carol: welcome to bloomberg "businessweek," on radio and television. i am carol massar. david: i am david gura. coming up, contributor joel stein gives us the lowdown on the bernie sanders campaign. carol: and a war on salt. david: and timely advice on how not to get sick at work. we go behind the latest issue, right here on bloomberg radio and television. ♪ carol: we begin this week with the presidential campaign of bernie sanders.

the vermont senator is taking on hillary clinton for the nomination, definitely making himself heard. david: he made a speech in new york city, and on "all due respect." bernie sanders: are we in danger, once again, of a too big to fail situation, where the taxpayers have to bail them out? here is the irony. there are few people who know this. after we bailed the banks out, three out of the four are significantly bigger then they were when we bailed them out. carol: joel stein wrote the cover story. he joins us on the phone from los angeles. joel, this is not your typical presidential candidate or hopeful. what was he like? what was your mission in writing the story? joel: the mission was for "businessweek readers" -- he is kind of the boogie man. it was to look deeply at him,

see how secure people should be, at least for "businessweek" readers. in person, i have never interviewed anybody in my life, or met anyone, including like athletes and violinists who are so dedicated to one thing. he only cares about wealth inequality. there is not much else he is really interested in, not only politically, but in life. he is what you think. he is like -- i am jewish. he is normal for me, somewhere between my parents and grandparents. a grumpy, likable, old, jewish hippie. david: politicians today spend so much time crafting their story, making sure they are conveying to the electorate their sense of who they are, how they want to be portrayed. this is not a guy very much concerned with that at all. joel: he is so annoyed about any question about his personal life. he throws in one paragraph of bio into his hour-long speech,

and kind of mumbles through it. he has a very interesting life story. he is just not interested in it. he cannot make other people interested. now, in his campaign ads, they have a couple of pictures of where he grew up. but, yes, he is not interested in talking about that at all. he wants to talk about numbers, issues. carol: you play this out in the story, joel. even people who have known him for a long time, friends of his, do not really know who he is. which is interesting. joel: i was talking to a senator from the right who really likes him. he was kind of singing his praises in a really interesting, nice way. and i asked him, as i ask everyone, what else is he interested in? and he said, you know, i never thought about it. but everybody i talk to will talk about football, and i have never talked to him about anything else. i have known him for 25 years.

i don't even know if he has a wife or grandkids. it is just not what bernie sanders would bother talking about. david: he has been in a politics for a long time, as mayor of burlington in vermont. in congress, the senate. why is he enjoying such success? what is resonating at this point in time so widely? jolt: i talked to robert reich about this. because wealth inequality has become such an issue, growing so rapidly, anyone who kind of took of the occupy movement beliefs would have gotten these kind of crowds, these kind of donors. he thinks elizabeth warren may have done even a little better. i disagree. because bernie sanders looks like someone at an occupy rally. you know, he does not care about his hair. he is crumpled. he is so fiery and angry. i think he became the kind of perfect vehicle for all of that

anger that you see on the left and the right. and you see it in the donald trump supporters, the tea party. i think he embodies, physically, that kind of anger at wall street. carol: also, you put in your story -- you talk about this one kind of message that he is really trying to go after. he is really struggling with all of the inequality that is out there. i think that is something that is really timely, right? coming out of the financial crisis, for the american people at large. joel: he became a very national figure. he is weird, but it is such a big deal. carol: did you really say he is weird? joel: he is very weird. but it is a weird political story. a guy that started out as a socialist -- he did not start as a local community organizer, although he did that in college, you know, at the university of chicago. but then he comes to vermont,

and runs for governor and then senate and then governor and then senate. as a socialist, third-party candidate, he got 4% of the vote. he runs for mayor of vermont, wins by 10 votes because it is a four-way race. this guy should never have won any election. it was such a big deal when he became mayor of burlington, vermont, which was even a less significant city there. it is a national story. they elected a socialist to be mayor? this is a national joke. he was in "doonesbury." and he did a pretty good job as mayor, and then started thinking about a third-party run for congress. he served for 16 years, and then the democrats backed him as he ran for senate. this is not the way a person is elected in this country. david: let me ask you about this campaign. you write it is a mom and pop campaign. you look at the numbers, he has raised tens of millions of dollars. that is besides the point.

look at how many people have given, way more than any other candidate. joel: if you remember, when he declared he was running, it seemed like no one was going to run against hillary clinton. and when he, the socialist in the senate, decides to run, it seemed so ridiculous and fringe. he has gotten more donations that any candidate, including sitting presidents, at this point in the election cycle. he has almost as much money raised, if you do not count the super pacs, as hillary. and he has a lot more donors than she has. and his crowds are huge. no one, including trump, is attracting the amount of people to the rallies that he has great in some places -- 30,000, 25,000. carol: we just have 15 seconds here. what do you think the voting public should know about him, having spent time with him? quickly. joel: he is totally authentic, speaks from his heart.

he speaks about inequality. or if you would be a good leader, the answer is no. this is all he cares about. david: thank you very much. joel stein joining us from los angeles. you can read his story in the latest issue, featuring bernie sanders. it is online and on newsstands. carol: we will tell you about a disciple of ralph nader, behind the war on salt, when bloomberg "businessweek" on radio and television returns. ♪

carol: welcome back. i am carol massar.

salt -- and we definitely love it. david: yes, i certainly do. but a restaurant group sued new york city, calling for chain restaurants to post warnings on food. carol: the national restaurant association said the city overstepped in this week's edition of bloomberg "businessweek." john gozzi joins us in our studio. talk to us about this war on salt, an interesting crusader is involved. john: we wrote about a guy named michael jacobson, the head of a group in washington that is pressing the fda to set limits on how much salt food companies can add into processed food. they have been actually trying to get these sodium levels installed for years now -- 40 years. carol: 40 years? david: he is a disciple of ralph nader. i know the government has some guidance, but many of us exceed

what they recommend. but there is no limit placed on any of these companies that make food. john: that is the issue here. for a long time, health authorities have recommended that people consume less sodium. the target is about 2.3 grams per day, about one tablespoon -- excuse me, teaspoon of salt. now, we all almost universally eat significantly more than that. and it is not because we are adding it at the table. it is generally because it is baked into the food -- the processed food, the restaurant meals that we all eat. the idea is that if you want to lower salt consumption across the board, you have to start at the pie. and get food manufacturers to agree to lower the sodium in their product. carol: i thought that was interesting in your story. even though we have become more aware of what we are eating, the salt intake has not really changed much.

it has gone up. so, what does he want specifically here? john: jacobson and his group have asked the fda to remove salt from ingredients generally recognized as safe. that sort of paved the way for the agency to limit how much you can put into a product. what is more realistic, what the fda has actually talked about for several years, is creating voluntary limits that the food industry would adhere to. so, it would not be mandatory, but it would be saying here are the standards for -- you can put x amount of salt in this product. you can tailor it to the category of food. and then, the sort of baseline for most, so the entire industry can work off of that. that, over time, the standards

could be generally ratcheted down to sort of lower the overall salt intake, without having any one company act first. because they're all afraid to. david: campbell's soup tried to scale back how much salt was in there. consumers did not like it. john: campbell made a lot of headlines about this a few years back, trying to offer healthier options, lowering the sodium content. they reversed course in a lot of ways, responding to the preference. one of the things that happens is that people get kind of accustomed to a high level of salt in their food. it is hard to, you know, back away from that once. health authorities have recommended to sort of slowly try to lower the levels in our food. carol: walmart is moving ahead with trying to desalinate their products. john: a lot of products -- a lot

of companies recognize the issues consumers care about. they know that too much sodium in the diet is harmful. and they want to be seen as responsive. so, walmart and other food retailers, manufacturers have taken steps publicly to offer low-salt options. and sort of have those available to consumers, to lower the sodium in their products. but i think that health authorities have kind of come to the conclusion that it you leave it up to voluntary action, we have been trying that for 40 years, it has not been very effective. david: michael jacobson has this 40-year war against salt. what is the latest battle he is fighting? he sued the fda. might we see action? john: sure, the context around this, the fda has been working on these voluntary guidelines

for the industry. a couple of years ago, they said they expected to issue them -- they were expected to do that by the end of 2014. here we are in 2016. obama's term is at its end. and jacobson is saying, listen, we need to get them to act on it. so, his group filed a lawsuit, asking the fda to act on salt limits. so, the regulator has until sometime in february to respond in court. carol: not everybody agrees there is a problem. you talk about the flipside in your story, people saying it is not really an issue. john: one thing is the science on sodium intake is complex. you know, science is not open and dry. there is some evidence that says lowering salt intake beyond a certain level could be harmful. americans are not near that level yet.

but, you know, there are people making arguments saying, you know, that generally we are at a safe level of sodium intake. and when you talk to doctors, public health officials, looking at the recommendations of health authorities, they still say the opposite. that people really should dramatically reduce their salt intake. david: john, thank you very much. up next, how a vietnamese refugee is rethinking food delivery in america. carol: we talk about the details on the profile of the ceo of one company we are talking about -- tri tran. we are back in a moment. ♪

david: welcome to bloomberg "businessweek" on radio and television.

carol: munchery is a startup trying to solve the challenge of mealtime planning. david: the ceo, tri tran, says his amazing journey started thousands of miles away in vietnam. brad stone joins us in the bay, via m.i.t. talk about his life story. brad: sure, first of all, we hear a lot of startup stories here in the valley. particularly now, there are a lot of companies trying to deliver meals. they all kind of blend together. i first heard about the pre-cooked nutritious meals -- you keep them up at home. but what got me was hearing about the founder's story. tri tran, they said you should get to know him. his parents sent him and his brother away, out of vietnam, in the 1980's. he was 11 years old.

as a parent myself, it is sort of mystifying. how could that even be, you know? forced separation? i went and met him, and i got this story. this is post-war vietnam, a lot of deprivation in the 1980's. his brothers and parents are living outside of ho chi minh city. and there is not enough to eat, which of course is ironic considering the juxtaposition of his current business. and his parents really decided that these kids, if they want to have any future, they need to leave vietnam. the whole family tried to escape together. i recount this in the story. they tried a couple of times. they got arrested and thrown in jail. the communist government would not let anyone leave. at one point, they found a smuggler who was pretty good. he looked at their zodiac sign, determined they cannot leave together. it was unlucky, that the signs conflicted. the parents were going to split up. the dad was going to take them. then the grandmother, the mom's mom, said "let me take the

kids." the three of them got on a boat, fleeing to indonesia. they spent six months in a refugee camp there. david: he starts his company because he and his wife do not have time to cook. in silicon valley, i gather there is a lot of interest in something like this. blue apron has a $2 billion valuation. for investors here, ways of getting food to the dinner table in a different way. brad: they do have a story about him being very strapped for time, trying to figure out a way to feed themselves, so the food is high quality. i bring it back to the origin. living in this tightknit vietnamese community, having a kind of longing for, you know, a kind of community experience, good quality food. there were a lot of services around silicon valley where you go to a restaurant every day, pick up a pre-made meal, and bring it home. it was kind of a longing for that old way of eating, not just

picking up fast food on the way home. and so, that is why munchery is so much different than the companies you mentioned. grubhub, spoon rocket, caviar -- there is a long list. they are delivering restaurant meals. those are great, but what they are trying to do -- and there are a couple of others like it -- they own their own kitchen. in the cities where they operate, chicago, new york, seattl,e and l.a., they employ a lot of chefs. they are making chicken, salmon, vegetarian dishes, almost like home-cooked meals. they chill them and deliver them to your house. you heat them up in the microwave for two minutes, or in the oven for 10 minutes. it is different from the other companies.

david: thanks so much, brad, joining us from san francisco. carol: now, let us take a look at the etc. section of the magazine. let's bring in julia, who edited the section. david: how not to get sick, something we've heard about a lot this time of year. i wonder, first of all, is there really a way to prevent it? the office is crowded, can you avoid getting sick in the wintertime? julia: the most important thing to do is get a flu shot. you should do it. there is no reason not to, according to the best experts that we spoke with. carol: whenever i am sick, i think maybe i should call in? are there rules? julia: nothing hard and fast. just listen to your body. if you feel like you are not going to be productive, do not go in. it costs employers a lot of money every year. sometimes, if you're really feeling terrible, the best thing

you can do is not go in. carroll: coffee beans, similar to what we have seen? tell us about this. julia: absolutely. last fall, you saw a lot of big financial places in the craft coffee industry. a couple of favorites were bought up by pete's, itself owned by a larger conglomerate. they have a lot of money. david: i grew up in north carolina with countercultural coffee. really an outsider now, very big, but still an independent coffee roaster and distributor. julia: most of these companies grew up doing wholesale. counterculture is still doing that. they get 90% of revenue from wholesale trade. bluebottle actually announced they would stop doing wholesale entirely. carol: they are trying to stay independent. i did not realize about this third-wave coffee movement. julia: sourcing your beans,

treatment with loving care at the coffee shop, really giving customers information. david: people talk about the best way to use things that you apply to wine, craft beer. julia: there is even a chain coming up in the west coast that was started in northern california that is perpetuating this pour-over brewing method. of course, taking it large-scale trade. carol: my favorite part of the section is where you talk about comfy, slouchy pants. you talk about pants that are appropriate for work. julia: we are starting to see drawstring, more flowing styles out there. you can wear these to the office. they are office-appropriate. david: i'm looking at the photos. a lot of them look like pajamas. what you have done rather massively here is kind of mask that. julia: that is the point, how to

style and wear them. carol: david, i see you may be wearing the drawstring pants. david: i am wearing a tie here. but there are outfits that are inspired by men's neckties. julia: the dot prints very much look like that. carol: they look like preschool pants. everything comes around. carol: and you did it with the alvin ailey dancers. julia: we wanted people who were able to capture these languorous shapes. they did a great job. carol thank you so much. that does it for bloomberg "businessweek" on radio and television. i am carol massar. david: i am david gura. the latest edition, featuring bernie sander,s is live on newsstands. carol: we will see you. ♪

♪ narrator: our world today is wealthier than ever. but not everyone shares in this wealth. today's young business leaders are challenging this. changing the way we think about money -- its power and its purpose. this is a new generation. this is the new philanthropy. ♪