john: i think it is both. it is good policy in the sense of that i think most people think that dodd frank is still too complicated and not strong enough to prevent the promises we had. better politics because there is a genuine contrast. hillary clinton is vulnerable. bernie sanders wants to make that as clear as possible. mark: this is an issue where the base of the party agrees with him more.

hillary clinton has fuzzed up the issue and has made it more specific. his campaign knows they need a strong closing argument. i think on the politics, he was right. on the policy, a lot of what he is saying does not appeal to people. he needs to make it clear. i'm a little confused. i read material from the campaign. i'm still confused. i give it more of an incomplete. john: we can talk about these very issues. i think part of the thing that benefits him is all those secretary clinton has put forward robust proposals, there's still hearts that people recognize she is close to wall street. no one quite believes her when

she wants to crack down on wall street. because it plays into the narrative about her of distrust, he is right to exploit her. if you're asking me for political advice, i think he should hammer on it. i think it is to his benefit to do that. mark: one he speaks about this stuff, he believes it. it comes across his supporters. john: less than a month ago before iowa, ted cruz and donald trump are still way out in front of the republicans. the hawkeye state is in many ways becoming a race for the bronze medal. at this moment, who would you say is best positioned to clinch the coveted third ticket? mark: it is pretty much conventional wisdom. in a year of a lot of unpredictability -- ted cruz and donald trump, in some order, first and second by a lot.

i think while third could be important, the big story is cruz and trump north of 25% could take the votes. third may not matter. bush, christie, carson could finish third and rubio. i think third may not matter and i can tell you -- cannot tell you. carson may hold on to more of his both been people suspect right now. john: the data says certain things about this right now. one is there is a clear one. if you look at the graphs and polling averages -- in mean something. donald trump and cruz are ahead. the person that is ahead is marco rubio. he will have a punishing amount of attacks.

mark: less of a turnout operation. john: i agree. he is not in the top two. bu bush is interesting. bush is best positioned but right now, marco rubio -- at this moment is still it. mark: it marco rubio finishes second in new hampshire, he will fulfill the strategy. watch bush. if it turns out, he may do better to go to answer with momentum. -- to go into new hampshire with some momentum. john: the thing about this is the trump phenomenon. i would not be surprised if he won iowa. i would also not be surprised if it comes in fourth in iowa. mark: i would be. john: i think he could win. mark: he has momentum, money and he is finishing strong.

john: we will see about that. coming up, bernie sanders joins us right now in this very studio and much more when we come back. ♪

mark: joining us now is the junior senator from vermont, bernie sanders. before we get started, the show you and everyone else the new cover of bloomberg businessweek. bernie sanders, the votes of the

readers of businessweek. have you been on a lot of magazine covers? mr. sanders: the cover of rolling stone. mark: that is about senator sanders. mr. sanders: i would like the votes. we don't expect to get all of them. mark: the magazine will be on newsstands on friday. it will be $5.99. we will get you a free copy. 10 free copies. we want to talk about what you propose and the current environment on wall street. i want you to give me specific examples, current examples. you talked about wall street -- the greed, recklessness and illegal behavior. what is an example of greed on wall street today? a specific thing you are referring to when you say that. mr. sanders: you have wall street whose greed and recklessness caused the worst economic downturn in the united

states, where millions of people lost their jobs and homes. i've not heard an apology from these guys yet. mark: i understand. it still exists? mr. sanders: of course. mark: when you talk about greed -- is there a specific company? mr. sanders: these guys continue to have huge compensation packages. you have blankfein from goldman sachs -- i guess he is a billionaire now -- making huge amounts of money after destroying the economy. mark: that is one example. what is a current example of recklessness? mr. sanders: we have not yet changed. wall street has not changed its business model. instead of investing in making affordable loans available for small and medium-sized businesses, they have financial instruments which i think has

the potential to have serious harm in the future. mark: again, a current example of illegal behavior. mr. sanders: if i knew it, i would tell the attorney general. here is an important point. no one will argue. maybe you want to argue with me. no really tough system looking out for wall street. we don't. since 2009, in a weak regulatory environment, they had to pay fines for settlements. that is extraordinary. god only knows what would happen if you had strong revelatory environment. mark: what is a law that is being violated? and by whom? mr. sanders: if i knew that, i would tell the attorney general. i think it is pretty clear to me that we have seen so many fines.

about all the settlements. john: there are six big financial institutions. is there some that is better in your view or worse? mr. sanders: it is not a question of better or worse. number one, are we in danger once again of too big to fail situation where wall street crashes and the taxpayers have to bail them out? after we bail out wall street, three out of the four larger -- significantly bigger -- can you explain the sense to that? will we go through this too big to fail situation? second point, six largest financial institutions in this country have the equivalent of about 50% of the gdp of america. that is $10 trillion. two thirds of the credit cards

and 35% of the mortgages. if teddy roosevelt were alive today, he would say wow, that is too much economic power. we need to break them up. that's what i believe. mark: who are the economic thinkers that have influenced your views? mr. sanders: i worked with bob riche. the former secretary of labor. elizabeth warren is a good friend of mine. mark: are the economic writers that have informed your views? mr. sanders: i would say i believe in the end of the day, trickle-down economics, it has never worked. it is a means by which the rich get richer.

i believe in raising the minimum wage, putting the money into the hands of working people -- with more disposable income, they will go out and create more jobs. john: we have a few more seconds, but want to ask you this -- talking about 18 ceos. your office put out a report talking about 18 ceos. mr. sanders: what? john: 18 ceos. who have significantly harmed the economy. you mentioned jamie dimon, etc. these high-level ceos in the financial sector have gone to jail. are there specific ceos that should have been charged with crimes? mr. sanders: i think when it is pretty clear to me that one of the reasons that -- not just me, many people -- one of the reasons why we were driven into this horrendous economic downturn, why wall street crashed, is this behavior.

here is one thing about him. -- about blankfein in particular, which really irk me. these guys are billionaires. they make huge sums of money, and they helped destroy the economy. you know what they say? they say you have to cut social security and medicare and cut medicaid. john: are there specific ceos you think if you have been president that you would have said that person should be charged? mr. sanders: we should have had the kind of investigation that's -- that took place during the 1930's instead of what we did. i cannot ask the question right now. but there are people who can answer it, and we need that information. mark: we have to go to break. you throw around the phrase, illegality crime. , you cannot name anyone. mr. sanders: i just gave you 10 examples of banks like citigroup, j.p. morgan chase,

goldman sachs whoever paid fines. mark: a criminal act to go to prison. mr. sanders: people are found guilty of illegal acts if there -- if they reach settlements with the government what do you , think? the point was they have paid $200 billion in fines for illegal activity. do you find that a little strange? not one major executive on wall street has gone to jail or has been prosecuted. i find it a little strange. mark: we have to leave it there. i hope to talk to you more about that. when we come back, we will talk to senator sanders about his campaign after this. ♪

john: we are back with senator sanders. i want to go back to wall street reform. hillary clinton attack your proposal before today. she said it is weaker than yours. tell me the ways you think are proposals are insufficient and tell me why you think they are. is it because she is just mistaken, or is she a captive for wall street? mr. sanders: i think the proposals are not go far enough. when we see the track record of wall street and driving this country into a massive economic downturn -- when you see the concentration of wealth and power on wall street, i think for two reasons. the need to prevent another bailout and to bring more competition into the financial marketplace suggests what many

people understand -- these huge financial institution has to be broken up. that is not her position. she want to do this, that. that is fine. but at the end of the day, you have to bring back glass-steagall and break up the major financial institutions. john: her husband was the one who abolished glass-steagall in the first place. did they have wrong ideas or pawns of wall street? mr. sanders: we can say hillary clinton has been a significant recipient over the years of wall street money. we can say her husband was very sympathetic to the idea of deregulating wall street. that, i guess, is their philosophy. that is what they believe. that does not make you an evil

person, that is just the view. i think they create the kind of economy to deal with companies -- we need a financial system that is much more robust, not as concentrated as it is right now. we need banks to get back to boring business and that is to make affordable loans available to small and medium-sized businesses so they can create jobs. mark: will be see a single-payer health care system before the iowa caucus? and if so, how will it be paid for? mr. sanders: we spend far more on capital on health care than other people in the nation. we spent three times more than the british, who provide health care to more people. 50% more than french and more than the canadians. what we will do is come up with a proposal that does two things -- number one, as the united states joined the rest of the industrialized world, guarantee health care to all people? you may have seen in the paper recently that there are so many people do not have insurance.

but they are underinsured with these huge deductibles. we pay the highest prices on the world for prescription drugs and far more for health care. we will have a proposal. mark: before iowa. mr. sanders: probably. i will not swear to you on that one. mark: will there be new revenues? taxes? mr. sanders: what i want to deal with -- i have seen hillary clinton do this. how will you raise taxes? what are we forgetting in that discussion? you're doing away with all private health insurance premiums. if you're paying $14,000, and private health insurance premiums, i would raise the taxes and you would say wow. i'm paying less. mark: americans would pay more under bernie sanders? mr. sanders: no one. we have, by far, spending far

more for capita than the people of any other country. we need to significantly reduce it. and lower prescription drugs. john: one quick question on guns -- today, you praised president obama's executive action. you said it helped end the scourge of gun violence in america. is it enough? mr. sanders: i think the president was right. i know him pretty well. i saw him after the shootings in oregon. what he said i think was all that can be said. john: we have to cut you off. thank you so much. when we come back, we will break down president obama's speech. ♪

♪ mark: earlier, we talked about president obama's remarks about

gun control today at the white house. here is how we tried to counter the criticism that his actions are an affront to the second amendment. president obama: contrary to claims by some presidential candidates before this meeting -- [laughter] president obama: -- this is not a plot to take away everybody's guns. you pass a background check, you purchase a firearm. i believe in the second amendment. it is there written on the paper. it guarantees a right to bear arms. no matter how many times people try to twist my words around, i taught constitutional law. i know a little bit about this. [applause] president obama: i get it. but i also believe we can find ways to reduce gun violence consistent with the second amendment.

mark: joining us now to talk about what the president said, to of the pillars of our washington bureau al hunt and our white house reporter and know it all margaret. is that emotion for him in public rare and why do you think he showed it today? margaret: you don't see president obama tear up but it tends to had to do with issues around gun violence. he and his team have said consistently that the massacre at sandy hook was one of the worst, if not the worst days of his presidency. you see a emotion there for him. politically speaking, advocates of gun rights issues, president obama will forever be dog with ged with his statement

during the 2008 campaign clinging to the guns and his religion. he has fought a fruitless battle to convince his critics otherwise. john: the president exhibiting a lot of emotion. do you think there is any way beyond what he has done today that he can achieve anything substantial over the course of the next year? al: no, i don't. normally, when a president or political candidate cries, that is bad. when you cry because tears come to your eyes because of little children being killed, that is quite different. the politics, as we have seen time and time again, are not different. i think there is still the fear. i don't know if he will change the dialogue a bit, but he won't

get anything done. let me say, he made one mistake -- i don't understand why they are doing this. they keep saying they have the political authority. it is the political opposition, not a violation of the second amendment. they can say we have the executive authority. mark: how much do you think public opinion has shifted on this issue? al: a little bit, but the sense among most people in politics is 75-25, but it is issue number one or two. the contrast, the democrats we have seen in the 1990's and the brady bill -- look it all the republicans who resisted after sandy hook. mild measures. not a single republican was hurt by that in the next election. john: let me talk about politics. we just had bernie sanders out here today. about wallpeech

street reform today in which he said basically that dodd frank is a joke. clinton says we have to go further than dodd-frank. the white house, how do people there and the president feels about the fact that his two most likely democratic potential successors are trashing effectively one of the signature achievements of his first term? margaret: not what they want. as the president looks to build his legacy. they are not terribly surprised. gonedent obama, having through this nose, that you have to carve out your position. i would note with some irony, the same day this is happening, want toanders does not be talking about guns because from a primary position, his issue is not as good as hillary clinton's and he wants to meet , the conversation about wall street. when he does, she wants to act like she is also tough on wall

street. it is give and take. mark: it has been the case for months but it is still. he must do super well, if not win iowa and new hampshire as we go towards the home stretch. had you great his chances in those two states? what are those variables? al: i think he has at least a 50% chance to win one of them, conceivably two. even in new hampshire and within , striking distance in iowa. he has no organization out there. he has 28 offices, 101 paid staff. bernie sanders will not go away no matter how many the hillary people think he will. i don't think he will be the nominee, but the notion that after new hampshire is nothing but crazy. he has massachusetts, colorado, and vermont. 2.5 million contributors. he is not going away. john: you covered the 2008 obama campaign.

you spent a lot of time in iowa. you know what momentum looks like late momentum that , president obama had. when you look at this race in iowa, do you see momentum on -- in either case, or in both cases? margaret: i do, but you don't see quite the dynamic that you obama when he was so , invested in drawing out younger voters. you see that with the sanders campaign, but you do not see the organization at quite the same level. that was something that was phenomenal about barack obama was doing in 2008. mark: al, you said sanders would not go away if he did not win the would he be enough of a first two. and a threat in colorado and massachusetts where she cannot turn into a general election? al: i think so. i don't know how long it goes. look at the money. the money is extraordinary. he has almost matched her. i think the passion is there.

i don't think he is the nominee. you think those low-dollar donors keep giving even if he does not does well? al: they will give a lot more if he wins. that is for sure. i don't think they go away. i think caucus states, and some other states like massachusetts -- i think he could do well. i think he can give her heartburn for a couple of months after those two primaries. mark: thank you both. next, chris matthews joins us in iowa when we come back. ♪

mark: checking in now on the

political world's favorite prizefight. the republican front-runners sat down with mark scarborough that that will airview tomorrow. the donald says he will double down. trump: he was impeached. he was not allowed to practice law, settled for a tremendous amount of money. a lot of things going on. >> haven't they back down? hillary would not respond. mr. trump: i'm just saying this -- it is fair game. when they attack me, i will attack them. if they don't, i will leave it off the table. >> you are saying today that you will only bring up bill clinton's past history as a possible sexual harasser if she accuses you of being sexist? mr. trump: that is what it is

all about. that is what it was. it has nothing to do with isis. with isis, she lied. mark: another big interview, hillary clinton said this with chris matthews in a interview that airs tonight on hardball. >> isn't this a republican party problem? trumps arrival on the stage. the president of the united states is one of the bad guys. he snuck into the country and assumed an identity. it is pretty sick. mrs. clinton? i think it is very divisive. i think it is counterproductive. it undervalues our country. we are a nation of immigrants, which you understand very well. when i hear what is coming from the other side -- it is not just one person, there is an echo chamber. it is very troubling to me to try to divide and conquer. a house divided against itself cannot stand. we need to be united. we should not reward people who

use inflammatory rhetoric, who use the kind of derogatory comments, whether about muslims or mexicans or women or people with disabilities -- whoever it might be. that is not a sign of leadership. that is a sign of showmanship, of desperation that should be rejected roundly by the american people. mark: joining us now is chris matthews to talk about his interview with hillary clinton. do you think hillary clinton is comfortable with where she and now facing off against donald trump? chris: she is comfortable that -- in saying that he is a divider. it did not start with this latest ban. it started with him saying the sort oft is some identity thief. he was not born in this country, not in honolulu. not in fact the person who uses barack obama.

he started this years ago. that obama is some sort of guy did nobody knew in school, not exist, is some sort of manchurian candidate from the middle east. from africa or somewhere. this ethnic charge against muslims, against people of that part of the world is clearly not new. the republican party has not ever sanctioned donald trump for it. that is what i was getting into. she is very comfortable but that, that defense. me ask you another twist on that question. do you think a fight with donald trump is what the clintons want or do you think that is in their best interest to avoid the fight as long as possible? chris: i think trump is very good at getting down the mud. trump will say anything about a person personally. he even accused hillary of being an enabler. i don't think anybody thought that she wasn't shocked when this monica thing came about and

she cannot believe it happened. the idea that she somehow enabled the whole thing and had something to do with the impeachment which is fairly , outrageous. does anybody believe it? i did think it was great when part of the interview, which i think is new, when she talks about how starting in 1998, the embarrassment and a difficult period for her. she talked about how she built her own political career and how she decided she had to be her own self as a candidate. not just a supportive spouse. hillary clinton as political figure went on to new york and campaign and found herself welcomed. then becoming a candidate ,erself, and taking the risk certainly her critics would have loved her losing up there.

out of that came her political career, which has led to the chance to be president of the united states. she talks very earnestly about the steps that led to that and how she bloomed and rose to the occasion after that very embarrassing period. that is new tonight. mark: at 7:00 on hardball. you have been around here for a long time. what is your sense about what is on her mind? isn't she thinking about iowa, sanders, her cabinet? chris: when you watch, when you're with hillary clinton, you know there is a different personality there. it is a much more easy going person there. i think you see that in the debate, in the discussion tonight. she comes off as casual with people. she did not seem to be worried, not in any kind of sweating situation. i think she knows. you are one of the two were three people that could be the next president.

the field has narrowed dramatically. i think she is comfortable in that space. back to 2008,hink close observer, how has she changed as a candidate between that election and this one? better or worse as a campaigner? chris: you know it has been mixed over the years. it isn't two steps forward and back sometimes. if you watched her development, in the first debate this year, she was excellent. very well prepared. i think those guys did a great job. she was totally prepared. she was well prepared before the house committee on benghazi. i think the second debate, not

so well. the third debate it is a , question of doing homework and being likable. i think those steps are true in politics. do your homework, be more confident, and you will become more likable. i would put her in the final category right now as she behaved in this interview tonight. very likable, comfortable very , confident. mark: thank you. you can see the full interview with hillary clinton tonight on hardball on msnbc at 7:00. chris, thank you so much. we look forward to watching it. when we come back, feel the burn with us. bernie sanders supporters here in new york city today after this. ♪

john: today mark and i saw a show in midtown manhattan. not hamilton, not star wars -- a much more interesting show. bernie sanders of the town hall theater. we showed up early before his take wall street speech to get an idea of how his supporters are feeling about his chances of being the next president. ♪ [cheers] mr. sanders: let me begin by thanking all of you for being here this afternoon.

and thank my twin senator, senator james sanders. >> once my name was sanders i , had very little choice here. the serious side, i -- actually cousin. uncle sam, we call him for short. actually, i looked at somebody who was a fighter. i need somebody who does not flip-flop. berniejust endorsed sanders, first in the state to do that. why did you do that? >> we are working towards the future and not the past. bernie sanders represents the ideas and policies for the future that will benefit, especially working families, low income families. mark: you are more bullish now? >> yes. mark tell me why. : >> the debates have shown that he knows what he is doing. he is just getting more coverage around the board. >> everybody i know is leaning

to him or voting for him. >> he has nowhere to go but up. john: why do you feel that way? >> the more people learn about him, the more they like him. >> he will kick ass. he is going to win. that is why we are here. we are not taking no for an answer. >> the critical thing is the vote for the millennials. >> there are people making shirts, buttons. mark: do you think the debates have helped him? >> yeah, i do. more so than the debates i think , social media is his strong point. >> it is important that bernie says the things he does say and brings the topics the light , and that is why i like him. he is not necessarily going to win. he is bringing topics to the table. mark: what about hillary clinton? >> if he wins iowa and new hampshire, i think he will get the momentum. >> i think he can't be here, if he does that. >> if he does not win i will, slim at best. john: is she a formidable obstacle?

>> i think bernie sanders will win. that is the bottom line. >> clinton has a lot of history. she is established in the field of politics, but i think people are starting to question her more. her chances against trump versus sanders' chances are not that great. i think we have to closely evaluate the situation. >> i don't think she is a formidable candidate. i think she is just the house candidate. mark: he is going to win? >> the house is powerful. you know what i mean? mark: do not bet against the house. >> right. >> of course, she is formidable. she was not, and bernie were not in the race we would , consider hillary. however we have bernie. ,♪ john: bernie sanders' fans still

as devoted as ever. quite savvy, and definitely feeling a sense of momentum, he is back on the upswing. mark: also realistic. they recognize hillary clinton brings it, but they have been impressed. they are really idealistic about their support for their candidate. john: like trump supporters, they are great media critics. they think the media has stacked the deck against their guy. we will be right back with more after this. ♪

mark: we are live 24/7. , the republican

party and the baseball hall of fame. also, happy birthday to the guy next door, charles rose. john: on tomorrow's show, we zza from wu-tang clan. if you're listening to us in washington, d.c., you can now listen to us on 99.1. until tomorrow, for mark and me sayonara. , ♪

rishaad: it's time to take out the christmas tree. this is "trending business"". ♪ rishaad: asia-pacific stocks thirding losses, down a day, yuan down. china's biggest homebuilder tumbling.

we have sony slumping. sony has decided not to defend its place in the market. follow me on twitter. jakarta.nderway in let's get the flavor of what is going on there. who has their hats on? >> the bears. up until 45 minutes back, the bulls put in a fighting chance. we had the pboc pointing out risk of their, setting the reference rate weaker, pushing up dollar. 6.5393 is your level now. headline was the big