john: i'm john heilemann. mark: and i'm mark halperin. "with all due respect" to north korea, your latest claim is kim jong un-believable. ♪ tonight,our playlist you have a friend in me. tuneirst, "o, canada" the donald trump is sort of humming about ted cruz. in an interview with the washington post, the paper asked him about the white house eligibility of cruz, who was born and not in the u.s., the

land of our neighbors to the north. trump responded by saying that other people have raised that concern about cruz. while he did not make the claim himself, he also did not take the opportunity to swat it down. trump repeated it in an interview that aired today. >> there is a legal mind on the conservative side that has been sagging that -- been saying that he has concerns that ted cruz may not be qualified to be president of the united states because of where he was born. something you have talked about before with barack obama. something i suspect we will be hearing about in the next couple weeks. is there any validity to those claims? mr. trump: i hope it's not the case. i hope that won't be a problem for him. i guess everybody is talking about it now that he is doing better. i think they are looking at it, and it's a problem for him and obviously for the republicans.

let's assume he got a nomination and the democrats bring suit. s tosuit takes 2-3 year sto s solve, so how do you run? but certainly a concern, i'm not-- mark: cruz left off the video by tweeing a video of the fonz from "happy days." cruz leaned on his law school degree from harvard to believe why he does not believe this issue will be a legal obstacle. cruz: the child of a u.s. citizen born abroad is a natural born citizen. to makeill continue political noise about it. but on a legal matter it's quite straightforward. i would note it has occurred many times in history. john mccain was born in panama,

but a natural born citizen because his parents were u.s. citizen. barry goldwater was born in arizona before arizona was a state, and yet he was a natural born citizen because his parents. had citizenship as a legal matter, the question is quite straightforward. mark: i believe that guy got an 'a'in constitutional law. speaking in binary terms, is the over or hasetente it continued? john: over! ted cruz is now squarely in donald trump's sights. he is fanning the flames on this issue. once the birther, always a birther. mark: we are so in a disagreement zone on this. trump is probing. he may eventually want to go

after him. what he's finding is that this thing is not catching fire. this is not the end of the detente. this is probing. this is like north and south korea on the border, looking with binoculars. john: when you take the biggest club out of your bag and take a swing at your biggest rival-- mark: it's not. john: he got himself into the political arena with barack obama. it's the birther club. he likes that club. whether you want to say that trump is trying to figure out where cruz'weak spot is so that he can drive the shiv intuit, that's not -- shiv in to it, that's not a detente anymore. mark: given the fight with cruz in iowa, he could be running negative ads. he is simple probing and testing if there is a future line of argument if you wants to end that detente. john: i'm not saying we are at

the nuclear war -- thermonuclear war yet. but it is a hot war. the ted cruz birther issue is just one noise in 2016. for the sake of drama, we are calling this 2016 wars. we are here to keep you up-to-date on the opposition research floating around this galaxy, with the fight in iowa not so far far away. first target, ted cruz. donald trump, as we just mentioned, is fanning the flames, other just said, about his eligibility for the presidency. he says cruz is a copycat on immigration. rick santorum and mike huckabee are challenging cruz'conservative essentials. people targeting chris christie.

jim k-6 calling him a failed governor. rubio saying that his record in new jersey is not so great, and all of the political scandals suffered has made him unelectable. like rubio, trump likes to compare christie with president obama. john: on now to marco rubio. the cruise campaign, captain rubio is "weak and juvenile." rubio also said that should resign from the senate from missing votes here. rubio's allies are saying that jeb bush is flailing and desperate. bush is getting mud thrown at him from jeff e-cig josh -- john kasich. mark: chris christie flat out dismisses john kasich as i non-threat in the race. jeb bush saying that he had abandoned his followers on obamacare. christie tried to convince

voters that trump is a carnival barker, all style, no substance. calling him a buddy of the clintons. aall of these attacks are from both the candidate and their supporters, including opposite super pacs. john: these are a lot of attacks, no doubt about that. given the scale of this intergalactic battle being wag ed, what would it take for a candidate be damaged by any of these negative ads? mark: normally you can break through. it's possible some of these attacks are working. based on my sense of where things are, these things are not working. they are throwing candidate offs, but there are so many of them, and none of them have been devastating. there is nothing on the scale of like when trump has taken down people in the past. john: let's go back to 2012,

whenin the fall of 2012, mitt romney went after newt gingrich, they pummeled him from november through december. for only about 4-5 weeks. but in the course of the time it took him from the front runner to be fifth in iowa. that was a huge example about how negative at can take out someone with a negative -- negatives ads can take out someone with a lot of baggage. large, 2015 so positive. they are now flooding the market with pent-up negative ads. now voters cannot make heads or tails. mark: in order for these things to break through, you need to seinforce paid media or tweet with the candidate or a major surrogate driving the message. it has to be breaking through.

the ads against john kerry were reinforced by tons of news coverage. these get episodic coverage for a day and a half. they talk about it on network, but they are not dominating the conversation. none of these attacks have been silver bullet. fieldyou have this giant with one guy that gets most of the attention. not only do they have to be reinforced by surrogates and media, but they also needed to reinforce some pre-existing character flaw. something in a narrative that is already out there. the gingrich example is a good one. -flopper, vacillating, that kind of thing. for a lot of voters, these candidates are not distinct enough. there's not enough quality education about their history that the ads can drive a

message. mark: you have to wonder are there any of these major campaigns sitting on opposition research? some kind of silver bullet that the candidate can really drive in and breakthrough. my guess is, one of them is. [laughter] john: i would really like you to say who that one is. mark: next, was poised with the endorsement playoffs of 2016. later, our conversation with windpipe -- rand paul's wife. and yes, rza of the wu-tang clan. ♪

john: as marco rubio's super pac had a new ad featuring trey gowdy. rubio picked up another capital endorsement.

add that to the endorsement scoreboard. let's catch up. chris christie and john kasich collected an impressive list of circuit in new hampshire. -- list of surrogates in new hampshire. jeb bush' campaign has trotted establishment republicans.we asked the trump campaign for a list of their most notable endorsements. the resource from the spokeswoman "if endorsement mattered, jeb bush would be in first place." endorsements matter a lot historically. does anybody have enough endorsements/surrogates to make a real dent into voting? mark: the most difference has been made by cruz. those in iowa with really symbolic resonance. kasich has people in new answer

that will help him. at the lackamazed of endorsements breaking through as surrogates. it's one thing to get one day coverage of an endorser, maybe a tour of an early state. you think about ad campaigns and candidates having somebody that is a great surrogate. someone that can really drive the message and beatty bad cop. -- be the bad cop. john: in general, the value of endorsements in the aggregate is meaningful. at least in the republican politics historically. it meant that you had the establishment behind you. in this race, that rule has been tossed out the window, as we have seen and polling. in individuals, the value of those endorsements have gone down over time. there are so many surrogates out in the world that is hard to find one that breaks through.

the real question that i have is who is still out on the table? who could you get in the next month that might matter? john: in new hampshire, mccain would matter. i think there are still some religious conservative leaders, some of whom in-line to endorse cruz. hugeecessarily people with national reputations. but they have a real resonance in iowa. john: also in the establishment lane, there are some other people. powelll -- colin coming out in a republican primary and confirming an endorsement on this establishmentarian. in the longer term, it might be. is soishing dominance fragmented. someone.to think of

mark: if senator grassley, joni ernst had endorsed. it's an interesting question. there are a bunch of establishment people who can endorse. if they are worried about cruz or trump winning. john: that is one of the big questions. especially if this comes later in the cycle -- do a lot of these establishment endorsers togetherdecide to band and jump behind one candidate? mark: one thing they do in a lot of cases is raise money. if trump and cruz come out of new hampshire in march with enough momentum to do well, then

i think you could see a bunch of establishment people with the ability to raise money rally behind them. bush, kasicho, christy, they all need fundraising. john: they needed to break out of that pack. kelly paul, and rza, but first, the editor of "commentary" magazine. we will be written back. -- right back. ♪

tary" the editor of "commenar

magazine is harder to book then your average presidential candidate. he discusses with us many things, including donald trump. thank you for coming, happy holidays, happy new year. your fellow new yorker donald trump, how is he doing? than thanly better anybody on earth could have possibly anticipated. i have no idea how he will do a month from now, which is the key question. any friends have voting for donald trump? john: i have two. mark: what do they like about him? john: he is no-nonsense. he's not politically correct. everyone is so stuffed up and afraid to speak their mind. mark: i will ask you one more trump question.

have you, over the last 3 months, looking at trump's issue, warmed at all to the notion of him as the party's nominee? john:, additionally -- i'm not officially in the public and. -- officially a republican. on just a humble editor. mark: as an american-- john: no, i find it even more alarming. trump that alarms me. the question is whether the nation has moved into a period in which this candidacy is thinkable. that is what worries me. but it's who he is. he said yesterday, "i'm a messenger." i think that is right. he has not done anything -- in

previous cycles, a guy like him would be cut off at the knees months ago. it is the change in the nature of the country, may be the nature of the party that have led to this. john: it seems to signify -- you are a conservative. what does it say about the conservative movement that this man could dominate the party over the course of a year? says that ank it bunch opf strains in the party have come together in the last 35 years and have emerged in a

kind of stew. you can see little chunks of that stew in every piece of his agenda, to the extent that he has an agenda. "we needed to win, not lose." " we are just politically correct, we don't say what we think." "we are losing everywhere and everything is a disaster and we need a businessman that i can be a leader." these are sort of cartoonish versions of serious ideas that have been promulgated over the last 37 years. they have extended into a caricature. the answer that the primaries will address is that whether the party has become a character itself were not. john: he has spent a decent amount of time in the last week bringing up the question related to bill clinton in his personal past that many people find unsavory.

there has been an interesting back-and-forth between him and the clinton camp. is that smart politics for any republican? to go after bill clinton on the question of his past in the personal sphere? guest: i don't think anyone but he would have done it. he's driven by a different set of objectives. his objective is to shock, to flash. you know, shock jock. focus attention on him by saying something that will alarm you, the media establishment, get them to jump and jolt and say, "is this really what people want to talk about?" then he gets to defend it and everybody else has to respond to it. it's the perfect way to drive the news agenda. no one has ever done it this way before and he has clearly established new rules.

mark: you think the problem is , the party ine general will just lay off bill clinton? guest: probably. mrs. clinton is the issue. that is how it is going to be. i don't think anyone has talked about bill clinton until now, for years. issue,for the foundation which is a serious issue. bill until theut cows come home whether ot r not he should have earned speaking fees. but not about 1998, that is 18 years ago. mark: i will give you a hypothetical. you wake up in the morning after the primary, iowa and new hampshire have been won by accommodation of ted cruz and donald trump. -- won by a combination of ted

cruz and donald trump. what happens then? guest: jeb bush would be hard-pressed to stay in. i don't think he would want to deal with the simulation of taking this further -- the humiliation of taking this further. nobody else except rubio and maybe carson would drop, because they would be out of money and there would be no place for them to go. rubio will stay in as long as he those circumstances to see if the dynamically change. up be in awould end 3-4 man race. mark: if trump and cruz finished first and second in iowa and new hampshire, is it possible to have a two-person race? guest: sure. what we don't know, because it's

weekss from iowa and 5 from new hampshire -- everything is positioned this way. trump his first, cruz second, rubio is third. rubio seems to be solidifying second in new hampshire. this is the status quo as of now. their will be' things happening. people have not historically made their minds up until 2-3 days before. mark: we have to go. we only barely scratched the surface. when we come back, rand paul's wife kelly paul. you can join us on bloomberg 99.1. we will be right back. the only way to get better is to challenge yourself,

and that's what we're doing at xfinity. we are challenging ourselves to improve every aspect of your experience. and this includes our commitment to being on time. every time. that's why if we're ever late for an appointment, we'll credit your account $20. it's our promise to you. we're doing everything we can to give you the best experience possible. because we should fit into your life. not the other way around. john: joining us now is someone knows rand paul so well, it is

almost like they live together. campaignind her on the trail in iowa. kelly paul, thanks for coming back on the show. kelly: thank you for having me. john: we have seen donald trump taking the lead on attacking donald trump, by -- by attacking hillary clinton, by attacking her husband. you are the lead on this issue. you said invoke -- you said in "full" magazine that this was predatory and offensive to women. let me ask the question. do you think hillary clinton should be held accountable for the actions of her husband? kelly: absolutely not. my remarks at a time pertained a lot to the democratic party and what i thought was a hypocrisy within the party regarding his actions at that time. wholeeople talk about the monica lewinsky thing, they say it is an affair or it is just sex, but it is different when

you have a 22-year-old intern. 22-year-old has spent their life as a parent,dults their parents friends, their college professor. are anour first job, you intern. i do not consider the ap relationship to be -- ap or relationship -- a. relationship. whatever you want to call it, i think most of corporate america, you would be fired for it. it always bothered me that the party, who lost bill clinton, just wanted to sweep that under the right. he is an advocate for his wife at a spokesman for her, so it is her name. you do not think she should be held accountable for the ashes of her husband. kelley: nonaccountable. it was not her behavior or her actions. why is it ok for -- for him to be attacked in the context of her campaign? because he is her

spokesperson and they have advocated for easier ways to sue in the request for sexual harassment. basically they have always said, buy one, get one free in terms of politics. john: do you feel like your personal life is fair game is another candidate came after your husband, based on the past, that that is all fair in the campaign context? thaty: it may be fair, but it may not be fair, but that is the way it is in politics. john: so you are ready for it? kelley: i guess. my favorite was the reagan library today. it is obviously an incredible venue. it was such a small venue. i was literally three feet from rand. being that close to the

feeling the energy in the room, and my husband being the only , being moree stage reasonable and new us and making the point that he was making, i was proud of him. i was proud that he had an opportunity to be out there and be outspoken on issues that he has brought a lot of attention to. mark: four years from now, win or lose, is a potential candidate came to you and said we have younger kids, there are downsides to this commission must also run or not, your current posture would be what? kelley: i will take you back to my own decision-making. it is hard. you put yourself in the spotlight and you are open to the slings and arrows everyone will throw at you. that is why i have a lot of trepidation about it in the end, i do not like to make my decisions based on fear. if i think of myself or my husband has something substantive, something meaningful, a voice no one else is getting on the right or the rand to bet toed

given that. do not hold back because you are afraid. john: you sent this morning they really missed that you said this morning that your least favorite part is watching the tv. what are the things that have upset about you -- what are the things that have upset you? kelley: i think the last debate where i thought rand was that all, he spoke for 10 minutes so he was in the middle of the amount of speaking time on that debate, and really raising the issues. everyone on that stage was a cookie-cutter. no, i will do a no-fly zone, no, i will shoot down the russian planes. the only part of you that is different on that stage, he is pointing out the mistakes we have made in the past without foreign policy. thatreating these vacuums have been taken over with isis and the rise of radical islam.

he is the only person saying that. the next morning everyone is talking about, do you see rubio and cruise going after each other? know how toreally talk about rand paul. that is what frustrates me, but he has made the most salient points out there. at that point i started to yell a little bit at the tv. my son was like, mom, if you yell what about rand paul one more time, i am leaving. mark: there were spirited debates about national security and other issues. if you were serving strictly as a political strategist, not just a spouse to one of the candidates, where our ted cruz's vulnerabilities? kelley: i cannot speak to that. mark: sure you can. all right, twist my arm a little bit. in many cases, he has appropriated some of rand paul

past positions, and that he wants it both ways. was outspoken about the nsa, ted cruz was there saying i am for that. now he parents the other side saying i voted for it because it will allow us to collect more records and become even more invasive. mark: so what is the perfect ad -- against ted/" cruz, two-faced?" rza. when we come back, ♪

john: everyone has rituals. for us, there is when we take seriously. every day we listen to the wu tang clan. we have to because rza composed a piece on -- composed a theme song for this program. we spent time with him to talk matter,sic, black lines donald trump, and march rally -- kreli. boughtlso the one who their album. he paid $2 million for the album in november, so naturally i had to start with rza by asking his thoughts on one of his most

notorious fans. what kind of idea to get off the we when you met him? rza: talked briefly about where he what wu tangout means. at this thing with moma when we played 12 minutes and he was in our audience. the music.njoyed --he was a guy in college or could not get it. john: so he advised the record and bloomberg businessweek does the story. you found out a little bit more about the guy, that he had jacked up the prices of hiv drugs, and subsequent to that, charged with securities fraud. is all the stuff that happened since then. you put out a statement to the

magazine saying when we get into this agreement, it was before i knew anything about the stuff, that i do not know anything about this, right? and he said about you that you were arrogant and he had given you a bunch of money and i would encourage you to shut the [beep] [beep"t he actually his doesn't stink. that is what he said about you. rza: that is a little hostile. having an idea and see it growing to fruition. , itar as me being arrogant depends on what day you catch me. i can be arrogant, but most important, respect me because i am down to earth. john: let's say he ends up going to jail for securities fraud.

does it bother you that he has that copy of the record yet it is like he is talking people, i bought the one copy, i am not even going to listen to the damn thing. rza: i can never discriminate. if the most greatest man in the world was the one who wanted to possess it, if my enemy came to o, auction and was like, y i want that picture of ri ca, i could not -- of rza, i could never throw darts at it. i could never discriminate or appreciate art. john: is there anyway for more of the world to hear this record ? rza: if you wanted to be

philanthropic, he could do something that would allow more people to hear the record. if he concurs to that, that would be good for our and for the wu-tang clan fans. year, one oflast the political movements that had blackst energy has been lives matter because of all of the stuff happening in a lot of cities with police brutality and wrongful deaths and so on. when using the movement taking shape, what do you think of that? of course black lines matter. all lights matter. i am not going to -- all lives matter. i do not think it is necessary -- for, if i am in law enforcement, and i wanted to be in law enforcement as a kid. "beretta," "starsky and hutch,"

that was cool. john: which one did you want to be young ? rza: it depended. days, a cop, you let him in the house and you give cookie and milk. now, yell. all lives matter. i love what the police do for our society. i love the idea of it. as long as those who are upholding that idea, they are a benefit to society. for those who lose that focus, you know what i mean, whether it is through fear or stress or not being properly trained and they are allowed to go in the streets , how can you enforce law if you do not understand law? but when you think about some of the brothers who are being brutalized by the police, you

also have got to have them take . look in the mirror if i am a cop and every time i see a young black brother, i watch him on tv or movies or just see them hanging out and they are not looking properly dressed, properly refined, conducting themselves the proper hours of the day, things that a man does, you know what i mean, you are going to have a kind of fear. that is what i tell my sons. if you are going somewhere, you do not have to wear a hoodie. live in new york, so please are good and all that. but enough your shirt. you are a young man, not a little kid. that is another big issue we have to look into, the image that we portray that could a fear into a white

officer or to any officer. you do not support trump at all, but you like tromp on some level you like trump on some level because you are a new yorker and he is a new yorker. what do you think, that he is such a big deal right now? rza: donald trump has always been a smart man. when he had a problem, he came back stronger. he is a smart dude. if mr. trump -- is mr. trump good enough to be the president of the united states? that is something you have to measure against other presidents. does he have all the qualities -- education? one thing about barack obama that we can all agree is that the man is highly intelligent, a great speaker. what i allow mr. trump to run my company? yes. i would love that. what i support him till run my country?

bet on not make a sure that because i do not see those qualifications. americaomebody tells me is nothing but a big company. john: that is a theory. but you like the way he talks, though, right? it! you talk, hey, move trump keeps it real. somebody like hillary clinton being as our next president, i'd like that again when you think about the history and trajectory of our country on the beginning of the founding. we see a black man as a president, that means a lot in this country, you know what i mean? and then a woman as a president, to me that is a 1-2 punch. we are living out justice,

equality, pursuit of happiness, and we are not discriminating who is qualified to be the best person for the job. john: the show, "with all due respect," has been on the air for a little over a year. a lot of people do not know that you did the music for the show. every day we do the music and it does what we wanted to do, it gets us pumped up for the intros and our chosen all that stuff. when we came to you and said make this music, that the show is called "with all due respect," what do you think about writing a piece of music for a show with that name? respect thehad to five of what you guys were doing. i saw the trailer. one of the producers had a request for a certain sonic. a run dmc sonic or something. i thought i would try to write something like that.

i watched the trailer -- you know what? that is cool, but i think this is something that really is a valid idea. something you would like more. that was my stride. john: that was beautiful. that worked out really well. our thanks today and every day. up next, what happens outside trump tower. , play us out. ♪

mark: you have to imagine donald trump fancies this.

-- set yourliament be -- set your dvr to bbc news on january 18 to listen to that bloody mess. in the meantime, our residents set up camp outside trump tower in manhattan to check out all the people who visit this landmark building and what is now something of a tourist trap. griffin ran into a few birds and blokes from across the pond. a couple york city blocks south of central park, 700 and 5 5th avenue, trump tower, sees a lot of foot traffic from tourists. with myon a vacation friends from waverley, texas. >> where are you from? >> jacksonville, florida. >> ground zero. >> the statue of liberty. >> the shows. visit trump tower. do you consider trump tower

one of those tourist things? >> absolutely. we are actually answering that entering tiffany's next door. we wanted to see what it was like. >> i did not go in there. it was "the. >> what other presidential campaign headquarters where you visiting? >> hillary clinton. >> anyone know where to find her office? >> no. >> no idea. >> no clue whatsoever. >> if the republican front runner gets all this tourist attention, surely the democratic -- destination wise, it is just not a fair fight. >> it is very classical and very well done.

we rode the escalator up to the gardens, level four and level five. if he were to become president, would he still be selling his books? >> who knows? a very rich man. a very large presence. know much about him, to be honest with you. >> i like him. >> he is very smart, very strong. >> he is not politically correct. prompting, i am not hearing a lot of political chatter. i am hearing, hey, trump tower. i have got to get a picture of this. a lot of people stop in for starbucks. it is certainly unique. >> you would not go into london

and find david cameron's tower and david cameron hats. that would not happen in the u.k. john: got to love that building. we will be right back. ♪

john: tomorrow will will be with ted cruz. and former carson campaign manager mr. barry bennett. you are watching us in washington, d.c. on 99.1.isten to us until then, thanks for the cheesecake and say ionara. ♪ we live in a pick and choose world.

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so your sleep goes from good to great to wow! only at a sleep number store... find the lowest prices of the season, going on now. save $600 on the #1 rated i8 bed. know better sleep with sleep number. emily: i am emily chang. the house has passed a partial repeal of the affordable care act.

vote wasy partyline 240-181. it is the first time the bill will end up on the president's desk. the senate already passed the measure. the bill would defund planned parenthood, but president obama .as promised to veto it north korea says it successfully tested a powerful hydrogen bomb. u.s. officials are not so sure. they claimed they detonated the weapon this morning. josh earnest says the data is not consistent with north korea's claims. the security council says it will begin work on new sanctions . the house investigation into the 2012 attacks in benghazi is heating up again with testimony from the first up of two top military and intelligence officials. david trias was intewe