vermont senator is taking a hillary clinton for the nomination and he is making himself heard. >> he took on wall street in a speech on all the respect. >> are we in danger of a two week to fill situation where wall street crashers and the taxpayers have to bail them out? very few people know this. after we build up washington because the banks were too big to fail, three out of the four larger -- significantly bigger and will be billed amount. >> joel stein wrote the cover story. bernie sanders does not want your vote. he joins us from los angeles. this is not your typical presidential candidate or hopeful. what was he like? what was your mission? for businessweek

readers he is kind of the weidmann. and to look deeply at him see how scared people should be. at least businessweek readers. and what he is like in person. interviewed anybody in my life are met anyone, including athletes who are so dedicated to one thing. he only cares about wealth inequality. there's not much else he is really interested in, not much politically -- just politically but in life. i am jewish so he is normal for me. he summer between the parents and my grandparents. a grumpy but funny and likable old jewish hippie. >> politicians spend so much time crafting their story in the future there conveying to the electorate their sense of who they are or how they want cheaper trade. this is a guy who is not very concerned with that at all.

>> he is so annoyed with any question about his personal life. he threw one paragraph of bio into his hour-long speech. he mumbles his way through it. he has a very interesting life story, he's just not interested in it. economic other people interested. haves campaign as they pictures of where he grew up, but he is not interested in talking about that at all. he wants to talk about numbers and issues and numbers. >> you play this out in your story. even people who have known him for a long time, friends of his don't really know who he is. . that is interesting >> i was talking to a senator from the right who likes him. praises in an his interesting, nice way. then i asked him what else is he interested in. what else is he talking about?

he said i have never thought about it but everyone in the senate will talk up to me about football. i have never talked to him about anything else. i've known them for 25 years and i don't even know if he has a wife or grandkids. sanderst been bernie would bother to talk to anyone about. >> he has been in politics for a long time. what is this his moment? why is he enjoying such success right now? what resonates about his message so widely? argues becauset wealth any quality has become such a huge issue and is growing so rapidly that anyone who took up the occupied movement believe would have gotten these kind of crowds in these kind of donors. he thinks elizabeth ward might've done better. i disagree. because bernie sanders looks like someone at and occupy rally, he doesn't care about his

hair, he is crumpled, he so fiery and angry -- i think he becomes the perfect vehicle for all of that anger you see on the left and the right. you see it in donald trump supporters and the tea party. he embodies physically that kind of anger at wall street. >> you put in your story and talk about this one message he is really going after. he is struggling with all the inequality that is out there. that is something that is timely. that's coming up the financial crisis with the american public at large. >> that is when he became a national figure. he is a very -- he is such a big deal. >> did you say he is weird? >> it's a weird political story. he's very weird but here's a guy who started out a socialist anning -- he did not start is

local organizer although he did it in college at the university of chicago. then he comes to vermont and runs for governor and then senate and a governor in then senator as a socialist candidate collecting 4% of the vote. ayor and wins by 10 votes because it's a weird four-way race. it was such a big deal when he became mayor of burlington, vermont which is a less significant city than. it was a national story. in the 1980's they elected a socialist to be mayor. it was a national joke. then he did a pretty good job. then he started doing his thing where he ran as a third-party senate for congress. it only took him two times. and then for 16 years the democrats back to him as he ran for senate. this is not the way a person gets elected in this country. >> let me ask you about this

campaign. it is a mom-and-pop campaign. you look at the headline numbers and he has raised tens of millions of dollars. that is besides the point. looking at how many people have given to that campaign, way more than any other candidate. >> if you remember when he declared he was running, it seemed like no one was going to run against hillary. the socialist in the senate decided to run it seemed so ridiculous. donations gotten more than any candidate, including sitting presidents at this point in the election cycle. he has almost as much money raised if you don't count super pac says hillary. he has a lot more donors that she does. and his crowds are huge. no one, including trump is a tracking that amount of people. in some cases 30,000, 25,000 people. voting did you think the

public should know about him having spent time with him on the campaign trail? >> he is totally authentic and he speaks from his heart. you don't need to know much. he is against wealth inequality. you don't have to do a lot of poking around to see what he's doing and other issues. the answer is no, this is all he cares about. >> joel stein joining us from los angeles. you can read his article in the latest business week. still to come -- >> a disciple of ralph nader taking on the american diet. when bloombergs businessweek returns. ♪

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carroll: welcome back. i am carol massar. salt -- and we definitely love it. david: yes, i certainly do. but a restaurant group sued new york city, calling for chain restaurants to post warnings on food. carol: the national restaurant association said the city overstepped in this week's edition of bloomberg "businessweek." john tozzi joins us in our studio. talk to us about this war on salt, an interesting crusader is involved. john: we wrote about a guy named michael jacobson, the head of a group in washington that is pressing the fda to set limits on how much salt food companies can add into processed food. they have been actually trying to get these sodium levels installed for years now -- 40 years. carol: 40 years? david: he is a disciple of ralph

nader. i know the government has some guidance, but many of us exceed what they recommend. but there is no limit placed on any of these companies that make food. john: that is the issue here. for a long time, health authorities have recommended that people consume less sodium. the target is about 2.3 grams per day, about one tablespoon -- excuse me, teaspoon of salt. now, we all almost universally eat significantly more than that. and it is not because we are adding it at the table. it is generally because it is baked into the food -- the processed food, the restaurant meals that we all eat. the idea is that if you want to lower salt consumption across the board, you have to start at the pie. and get food manufacturers to agree to lower the sodium in their product. carol: i thought that was interesting in your story.

even though we have become more aware of what we are eating, the salt intake has not really changed much. it has gone up. so, what does he want specifically here? john: jacobson and his group have asked the fda to remove salt from ingredients generally recognized as safe. that sort of paved the way for the agency to limit how much you can put into a product. what is more realistic, what the fda has actually talked about for several years, is creating voluntary limits that the food industry would adhere to. so, it would not be mandatory, but it would be saying here are the standards for -- you can put x amount of salt in this product. you can tailor it to the category of food. and then, the sort of baseline

for most, so the entire industry can work off of that. that, over time, the standards could be generally ratcheted down to sort of lower the overall salt intake, without having any one company act first. because they're all afraid to. david: campbell's soup tried to scale back how much salt was in there. consumers did not like it. john: campbell made a lot of headlines about this a few years back, trying to offer healthier options, lowering the sodium content. they reversed course in a lot of ways, responding to the preference. one of the things that happens is that people get kind of accustomed to a high level of salt in their food. it is hard to, you know, back away from that once. health authorities have recommended to sort of slowly try to lower the levels in our food. carol: walmart is moving ahead with trying to desalinate their

products. john: a lot of products -- a lot of companies recognize the issues consumers care about. they know that too much sodium in the diet is harmful. and they want to be seen as responsive. so, walmart and other food retailers, manufacturers have taken steps publicly to offer low-salt options. and sort of have those available to consumers, to lower the sodium in their products. but i think that health authorities have kind of come to the conclusion that it you leave it up to voluntary action, we have been trying that for 40 years, it has not been very effective. david: michael jacobson has this 40-year war against salt. what is the latest battle he is fighting? he sued the fda. might we see action? john: sure, the context around

this, the fda has been working on these voluntary guidelines for the industry. a couple of years ago, they said they expected to issue them -- they were expected to do that by the end of 2014. here we are in 2016. obama's term is at its end. and jacobson is saying, listen, we need to get them to act on it. so, his group filed a lawsuit, asking the fda to act on salt limits. so, the regulator has until sometime in february to respond in court. carol: not everybody agrees there is a problem. you talk about the flipside in your story, people saying it is not really an issue. john: one thing is the science on sodium intake is complex. you know, science is not open and dry. there is some evidence that says lowering salt intake beyond a certain level could be harmful.

americans are not near that level yet. but, you know, there are people making arguments saying, you know, that generally we are at a safe level of sodium intake. and when you talk to doctors, public health officials, looking at the recommendations of health authorities, they still say the opposite. that people really should dramatically reduce their salt intake. david: john, thank you very much. up next, how a vietnamese refugee is rethinking food delivery in america. carol: we talk about the details on the profile of the ceo of one company we are talking about -- tri tran. we are back in a moment. ♪

♪ david: welcome to bloomberg "businessweek" on radio and television. carol: munchery is a startup trying to solve the challenge of mealtime planning. david: the ceo, tri tran, says his amazing journey started thousands of miles away in vietnam. brad stone joins us in the bay, via m.i.t. talk about his life story. brad: sure, first of all, we hear a lot of startup stories here in the valley. particularly now, there are a lot of companies trying to deliver meals. they all kind of blend together. i first heard about the pre-cooked nutritious meals -- you keep them up at home. but what got me was hearing about the founder's story. tri tran, they said you should get to know him. his parents sent him and his brother away, out of vietnam, in

the 1980's. he was 11 years old. as a parent myself, it is sort of mystifying. how could that even be, you know? forced separation? i went and met him, and i got this story. this is post-war vietnam, a lot of deprivation in the 1980's. his brothers and parents are living outside of ho chi minh city. and there is not enough to eat, which of course is ironic considering the juxtaposition of his current business. and his parents really decided that these kids, if they want to have any future, they need to leave vietnam. the whole family tried to escape together. i recount this in the story. they tried a couple of times. they got arrested and thrown in jail. the communist government would not let anyone leave. at one point, they found a smuggler who was pretty good. he looked at their zodiac sign, determined they cannot leave together. it was unlucky, that the signs conflicted. the parents were going to split up.

the dad was going to take them. then the grandmother, the mom's mom, said "let me take the kids." the three of them got on a boat, fleeing to indonesia. they spent six months in a refugee camp there. david: he starts his company because he and his wife do not have time to cook. in silicon valley, i gather there is a lot of interest in something like this. blue apron has a $2 billion valuation. for investors here, ways of getting food to the dinner table in a different way. brad: they do have a story about him being very strapped for time, trying to figure out a way to feed themselves, so the food is high quality. i bring it back to the origin. living in this tightknit vietnamese community, having a kind of longing for, you know, a kind of community experience, good quality food. there were a lot of services around silicon valley where you go to a restaurant every day, pick up a pre-made meal, and bring it home.

it was kind of a longing for that old way of eating, not just picking up fast food on the way home. and so, that is why munchery is so much different than the companies you mentioned. grubhub, spoon rocket, caviar -- there is a long list. they are delivering restaurant meals. those are great, but what they are trying to do -- and there are a couple of others like it -- they own their own kitchen. in the cities where they operate, chicago, new york, seattl,e and l.a., they employ a lot of chefs. seattle and l.a., they employ a lot of chefs. they are making chicken, salmon, vegetarian dishes, almost like home-cooked meals. they chill them and deliver them to your house. you heat them up in the microwave for two minutes, or in

the oven for 10 minutes. it is different from the other companies. david: thanks so much, brad, joining us from san francisco. carol: now, let us take a look at the etc. section of the magazine. let's bring in julia, who edited the section. david: how not to get sick, something we've heard about a lot this time of year. i wonder, first of all, is there really a way to prevent it? the office is crowded, can you avoid getting sick in the wintertime? julia: the most important thing to do is get a flu shot. you should do it. there is no reason not to, according to the best experts that we spoke with. carol: whenever i am sick, i think maybe i should call in? are there rules? julia: nothing hard and fast. just listen to your body. if you feel like you are not going to be productive, do not go in. it costs employers a lot of money every year.

sometimes, if you're really feeling terrible, the best thing you can do is not go in. carroll: coffee beans, similar to what we have seen? tell us about this. julia: absolutely. last fall, you saw a lot of big financial places in the craft coffee industry. a couple of favorites were bought up by pete's, itself owned by a larger conglomerate. they have a lot of money. david: i grew up in north carolina with countercultural coffee. really an outsider now, very big, but still an independent coffee roaster and distributor. julia: most of these companies grew up doing wholesale. counterculture is still doing that. they get 90% of revenue from wholesale trade. bluebottle actually announced they would stop doing wholesale entirely. carol: they are trying to stay independent. i did not realize about this

third-wave coffee movement. julia: sourcing your beans, treatment with loving care at the coffee shop, really giving customers information. david: people talk about the best way to use things that you apply to wine, craft beer. julia: there is even a chain coming up in the west coast that was started in northern california that is perpetuating this pour-over brewing method. of course, taking it large-scale trade. carol: my favorite part of the section is where you talk about comfy, slouchy pants. you talk about pants that are appropriate for work. julia: we are starting to see drawstring, more flowing styles out there. you can wear these to the office. they are office-appropriate. david: i'm looking at the photos. a lot of them look like pajamas. what you have done rather

massively here is kind of mask that. julia: that is the point, how to style and wear them. carol: david, i see you may be wearing the drawstring pants. david: i am wearing a tie here. but there are outfits that are inspired by men's neckties. julia: the dot prints very much look like that. carol: they look like preschool pants. everything comes around. carol: and you did it with the alvin ailey dancers. julia: we wanted people who were able to capture these languorous shapes. they did a great job. carol thank you so much. that does it for bloomberg "businessweek" on radio and television. i am carol massar. david: i am david gura. the latest edition, featuring bernie sander,s is live on newsstands.

carol: we will see you. ♪

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